Darn you, Squeak

Well, the VP-550 vocal keyboard (originally posted by SqueakD) just became available (1 only at Musicians Friend) and I just shelled out 1295.99 for one more thing to have to try to master (it gets harder with each year). I won't be posting anything as it would be hard to top that Don Lewis demo. I will, however, post a review to let you know if it's as easy to get good results as he makes it seem. Should arrive in 3-5 business days so hopefully, I'll be blissfully making an idiot of myself by attempting anything vocal. Meanwhile, I'll be scouting out more choral/choir arrangements and trying to get move familiar with "gospel choir" voicings.

chas

Congratulations on your new purchase, sounds like you can get some really nice results from this vocal keyboard once mastered.

Yeah baby! Let me know how that puppy works out for ya I still say that unit is going to make its way into many churches, schools (elementary/middle/highschool), and some colleges and universities--and studios of all types

There's a lot of potential in a keyboard like that. Look forward to your review.

Squeak

Hey Chas,

Did you buy it on sale or return? - It seems like a lot of dosh to fork out on pure speculation although I would love to try one myself.

Have a great time with your new toy - Hope you master it quickly and can be persuaded to record something for us to hear in the future.

Regards - KF

[This message has been edited by KFingers (edited 08-04-2006).]

.....and the real beauty of it is that, at only 49 keys, it's a lot easier to convince your wife that it only cost a "coupla' hunnert" .

chas

Chas, you must originally be from PA! We talk that way here, too!

Tim

[This message has been edited by CoasterTim (edited 08-04-2006).]

Not to be too negative here, but I hope and pray that schools and colleges are the LAST place that keyboards like this appear.......

You don't learn about great choral music by playing it on a keyboard, you learn it by participating in a REAL choir....... I guarantee, from listening to him play, Roland's demonstrator has worked with many great choirs to get that ability. Sure, once out of college or school, there's a use for it, but you don't learn about good voice leading and dynamics, and all the 'tricks' of great gospel and other choir music without participating in a real choir.

I understand what you mean, but keep in mind "sign of the times". Everything's being downsized to save money.

I'm not saying these are going to replace choirs as we know it, but they sure as hell are going to put a dent into the field.

I understand that one can learn best from the choir itself, but these are different times my friend. I can see other venues saving some serious dough when they find out (one person) can "essentially" do the work of an entire choir using this keyboard. Don Lewis's demo is supportive of this. Keep in mind that no matter how great one person is--there are hundreds more like them. Just imagine little Don Lewis's everywhere playing these things

Squeak

Uhh oh....then I could be really screwed here. Luckily, I have no aspirations of becoming a choir director. I'd just like to add some slightly more realistic choir backgrounds to a couple of my (jazz) compositions (think Donald Byrd's "Cristo Redemptor" or perhaps Roberta Flack's "Bridge over troubled waters" with the Harlem Boys Choir). Also, it sounds like it could be a barrel of fun. Also, I sort of agree with Diki but could see it being used to augment or "flesh out" a small church choir (in skillful hands, of course) or perhaps community theatre and the like. What the heck, I can't wait. I feel as though it's one keyboard that you don't have to wait for the next "best thing" 'cause no matter how much they improve it or how realistic they make it, the same dissenting arguments will still apply..."You can't replace a live chorus/choir with a keyboard". Why not? We replaced a live band with a keyboard. Isn't that why we all bought our arrangers in the first place .

chas

I have posted about it once before, in my best friend's wedding i could hear a very good sounding choir. In tune, with good voices and all. Seemed like 4 persons singing.
I thought to myself "ok, this is going to cost him money" and then i realized that while i could HEAR the persons singing, i couldn't actually SEE where they were located.
looking more closely, I spotted the right "chanter" (everyone who's been in a Greek orthodox church will know what I am talking about), singing and touching "something" below his songbook, (this something was under a cloth, hidden from plain view)

I don't know what it was, it had a 3 or 4 octave keyboard (probably little keys). the guy was simply pressing keys and singing at the same time, and beautiful harmonies were produced.
I was amazed.

if that VP roland can do such things, it might be enough reason to buy it so i can see the faces my father will meake when he hears what it can do (he chants sometimes at our church)

IMO If this product would encourage people to play, sing and have fun creating great music and harmonies then I'd love to see it in schools and colleges, after all kids start learning music in schools, so why not introduce them at an early stage to the different aspects of vocal harmonies?

I didn't say this was not for US........ just that schools and colleges need to concentrate on the 'real thing'

Just watched the online demos. Wow, I would absolutely LOVE to have one of these in my home studio!

It would be so cool to be able to lay down choir parts in some of my more ethereal New Age stuff. I've always wanted to write music for films, and having something like this as a composition tool would be incredible I think.

Carrie

Not originally, but spent most of my adult life there (suburban Philly - Media, Glen Mills, Downingtown) plus I went to graduate school at Univ. of PA (Moore School of EE). Aside from being way to proud of the boistrous nature of it's sports fans (snowballing Santa Claus at an Eagles game), it's a great area to live.

chas

This is pretty cool. I just watched the video. It took me a couple of minutes to find the original post by Squeak. Here is the link to the video again in case anyone else needs it. http://rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=771&ParentId=83

I wonder how this compares to the digitech vocalist or to software vocalist type programs?

Richard

I think everyone needs to listen to BOTH demos....... the first is utterly awe-inspiring, the second barely rates as listen-able (in places), and definitely ho-hum the rest.

As always, in the hands of a master, almost anything can sound good, but to be fair, in the hands of Roland's second demonstrator (presumably no slouch, at least in Roland's opinion), this product doesn't sound nearly as innovative.

Kind of reminds me how good SOME demonstrators can make ANY arranger sound, while others can make even the best sound terrible. As always, your mileage may vary......

Diki, I tend to judge the performance of an auto by how it handles on a curvy mountain road, not how it idles in the driveway. Don Lewis demonstrates the POTENTIAL of this keyboard so that at least I know what it is capable of. It seems as though as soon as someone shows any kind of enthusiasm for a piece of equipment, someone else immediately pops up to critisize it, usually without ever having played it or even seen it. It is truly annoying, feeling that you have to justify every purchase to the resident nay-sayer whose mission in life seems to be to dampen your enthusiasm and creat doubt about the wisdom of your latest purchasing decision. I'm not advocating that anyone else buy one. I don't even really give a s--- if anyone else thinks it's a wise purchase, after all, last time I checked, it was MY money that I was spending. Most members respond to another members new purchase with a "Congrats" or "have fun", etc. So I guess my question is, what's your point?

chas

I'm not sure if anyone caught it, but Don Lewis used a really cool feature on the VP-550 in this demo. At one point he pressed a "record" button, sang "swing low, ect", then had that audio phrase looped (live) into his performance. He stopped the live audio loop at one point--and then brought it back at the end of the performace.

It also appeared that he was using a sustain pedal to hold vocal passages as well. I'll be the one to say it cgiles "CONGRATS"! and BIG CONGRATS too. I hope you find great joy in this unit.

Squeak

Thanks, Squeak, and may I say, hearing a good demo and a bad demo on the same equipment says a lot more about the player than the equipment.

chas

Chas....... nowhere in my post will you find ANY criticism of your decision to purchase one of these keyboards, in fact the post wasn't even addressed to you , I've got no idea why you are so upset...... In your hands, it may very well equal, or exceed Don Lewis' sound. But........ in lesser hands (and my point was the Roland seemed to think the second guy talented enough to play it for all the buyers at NAMM) it may not perform as impressively.

All the gushing about Don Lewis' performance led me to believe that a little reality needed to be injected before anyone runs out and buys this without even trying it (and this forum is packed with players who have done EXACTLY that and regretted it later)..........

All I did was to point out the second demo of it, to make sure everyone gets an unbiased opinion. And you make out that it is a criticism of YOUR choice........ Anything but, Chas. You may indeed judge a car by how fast you can make it screech around a mountain road, but you also have to be aware that many drivers are not capable of driving that fast, and how it behaves on the freeway may be relevant..........

Simple: Don't "EVER" buy a keyboard based on how good the demostrater performs with it. I can see your point Diki. Don's performance made Corey's look quite bland (in my opinion).

People should use good judgement and not buy this keyboard just because Don Lewis made it sound good. The board will shine (as will pretty much any keyboard) in the hands of a skilled player.

Squeak

Gosh, Squeak. Did you use to be a political advisor for John Kerry ? Of course Diki is correct in his advice but haven't we heard it all before "try before you buy (sounds like a whine)", "the demo always makes it sound better than it is (or some variation of that)". The point is, this board is populated, for the most part, by 50+ yr. old, mature (somewhat ) adults who, if too dumb to not already know this, deserve whatever they purchase under these circumstances. And what about the person who is unable to audition a new piece of equipment (remember the Tyros2....how many of those puppies were purchased sight unseen). I'm guessing that hearing demos of those Super dooper Articulated voices may have had something to do with that. That's (one of) the purpose of a factory demo; to see if an instrument is CAPABLE of achieving the results you desire (the other is to sell merchandise). So Diki, while your desire to protect us from our uncontrollable gear lust is admirable, my wife already has that base covered. Hey, no hard feelings, man. I know your intentions were good. As is your advice. I just wouldn't waste it on the bunch of gear-crazed spendthrifts that inhabit this board. They aren't going to listen anyway.

Peace,

chas

My position is just that if you buy a keyboard based on what the demostrator does, and then later find yourself unhappy because you can't sound like the demo rep..., then why complain

Really it's quite simple..., what you get out of a keyboard is what you put into it I've heard some players do an injustice to the T2 while other more seasoned players are blowing the roof off with it. Same goes for the G-70, PA1X, and keyboards of all sorts.

I think a good example of what you put in is what you get out is in a Roland Demo I saw on one of their V-Drum sets. The demo rep stated that basically due to the high number of "nuances" used in the kit, that unlike some electric kits, that can hide "less than favorable" playing skills, this particular unit will react exactly like an acoustic kit--meaning if you're a lesser seasoned player, the output result will reflect that. I thought that was a cool way for Roland to say that this kit is designed for "pros".

I've talked to several T2 owners who bought the unit soley because of the SA voices. Which didn't surprise me either, because Yammie used a lot of the T2's promo focused around the SA voices--it was a sales hook

Never worked for Kerry, but did vote for him Don't get me started on Bush

Squeak

Ok, so then you're familiar with the "flop" . Hey, just pulling your chain, man. Truth is, if you're ever down Tampa way, by all means, drop by....maybe you can put down a couple of rythym or guitar tracks for me....just no Country (sorry, man, no offense). No kids, though...can't tolerate them (except my own grands, and even them for only about an hour). In the meantime, I'll be inviting Don Lewis down for some private instruction .

Peace,

chas

PS: Can't we all just get along....probably not .

squeak puts I've talked to several T2 owners who bought the unit soley because of the SA voices. Which didn't surprise me either, because Yammie used a lot of the T2's promo focused around the SA voices--it was a sales hook

One hell of a good sales hook then m8 because the SA sounds are just as good as they promised and the demos Yamaha originally posted, rather than some of the usual bull you see and hear from the arranger manufacturers before public release.

With all do respect, if I'm flopping on on an issue please point it out to me because clearly I'm missing something here.

I'm very supportive of your purchase, and comments I've made haven't been directed at your "purchase itself", but in general.

If you're a skilled player--then naturally watching a demo being performed by another skilled player "can" help in your buying decision. That's to be expected. My comments are directed as "general".

Don's demo is clearly what that board could sound like in the right hands (or even better hands). Naturally a less skilled musician may not produced the quality performace as he did. My general comment is on a whole about people buying based on the demo--with the conception that the "board" is going to make their chops sound great--when clearly it's the person who's actually sitting behind the wheel.

My comment was as a whole on how those who watch these videos then go to buy the product, then get pissed off because they can't make it sound like the demostrater.

Again my comments weren't directed at you cgiles, and if they appeared that way then I apologize.

Squeak

Craig_Uk,
We all buy our boards for different reasons. Peronsally I would never dropped that kind of money soley on a select few voices, but that's just me.

I agree that some of those SA voices are top notch. I won't argue against the quality some of the SA voices--especially the sax--that one is just mouth watering. I still say that regardless, the SA guitar voices are incorrect--and there's a definitive line there because simply the sounds either correct or it's not. Hopefully down the line Yammie will add more fetures to these voices that would allow the user to adjust specific nuances within the voices. Only time will tell for that though.

Squeak

Apology not necessary. Half of what I say is usually tongue-in-cheek. Your job is to figure out which half. Hint....check for smily faces.

chas

Hopefully, chas, after you've mastered the VPP, Roland will hire you to demo it at NAMM, because, if that guy was the best they could come up with........

Sounds like a good gig, but first I'll have to put a contract out on that Don Lewis guy...hey, maybe I could hire Fran, or better yet, Donny; he could whack him over the head with that new G70...or better yet, tie him up and make him listen to it for four straight hours (preferably with OS 1.0) .

chas

Now Donny's going to have to buy another G70 (or even better, an E-80) 'cos a Tyros is just too light to get the job done........

I don't think Don's demo was from NAMM...... this was my main point, I guess - while Roland seem to be able to get a good studio recorded demo for their products, and show off it's amazing capability, the guys that all too often demo them at NAMM, where first the store buyers and later (via Harmony Central, etc.) ALL the buying public get their first chance to hear these instruments played live, have just lately been anything BUT good ambassadors for their products.

Just listen to the guy demonstrating the G70s Guitar Mode at this thread; http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/013688.html . He doesn't begin to show the capabilities of Guitar Mode, yet Roland are paying him!

Roland need to bite the bullet and hire some seriously talented demonstrators if they don't want the public to assume this is all they are capable of. After all, chas, if you had only heard that second, NAMM demo, would you have bought this keyboard?

Highly unlikely. Good point.

chas