Yamaha PSR3000 / PSR1500 Questions

PSR3000/PSR1500 QUESTIONS of which I'm hoping George Kaye, Steve Deming, or anyone else here might be able to provide answers to:

1) How much will these keyboards weigh? More, less, or about the same as the PSR2100?

2) How many onboard foot pedal jacks will these keyboards include? I'm hoping three (like on the Tyros), because I need to assign the first to sustain, second to vocalizer on/off, and third to 'self fill'. I only hope that 'self fill' activation via foot pedal can be continously repeating as well.

3) USB Support:

Does this include USB 2.0?

Assuming that the PSR3000/PSR1500 will include USB connectivity, will you be able to utilize the Yamaha 'Voice Editing' software program to edit onboard sounds (voices), perform flash ROM OS updates, as well as backup & transfer files back and forth between the PSR3000/PSR1500 & your PC?

4) Smart Media Card:

Can the PSR3000/PSR1500 'Music Finder' access styles stored in the Smart Media Card?

Can Registration Bank files (stored either in user memory or in the Smart Media Card)
access & load associated files (styles, voice, multipad) located on the Smart Media Card?

Thanks in advance to all for any information.

Scott

These are excellent questions. I am also very interested in knowing the answers to these?

I'd also like to know if there are any other new features/buttons that aren't on the current Yamaha arrangers.

Beakybird

Is there a suggest retail price for both model please.

I suspect both 1500 & 3000 will be at our Keyboard Festival in May. We have in the past had pre-production models of the PSR2000 & Tyros demonstrated 6 months before they arrived in the UK shops.

Graham UK

I wonder if Yamaha might pull a surprise at Winter NAMM (2 weeks from NOW) and give attendees a sneak preview of the upcoming PSR3000/PSR1500. I hope so. - Scott

1-will the psr3k have a transpose button with a "ONE STEP move -/+ instead of TWO steps like now in the 2k? looks like the same in the pic....same question for TEMPO?

2-how much storage is on the smart card? will you need a special card reader on your P/C?

3-keyfeel?, weight?, new speakers?

4-will you be able to edit/replace/etc all factory styles like on a PA80?

5- is there a new vocalizer or same as 2k/tyros etc?

6- any lag time between accessing info from the smart card?

7- can styles be played right from the smart card also?

8- are there AUX OUTPUTS on back?

9- is there a seperate MIC Volume control like on the 9k/tyros...or is it on the back like the 2k?

10-can you see the screen outdors?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-02-2004).]

I was going to ask some things too, but Donny asked everything ( and more ) that makes a difference to me. Question 3 is a must for me. Everything stops right there if the key feel isn't better, and it doesn't have good speakers and weight. Questions 2, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 are also very important to me, and I'd consider 4 ( ability to alter internal styles ) a huge bonus, but am not expecting it.

Otherwise, I have to decide whether to get a Tyros , a PA1x, or go in a different direction altogether. I like what I hear from the PA1x demo wise, but then again a lot of it does sound similar to the PA80, which I already have and like very much, so the PA1x isn't high on the list right now. Most of our live work consists of rock and blues, and overall I prefer the Korg stuff here, but I do miss a few of the Yamaha styles and sounds.

Other than that, I guess I'd like to give the SD1 a good workout.

AJ

Will it be equiped with a decent sampler
like 9000 and pa1x?

I doubt that this entry level will include a sampler, and for my specs .... I won't miss it. I leave the sampling to the big boys. Just give me the basics and let me make the music come alive.

Donny, here are a few of my observations and possible answers to some of your questions:


Donny, if I read you correctly, I assume you're talking about (on the PSR2000) having to hit the -/+ button 'twice' initially, to transpose just one 1/2 step, right? I believe this was merely a PSR2000 specific bug, because on the Tyros, you only need to press the transpose button once. I'd presume that the PSR3000/PSR1500 should work the same as the Tyros in this regard.


Smart Media cards currently come in: 32, 64, and 128mb storage capacities.To read the card from your PC you'll need a smart media card reader. I myself have a 'Dazzle 6-in 1 reader' which can read several memory card formats including: smart media, compact flash, and memory stick.


I suspect any weight differences between the PSR2000 & 3000 will be directly related to whatever (if any) PSR3000 improved key build (solid) and key feel, and improved sound (speakers larger & heavier (bigger magnet). I too am anxious to find out the details.


Unless Yamaha has suddenly decided to take a radical departure, I really doubt this is going to happen, especially on their budget line PSR3000 or PSR1500 models.


Looking at the supplied pictures, and seeing there is NO MIC volume control on top, I assume that the PSR3000/PSR1500 sports the same Mic trim only on the back of the unit, the same as the PSR2000 has.

Considering the fact that I just recently (last week) sold my PSR2000, I'm now more than ever excited about the prospect of purchasing a PSR3000 as a secondary portable arranger with built in speakers to my Tyros, especially because I'm hoping that Tyros & PSR3000 styles will be freely interchangeable, though I predict that the PSR3000 & PSR1500 won't hit the US shores till at least the end of the year (Nov/Dec 2004. In the meantime, I'm hoping someone can provide answers to Donny's other questions, and well as the original ones I posed at the TOP of this topic thread.

Scott

I agree. I sample now and then, but I have dedicated equipment for it, and occasionally, I add some samples to the Motif ES soundset as well.

I have my doubts that many arranger players would use a sampling feature if offered or would appreciate the added cost of having it as a feature on a PSR. I just want something that plays well in a live situation and feels like something when I play it. At one time I did think it would be a good feature to have on an arranger, but that has changed. I really have no need for a sampler on my arranger, and have never really used the function on the PA80. If anything, I'd rather have expansion slots, ala the 9000 pro, but even that isn't a really important feature for me.

I don't use arrangers all that much for composing any more, except that I do use the PA80 for it's soundset at times. I've really tried to move away from anything that's completely loop based, except for some synth parts that work well that way. Today, I look at any future arranger purchase probably in a similar way to most of the others who will use one in a live situation.


AJ

Similar question about the Octave Switch buttons. The Motif ES got it right by the fact that when you press the octave switch + or - there's a little light on the button itself that comes on. If your at +1 Octave the 'right' button comes on and if your at -1, etc. the 'left' button comes on. When your at normal Octave the light goes out. The Motif ES also has a "2" Octave range + or - up/down plus when you press the Octave buttons there is no 'silly' little screen that comes up in the Display telling you your at + or - an Octave like there is on the Tyros and PSR 2000/2100 etc. On the Tyros/PSR 2000/2100, etc., the screen is there "bugging" you constantly until you press the Exit or Enter or some other button. IF you do that when your playing it can disrupt your concentration and rhythm and consequently your chops by hitting clams unexpectedly. Until Yamaha decides to go the Motif ES route for its new Arrangers regarding the Octave buttons, etc., that 'silly' little screen will probably stay by Yamaha because if your into sub-menus and away from the Main Screen that silly little screen is the ONLY way to tell if your "+" or "-" an Octave. Another beef I have is when your in the Mixing Console and you want to know the Song 'position', ie., Measure/Bar point the screen that pops up hides the Voice/Instrument on Track 4 and 5 and consequently Track 12 and 13. These problems are long-standing and Yamaha should make an effort to correct them IMO.

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 01-03-2004).]

I hope someone from Yamaha is reading this thread......but that doesnt mean they'll listen or impliment any of these
"makes sense" suggestions in future offerings now does it? Seems like Yamaha is slowly taking peoples money in 1 year $1200-$1500 increments with these small PSR upgrades 2k, 21, 3k etc etc ......but from a busines standpoint I can see that it doesn't make sense to put all these things people want in one new KB...vs..minor upgrades making owners sell or buy new KBs time after time which really sux IMO.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-03-2004).]

The "one touch" function of certain buttons must be related to memory because the entire low line of psr gear seems to act that way. Maybe it has to do with the fact that so many buttons become editable with the data wheel after they are selected.
For example ..... it would be a disaster if the last thing you touched was the tempo control and wanted to change key later on. If the button "last pushed" was still active....an intentional tempo change would result in a disasterous key change.
Who knows......
All I know is that this 2100 is making me nuts. Key feel, key size and many other things. I applaude you guys with simple needs. My taste just needs a better constructed keyboard with all the bells and whistles that the psr line packs into the smaller units.
It's just a question of time before SOMEONE actually makes what I need. sigh .......

I really want off of the merry go round for now. I find that I get caught up in lusting for the next best thing, and sometimes, in the case of the Motif ES, for me it's worthwhile, but at other times not.

If and when Yamaha or anyuone else gives me something that I really like to play live, and it is a big improvement ( for me ) then I'll bite, but if not, I'll just use the ol' clunker for the occasioanl live work I do ( PA80 ), and if I get serious enough that I am going to play out a lot, a sufficient backup for it ( maybe even a PA60.. or if it's really good, a speaker PA1x when it comes out ).

If Yamaha is really trying to make a new model with the 3000, then I want to see a marked step up in some of the features that Donny and a few others mentioned before I'm tempted to bite again. Instead, based on recent hsitory, I tend to suspect that it works as Donny describes, with minor steps and improvements that are merely designed to grab another 1200- 1500 dollars or so from those of us who play arrangers.


AJ

The PSR3000 and new PSR1500 will definately be shown at the NAMM show .
Yamaha is also replacing the DGX300 and 500 . If you take a look at the technology on the PSR1K , this screen and sounds will be in the new product line DGX550 + DGX350. I received the Yamaha NAMM info a few weeks ago , I will see if I can answer any of Scott's other questions .

I will not be attending NAMM, I'll miss my west coast friends .

Dan O'

[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 01-03-2004).]

This is terrific news as it will allow attendees to see first hand just what the PSR3000 will include and hopefully provide the answers to our questions on this thread as well. I trust that George Kaye (and other SZ member attendees) will spend 'extra time' at NAMM checking out the PSR3000, and that he'll be able to answer the numerous questions posed here about what looks to me like a promising followup to the PSR2000/2100.


Because of scheduling conflicts, I too won't be able to make it to NAMM this year.
I too will miss meeting up with SZ friends there. Dan perhaps we can meet up at NAM again in 2005, or better yet, if we can get some kind of Synthzone event organized we can catch up with each other then.

Scott

I'm not going either because I'm afraid of earthquakes.
DonM

If it wasn't for earthquakes , we'd never have "shake,rattle,and roll ".

Lets add on......

11- NO WALL WARTS Please!!!!!

Happy New Year guys,

Unlike you, I can not speculate(guess)about what might be on the PSR1500/3000. There are certain things I would assume, but I won't share those with you at this time. I've seen the same pictures that you guys have, and I have the same specs that George and Dan have. I have not seen the prototypes yet. Here's what I know:

PSR3000
320x240 color LCD - Mega-Voice Technology - Vocal Harmony and Video Out - Connects directly to the internet (Broadband 10 base-T) using optional USB to ethernet adapter - USB "To Device": connect to storage devices like HDD and Thumb drives - USB MIDI: 32 channel playback from PC - Smart Media Slot - 128 notes of Polyphony - Organ Flute Voices using Modeling technology - 3 intros, 3 endings with dedicated buttons - 4 Variations and 4 Fills per Style - Pitch bend and Mod Wheel = 892 voices - Flash ROM user memory for storing data (2 Mb)- Music Finder - Multi Pads - 240 Styles + User - 16 Track Sequencer - Direct Access Button - 960 "One Touch" settings - Help Wizard in six languages - Saparate L/R audio output jacks - Foot Switch and Foot Volume jacks - Headphone jack - 2-way Stereo speaker system (12 Watts/ch) - PA300 power adapter included)

PSR1500
320x240 LCD - Connects directly to the internet (Broadband 10 base-T) using optional USB to ethernet adapter - USB "To Device": connect to storage devices like HDD and Thumb drives - USB MIDI: 32 channel playback from PC - Smart Media Slot - 96 notes of Polyphony - Organ Flute Voices using Modeling technology - 3 intros, 3 endings with dedicated buttons - 4 Variations and 4 Fills per Style - Pitch bend and Mod Wheel = 793 voices - Flash ROM user memory for storing data (2 Mb)- Music Finder - Multi Pads - 210 Styles + User - 16 Track Sequencer - Direct Access Button - 840 "One Touch" settings - Help Wizard in six languages - Separate L/R audio output jacks - Foot Switch and Foot Volume jacks - Headphone jack - 2-way Stereo speaker system (12 Watts/ch) - PA300 power adapter included)

I know that only addresses a portion of what you asked, but I will let you know more when I know more.

Regards,


------------------
Steve Deming
Assistant Manager
Customer Support Dept.
Pro Audio & Combo Division
Yamaha Corporation of America
YCASupport@yamaha.com
714.522.9000

Steve Deming said, "Organ Flute Voices using Modeling technology". Hmmmm. The Clavi Nord uses modeling technology and the sound on it is amazing according to reviewers. The Fender Rhodes sound on the Clavi Nord is supposed to be the best as well.
Starkeeper

Wow nice specs. Geez it seems that the PSR-1500 is damn close to the PSR-2000 minus the harmonizer. There seems to be a pretty huge jump between the models now. A lot of major features have been added.. Especially 96 note poly to the lower model, organ flutes, smart media, internet connection. Man all that is one hell of a leap from the PSR-1100 to the 1500......

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-05-2004).]

So, the only differences will be:

PSR3000:
Mega-Voice Technology
Vocal Harmony and Video Out
color screen
30 styles more
100 OTS more
100 voices more
32 notes polyphony more

What about audio in?



[This message has been edited by Bluebird (edited 01-06-2004).]

SO THE KEYBED IS THE SAME AS HE 2K,21K?

NO AUX OUTPUTS?

It seems PSR3000 keys will be the same of all PSRs, that is, smaller than standard piano or other manufacturers ones (Roland, Korg, etc.), and with a very bad key feel.
So, "normal" keys lovers should emigrate to others brands, or wait more time.
It is a pity.

[This message has been edited by Bluebird (edited 01-06-2004).]

but the keyfeel question is WHY WHY WHY wont they listen to the masses?

He didn't come out and say it, but gathering from the pictures and what Steve didn't say... looks a lot like we're headed for the same old lousy key feel.

Maybe I'm wrong, but for the most part I'm done right now.. I'm not even interested in the 3000 any more. If at some point I find a good deal on a non PSR arranger that I can use for a backup, I'm going that route instead. otherwise I'll live with what I have, and if my PA80 breaks down and I have to entertain as a solo player and maybe use a midi file or two to balance it, so be it. I can handle it. The Motif ES comes along with me anyway. No big deal.

Like everyone else, I want to entertain and be successful at it. I don't overdo it with the soloing, but when I do solo, I want to showcase my abilities and I want a good tool that I feel comfortable playing an intense solo on. The PSR keybed just isn't it. I played a $300 USd Casio WK clone in Radio Shack that had more life in it's key response.

AJ

Maybe Steve can enlighten us on why Yamaha is so lax in making this "KEYBED" issue a top priority certain models.

My perception ( and of course.. that's what it is, a perception ), is that Yamaha doesn't market the PSR's toward professionals who make a living at playing music, and that we are a scant few in their overall marketing scheme. Perhaps the majority of the users, in their mindset, are the home players looking to have something that's a step up from the WK series and low end PSR boards.

My perception may very well be completely inaccurate, but I've drawn it based upon my experiences with Yamaha along conversations with others including dealers who sell their products and deal with Yamaha reps.

AJ

AJ. I concur with your thoughts. I mean just 'how many' keyboard performers have any of you seen on TV, or live in concert on stage (other than us here, of course ) who are actually using a Yamaha PSR2000/2100 in their act. In fact, how many 'arranger keyboards' in general has anyone here seen used when attending a paid stage concert (either solo or group) show? We professsional arranger keyboard performers here are definitely a rare breed here. Home amateur hobbyists have been the arranger keyboard's primary marketing audience for years. It's only in the last few years that arranger manufacterers have finally begun to respond to the needs of the professional keyboard player. I predict that arrangers will be seen more often on stage in the years to come, and even become respected by fellow so called legit keyboard players as well. Times change, and people's taste do as well. I think it's important that we all continue to 'push' for arranger features required of the professional working keyboard player. - Scott

Its a sad state of affairs concerning arranger KB's.....

Scott...If your not a pro playing solo ..why would you use a Arr Kb if your playing with a band? There are so many more quality non Arr Kb's out there to choose from...?

Elton John used a Yamaha Clavinova at his show here. All the backing was midi and/or MP3. Maybe a small sign of things to come?
DonM

Yamaha can get away with poor quality key feel and smaller keys IMO because other keyboard mfgs cannot match the voices and features. In the lower end market, I suspect that Yamaha just got beat by Casio. (Hey Squeak) a reviewer on Harmony Central said the Acc Piano on the Casio beats the PSR550!!! Another said the piano voice is better then the Yamaha P60. I suspect the organs are better than the PSR2100. Did Yamaha have advance knowledge of this? All of a sudden the PSR3000 has organ modeling!!
Casio can do this with a 76 note, good key feel, and full size keys. Yamaha will have to do something now. To bad Casio isn't willing to take on the PSR2100. Hoping to try out a Casio WK3500 on Thursday. Will I be selling my PSR550?
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 01-06-2004).]

Yamaha,
Read what a reviewer said, "I hate to compare with the Yamaha, which everyone is doing. I will just say this. I had a Yamaha dgx300, which I thought had an outstanding piano. When I heard the wk-3000 at Sam's, I bought it on sight (rare for me), and put the yamaha on e-bay. There, got it out of my system."
Starkeeper

Donny, if you re-read my post, I refered to it as a 'group', not a band. There are a number of 'small' group combo situations where the arranger keyboard is idea. I occasionally (when budget permits) bring on a female vocalist and/or solo horn/guitar player, or even a bass player, on arranger gigs. This brings added visual appeal as well as providing a kind of live musician interaction spark that's just not possibly when playing solo on the arranger alone. I appreciate the arranger for providing this kind of performance flex-bility. - Scott

I cant agree I have never seen or heard a good combo playing other instruments trying to follow an aranger KB accmp.....its man agains machine and most times it don't mix too well to my ear.... versus a trio, quartet etc etc....all playing solo instruments IMO. A solo singer is the exception.

Donny: I guess you just haven't heard or seen me perform (on the Arr KB) with my acoustic instrumentalist musicians yet. I only hire competant pro musicians and they 'never' have any problems keeping in time with the arr accomp & interacting with my live arranger keyboard playing & singing.



Of course a full band of all live 'professionally competant' musicians is what I'm sure we'd 'all' prefer, but the 'next best' thing imo is to bring on 1 or 2 live acoustic instrumentalists and/or female vocalist, in addition to the arranger keyboard. A solo only arranger keyboard performance (as impressive as it might be) just can't match the added 'spontaneous magic' that happens when additional 'competant' live musicians can (if possible) be brought in as well. - Scott

I can’t agree more.
An arranger gives one some much versatility it is surprising to me why I have experience belittling of arranger keyboards when I go to some music stores.
An arranger gives one the ability to perform solo, perform with a live bass, drums or other instruments. If you have a live bass, you can mute the bass on the keyboard. This gives more energy to the performance. The same thing can be said for drums. You can have a live drummer while the arranger plays the other parts and a percussion track. Also on an arranger you can make your own styles if you want to fit your playing style or the small group needs.
An arranger with one or two more instruments would and does sound good provided it is done properly.

Scott.....believe me after 35 years on stage I have just about seen it all....
including very bad Arranger Kb w/other player combo acts...but I respect your opinion and thoughts on the subject.

Jam On

After playing my PSR2000 for a year... I don't think I have the strength to play the kind of keyboard you folks like,.. Real key feel and all… Remember in the old days how your PC keyboard was sturdy and well manufactured as the years pass the PC keyboards become cheesier. I don't think I'd have the strength to use a typewriter..
DJ

Will the mega voices be playable?
Starkeeper

Does PSR3000 have the same sequencer as PSR2000/2100/9000/Tyros?

Please see: http://www.arrangerworkstation.com

It's a new site for Yamaha Arranger Workstation users, hope you guys will like it!!

[This message has been edited by awdotcom (edited 01-08-2004).]