Tyros2 HD recording (Future OS Upgrade?)

As I have mentioned in other threads, I was soooooo very excited to see what the new Tyros2 was going to have to offer, and although not everyone saw the inclussion of a HD recorder as a plus I personal loved the idea.

I really think that we are going to see a lot more boards coming out with this feature, with a lot of companies coming out with multiple leves of many of their boards. Some with HD recorder and others without.

But my BIG disappointment is that Yamaha seems to have disappointed both camps with the HD system that can be found with in the new Tyros2.

Many will see the addition of the HD system as a complete waiste while other that were looking forward to it would never accept a HD recording system with out at least an 8 track minimum.

Does anybody know, or care to guess, as to whether the Tyros2 is limited to this PHYSICALLY or will it simply be a matter of Yamaha developing an OS upgrade that will allow this great board the ability to record 8 tracks?

I would think that this is a simple matter of the OS, but please correct me if I am wrong.

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DJ
AcousticTones Recording Studios

I would settle for a 2-track recording. 8 track would be nice, but 2 tracks are enough to create a quick demo to put up on the web or to give a copy to the dancers to practice with. I would suggest that MP3 or WMA encoding should be supported though, to compress the files.

With 8-track recording you have to be concerned about the amounts of audio data stored on the HD. Even if it is large enough, how easy is it to move it to another media? Over USB 1.1 moving a gigabyte of audio data would take over 15 minutes - impractical, and yet with 8 tracks of recording this would translate into less than 2 hrs of recording at 96 KHz at 24 bits. If someone really needs to do 8 track recording, they are better of using a PC, where they can also master their tracks, and burn them onto the CD. I certainly do not want to carry around the extra weight of the CD drive in my instrument.

Besides, why settle for the 8 tracks? With an arranger keyboard you need a lot more than that: 8 stereo accompaniment parts, 4 stereo realtime parts, lead vocal, stereo harmonies (preferrably output individually) - by my calculation 33 tracks right there.

I just don't think that a full-fledged studio-level recording is a feasible built-in option for a keyboard.

Regards,
Alex

Your POV regarding Tyros2's new two-track audio recording feature depends on whether you consider the glass half empty or half full. Of course I'd prefer 4, 8, or even 16 track audio, but considering Tyros1 has no audio recording capability whatsoever, having the ability to make an audio recording of a live arranger keyboard performance (of both midi tracks & vocals) is terrific.

IMO, the arranger keyboard is primarily designed for 'one-man band' style performing musicians, and to studio musicians needing a keyboard to create jingles, commercials, and demos very quickly on the fly.

For multi-track production work, it makes more sense to utilize a dedicated professional sequencer like Cakewalk Sonar, Cubase, or Logic Audio. No hardware sequencer can match their power & features. In addition, I've always found workstation type hardware sequencers much more difficult (frustrating) to operate, requiring one to press multitudes of buttons just to reach the sub-menu required for specific functions.

I have to concur with Alex. 2 tracks is fine (to me) for quick live onboard recording convenience.

Scott

Does everyone realize T2 has two stereo (!) track recording ? (technically 4-tracks)

Personally I think it's a waste of a potentially great feature. The Alesis Fusion synth has an 8 track hard disk recorder built in, and it sells for only $1,699.00 That's on top of a 32 track sequencer as well.

I personally have always felt that top end arrangers are "overpriced". Granted some have vocalizers, but as many have complained in the past, these internal vocalizers have had their share of problems and limitations.

To add a hard disk recorder and only allow (2) tracks when other companies are releasing boards that are just as nice with hard disk recording for 8 tracks, and selling them for less I think speaks for itself.

Seriously though, what makes an arranger keyboard worth over $3,000???? Do the styles or vocalizer do this? Because the only thing I see on upper end arrangers that sets them aside from synths now is preset styles, and vocalizers. Does that justify such a huge price difference.

Yammie could really polish this new T2 off by increasing the number of audio tracks.

(these are just my opinions so if anyone gets upset...., what can I say).

Squeak

Squeak,
I think we all respect your views, but it seems you want an 'all in one studio' built into an arranger keyboard ?

Please realize 90% of arranger owners will never use the multitrack feature in these machines. Most of them are home users that play for fun at home (!).
For example : I myself never used the 'digital-recorder' (= midi-sequencer) on any of my arrangers.

I consider the harddisk-recorder to be a 'nice to have' and not as a 'must have' .... remember we talk about an arranger aren't we ?

In fact, features as MP3-player, midifile-player, vocalizers have nothing to do with an arranger... but 'nice to haves' IMHO.

I can understand Yamaha's policy to build what the majority of the customers want/need.

Perhaps we should start a poll with the following questions :

Do you use the midi-sequencer ? (never/seldom/often/always)

Would you use an 8-track recorder when available ? (never/seldom/often/always)

Can you 'live' with only 5 octaves ?
(no/yes)

Would you pay 200 bucks more for an arranger when an 8-track was in it? (yes/no)

Interesting figures I recnetly heard :
The US and Canada represent only 10% of the total sales of arrangers worldwide

Roel,
I don't think that it's that I want the all in one studio built into an arranger. It's just that when it comes to arranger keyboards Yamaha often seems to "tease" the buyer a bit. Pretty much luring you in for the next upgrade. A person shouldn't have to upgrade their arranger every time Yammie releases one. These puppies aren't by any means cheap.

That's a good idea on the "questions" regarding who would use what feature. I think that would be great if Yammie and others did this.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-23-2005).]

Isn't EVERY commercial company doing the same as Yamaha does ? (the teasing)
(Korg, Ketron, Solton, Wersi, Roland, GEM... all of them)

In every industry this makes the money where they live on. (computers, tv's, audio equipment, music, cars, cell-phones, internetting .... etc.)

About the questions : I'm sure Yamaha did ask the questions before they started developing with the following results :
No 8 track needed
No FDD needed
No CD-player/burner needed.
No 76 keys needed

Yes the best sounds of all
Yes superarticulation system (revolution!)
Yes better keys
Yes superb & many styles
Yes keep using the easiest OS there is
Yes as glitchfree as possible at release
Yes focus on arranger functions

As the dutch Yamaha rep stated : "The Tyros is designed for HOME users. It's great this many pro's love this machine and want it"
and some of them keep complaining about missing :
XLR with phantonm,
real multi (8 or 16) track recorder,
76 hammeraction keys,
built-in speakers,
touch screen,
TC Helicon Voiceworks with pitch correction,
display that's readable in the full bright sun,
metal housing,
.....

Let's be real, it is impossible to please everyone

[This message has been edited by Roel (edited 09-24-2005).]

That is very good (for a keyboard-based recorder) - you can bounce the tracks and do multiple takes. This is more of a recorder than I have used so far...

Thanks for pointing this out, Roel. Now, if we could squeeze another 15 keys in.... that would take a MAJOR software update

I wonder if the two tracks you can do on the T II are different takes or you have to do it all in one take.

I'm not sure just what the problem is here. You use the built in 16 track sequencer to make/polish your song and then record it to the hard drive, just like you would if you were using a computer sequencer and making a finished stereo song. It would be a LOT more useful if Yamaha would include piano roll editing in the built in sequencer instead of just event list editing. The display is certainly big enough to do that.

Tom

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Bigger is not always better

TomCat wrote: I'm not sure just what the problem is here. You use the built in 16 track sequencer to make/polish your song and then record it to the hard drive, just like you would if you were using a computer sequencer and making a finished stereo song.

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This has been addressed in a number of other threads, but to make sure that it has been covered here as well...here ya go:

The reason why a number of us don't agree with you comment above is because your comment assumes that most of what we would be recording is keyboard related or instruments and parts that we would comp or play via the keys. BUT many of us play multiple instruments such as guiter, bass, any selective horns, specific percussion, and many other instruments. The HD recorder wouldn't be used by many of us to record anything that we do via the keyboard. That could always be tracked via the sequencer. The additional audio tracks would be to allow us to truly be the one man bad that a lot of us have tried to be by adding additional vocal parts (not just simple harmonies, adding multiple guitar parts 1-2 rhythm parts and perhaps one lead, etc, etc, etc.

So seeing Yamaha add this feature but stop at 2-4 tracks simply doesn't make sense to most of us.

I hope that help explaine what this is really about for some of us.

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DJ
AcousticTones Recording Studios