Yamaha 9000pro vs Solton SD-1: Interesting Observation

Hi,

The "biggest" enthusiasts of the Solton SD-1 (on this board) are BOTH Solton Dealers.

The "biggest" enthusiasts of the Yamaha 9000pro are Yamaha keyboard customer/owners. What does THAT mean? (Just an observation).

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 02-09-2001).]

I admit to being pro-Solton! That came from playing it! I have no other reason! Sorry! I am a previous Korg I30 user, before that nothing but Roland. And you know what? In the future I may be a Korg or Roland user again! My point, for right now, the KB I want is the SD1.
I really do not understand why people get so upset over this issue! I think it's great to here all the pros and cons. Whether or not I believe them is my choice. I recently posted a request for anyone to give me feedback on the X1 and Solton in general. I recieved no negative response.
This whole issue of " mine is better than yours" is a waste of time. We could be talking about more important things!!!

[This message has been edited by JCkeeys (edited 02-09-2001).]

Hello Scott,
I sell both Yamaha PSR9000/PRO and Ketron.
I let customers decide which keyboard they want to buy . However, my preference has always been Ketron . It's vanilla and chocolate . DanO @ guitarcenter
PS. Guitar center offers a 30 day trial period on any keyboard . Money back, no questions asked .Try them both. Does that benefit the consumer or Guitar Center ? I have a right to my opinion's .

I didn't mean to take sides in my above comment. It was just an observation.

I played both the SD-1 & 9000pro and though each has its' unique strengths and weaknesses, I know I would probably be equally happy with either keyboard as BOTH are EXCELLENT 'top of the line' arranger keyboards.

I do agree (with JCkeeys) that it'important to keep things in perspective though because excellent music can be made on most all the mid-upper range arranger keyboards now so instead of focussing on argueing about which is the latest/greatest board out there, better to concentrate on playing (making) music. Having the latest keyboard WILL NOT make you a better musician (or sound better). The real soul of the music comes from US, not the keyboard. Only the time spent "playing/practicing" will do that.

Dan, BTW, I finally had a chance to watch your "Solton X1" instructional video today . Excellent presentation. I really got a chance to see the strengths of the X1 which includes the ability to change styles yet retain (mix/match) different parts. I really liked that. Of course I agree that you have the right to your opinions and I respect that. My above comment was just an interesting observation.

Scott

So I guess it would be safe to say, The 9000Pro is well laid out and probably easier to navigate around more of a universal type keyboard setup like the other big guys, korg roland and so on. Japanese boxed styles, as Roland and Korg.
Solton, probably a little personal design and programming, not using the standard " string" sound or the "sax" but doing it the way they feel it should be done, like a rebel

Hi, I like ketron X1 more than any keyboard and I am not a ketron dealer. I think the ketron company needs to improve one thing and in my opinion it doesn't make any difference for a pro musician and that is the look of the keyboard.

Amhad,
I think that Ketron made a 100% improvement in the looks of the new SD-1: VERY PROFESSIONAL looking to me. I orginally had thought the look was dated, but the more I see it, the more I have grown to like the 'new' look. I always felt the acoustic piano patch on the X1 was "real bad", but on the SD-1 this has been addressed, and I now feel that the SD-1's acoutic piano patch is now among the very best. I was VERY impressed.

It's really a TOUGH decision between the SD-1 & Yamaha 9000pro.

SOLTON SD-1
PROS: Excellent size/weight factor. Relatively lightweight and small form factor for ease of getting in/out of a car (gig transport). Terrific sounds/styles. Style change feature which allows you to easily retain/remove specific parts. Nice cosmetic design begining to appeal to my aesthtics.
CONS: floppy disk mounted on top is rather ugly. buttons are all the same shape/size making it harder to locate. Bad reliability reputation of Italian made products. Does not support professional keyboard playing style (advanced chord recognition).

YAMAHA 9000pro
PROS: Great sounds/styles. The acoustic piano patch is outstanding. Button layout is superb (ergonomic) for easy access to controls. Beautiful sleek looking design. Keyboard action (responsive) is excellent for a synth keyboard. Supports professional keyboard playing style (advanced chord voicings). Yamaha's excellent record for reliability.
CONS: Too HEAVY for easy transport. The keyboard could have easily been made shorter by simply moving the mod wheels above the keyboard rather than to the left. This would have made the 9000pro MUCH easier to fit into a smaller car.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 02-10-2001).]

Scott,

Your summation of the pro's and con's of the 9000PRO and SD1 express my feelings except for one major SD1 con that I gripe about. That is, terribly poor distribution due to the fact that there are only a few distributors (stores selling the product) in the U.S. That's a BIG DOWNSIDE for me.

In regard to the 9000PRO being too long . . . you've got to start thinking bigger. I recommend Cadillac.

Cadillacs are a nice big car with plenty of room in the back seat for the 9000PRO. Besides, shouldn't a keyboard that nice be transported in style?

Cadillacs come in all shapes and colors. Find yourself a nice 1994 to 1996 Fleetwood (last of the bigger rear-wheel drive caddies). The 9000PRO will even fit nicely in the trunk. Drive a Cadillac for a month, you'll never want any other car.

Remember, when it comes to cars, bigger is better. Surviving an impact with SUV's, Vans, and Trucks is almost a sure thing in a nice big Cadillac. In fact, my 76 Eldorado weighs 4,979 pounds without a driver. A 50 mile an hour head-on collision with just about anything will result in shredding the opposition.

My son hit a Honda about a year ago. It was demolished, completely crushed and totaled. The accident damaged a chrome decal on our Cadillac Sedan DeVille - that's all. Not a scratch, dent, nothing. Well, there was a little of the Honda's paint on our bumper (but it came right off). So, I stopped at the Caddy dealer and picked up another decal for about $15.00.

Well Scott, there you go . . . problem solved. That's why they call me "Stevizard, the wonderful wizard". Remember, bigger is better.

Hi guys,

I never saw/heard the SD1, but I'm sure within a few days I'll order one !
Because the X1 NEVER let me down in 2 years
I have faith in Solton an as far as I know the current (Italian) Solton keyboards have an excellent reliability reputation.
(The KN2k, KN3k and the KN5k gave me more problems than the X1 ever did)

Only a few software updates were needed to fix some minor X1 problems. The KN's needed many !

Scott : Give it a try and buy the SD1 .... !!

Just a matter of time and within a few days, after 3 or 4 gigs, you will be a Pro-solton musician...... ;-)
You will get over the 'chord recognition problem'

Kind regards,

(P)ROel

I would certainly not like if yamaha would move the wheels to the top!
This is one of the reasons I don't like the Solton.

Hi Roel,

Re: "You will get over the (Solton SD-1)chord recognition problem"

Yes I could easily alter my keyboard playing style to playing only "basic" stock chord voicings to meet Solton's chord recognition limitations, but this definitely limits the professional chord sounds that you can create as a pianist playing on an arranger keyboard. I am indeed very impressed with many of the SD-1's new features and sound improvements (especially the acoustic piano), but I still continue to find its' chord recognition problem a serious limitation for a pro piano player who wants to play the arranger keyboard in a two hand jazz/blues influenced comping style.

Roel, I am definitely NOT anti-Solton. In fact, quite the contrary (especially after auditioning the SD-1). I just WISHED Solton could "see the light" in the chord recognition dept and follow Technics & Yamaha's lead. I think if Solton implements the chord recognition features that both Yamaha & Technics already support, that Solton would then have the potential of broadening its' appeal to professional seasoned keyboard combo players as well. Solton has the potential (as evidenced by the SD-1) to compete and possibly overtake the industry giant, Yamaha in the arranger keyboard dept, but this can ONLY happen if (Solton) listens to the needs of their customers. I am really curious to find out if Sandro at Solton will respond to my request (via George Kaye) for rootless chord recogniton or not. Because being able to play professional sounding chord voicings is such an important part of my playing style & the associated sound it accomplishes, I just cannot live with the SD-1's chord recognition limitations. If the people at Solton (or ANYONE here on this board) can tell me just ONE good reason they decided to implement the chord recognitions they chose instead of the ones both Yamaha, Technics, and other pro players play in common practice, then please tell me NOW. I personnally think some guy who isn't even a keyboard player came up with those chord recognitions (based on music theory alone, not actual playing). I mean is there ANYONE on this board who actually has used the chords that Solton set forth for its' associated chords recognized? If so, please come forward NOW.

Just in case anyone is still interested (yeah right), here is a link to the letter I sent to Sandro (Solton) outlining the specific chords and associated chord recognitions I am requesting.
http://www.synthworld.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/001167.html

Scott


[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 02-13-2001).]

Interesting. I have not had ANY problems with my Technics KN5000 in the almost 3 years of regular gigging.

Scott

Hello Scott,
I received a call from Ricky Lawson last week ( M.Jackson's drummer , Phil Collins drummer, Steely Dan's drummer ) . I received a call from Brian Simpson ( J.Jackson's keyboardist ). They are very interested in the SD1 . They are interested more in how to apply the awesome "live" drums to there studio recordings. They are interested in just having access to the authentic sounds of the SD1 .
So, there are many PRO musicain's (non-combo)who have been exposed to the SD1 and like it.
Dan O .
The keyboard hasn't even hit the streets yet . Very few people have been exposed to the Sd1. Only dealers at the Namm show and other artist like yourself . Perhaps they will adjust the chord recoginition. We really won't know until it starts to arrive.
If it is not fixed, don't buy it.

Hi all,

I am no dealer but I'm pretty sure within a few weeks I will be a SD1 enthousiast !

I ordered the SD1 and the Benelux distributor promised the first SD1's for the Netherlands in March.

Roel

[This message has been edited by Roel (edited 02-15-2001).]

Actually Scott.... I would much prefer the chords you said they should change. I qoute.......

"Currently your arranger keyboard's (including the SD-1) chord recognition table interpretes the following notes (played as a chord from left to right) as:
(F - A - C - E) : Fmaj7
(F - C - E) : Fmaj7
(F - B - E) : Fmaj7b5
(E - A - D) : A sus
(B - F - A) : F 5b"

In my style of playing (mostly praise and worship and rock/soft rock) I would much prefer these notes be interpreted as they are now, which I think (note the "I") is much more useful than such chords as *13 and *69 chords. Of course I don't use an arranger keyboard, but if I did... I would want it the first way. Maybe the solution would be a button that can change between modes or a way to tell the keyboard how to interpret certain chords (a user-assignable chord recognition table)

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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Hi John,

I of course agree that (F-A-C-E) should & must be recognized as Fmaj7, but WHY does (F-C-E) ALSO have to be recognized as Fmaj7?

John, how often (if at all) do you ever play an Fmaj7b5? If I did ever need to, I certainly would never voice that chord without including the all important 3rd of the chord (note: A). If a pianist ever wanted to play Fmaj7b5, they would NEVER play (F-B-E) as it is missing the "all important" color tone (maj/minor tonality) 3rd of of the chord.

The (E-A-D) voicing admittedly has a dual function and I can see where this voicing might be commonly used for for playing Asus. It just so happens that this (E-A-D) voicing is also a very popular piano comping voicing for C6(9) as well.

As far as F5b is concerned, I think this is an essoteric chord at best. I assume that this symbolizes an F triad with a flatted fifth. Does ANYONE really play this chord at all? I certainly haven't run across it in any of my MANY (hundreds of) fake books/charts. This chord voicing is instead, a very popular (rootless) voicing for G7(9), popularly played by pianists when playing classic R&B-Soul where the 9th is commonly played. John, you say that you play praise worship/soft rock music. Can you tell me a specific song where F5b comes up? And if so, would you actually want to play (F-B-E) as a voicing for this chord? I mean, where's that all important note A (the 3rd of the chord)?

In all my years as a keyboard player, I don't remember coming across a chart with Fmaj7b5, or F5b. If I ever did, I certainly would NEVER use the voicings that Solton assigned them because they lack the ALL IMPORTANT 3rd (color tone) of the chord.

In conclusion, I agree (with you John) that the best solution might be for keyboard arranger manufacters to come up with a "user programable" feature which allows us the player, to setup/customize our own custom chords & related voicings which best meet our indiviual playing styles/needs. In fact, this EXACT feature is already available on the "newest top of the line model" Lowery brand Organ (essentially a full sized electronic Organ version of a portable arranger keyboard). This new Lowery Organ feature is winning acclaim by keyboard professionals worldwide so I hope the arranger keyboard manuafacers will follow suit by implementing this feature.



Scott
San Francisco Bay Area, CA

John???? Where'd you get my name was John???? Or is that just from my sig????

About the chords..... Most praise and worship music is built around simple easy to play chord changes that can readily be learned... so I don't run into bMaj7 or b5 chords that much.... I can see your point there.
But I have to disagree with you on the Fmaj7 having both fingerings (F-A-C-E and F-C-E) I would prefer to be able to leave out the third to make changes (and inversions) easier and quicker. And I definitely would prefer the Asus inversion over C6(9)...... *sus chords are very common in P&W, especially going between *sus and normal chords instead of just 4 beats of the base chord.
So... to each his own.... I think definitely the BEST way for any company to head would be user-definable chord tables..... one more thing, where DID "John" come from (I'm just curious)

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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[This message has been edited by KeyboardFreak (edited 02-15-2001).]

Hi Keyboard Freak,
Sorry about mixing you up with one of Jesus' Disciples. I guess I had mistakenly called you John because it seemed more natural to associate than the name "Keyboard Freak". I guess I could have called you Paul, Peter, Mark, Luke, James, Matthew .... but then again even Jesus' Disciples had nicknames (Peter was Jesus' nickname for Simon, right?). BTW, Keyboard Freak, if you don't mind, you got me curious now, what is your 'real' name?

Scott

I'm pretty sure you're right about Peter.... No offense, but I prefer to remain pretty anonymous if I can so........... John will do though if I just NEED a name in the future.

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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Hey, I'm involved in Praise and Worship music a lot, and would like to ask if anyone else in this field has made a choice btwn purchasing the Yamah9000pro or Solton SD-1, and what their criteria and observations were? I just bought an SD1 today, and used to use a Roland E-86. One feature I really need is the ability to create a spontaneous chord progression during worship, then loop it, and add various instruments live to build the impact and effect. Now with the vocalization technology I can just imagine the power to touch people's emotions in a live worship setting. Anybody out there have some comments about any of this? ~Steve K

Uncle Dave,
You are invited to Baltimore for a steak dinner and to try the SD1 . dano

hey Dave ,

If you go to Baltimore let me know I wanna come too, you can have steak, I'll go for the Steamed Crabs!! :>)

No more clams?
I am disappointed!
:-(

To Donny,Fran and Uncle Dave,
It would be my pleasure to treat all of you to Dinner ! I am really curios to get your impressions on the SD1 .
My store is located 10 miles west from 95 & I695 interchange . dano
PS...Tuesday or Thursday or Saturday are best . If you can make it a little after lunch , you could hang out in the afternoon and mess with the SD1 . We'll hit Dinner later that day . Go back after Rush hour .

My comparatively lowly, ancient PSR-7000 has that feature (record a chord sequence, then build on it), so I’m pretty sure the 9000 and 9000pro would as well! I simply record a chord sequence into a Multi-Pad, then play the Multi-Pad with Repeat On, then either switch Accompaniment variations to build up, or start off with, say, Bass and Rhythm LEDs on only in my Accompaniment Arranger section, then add Pad, Chord, and Phrase as desired, or any combination of the two techniques. Why could not a PSR-9000 do this?