Best 76 Key

Posted by: jonesyboy

Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 02:29 AM

Hi all,
I am going to part ex my T2 and get a 76 note board to go with my E80 which after esarly reservations has really grown on me!
As I have the E80 I don't want the G70 as many of the sounds are the same - so what is the next best option for me - SD1+, PA1Xpro, etc ..
Thanks in advance for any advice,
Mark
Posted by: to the genesys

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 03:52 AM

Given you already have the E80, the Korg PA1Xpro, would be a good 76 key board to look at.

I think it would give you an even better sound choice than the Ketron.

IMO, the Ketron sometimes has an over all sound like the Roland.

Also, don't overlook the mediastation 76.
Posted by: zuki

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 03:55 AM

Mark -

Nice to hear you're happy with the E-80. We haven't seen this series in the US yet.

I too like the 76 keys on my VA76.

Don't know what to say regarding a 2nd board, for I've never owned the ones your considering, but someone will offer their opinion.

Regards,
zuki
Posted by: jonesyboy

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 04:26 AM

Just been looking at the mediastation 76, looks and sounds fantastic but not available in the UK?
Thanks
Mark
Quote:
Originally posted by to the genesys:
Given you already have the E80, the Korg PA1Xpro, would be a good 76 key board to look at.

I think it would give you an even better sound choice than the Ketron.

IMO, the Ketron sometimes has an over all sound like the Roland.

Also, don't overlook the mediastation 76.
Posted by: abacus

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 04:50 AM

Donít forget to add the Wersi Ikarus to your list.
Also consider a controller keyboard and an expander module, Ketrons SD 2 being very reasonably priced, (And contains some cracking sounds) or if you donít mind lots of cables, a controller keyboard and a laptop with whatever music software/hardware you require.
For Wersi and what can be added see my post in http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/014337.html
The UK contact is Harmony Music of Boston http://www.harmony-music.co.uk/organs.htm
Make sure you take your time and study the pros and cons of all the various choices before you commit.
Enjoy whatever you play

Bill
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 05:42 AM

wow another T2 abandonment?

I suggest not to rush into a purchase at this time of year when just around the corner is the Namm show in January......dont want to kick yourself for not waiting......
Posted by: jonesyboy

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 05:47 AM

Don't get me wrong -I love the T2 but having worked the Roland e80 live I just prefer what it offers - each to their own - and initially I had great reservations about the roland and in particular the brass sounds - I bought the brass expansion board and now it feels completely complete, so rather than have 2 kb's doing basically the same I am going to trade one in for a 76 key - but which one?
Thanks for everybodys replies so far,
Mark
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
wow another T2 abandonment?

I suggest not to rush into a purchase at this time of year when just around the corner is the Namm show in January......dont want to kick yourself for not waiting......




[This message has been edited by jonesyboy (edited 10-26-2006).]
Posted by: George V

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 06:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
wow another T2 abandonment?

I suggest not to rush into a purchase at this time of year when just around the corner is the Namm show in January......dont want to kick yourself for not waiting......

So, Donny, you're expecting a new high class 76 note from Yamaha?

Best regards,
George
Posted by: GlennT

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 06:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
I suggest not to rush into a purchase at this time of year when just around the corner is the Namm show in January


Yea, but there's ALWAYS another Namm show around the corner... and there's ALWAYS another better AK around the corner. What's out there now is pretty darn good.

Glenn
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 06:46 AM

technology is a bitch eh?
Posted by: Diki

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 08:59 AM

Why not get a (gasp! shock, horror!) a workstation to go with the E80? Plenty of good 76 key choices there, unlike arrangers........

Perhaps a Motif-ES would give you a different set of sounds, and there are a few things you can do with the ES's arpeggiator that you can't do on an arranger. Or possibly a Triton Extreme 76..... possibly the better choice if you want to sample much.

If another set of choices of styles was what you were looking for, though, I think you may have made a mistake trading your T2 unless you have managed to convert any of your T2 faves to the Roland. (Contact me if you have )
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 09:12 AM

Is it just me..you guys don't see the lack of quality in the so called professional arrangers by Yamaha..The last Yamaha[maybe only one]arranger was the 9000 Pro..It suffered in sales..why, because of all the plastic models made available with in the same company..Any way you want to look at it the TYROS2 on down are not made as well as the "Pro" models of the other manufacturers.

Ketron has the SD1..Korg the PAxPro, and Roland the G70..BTW I don't think it is a coincidence they are all 76 keys.[hint]..
Posted by: BlkNotes

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 01:49 PM

Dear Joneysboy;

Would you compare and contrast the Tyros 2 and E-80 please. What are the pros and cons of the E-80. I am familiar with the T2. Is the E-80 in fact a different Keyboard then the G-70? The E-80 has not been released into North America yet. Thanks

Regards;
BN
Posted by: honesty

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 02:29 PM

Fran,
IMO. Wha matter to me is the functionality and quality of sounds/styles. In my experience, Ymaha durability and quality of samples are unsurpassed. I tried the Rolad and kept it for only three days. Although the frame and cabinet are made well not cheap material, it did not matter to me.

John-Paul
Posted by: DonM

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 02:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
Is it just me..you guys don't see the lack of quality in the so called professional arrangers by Yamaha..The last Yamaha[maybe only one]arranger was the 9000 Pro..It suffered in sales..why, because of all the plastic models made available with in the same company..Any way you want to look at it the TYROS2 on down are not made as well as the "Pro" models of the other manufacturers.

Ketron has the SD1..Korg the PAxPro, and Roland the G70..BTW I don't think it is a coincidence they are all 76 keys.[hint]..


I have the G70 that DNJ had. It is already missing a knob, two of the organ slider knobs are loose and easily fall off, and the input selection switch on the back has broken off. I know Donny can be a little rough, but this to me is NOT an indicator of high quality.
My only other experience with Roland was with the old G80 and I had similar problems with it, plus the joystick spring broke when it was two weeks old.
Just because a kb weighs too much doesn't make it better!
DonM
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 04:12 PM

Let's see Don..you are using the G70, that has been shipped 3 times..has been on display in the store for 3 months, and under Donny's hands..It has a lost knob, a couple loose slider knobs and a broken off impedance slider control on the back[this item is made like a Yamaha button]..

Who knows , it may be fairing well during it's travels..

BTW Don that was a G800 you had..
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/26/06 04:20 PM

Before you guys misinterpret what I am trying to say..Even the EXR series [Roland] and Probably the E 50/60 are also not Pro quality construction..but they are not touted as a Professional instrument...My point call them what they are..."a home player instrument"...If Yamaha intended the PSR and Tyros to be a professional quality instrument..it would resemble a Motif..
Posted by: Diki

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/27/06 09:41 AM

If Yamaha did not intend the T2 to be a 'professional' instrument, they would not try to charge $4k for it. For that money, you should get a professional build quality, something that Yamaha have no problem finding for their MUCH less expensive Motif line. Face it, guys, you've been had.......

Roland, Korg, Ketron, Wersi, nobody else expects you to put up with an inferior build quality on their top of the line arrangers.......

As to Donny's used G70, all I can say is GET A CASE.... My G70 has been gigged extensively for over a year, up to 10 gigs a week, and looks like it came out of the box. No amount of build quality will help you from breaking knobs and sliders if you don't transport it safely.

No wonder dnj goes through so many arrangers - he has to keep replacing the ones he's broken?
Posted by: DonM

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/27/06 01:21 PM

O.K. You win.
Nothing is as bad as Yamaha and nothing is as good as Roland.
No matter what. Build quality, sounds, styles, songs, key feel, price, vocals, harmonizer, available peer support, on-line forums.
Who needs multipads anyway? Who needs a break/fill button? I don't REALLY mind having to remember which two buttons to press for the ending I want. And I don't REALLY mind lifting 50 pounds every night. I don't REALLY need lyrics function for use with syles. I have a laptop. And a pretty good memory.
I don't REALLY need a hard-disk recorder built-in. I can use the computer or extra hardware. I don't REALLY need a really large adjustable screen, I can wear glasses.
I don't REALLY mind the one-touch settings resetting the keyboard mode to "beginner" every time I touch one.
I don't really need any of this, but some of them are nice to have anyway.

Yamahas are mostly plastic, but I've never had one leave me stranded in 20 years, so I no longer even keep a backup. Ketron never went out, but I was always afraid it would.
The G70 has locked up and had to be rebooted three times, all while I was in the middle of saving things to User Programs. But I don't REALLY mind doing it all over again, because I know that Roland is infallible. It must be something I'm doing wrong. I just hope it doesn't happen on the job while I'm using it.

I like many things about both lines, and dislike a few things about both lines, and have so stated, but obviously certain people don't want to hear my opinions, all coming from real-life experience, so for God's sake quit reading them. It's for sure I don't pay much attention to anyone else's opinions after I have used the kb in question myself.

This wonderful forum is wearing me out. I seem to be sinking to the level of "mine's better than your's". However that can't be true because I don't even own an arranger right now. ALL the mid and top-end arrangers are wonderful. None are perfect. None are terrible.

It's time for a short break.
DonM
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/27/06 01:35 PM

See what happens when we get old..We get moody , possessive, insulting and we just hurt feelings....now let's talk about you Don
Posted by: DonM

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/27/06 01:40 PM

Don't give me no smiley face when I'm trying to be indignant.
DonM
Posted by: jonesyboy

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/27/06 02:42 PM

I am trying to reproduce the brass sounds on such songs as Knock on wood/Midnight hour and so on - I can get close but not quite there - any ideas? Also I am looking at the SD1x - how new is this board and does it compare sounds wise with th G70 - I know the obvious answer is to play one but to find a dealer - not an easy task!!
Thanks to everyone for all the replies/opinions and advice - much appreciated,
Mark

[This message has been edited by jonesyboy (edited 10-27-2006).]

[This message has been edited by jonesyboy (edited 10-27-2006).]
Posted by: Alex K

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/27/06 02:51 PM

Fran,

When I spoke to the Roland tech support complaining about the OTS button on my G70 forcing single-finger chord recognition on me, the support person said that the G70 is mainly intended for the home users, who would typically use single-finger chords the most. I replied to that that their promo materials tout the board as the high=end professional instrument. The Roland guy did not reply to my statement, but after listening to my arguments about the fact that "memory" is supposed to recall only what it stores, he reluctantly said that he would file a report with Roland Italy, and my concern may or may not be addressed. So, even in Roland't thinking just because something is big and heavy, it does not automatically become a pro-quality instrument.

You said, shipped three times... Out of curiosity, how many times a month do you take your instrument to gigs? A professional instrument should withstand years of rigors of being moved to and from gigs without losing knobs or sliders. My G70 is practically new (I have not gigged with it yet), but I too am not feeling too comfy about the feel of the sliders and knobs.

I believe that the G70 still has the best keyboard bed out there, but the rest of it begs to stay home, rather than be taken to gigs.

Regards
Posted by: cgiles

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/27/06 03:15 PM

There is usually a reason why some people have this need to turn every honest inquiry into a "mine is better than yours" crock. Maybe, for these people, a penile implant might help.

chas
Posted by: Diki

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/27/06 04:12 PM

DonM, I was in no way knocking Yamaha any harder than I knock all the others....... I simply commented on build quality. If I pay $4k for an instrument (especially one as studded with buttons as the T2) I want it to last as long as I play it. Hell, I can buy a REAL piano for that much that will last forever.....

As anyone who reads my posts will know, there ARE many things about the T2 I (and most others) DO like. This does not make it perfect, and if you can't take anyone calling a spade a spade, you might not want to get involved in a thread where a member ASKS FOR OPINIONS. Mine is as valid as anyone else's, here.

My G1000, after 9 years of constant gigging, was just sold to a friend in better condition (almost showroom) than the one he has now, which he has had for less time than me. My G70 will be sold in years to come, and I guarantee it will still be in tip top shape. A pro flight case is worth every penny you spend on it...... (and don;t move your keyboard if you are drunk! )

AlexK, you should know better than most that the chord recognition problem has been addressed in the E80, and is on it's way to us (along with many other fixes and enhancements) in a VERY shortly forthcoming new OS. I gig my G70 in and out of the car during the season (Mar-Oct) at least twice a day, many gigs a week. I play on a deck by the Gulf of Mexico 3-4 times a week. My G1000 did this for four years without a hint of corrosion or unreliable buttons and jacks.

Take it from a full-time professional..... build quality is not there just to make you feel like you bought an expensive instrument. It matters.
Posted by: DonM

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/27/06 06:37 PM

Diki, if you paid $4,000 for the T2, it was about a fourth too much. Mine was less than $3,000, delivered, with no tax and free financing.
I was responding more to Fran than you. He can take it! Probably should have just been quite, as nothing constructive was to be gained.
Peace,
DonM
Posted by: abacus

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/27/06 11:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jonesyboy:
I am trying to reproduce the brass sounds on such songs as Knock on wood/Midnight hour and so on - I can get close but not quite there - any ideas? Also I am looking at the SD1x - how new is this board and does it compare sounds wise with th G70 - I know the obvious answer is to play one but to find a dealer - not an easy task!!
Thanks to everyone for all the replies/opinions and advice - much appreciated,
Mark

[This message has been edited by jonesyboy (edited 10-27-2006).]

[This message has been edited by jonesyboy (edited 10-27-2006).]


Hello Mark
Find out what instruments/synths that were used on the songs, and then do a search for a VST instrument that emulates or has sampled the sounds, you will then be able to get a better match to the sound you require.
Please remember that the songs you hear on recordings have been mastered so will not sound exactly the same as the live performance.
Hope this helps

Bill


[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 10-28-2006).]
Posted by: Diki

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/28/06 10:27 AM

DonM....... no problem, just wanted to set the record straight (everybody seems to think that any Yamaha criticism is a put-down, I personally just think there IS room for improvement).

And even a $3k T2 deserves a better build quality that a $1.5k Motif-ES.......
Posted by: travlin'easy

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/28/06 07:03 PM

It must have snowed in the Philly area. Hmmmmmm! I can't quite make out the name, but judging by the signiture I'll bet he plays a G-1000.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy
Posted by: dlstarry

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/31/06 11:24 AM

"Probably should have just been quite, as nothing constructive was to be gained.
Peace,
DonM"

Maybe but it sure was fun to read, DonM
Peace,
Denny
Posted by: Tom Cavanaugh

Re: Best 76 Key - 10/31/06 03:39 PM

Don,

Chill my friend. I would say mine is better than yours but mine used to BE yours.
Thanks for the MP3. I'm working on learning the tune. I was surprised to learn that it has MORE than 3 chords in it. It must not really be country. It's probably western.

Tom
Posted by: Nick G

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 03:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
DonM....... no problem, just wanted to set the record straight (everybody seems to think that any Yamaha criticism is a put-down, I personally just think there IS room for improvement).

And even a $3k T2 deserves a better build quality that a $1.5k Motif-ES.......


All u gotta do is play and listen to it and u will realise why yamaha charge over $3000.00 US for a Tyros 2...

Build qaulity is a load of garbage, as long as u dont drop it on concrete or bash it with a hammer ulle be fine. The Roland being so heavy would probably cop way more internal damage if it was to be dropped.

The only hisotry of yamaha having weak buttons that break is from the PSR line.

im sure there would be hardly any cases of this happening with a tyros 1 or 2, and if ther were any it would be becuase the user is extremely un gentle and rough with the board.

I guess people need to find at least one thing in every keyboard to pick on... with yamaha it seems to be the 'build quality'. ide rather it be the build qaulity getting picked on than its 'sound quality'.

Cheers, Nick


[This message has been edited by Nick G (edited 11-01-2006).]
Posted by: travlin'easy

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 04:56 AM

Well said Nick, and I agree wholeheartedly. In all these years I've never had a button go bad, replaced a keypad or cracked the case on any of my Yamaha keyboards. And, I've never dropped one. BTW: A $60,000 Corvette is made of plastic (fiberglass), and no one every complained they were not built well.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 08:46 AM

Gary the lucky people that had accidents in one and were alive to state it...will complain about plastic..
BTW I had two friends that had Vette crashes..One complained about riding in "glass"..still bought another..My other friend didn't complain at all...I think you know why..

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 11-01-2006).]
Posted by: DonM

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 08:57 AM

I was driving my 66 Vette, years ago, and got hit by lightening. Don't know if it was good that it was glass, or bad. But all the wiring was fried, and I wasn't!
Back to keyboards, I'd rather have lightweight plastic than heavy metal (even in music), but then I don't keep 'em very long either way, and I take really good care of my gear. I've found that if a fight breaks out you can get more speed running with the plastic ones under your arm.
Wasn't it metal parts that blew off the space shuttle? Maybe if they'd used plastic . . . Naw, that's not even relevant!

DonM
Posted by: Tom Cavanaugh

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 12:25 PM

Don,

You had better change your tune about plastic verses metal. Replacement hips, knees, and shoulders are all metal.

Tom

[This message has been edited by Tom Cavanaugh (edited 11-01-2006).]
Posted by: Diki

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 12:28 PM

Well, thank you, Nick for pointing out the whole 'garbage-ness' of my opinion...... I guess 40 years of playing better and worse built keyboards (I've had keyboards from most manufacturers at one time or another) doesn't really give me any valid viewpoint. Thank you for pointing out my errors.

And, I do apologize.... The T2 is by far the most perfect piece of engineering that has ever graced our planet. There isn't a single feature or design choice that could possibly be improved. And when the T3 comes out, no-one will need to buy it because the T2 is already perfect....

Yamaha only build Motifs stronger because they are such a comparatively poor keyboard they HAVE to build them better just to get them to sell.......
Posted by: Nick G

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 01:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Well, thank you, Nick for pointing out the whole 'garbage-ness' of my opinion...... I guess 40 years of playing better and worse built keyboards (I've had keyboards from most manufacturers at one time or another) doesn't really give me any valid viewpoint. Thank you for pointing out my errors.

And, I do apologize.... The T2 is by far the most perfect piece of engineering that has ever graced our planet. There isn't a single feature or design choice that could possibly be improved. And when the T3 comes out, no-one will need to buy it because the T2 is already perfect....

Yamaha only build Motifs stronger because they are such a comparatively poor keyboard they HAVE to build them better just to get them to sell.......


Love your work Dikki...
Posted by: travlin'easy

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 01:10 PM

Fran,

Lexan is actually stronger that steel for it's weight, which is one of the reasons that many inner city schools now use them as windows. You can hit them with a concrete block and they will not crack or break. Most of the space-age plastics are much stronger than steel as well. Combinations of boron, graphite and fiberglass are now used in aircraft manufacturing because it's lighter and stronger than traditional aluminum. I think the only reason some keyboard manufacturers still use steel for their housings is because steel is a hell of a lot cheaper and can be stretch formed--not for strength.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 01:24 PM

Thank You MR WIZARD!!!!
Posted by: DonM

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 02:04 PM

Diki,
Nobody believes in a middle ground. None of them is all good or all bad. Buy what rings your bell, huh!
This is getting boring isn't it?
DonM
Posted by: Diki

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 03:33 PM

DonM...... that's my whole point, but you certainly wouldn't get that impression from the rabid defense of ANY criticism of the T2 here at SZ.

Build quality, closed format for the sampler, 61 keys, very slow sampler load times (comparatively), the T2 has it's flaws. If you want to look at my wishlist for the G70, go here; http://www.selskabsmusikeren.dk/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=60&board=13.0

They ALL have flaws and areas that deserve improvement. I'm just a little tired of T2 lovers that can't admit there is room for improvement. Hell, I'd buy one in a flash if it had 76 non toy-like keys, and they fix the sampler (I need Akai import like Korg and Roland and Kurzweil and just about every software sampler does).

Maybe there is a secret site on the web they don't tell anyone else about, where they can vent THEIR frustrations, and no others get to hear it, thus propagating the myth the T2 is PERFECT!

Anyway, please ignore this post, because my opinions ARE garbage.....!
Posted by: Nick G

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 06:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
DonM...... that's my whole point, but you certainly wouldn't get that impression from the rabid defense of ANY criticism of the T2 here at SZ.

Build quality, closed format for the sampler, 61 keys, very slow sampler load times (comparatively), the T2 has it's flaws. If you want to look at my wishlist for the G70, go here; http://www.selskabsmusikeren.dk/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=60&board=13.0

They ALL have flaws and areas that deserve improvement. I'm just a little tired of T2 lovers that can't admit there is room for improvement. Hell, I'd buy one in a flash if it had 76 non toy-like keys, and they fix the sampler (I need Akai import like Korg and Roland and Kurzweil and just about every software sampler does).

Maybe there is a secret site on the web they don't tell anyone else about, where they can vent THEIR frustrations, and no others get to hear it, thus propagating the myth the T2 is PERFECT!

Anyway, please ignore this post, because my opinions ARE garbage.....!


"Hell, I'd buy one in a flash if it had 76 non toy-like keys"

If thats not garbage then what is?
Posted by: travlin'easy

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 06:27 PM

Hey Fran,

There's one other plastic product I forgot about--kevlar. They make lightweight boat hulls and bullet-proof vests from this stuff. Much stronger and lighter than steel, easy to work with, and it can be molded into any shape or form. Neat!

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy
Posted by: DonM

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 08:52 PM

I think John Kerry has plastic hair.
DonM
Posted by: Diki

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 11:23 PM

Nick, I'm not really sure what your beef is......

Have you actually PLAYED a G70 (or G1000 or A70 or G800)? Do you honestly mean to tell me that the T2's keybed doesn't feel lightweight and flimsy in comparison?

Now, you may prefer a much lighter action, no problem with that, but even most G70 detractors will grudgingly admit that the keyboard FEELS nice.....

Perhaps, to the very best players out there (and the worst!), the feel of a keyboard doesn't make any difference, but me, I like all the help I can get! Having to play one for 8 hours a day in season, the feel and response of a key-bed makes the difference between playing your keyboard, and just hitting the keys.


BTW, Nick, it's difficult to tell from your last two abbreviated posts at me whether you are just being combative, or whether you actually have a point to make other than 'T2 good..... others bad.....' Perhaps you could string a couple of sentences together and explain why you prefer flimsy keyboards?
Posted by: Nick G

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/01/06 11:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Nick, I'm not really sure what your beef is......

Have you actually PLAYED a G70 (or G1000 or A70 or G800)? Do you honestly mean to tell me that the T2's keybed doesn't feel lightweight and flimsy in comparison?

Now, you may prefer a much lighter action, no problem with that, but even most G70 detractors will grudgingly admit that the keyboard FEELS nice.....

Perhaps, to the very best players out there (and the worst!), the feel of a keyboard doesn't make any difference, but me, I like all the help I can get! Having to play one for 8 hours a day in season, the feel and response of a key-bed makes the difference between playing your keyboard, and just hitting the keys.


BTW, Nick, it's difficult to tell from your last two abbreviated posts at me whether you are just being combative, or whether you actually have a point to make other than 'T2 good..... others bad.....' Perhaps you could string a couple of sentences together and explain why you prefer flimsy keyboards?


Im not here to fight with anyone, I dont pick on keyboards or other brands.

Im sure on alot of occasions most people in their heads really want to say something but they hold back becuase they have whats called respect and thought for other people.

I too am one of those people, but it takes someone to speak up sometimes in order to get a point accross and something to generate.

Ill tell you what I honestly thought of the roland demo of the new OS v3? The acoustic guitars from the marvellous "guitar mode" sound like the 10 year old XG 12 string guitar patch, most Yamaha owners will know exactly what i am talking about but will probably have a quiet chuckle to themselve knowing im right...

But I originally did not go and post that purely for the fact that there are a lot of proud owners who would be highly offended, and I have respect for that and other peoples'choices and preferences.

You on the other hand constantly voice your opinion to bash the yamaha 'build quality'.

Voice your opinion as much as you want it is a free world and this is the internet. But by posting something on a forum you are vurtually saying it directly to alot of people who read this forum every day, and most in their minds are thinking "JUST SHUT UP MATE". But they dont post it becuase they dont want to cause any trouble.

If you like your harder keys and super heavy / strong 'build quality' then fine, tell us how much you love it, GOOD FOR YOU. but continue to use yamaha as an example as Shit build quality, you will have to put up with people like me who will always tell you your full of shit and that opinion is worth RUBBISH. SHOW US SOME PROOF!

If the admin wants me banned from this site for this post, fine do it, I have no regrets and I will continue to post my opinion when someone continuously makes such bald statements over and over like a broken record!

Cheers,
Nick
Posted by: adimatis

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/02/06 12:17 AM

now, that is getting way too "hot"!
i can not help posting here, even if i eventualy don't care much about defending or praising a certain brand or product.
i just feel bad seeing good people getting too inflame over such things!
really, friends, each one of us have his/her own oppinions, which may or may not be similar, but is it worthy getting so passioned about it?
i know this sound obsolete, but please, can you guys be more calm about everything?

well, in the end, what matters is what did i/you/they learned from whatever is posted here.....
Posted by: Nick G

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/02/06 12:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by adimatis:
now, that is getting way too "hot"!
i can not help posting here, even if i eventualy don't care much about defending or praising a certain brand or product.
i just feel bad seeing good people getting too inflame over such things!
really, friends, each one of us have his/her own oppinions, which may or may not be similar, but is it worthy getting so passioned about it?
i know this sound obsolete, but please, can you guys be more calm about everything?

well, in the end, what matters is what did i/you/they learned from whatever is posted here.....


your right, Im sorry for cuasing such a strife, but I feel strong about what I said I feel as if I spoke to more than just myself... no regrets. back to making music
Posted by: cgiles

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/02/06 01:25 AM

Ironic, isn't it? We seem to get along well discussing anything EXCEPT arranger keyboards.

chas
Posted by: jamman

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/02/06 05:18 AM

I prefer G70's keys/keybed to anything on the market including T2 and PA1x pro.

But that does'nt mean I would get one.
I think T2 is the best overall ARRANGER to play live.And psr 3000 is best arranger under $2000.


just IMO.



[This message has been edited by jamman (edited 11-02-2006).]
Posted by: KFingers

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/02/06 07:06 AM

Hey Janman - I'm with you

I have a T2 and ....
Love the sounds - Hate the build
Love the styles - Hate the keyboard
Love the weight - Hate the price
Love this forum - Hate all this really stupid bickering

I also love Rolands - G70 is OK but the E80 is brilliant - I also love the Ketrons but you can't always have everything..

I respect Dikki and have always found him to have balanced views which is not something you can say about everyone whether they put smiley faces on their posts or not

I guess that what is important to me (at this moment in time) is more important than all the crap features that the T2 also has - So what - it's my decision stand or fall.

I have never vented my spleen in one of these peeing competitions before and I'll probably get shot down in flames for it but sadly this forum aint what it was.

That's all folks....
Posted by: DonM

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/02/06 07:36 AM

Well said.
But how do you vent a spleen? With a .45 caliber?
DonM
almost forgot

[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 11-02-2006).]
Posted by: Diki

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/02/06 09:48 AM

Sorry, Nick, you are talking to the wrong guy. I am the first to criticize my own G70, I am very happy to admit there are things about it I would like improved, and I don't mind a bit you posting with your honest assessment of it's sound, or OS or weight(!) or anything you feel like critiquing.....

But I would never call your opinion 'garbage'..... You are as entitled to it as I am to mine. It's this belittling of anyone that has ANYTHING negative to say about the almighty T2 that is so frustrating, and then to justify it by saying you would never belittle anyone else's arranger that is just doublespeak..... That is EXACTLY what you are doing by saying someone's opinion in 'garbage'

As you can read in the above posts, I am not the only one who prefers the G70 build quality. Must be a lot of garbage out there........

You see, Nick, this thread was humming along nicely until you decided to call another member's opinion 'garbage'. Imagine how things would have got if someone simply replied in as puerile a manner as you that, no, it was YOUR opinion that was 'garbage'. You probably would not have liked that.

I know I didn't......
Posted by: cgiles

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/02/06 12:15 PM

Ahhh, "Deja Vu all over again". Well, at least I've learned a few things (and isn't that what this board is all about), such as;

1. The words "arranger keyboard", by their simple utterance, can elicit such emotional responses as "go f*** yourself" and other well thought-out and colorful phrases.

2. Intellect flies out the window when one's feelings are hurt.

3. There IS a "perfect" keyboard; it's called "the one I own".

4. Manufacturers are listening intently and Chord Sequencers will appear on all 2007 models (even those under $500).

5. Judging from most of the music posted here, 61 vs 76 keys, keybed feel, and build-quality is the least of most members problems.

6. And from the "where are you from" post, apparently the US is not the capitol of the world (and especially not the arranger keyboard world).

I'm proposing that some of that energy used to create these highly entertaining but ultimately useless posts, be diverted to practicing scales.

From a (partly) reformed "nasty-post" writer,

Peace,

chas
Posted by: captain Russ

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/02/06 01:18 PM

RIGHT ON, Chas...please don't COMPLETELY convert to being nice all the time...I'd miss the humor and well articulated opinions!!


Regards,


Russ
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/02/06 01:35 PM

Chas is an out spoken, old goat too....almost forgot the smiley face..
Posted by: cgiles

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/02/06 02:53 PM

Is it true that Levittown, PA has been officially added to the Axis of Evil, led by evil dictator Kim Jong Carango? I understand that he has tested the biggest bomb in the history of man, the G1000. Effects from this bomb could be felt as far away as.....Marcus Hook.



chas
Posted by: jonesyboy

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/03/06 06:36 PM

Any chance that we can revert back to the original question of "Best 76 key" KB. I am looking at a wersi - any thoughts on good/bad points of the Wersi brand - don't know mnuch about them but the demo cd they sent me sounds really good,
Thanks in advance to everyone for the help,
Hopefully this won't start another war of words with rubbish posts!
Thanks
Mark
(Or sometjhing like that)
Quote:
Originally posted by cgiles:
Is it true that Levittown, PA has been officially added to the Axis of Evil, led by evil dictator Kim Jong Carango? I understand that he has tested the biggest bomb in the history of man, the G1000. Effects from this bomb could be felt as far away as.....Marcus Hook.



chas




[This message has been edited by jonesyboy (edited 11-03-2006).]
Posted by: DonM

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/03/06 06:38 PM

There are some Wersi owners here and they seem very happy. I would suggest you start a new topic with this question, because, as you suggested, this one has gotten off track.
DonM
Posted by: Diki

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/03/06 05:02 PM

Back on topic, here..... I am still interested in hearing if you have considered anything other than another arranger as your 76 note keyboard. The E80's operating system allows you to address external keyboards from the Style and SMF player (and, to a limited extent, the Keyboard Parts), so you could still use a Triton or MotifES and have them communicate in either direction.

Choosing a workstation as your 76-er dramatically increases your choices (and dramatically lowers the potential cost, too!). Especially if you cover more contemporary and pop tunes, there's a lot about the Triton/Motif line that can make you sound hipper than most arrangers, especially if you can drive their arpeggiators from your arranger's MIDI clock.....

To be honest, in your situation, I think I would have kept the T2 and used a G70 (especially now that OS3 has seriously improved the sound and styles) as your 76-er. But water under the bridge........
Posted by: jonesyboy

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/04/06 01:09 AM

Thanks for youtr feedback - I am still in a "don't know" situation - I am currently listening to the Wersi Ikarus - and it sounds really good - I just don't know much about them and there is only one dealer here in the UK so does that tell me something?? I still have tyhe T2 and the E80 - I am using the E80 for the band stuff and the T2 is gathering dust at home - I know the T2 is a great instrument but for what I play the E80 is better. I have thought about the G70 but I wonder if the G70 is going to be just like the E80 with extra keys? What improvements/enhancements has the V3 made to the G70?
Thanks again for the post,
Regards
Mark
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Back on topic, here..... I am still interested in hearing if you have considered anything other than another arranger as your 76 note keyboard. The E80's operating system allows you to address external keyboards from the Style and SMF player (and, to a limited extent, the Keyboard Parts), so you could still use a Triton or MotifES and have them communicate in either direction.

Choosing a workstation as your 76-er dramatically increases your choices (and dramatically lowers the potential cost, too!). Especially if you cover more contemporary and pop tunes, there's a lot about the Triton/Motif line that can make you sound hipper than most arrangers, especially if you can drive their arpeggiators from your arranger's MIDI clock.....

To be honest, in your situation, I think I would have kept the T2 and used a G70 (especially now that OS3 has seriously improved the sound and styles) as your 76-er. But water under the bridge........




[This message has been edited by jonesyboy (edited 11-04-2006).]
Posted by: abacus

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/04/06 02:23 AM

Hello Mark
The G70 V3 adds the additional features that are available on the E80, and also adds refinement to the styles and sounds.
Wersi is a small company that has been in existence since 1969, and have always produced premium rate instruments, (They prefer to trade like Mercedesí with limited dealerships rather then Ford which has a dealer on virtually every street corner) there instruments have also normally been innovative, and have introduced new features much sooner then mainstream manufactures, (Although they did loose the plot a bit in the nineties) they also believe that their customers should not be forced to change there boards every 2 years just to get the latest features.
If you purchased one of there new instruments in 2000, it can be upgraded to the latest spec for a reasonable cost. (Considerably cheaper then the amount of money lost by trading in old boards for new)
Most of the current demo discs do not feature the latest software OAS 7, which is a considerable upgrade in both features and sound compared to previous versions.
You also donít have to buy additional sounds from Wersi, as you can use Akai samples and VST instruments.
If you want any further information just ask. (I currently run OAS 6 and when I get the time I will be upgrading to OAS 7)

Bill

BTW Whereabouts in the UK are you.


[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 11-04-2006).]
Posted by: jonesyboy

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/04/06 02:58 AM

Hi Bill,
I am in the West Midlands - thanks for your reply - if you had no objectionh I would really like an opportunity to have a quick chat with you - my email is markjones01@sky.com if you have no objection perhaps you could let me have your contact no. and I can call you,
Thanks
Mark
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
Hello Mark
The G70 V3 adds the additional features that are available on the E80, and also adds refinement to the styles and sounds.
Wersi is a small company that has been in existence since 1969, and have always produced premium rate instruments, (They prefer to trade like Mercedesí with limited dealerships rather then Ford which has a dealer on virtually every street corner) there instruments have also normally been innovative, and have introduced new features much sooner then mainstream manufactures, (Although they did loose the plot a bit in the nineties) they also believe that their customers should not be forced to change there boards every 2 years just to get the latest features.
If you purchased one of there new instruments in 2000, it can be upgraded to the latest spec for a reasonable cost. (Considerably cheaper then the amount of money lost by trading in old boards for new)
Most of the current demo discs do not feature the latest software OAS 7, which is a considerable upgrade in both features and sound compared to previous versions.
You also donít have to buy additional sounds from Wersi, as you can use Akai samples and VST instruments.
If you want any further information just ask. (I currently run OAS 6 and when I get the time I will be upgrading to OAS 7)

Bill

BTW Whereabouts in the UK are you.


[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 11-04-2006).]
Posted by: Diki

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/04/06 09:12 AM

Just a slight clarification....... OS3 for the G70 does NOT add ALL the functions from the E80. You cannot (as of now, but maybe Roland got another update up their sleeves....) view lyrics in style mode, just SMF play, you cannot link .bmp pictures with anything, and hardware differences are significant. The E80 has 2 SRX slots to the G70's one, the E80 has three MFX insert effects to the G70's one (or two with a hack), the E80 has independent Mastering Tools (EQ and 3band Comp) for Style AND Keyboard parts, G70 has only one global..... And the E80 has a smaller, but higher quality sound selection.

Just thought I'd clear that up........
Posted by: DonM

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/04/06 09:15 AM

The lyrics/style link alone makes a big difference to me.
DonM
Posted by: Diki

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/05/06 12:55 AM

For those of you with the time to try it, I have posted here; http://www.selskabsmusikeren.dk/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=60&topic=1689.0

This workaround allows a limited ability to view lyrics in style mode on the G70.....
Posted by: Diki

Re: Best 76 Key - 11/05/06 01:01 AM

And this Tip and Trick; http://www.selskabsmusikeren.dk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=209&Itemid=28 allows you to insert an MFX effect onto Song and Style Parts..... Ok, it's not three MFX, but it's still better than none, and can go a fair way towards E80 capabilities.

For those of us still firmly wedded to 76 note keyboards, these workarounds might make the difference between getting a G70 and having to use a 61 note E80......