The ideal trio, playing bass with left hand

I'm still messing around with bandmates and it's a struggle. Yep, might give up and be OMB. BUT... if I could find a couple of players, there are benefits of working with others.

I have also been searching for a DUO partner. A keyboard player who could also play guitar, that would be ideal. We could use tracks or auto-accompaniment. I also play guitar and keys. However, I really like live drums. Nothing like that oomph.

A bass player is hugely helpful, giving that bottom end AND rhythm. BUT... I was thinking, instead of a TRIO of me on guitar, bass and drums... it would be better to have me on guitar, KEYS, and drums. Because keys can do almost anything. PLUS... many of the songs I do have/need an organ or piano in the mix.

So, bass lines, that's the issue. Now, I mean WITHOUT using tracks... if I could, I would rather do this TRIO thing live. I could do tracks or auto-accompaniment on solo or duo jobs.

Can you play bass lines with your left hand? Is this an unusual skill or do you think many people could do this?

Or, any comments on the ideal TRIO makeup.

Again, my focus is original music and as for genre, it's all over the map but heavy on what I call country-rock. Country, acoustic-rock, folk, country blues. But for "regular" gigs where you have to play covers, I have to play more rock-oriented stuff. Even r&b stuff.

P.S. I could add more players and accomplish what I want but if I could do it with just THREE people, that would be cool.

Left Hand bass is my favorite way to play.....even as a OMB. It's not only possible, but PREFERABLE in many ways because it really keeps teh groove together. The bass lines and the chords worl together, they "kick" together and provide a unique, fresh arrangement each time you sit down to play. The bass is the SOUL of the arrangement, and is a BLAST to lay down in real time.
Get a player that listens to and compliments the drummer, and you'll have a great time together. There will be almost no need to reherse, because the piano, bass and drums will be right there. You just have to add the guitar "fluff" on top. Sounds like fun - good luck in your search!

Of course it's possible...the Doors did it...Jimmy Smith, Richard "Groove" Holmes and all those great old B3 players did it, and most importantly, almost everyone that does sequences does it. If you listen to any arranger, baselines were generally done playing left hand bass.

At first, when you play left hand bass live it's kind of like patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time, but you eventually get in synch.

Russ

Well, I certainly know it's possible since I've heard guys do it, I just wondered if it's a pretty simple thing for a decent keyboardist. I'm not good enough to do it. Then again, I'm not very good at all!

Thanks for the info. Anyone else?

Really? There were four guys. They didn't have a bass player?

I too enjoy taking a good LH walk (on the keyboard). Unfortunately, on Yamaha arrangers, it's not possible to play & trigger auto accomp chords in the right hand, freeing up the left hand to play bass lines. This is a very popular piano player comping style. and sorely missed on Yamaha arrangers. The only time I'm able to do the left hand bass line thing (on my Tyros) is with auto accompaniment turned off, or with auto accompaniment drums only. I hope Yamaha will seriously consider adding a right hand chord (triggering) option on their next arranger (Tyros 2?), as I believe Korg & other brand arrangers already include this feature.

Scott

Playing left hand bass is the way to go. But another possibility, especially since you also play guitar, is to play foot bass - same concept as left hand, but the keys are a lot bigger. As an organist first, I still play foot bass and left hand bass. It's great when you're playing piano and can play a string bass with yyour feet.

I just so happen to be considering putting my MidiStep pedals up for auction. You'd also need a basic sound generator (MIDI'd up to the pedals). If you're interested, drop me a line.

I second Scott's wish! I love to play LH bass lines (with RH comping) when in a duo or trio, with or without drums, but sadly, with the auto-accompaniement OFF. I think at least Korg allows to trigger chords from the right hand. This would really open new possibilities to our playing styles! -- José.

I play left hand bass on the keyboard all the time. And as UD points out, it really adds the LIVE touch and synchronization to the music. It adds that extra accents and punch a lot. I usually jack up the left hand volume the highest level along with drums and keep the main and layer voice lower.

I use the drum rythms only without the accompaniment. And I tell you, I am NOT missing a thing without those other stuff going on. My right hand does the comping with pianos, layered strings and occassionaly throw in solid guitar voice, brass, sax, whatever to spice things up.

Everything is TIGHT !!!

No, the Doors had Jim Morrison, a guy on guitar (SG Standard), a drummer and a keyboard player who played a Farfisa (uck)
and left-handed bass on a 13 note Rhodes bass keyboard unit. That left-handed keyboard bass really defined their sound.I used to use one in pre-historic (before B-3) times. The Doors (minus Morrison, of course) are touring again with the same lineup. Look at old footage and you'll see the Rhodes unit to the left of the organ, slightly elivated above the keyboard.


Russ

Rhodes bass ..... snuf, snif...... brings a tear to my eye. I LOVED my gear in the 70s.

Yeah, duh, I can't believe I never thought of that. Morrison just sang.

UD may have a better memory than me, but I believe Felix from the Young Rascals and Steve Winwood also pimarily used left-handed B-3 bass.

Trio work with a strong guitar or horn lead player is easier than playing a duo with a strong mix of instrumentals. Keeps you on your toes, is a work-out, particularly if you do a lot of up tempo jazz selections, but extremely satisfying.

Let's keep those left hands "walkin".

russ

Well it's up to me to provide an alternative view again I guess...

Playing bass robs you of one of your most important assets: your left hand. What a beautiful chording instrument it is... but not if it's turned into essentially a monophonic player. If I didn't use SMF's or my arranger to their fullest and still needed bass then I would go the Steve Winwood route - he's doing some amazing stuff with bass pedals currently.

Speaking of which - I don't know why so many of you guys are so adamant about not using midi files. It really takes the guesswork out of a performance, and for me personally it allows me to explore new chording and lead territories everytime I play. I discovered a new right hand riff on stage last night that just confirms this. I know some of you aren't confident with your keyboard abilities but jeez if you lock your left hand into playing bass then IMHO you miss out on the chance to improve your piano skills.

But hey, lots of ways to skin a cat...

LH bass is a great way to go. You can do so much with the bass line playing this way and it really can spice up a song. Auto accomp bass is decent, but again is always limited due to scale recording restrictions. Playing it manually with the left hand allows you to go nuts with it I however prefer to do this on a board with 76 keys. This way you have more room to solo with. I played LH bass a lot with my old PSR-550 and really felt confined with only 61 keys.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 11-19-2004).]

If I play a G, D, Em progression using full piano, my left hand might play G, F#, E. Nice. The auto-arranger wud play G,D,E.
Starkeeper

I don't think we're talking about whether using sequences, auto features or whatever
is the better way of doing things...left-handed bass, for me, at least, allows the maximum flexibility for certain styles and
performances. At jam sessions or when backing outstanding soloists, you can listen and respond to the performance of the soloist, extend the length of the tune, change arrangments on the fly, etc.

I don't use sequnces at all and use the arranger feature about 50% of the time on solo jobs; usually in a dining room.

That works for me and the types of jobs I play. Obviously, that's only my way of doing things.

Do whatever works for you.


Russ

Esh,

You are right about the limitations of playing with LH bass + RH comping/melody. LH bass is just ONE great way to play a keyboard with its own limitations. Playing along with midi files - made with BIAB - is one of my favourite methods of practicing piano. For that I just need a synth with midi file playing capabilities, say an S90. Years ago when I was studying at the Yamaha Electone International School, I learned to play bass with the pedal. I didn't have the time nor the patience to develop this technique well, but managed to play simple bass lines. It's preferable over LH bass, as it opens more possibilities, but requires an investment of time to acquire a decent pedal technique. LH bass is limited in a solo situation, but it's great when interacting with other musicians in a duet or a trio.

-- José.

I saw Stevie Winwood play last year on Austin City Limits and was surprised to see he did all his Bass work with his left hand on a b3. I would have thought he would use the footpedals. I've never seen Felix play but for 30 years now I assumed those guys use pedals.
According to an article I read most jazz players use the left hand and use the pedals as an accent or for slow tunes.


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qqqwq@hotmail.com

You're right, Mike. The ability to walk a bassline with your left hand and tastefully place right hand chords and fills in the "sweet" spot is beautiful thing! Then, for balads, the ability to do inversions and
hold full chords with the left hand and play complementary inversions and lead lines is a classic style I really enjoy.

We have a jazz arts society here, with many active members...many GREAT players. A while back, we had drummers, horn players and others show up for a performance...no bass players.

Everything at these performances is "on the fly" Counting all the solos, we played some tunes for 15 minutes or more.

GREAT FUN!


Russ

Ray Manzarek (not sure of the spelling), played kbs for the Doors, but he also utilized a walking bass (foot).I was fortunate enought to catch them live in Toronto, many moons ago. It was amazing to watch.
There was literally, never a "dull" moment in his playing. Busier than a one legged guy in a butt kickin' contest!
btw...when I saw them he was using a Vox Continental + the Farfisa+ a third unit which I couldn't make out, but it may have been a Hohner. Great show. I never really cared for Morrison too much but Manzarek always impressed me. Might even have been him that slipped me the bug!

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...L

I think playing with left hand or foot bass is becoming a lost art. I don't see many kids today learning that way. With all the computization and software everybody wants to take the shortcut. Including me, my excuse I'm too old(55) to start now, plus don't have the time or dedication. I just want to enjoy.


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qqqwq@hotmail.com

i agree with alot of what you say mike,to play like gerry lee would be awesome but just look at all those years of dedication,i,m quite happy to play 3/4 left hand chord ,and right melody,with the marvelous instruments that are now available,we can enjoy what we do,and make some beautiful sounds,and get a lot of satisfaction,mike

So, again, do you think that being able to do this, play bass with left hand, is fairly common with "decent" keyboard players, whatever that is. Steadily gigging players, put it that way.

You could do it if you have the time and dedication, also you have to think like a bass player. The only way to know is to try.

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qqqwq@hotmail.com

I don't want to do it. I will be playing guitar in a trio. As per the original post, I am asking about the likelihood of finding a keyboard player who can. That is my question. I'm too old to tackle it and can't play that well anyway, I'm a guitarist. I want to hire someone who can.

I agree with the Pro. Get a set of Roland PK-5 pedals a bass module and play left FOOT bass. That way you still have the LH for chords. This is how I do it when I'm playing with our band. When playing solo I use the arranger bass.

Tom

It has been my experience that those guys are few and far between and usually don't suffer from a lack of work offers.
Sorry I got lost off track of the original post.

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 11-19-2004).]

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 11-19-2004).]

I think if you find a guy (girl) who is decent at keyboards then he/she should be able to handle left hand bass. It really only requires a good knowledge of scales and intervals. Rock bass lines, for the most part, are pretty easy; pop too. Jazzy type songs require that walking bass and a person needs to know keys & scales.

If the person you get is no better than you, then why hire them if you could do their job. Again, footpedals are a good possibility.

Playing bass with the left hand should be a skill that any good keyboard player has. Most experience keyboardist should be able to play bass in the left hand. Unless they are exceptionally good with comping, fills and melody, maybe you don’t want them to be a keyboardist in a band.

This deserves a whole thread to itself. I'll start one.

The king of left hand (and feet) bass:

JOEY DeFRANCESCO!!!!

Check him out:
http://www.jazzongranby.com/artists/joey_defrancesco.htm
http://archive.keyboardonline.com/master/joeyd/joeyd.shtml


[This message has been edited by kbrkr (edited 11-20-2004).]

Joey is AWESOME. He sat in with my band when he was about 10 years old. No one knew him than and he TORE up "Misty" at about 205 BPM. Organ RH and Bass LH. I had a drummer on that date. What a gas!