XD9 arrived while I was at the shore !

Aaaagh ! Now, I have to run home and fiddle with this puppy for an hour before I take it to work tonight ! I was relaxing, sipping lemonade ......... decided to check the emails, and BAM ! DanO says "Well???????"

I'm on my way home - I'll be there by 5pm - just enough time to play with it till 6 - hop in the shower, and get to work for a 7:30 downbeat. Boy are my fans in for a surprise ....... Donny, you commin? Fran, you home too???? C'mon out guys & gals - see what this new hunk-a-junk can do !

dANo - THANX FOR THE FAST SHIPMENT !
(Damn caps lok)

Gotta run.............

I'll say this for you, you got a lot of guts taking it that quickly to the job.
But I did the same with the 2K
Don

Hi UD,

can't wait to hear your detailed report tonight or first thing in the morning

Eric

Yet another keyboard for Uncle Dave? I'm not surprised! LOL!

But seriously, hopefully you finally find the right keyboard for you Uncle Dave! Like DonM already said, "...you got a lot of guts taking it that quickly to the job."

That would be so cool to perform live, on stage, right in front of the crowd! It must be tons of fun - in the future, I cannot wait until I get that opportunity! But until then, I am going to be enjoying the Yamaha PSR740 and learning as much as I can about the piano, MIDI instruments, and everything needed to know about music (I really, really, really want to take piano lessons!). Playing straight from the heart and trusting in God to provide me with great music are the most important things to me when it comes to reaching people with my talents!

Well, see you around everybody and can't wait to hear what UD thinks about the XD9...
Ryan

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DonM, get ready to recieve your PA80. I got a chance to here Uncle Dave's XD9 and the Pa80 side by side..As I expected the bass and drums on the Ketron are better than the Korg. I prefer the bass patterns much better on the Ketron..Tonight the vocals sounded better on the Korg,but Dave did not have time to set up properly[I am sure the mic settings will be improved].Dave will comment soon ...

Fran is right - the mic settings were not very good. I remember the X1 being much easier to get it right.

I was brave tonight, but I worked with a net .... I left my Korg on the stage last night, so I just set the XD on a stand next to it. I played the first set on the Korg, and the second on the XD, and the first impressions are as follows:

1) Bass and drums are indeed, awesome - like the SD1
2) Button layout is more cryptic than the X1, but easier than the VA7 was. I need more time to decide if it's logical enough for me .... so far it's a little clumsy.
3) Patterns - hmmmmm, not an earth shattering difference from other Ketron lines, but again - it's early I only played it an hour.
4) Sounds - typical Ketron - wonderful, expressive, in your face
5) Mic - the factory settings did not work well for me, and when I did a quick tweak, it was better, but no where near acceptable yet. I'll be fair ... I need more time with it to fiddle. It has to get better, cause it really was sub standard tonight.
6) No dedicated 1/4 inch jack to control the harmonizer on/off. You must use the big, bulky, heavy 6 button FS that is made by Ketron.
7) Sequence play - didn't load the hard drive yet, but Dan and I discussed the "search" while playing feature, and we don't think it does this after all. This will be a disappointment for me if it remains true.
8) Overall impression: It sounds every bit as good as the SD1, and feels great too. It's not too heavy, and it's pretty to look at (if you like that siver/goldish look) It's the color of the new Triton Studio. (sort of)
9) Price was well within the range for what you get. seems like a better value than the SD1 was.

10) Problems?

a) Tempo did NOT lock 100% between style changes, as it should. Could be gremlins, could be something else - can't live with that if it's a bug
b) Poor access to fast octave switch for right hand sounds, or bass sounds - menu driven
c) So far - we can't find a quick, dedicated button that controls the song volume in real time during seq playback. Might be there, but hidden from us - we'll explore more.
d) NO stereo audio in's - maybe the extra mic in can work as a line level, audio in ... don't know yet
e) No dedicated on/off for arranger, or pianist or bassist modes - all menu driven .... may be a problem for me, maybe not.

I did not spend that much time on it ... I'll fool more after the weekend. I will not take it to my wedding tomorrow, it's just not feasible without a F/S for the harmonizer, and I can't pump the Digitech into it, because there are no audio IN's!
So ... untill the next session with it ...... This wil have to do. So far .... the only real advantage seems to be the drums, and it's a slight advantage over the Korg, cuz they rock too. More later .... I have an early start tomorrow .

UD,
Just wanted to help out with some of your 'problems' listed to get you off to a quick start. After spending some more time with it, I believe you will discover lots more:

7) Sequence play - didn't load the hard drive yet, but Dan and I discussed the "search" while playing feature, and we don't think it does this after all. This will be a disappointment for me if it remains true.
>>>AJ: While playing a style, press DISK. Select any midisong and press LOAD. Instantly, your accompaniment will stop and the midifile will begin playback when you press START. The reverse is also true (but you will have to set DRUM REMIX to OnLine (from the menu) ).

a) Tempo did NOT lock 100% between style changes, as it should. Could be gremlins, could be something else - can't live with that if it's a bug.
>>>AJ: Press -TEMO + buttons together to lock tempo. Remember thought that if styles are predominantly grooves, the slight 'human' effect might kick in. This feature will be enabled/disabled by user in next OS.

b) Poor access to fast octave switch for right hand sounds, or bass sounds - menu driven.
>>AJ: You can access this on the fly by pressing both -VALUE+ buttons together and toggle b/w off, up and down.

c) So far - we can't find a quick, dedicated button that controls the song volume in real time during seq playback. Might be there, but hidden from us - we'll explore more.
>>>AJ: The -VALUE+ buttons do this. In default, they control the arranger volume.

d) NO stereo audio in's - maybe the extra mic in can work as a line level, audio in ... don't know yet.
>>>AJ: The MIC input infront does serve as stereo LINE input as well. Volumes, effects, Pan etc are controlled under EFFECTS.

I am glad you did enjoy your first night out with it for we thought we did design this to be easy to use from day one. What did you think of the manual?

Thanks.

AJ


[This message has been edited by Ketron_AJ (edited 08-03-2002).]

The search while playing feature works great Dave. I was just going to tell you how to do it but AJ already explained. One thing AJ mentioned is that the mic inputs can also be line in's in stereo, but not if you are also using a mic. Then, it would only be a mono in for the line. I too wish there was a dedicated octave up and down rather than having to simultaneously push two buttons and having to toggle up normal and down..
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

UD ,

Call me at home tommorrow if you have questions 410 598 2618 . OR just email !
Thank you ....dano

Ps...wasn't able to get on line today at store !

Great help! Thanx guys. I left the XD home today, because I had a double, and I was backing a female singer at both jobs ... I didn't think it would be fair to make her put up with my experimentation. If I was alone ... I'd try it, but I wanted to make her comfy. (Ain't I sweet?)

I played it another 1/2 hr or so before work today, and here are some "early" findings. Remember - this is "INITIAL REACTION" stuff. I am not making any permanent decisions yet.
Here goes:
I made a list of things that are most important to me, and scored "0" if it works as it should, "1" if it's slightly better, and "2" if it's WAY better. Here's the results

ESSENTIALS:

Piano Sound - P0 / X2
Drawbar sounds - P2 / X1
Vocal tone - P0 / X0
Solo sounds - P0 / X1
Key feel - P1 / X2
Size - P1 / X0
Weight - P1 / X0
Button Ease - P1 / X0
R/T vol changes - P1 / X0
F/S options - P1 / X0
Seq play - P2 / X1
GM sounds - P1 / X2
Drum sounds - P1 / X2
Drum styles - P0 / X1
Price vs. value - P0 / X0

Score so far - EVEN at 13 each for essentials (personal preference will affect this, of course)

GINGERBREAD/GLITZ

STS/OTS - P1 / X0
Pads - P-1 / X0
Multi outs - P2 / X1
Drum remix - P0 / X1
Sound morph - P0 / X1
RH sounds - P3 / X2
LH sounds - P1 / X2
Audio grooves(samples) - P0 / X1
Sample option - P1 / X0
Expansion card slot - P1 /X0

Score for Glitz - Korg 10 ..... Ketron 8
Score for Essentials - Korg 13 .....Ketron 13

Totals: Korg=23 .... Ketron=21

D*I*S*C*L*A*I*M*E*R - - - - -

This is EARLY observations .... I have almost NO time to fool with this. These are just what I have noticed so far.

My initial reaction is that the XD9 sounds superb, feels superb, but acts just OK.
(Jury is still out on this point)

The Korg was hard to get to know, but seems to have the advantage for me in real time, two handed play mode, at THIS time. The XD seems to have a better, smoother rhythmic feel, and is probably a better choice if you play arranger mode all night.
I'm not completely sold yet ... I need more time.

Want more reactions??????

I made another list of a few categories that these units are competitive in, and I scored only the best overall winner.(at THIS time)

so...

Live Player(LHbass) - Korg
Arr player - Ketron
2 handed piano player - Ketron
Synth player - Korg
Studio piece ...... too close to call -
(Ketron is quieter overall, Korg has extra outs .... toss up?)
Vocal processor - Ketron
3rd party support(styles) - Korg
Homeuser friendly - Ketron
Pro user friendly - Korg
Key response (poly lag) - Korg
* This was an issue on both the X1 and the SD1 - two handed playing, layered sound, sustain ped on ..... cough, choke, sputter ... (exaggerated, but still a factor)

So - that a 5 to 4 win for the Korg.

I'll have more time to evaluate the XD after the weekend, so I'll certainly post my reactions. I expect better results based on AJ, Dan & George's tips ... so keep the positive thoughts ....... It's not for sale yet ! (well, actually EVERYthing I have is for sale ... it just not a RUSH yet. )

I'm tired, my feet ache, my eyes are blurry from this PC screen, and I want to be fresh for my buddy's client tomorrow. I'll check in real soon with more on the XD9 front.

I gotta repeat though .... this thing SOUNDS superb. Simply superb. Awesome, realistic tones and the freshest drums around.

???? You mean the manual that DIDN'T come in the box?

I downloaded the manual from the site, but that is NO excuse for shipping a $2000 keyboard without paperwork. It's a terrible oversight on the part of Ketron.

Your manual is way better than the X1 was.
Can't wait to get the hard copy, so I can bring it into my bathr..... I mean READING room !

Manual will arrive tuesday . dano

OK - in the interrest of faIRNESS:
Quick vol change for seq or arranger - now ok
search during playback - now ok

The score is almost tied at this point UNTIL - ?!?!?!?!?!?!? The tempo lok is still arratic. This must be an anomoly, because even the cheapest little Casio's lock tempo during playback of styles.

Try this:

Swing group - start with f6 or f7 style (forgot the name) it's 120BPM I think ... now lok the tempo, and select f8 - mine changes to 140 ... try f10 and it jumps to 160.

This simply will not do fella's. If this can't be fixed - I can't use it. (Sorry dan0)

Try other units, and see if it happens .... maybe mine is just a fluke .... in which case, I'll have to throw it back until it grows up !

Have you tried to save/enter the tempo's of the styles you wish to lock ? It really is easy .
I would be more than happy to do it for you and send via email !


dano

[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 08-05-2002).]

If this can't be fixed - I can't use it. (Sorry dan0)

Well ...my 1st reaction is to be defensive cause I love the sound of the Ketron gear much more than Korg . I see way to many advantages with Ketron keyboards . Plus ....I am really into happy customers *~* .
But .....you are UNCLE Dave after all . If tempo lock is truely a issue with the XD9 , I am sure that Sandro and AJ will look into this and correct it . I do not have the XD9 near me to investigate . gotta go !


dano



[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 08-05-2002).]

[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 08-05-2002).]

I liked the styles of the XD9 generally but could not figure out how to change panel memories - there did not seem to be dedicated buttons to select one setup after another easily during the course of a song. I tried fiddling with the plus / minus, but in a bustling show, without any manual, could not get anything to work.
How do you increase the panel memories with a simple button push?

Can you be more specific about panel memories ? dano

a full registration setup. All I could find was the reg button followed by numerical entry.

technicsplayer,

The panel memory (technics) are refered to here as Registrations (Ketron/Yamaha). To access a REGISTER, you have to

* press the REGISR button on the right below the voices.
* Once the cooresponding LED is on, enter the number of the Registration you would like to access using the numeric/styles buttons (0-9).

To SAVE into a registration slot, set the keyboard as you wish.

* Press SAVE/ENTER and press REGISTR (F1). * Use the numeric/styles buttons (0-9) to access the location you wish to save to.
* Rename if you wish and SAVE.

You can save a total of 198 Registrations on board into a single BLOCK register. The entire block can be saved onto FD/HD so you can create several blocks each of 198 registrations/panel memories. You can also use SINGLE REGISTERS (accessed directly from FD/HD), in place of BLOCK REGISTERS (described above).

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

AJ

Uncle Dave and Dan O,
The style UD is talking about is fast swing. Fast swing is using one of the grooves sampled into the XD9. It's tempo can never be slower than 160. So, even though you've locked the style tempo, it can't stay at 120. it must go to 160. Had you locked the tempo at 170, it would have stayed locked. We've talked about this on the X1 and SD1 for users who don't understand why the bossanova won't go slower than 80BPM. The groove would sound silly at a slower rate because of the limitations of sampling. I even called AJ to varify this a few minutes ago and he tried it and agreed with my evaluation.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

thanks AJ,
that is what I found by fiddling. But it means when playing the only way to get the next registration is to press 4 buttons in a row, reg, followed by 0,0,1, reg followed by 0,0,2 etc etc?

I thought there must be a way of setting the +/- buttons to quickly scroll through registrations with just one button push.

... forgot to include. You can also determine settings (what a registration should change or ignor) by:

* Press UTILITY (from default screen).
* Press REGIS.Menu (F6).
* You can select from here what you want changed/not changed when you switch Registrations. Don't forget to SAVE before exiting.

Thanks GK + AJ .

technicsplayer,

You can assign up/down feature to the footswitch so you can scroll through (can't be done with current OS on panel buttons).
AJ

thanks, AJ, that's why it would not work, it can't be done!

OK - That makes sense .... but there was another one on that same page that locked at 140 ... I'll check to see if it's another sampled groove or not.

Whew ! What a relief - I knew there was a reason .... tempo lok is such a basic concept, and can't be compromised in my line of work. I frequently change between two or more rhythm patterns during a song .... for example:
"On Green Dolphin Street" 1/2 latin, 1/2 swing - gotta have both ! Aslo " I've Got a Lotta Livin' To Do"(Bye Bye Birdie) latin/swing again .

I'll play with it tomorrow, but this is the first kb that I didn't bring right to work and just "live with" - mostly because I had the X1 and SD1 and both fell short on my desires list. I'm treading water with this one, but I AM giving it a fair chance. I WANT to like it .... I really do. I want the option of the better right hand harmonizer that Ketron offers over the Korg method. I'll go play with it now, and post more later. (Wish I had a peach pie to go to, like George did !)