Steve Demming or Anyone else Psr2k Line/ Mic Input ..Stereo or Mono?

I need to know, I want to plug in a cd player and have it come out in stereo to 2 speakers......Thanx



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-16-2003).]

Don't quote me, but I think the mic input is a mono hi-z line. Can't check my manual right now, but I'm pretty sure the others will come up with the same answer - I hope, or I'm a real horse's behind.

hi Donny:

Both the PSR2000/2100 & Tyros include a single 1/4" Mono jack only. No stereo inputs. There is a toggle switch which sets the jack input level to mic or line level.

This may prove disappointing for some, but I myself only need to utilize the line input jack to plug my MP3/Mini Disc player into for 'background music' during my breaks, and actually prefer 'mono' sound as this offers the listeners a more impressive constrast when I return, performing 'live' again, and in 'stereo'.

On the subject of the background music played during breaks: As both a vocalist & keyboardist, I generally like to keep my break time background music limited to instrumental style tunes, as well as not including music performed by me.

I'm really curious to hear what type of songs (if any) are played during breaks by other gigging performers here.

Scott

Mic input DEFINATELY MONO. A stereo input jack will not work.

On the subject of break music, like Scott, I do not use any vocals and seldom anything I recorded. Depending on the room and the dynamics I use several different playlists that are grouped into genres such as medium tempo big band swing, BB King type blues, George Benson type jazz, Bob Marley Reggae (no vocal), slow to medium tempo dixie, 60's-70's style ballads...and even a set of Techno and Hip Hop (just in case but, so far used only once at an anniversary party that had ALL ages).

Volume on break music is set below live, playing volume and is intentionally designed as background conversation music rather than foreground dance music.

Some employers prefer no break music between sets.
Eddie

Scott, The PSR 2000's Mic/Line input is "Balanced", ie., a 'Stereo' input. The Line input can be used with an external device, eg., portable CD/MP3 Player that has a Line Out. Run it into the PSR 2000's Line In and you have a Stereo signal to the PSR 2000's speakers.

Eddie, I use a "Balanced" 1/4" Mic Cable Jack that I run into the PSR 2000's Mic/Line In and it works flawlessly. So a 1/4" Stereo "Balanced" Mic Cable WILL work as evidenced by the fact that MINE works.

Best regards,
Mike

PS: I had the same concern about whether the PSR 2000's Mic/Line input was Stereo or Mono so I called Yamaha and they said it was definitely a "Balanced", ie. "Stereo" input connection. Now whether Yamaha Tech support gave me a correct answer or not is maybe up to Steve Deming to clarify for sure but that is what they told me when I called about a year or so ago. Regardless though, my "Balanced" Mic Cable still works flawlessly.

Best regards,
Mike

Mike...
Did you try it with a mic...or another input device?

I bought a $25 monster stereo mic cable and it did not work on either of my PSR2ks.

I saw no designation on the package that said balanced or unbalanced.
Eddie

Hi Eddie. Yes, I use the Mic/Line In on my PSR 2000 with a "Balanced" Stereo "Mic Cable". I Run my Shure Beta 87A Mic through a Blue 'Kiwi' Mic Cable that runs to a Rolls Phantom Power Adapter and then from there I output a Monster "Balanced" Stereo Mic cable to my PSR 2000's Mic/Line Input connector. I have no idea why yours didn't work unless the Cable was BAD from the Factory. I am assuming your Mic cable was configured with a Mic Input Connector on one end (to your Mic) and taylored down to a 1/4" connector on the other end of the Mic cable (to go to your PSR Mic/Line Input)???. My Blue Kiwi cable has the XLR connector on it which goes into the Rolls Phantom Power Adapter. PS: I use a 'Gold' Series Connector on my Monster Mic cable but the Non-Gold connectors should work fine too.

Best regards,
Mike

Mike,

I must be missing something. Microphone cables are either balanced with three connector XLRs or unbalanced with 1/4 inch phone jacks. I have never heard of a "stereo" microphone cable and see no advantage in one if there were such a thing. As far as I know there is no such thing as a balanced 1/4 inch microphone cable. You've been sold some bad information. Eddie is correct, the 2000 has a single 1/4 inch unbalanced microphone input.

Donny, why do you need to know? Is it time to dump the Roland?

[This message has been edited by Tom Cavanaugh (edited 07-16-2003).]

I want to know if you can plug in a stereo device ...CD/Mp3 player to the 2k....and have it come outin Stereo controlled by the master vol control. My 9k had stereo AUX in/outs for this .

If you read the 2000 manual carefully there is no mention of a stereo mic but very strong indications that it is mono. I suspect that it is similar to the 740. This has a 'stereo' jack in that it has tip, ring and sleeve. However, the sleeve is grounded, the tip is input and the ring is open but has a switch to ground and shorts the input until a plug is inserted. There is a single mono amplifier with the mic setting giving a gain of 5 over the line setting by inserting a further amplifier stage. I have a genuine Yamaha Vocal Harmony mic (an Audix) which has a balanced XLR connector but the cable has a mono jack plug on the other end. The cable connects one side of the mic to the sleeve. So the connection for any mic is unbalanced with the tip and sleeve as the conductors and the ring doing nothing.

Bryan

Hello Tom,

Actually, they do make a balanced, 3-wire, 1/4 inch phono jack.



It's all in the wiring and the physical make-up of the jack/plug.

Sorry Donny...Can't answer your question....GeneralMusic owner here (I'm pretty sure GM's input jacks are stereo).

mike

Mike, thanx awesome diagram ...I will get a definite answer somewhere soon I hope :>)

donny...
Stereo input devices can run thru the PSR2K one of two ways:
1. 1/4" Mic/line input set to line.
2. RCA jacks inputs.

Why the Stereo mic cable doesn't work still baffles me, as well as the folks at Monster.
Based on Mike's diagram I see no reason why it shouldn't work...but I tried it on two different boards and it will not take the mic signal.

Eddie

There's one way to check it out definitely. Connect some wires to a stereo jack plug, connect the sleeve to ground and inject a signal from an oscillator into the tip and ring connections and see what comes out. Or failing that, connect an unbalanced mic to tip and sleeve and another to ring and sleeve and see which one works. You could also try connecting a mic between ring and tip but I somehow don't think it will work. And if it works the way I think it does, it's no wonder the stereo mic cable doesn't work as the ring connector isn't going anywhere. You could solve it once and for all by getting the service manual. I get them from Yamaha Canada for $15Can and they come by return of Purolator.

Bryan


[This message has been edited by Pilot (edited 07-16-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Pilot (edited 07-16-2003).]

Eddie, the RCA connectors on the PSR2K are strictly "Output", ie, "Auxiliary Output". The only inputs on PSR2K are the Mic/Line In Jack and the 'Midi In' of course.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 07-16-2003).]

Absolutely right Mike. I stand corrected.
Eddie

Hey Donny,

Got another image for ya....



Disregard the text that refers to insert cables. The key here is, "Can you feel two 'clicks' when you insert your mic cable?"

Can you insert your cable almost all the way in like the top illustration?

mike

Donny - it's Mono. It's always gonna BE mono.

That is not necessarily so UD. If you have a Mic that is Mono then of course you will get a Mono signal from the Mic even though the Mic input may be Balanced. Mono in Mono out. But if you have a "Stereo" Mic and you plug it into a balanced Stereo Mic Input then you will get a Stereo signal out. The only requirement is that you have a "Stereo" Mic and a Balanced 'Stereo' Mic Input and of course at least 2 speakers. The only problem with that is that Stereo Mics can be very expensive although there are a few now on the market that are selling for under a Grand.

Also if you have the Balanced "Stereo" 'Line Input' you could, as I stated in my previous post, hook up an external device such as a Portable CD/MP3 player (with the various line adapters to go into a 1/4" Line input like the PSR2K has) and be able to play your CD's/MP3's, etc. through the PSR2K and it would be a Stereo signal as well. Plus I am almost certain you could then route that signal to either the Main Outputs on the PSR2K, to go to an External sound source or through the Aux Outputs to an external sound source as well and as long as you have at least 2 separate speakers (monitors, etc.) you run them to; or a single Keyboard Amp, etc., with 2 enclosed speakers and a 2 way Stereo Crossover you would get the Stereo signal also albeit it wouldn't be a very enhanced Stereo effect like you would get with 2 separate speakers (monitors, etc.) that could be placed several feet apart from each other.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 07-16-2003).]

Oh Man .....Im so confused !~!!@!@@$##$$%^^&&**(*((* so whats the answer?

Talk to Yamaha!

Peter

Steve Demming is Yamaha...correct?

You guys are driving me nuts--I'll let you know in five minutes.

Gary

Hey Donny,

I know just what you need....Another image.

I gave some thought to UD's comment and did a little reading.....I'm tending to agree with him. Your input jacks on your keyboard are probably mono. They might be balanced (that's what the single-click, double-click test might have answered) but they're probably mono. Although in all fairness, we wouldn't really know without seeing a schematic (or hearing from Steve Demming).

Here's another image to look at:



This is a schematic of a balanced, mono, input channel in your average mixer. Notice the Line In jack right below the Mic jack. This is a balanced jack (positive phase of the audio signal = tip, negative phase of the audio signal = ring, and ground = sleeve) going to a differential amplifier (the first triangle)(the audio signal flows left to right). Notice the output of this device...One channel, mono (single-ended). From there the signal goes through the sub-bass filter, then the 3-band EQ circuits, then the next stage of amplification, the gain stage, then what?....The PAN pot. This is where they split the mono signal, sending equal parts to the final output stages (left and right)(depending on where you have your POT knob set, of course). So you see, this is not true stereo...I'll call it "pseudo stereo". Having a balanced input connector and using a balanced cable does not automatically mean you've got true stereo. It all depends on how they designed the circuitry.

If this schematic does reflect the circuitry in the keyboard, then true stereo would require you to connect the left channel of your input to one jack (1) and setting the pan pot to full left, connecting the right channel of your input to the other jack (2) and setting the pan pot to full right.

I take back my statement about the GeneralMusic WK8's input jacks being stereo. They're mono. Thanks Dave!

mike

OK, here's the deal. The jack itself is a stereo jack, however, the input is set up for mono. It's not a ballanced input--it's just a stereo jack wired with a mono hook-up. Kind of a weird way to do things, and I sure don't know why Yamaha did this, but I tried every wiring configuration and then went to my stereo mixer, fired a mic through it, connected both outputs through a stereo jack (In/out effects cable) and the best I can come up with is mono--not stereo. Sure would like to see a schematic of the board, but unless there's something wrong with my boards, I usually don't take them apart. If anyone has an up to date schematic, I would sure like to see it.

Cheers,

Gary

Mike ,


thanx for the excellent illustration.
Now Im on my 3rd Excedrin :>)

Gary,

Thanx so much for trying to get an answer....oh man what did I start?

Gary, you've confirmed what I said - it looks just like the 740. A stereo jack using tip and sleeve with the ring going nowhere.

Bryan

Dave is right.. mono will always be mono..you can split the signal, but it will still be two mono and not stereo..

Mike your one illustration is right out of the Mackie manual..right?

Good morning Fran,

Yes sir, right out of the 1202 VLZ manual.


mike

Donny,

Yes, Steve Demming is from Yamaha, but he obviously is not seeing or answering your post. Why not just call Yamaha direct and get the correct information and put an end to this guessing game before fists start to fly?!

Peter

My guess is that Steve Deming is probably in Nashville at NAMM preparing for the opening on "Friday" and he will probably stay for the whole 3 day Run then fly back Sunday night so he can make it home in time to get back to the Salt Mines by Monday.

That's right "1" day and counting till Summer NAMM.

NOTE: Or Steve could be "hovering" over these posts and 'this' one in particular and gleefully laughing to himself at all our consternation, frustration and mind numbing answers to a "Simple" question.

I probably live closest of any of our SZ Members to Yamaha's Corporate Headquarters in California except maybe one. But I already called them over a year ago about this same question and they already gave me an answer! You mean to say they already said it was a Balanced Stereo Input???

Yes,.... 'Donny' I did... But I am only telling you what they told me.

Best regards,
Mike

I didnt mean to start an agressive contrversey over this semmimngly simple question. I'm sorry if anyone is offended. But I will gladly remove the thread if yiu want to eliviate tension?

Now don't get paranoid Donny.. Hold back on that trigger finger will ya' My post was all in jest and in amusing forethought. As you can see by all my smilies, etc. But Yammie really did tell me over a year ago when I called them that it 'was' a balanced input. And because of the "Line In" being integrated into the Mic Input it is almost a given that it is a "Stereo" Jack as well.

Steve Deming, where are you when we need you??? Oh yes, you're in Nashville getting ready for NAMM. That's right. Or is it???

Best regards,
Mike

Ok Ok Ok I'll be eagerly awaitng the Final Answer to the Mystery asap.....

I never cease to be amazed at our ability to take a simple question and turn it into a war, and I've been reading this post with some amusement and now frustration so I feel obliged to throw my understanding of the situation into the frame.

My thoughts: Its a mono channel, unbalanced input, use a mono jackplug.

Heres why:

Mono/Stereo: I feel the answer to the question lies in the fact that the manual totally fails to suggest that the microphone input is anything other than a mono signal. Also harmonisers like mono input rather than stereo. Therefore it is mono, because Yamaha would not miss the opportunity to plug such a useful facility as a stereo input. If this was the case, you could use the 2k as a Submixer for a slave module and then not have to use a mixer at all!

The input to the PSR2000 must be unbalanced; again the lack of any mention to the contrary in the manual is adequate proof to me for the same reason, it's too useful a capability not to be mentioned. If the input jack on the 2k is shown to be stereo I vote for the opinion that the "ring" will either be grounded (which would be best) or left hanging. It may be cheaper/easier from a mass production viewpoint for Yamaha to use stereo sockets everywhere even for mono inputs and outputs.

ps. Tom Cav: You don't get many balanced microphone leads with stereo jacks on the end, because the XLR connector is SOOOOOO much more robust; but I have seen it when using budget / small mixers without room for XLR sockets.

I'll check it tonight and let you know for certain if it works with a stereo input. I have never tried it and don't believe it is stereo, but I will find out for certain.
DonM

John,

I agree. You can wire a 1/4 inch stereo jack and plug to use the wires from a balanced cable. The right number of connections are there. I've never seen it done but if you have I believe you.

I have seen a stereo microphone used for recording in an auditorium or hall type of location. In that case the L and R point in different directions. To use a stereo microphone for vocal use in an arranger would be useless and to no advantage. There is no L/R seperation from one singer.

I have checked the Monster Cable web site and also the site of some sellers of Monster Cable products and have found NO "Balanced" Monster "Stereo" Mic cables with 1/4 inch ends in their product line. I stand by my comment that Idatrod (Mike) was sold a bill of goods and probably paid through the nose for a product that offers him no advantage over lessor priced products.

What I don't get is why eveyone that wants break music just doesn't load up a half dozen songs on floppy and just play them through their board and they will have their stereo out?......Or mix and splice six songs into one tune and play that through the song feature?

And for all of you that complain about carrying too much gear you can leave your little player at home and save the 3 seconds set up time and 10 ounces of weight. And if the floppy is too much to carry load the tune on the hard drive. I don't think the extra notes will add any weight to the keyboard either.....though I could be wrong. Maybe someone could weight their board before and after loading a song and tell us.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Terry: The PSR2000 & Tyros floppy/hd only supports playback of midi files. For my break music, I play background style cover tunes. What I do is convert from CD to MP3 format so they play in my 'ultra tiny' portable 192 mg capacity MP3 player (2.4 oz, 2-1/2 x 3-1/2 inches) and which holds scores of songs.





Hi Donny: I thought I had 'already answered' the question initially near the top of this thread (2nd respondent), but guess it wasn't made as clear as I hoped.

As I mentioned before, I connect my stereo MP3 (Rio 500) player (via its single stereo headphone output jack) into the single mic/line input jack on either my Tyros or PSR2000 keyboard (for background music during breaks) , and the resultant sound output thru both keyboards is always 'MONO'. Both ends of the stereo cable consist of a stereo (tip-ring sleeve) plug . I hope this clears up all the confusion.

Scott

Scott, I understand what your doing with your MP3 player via the 2k, but for my shows I need a seperate Stereo L/R, signal which cannot be obtained on the 2k.....I used to do it on the Aux L/R inputs on my 9k though which has this. So I will just have to keep running my audio output from my laptop to my stereo rack mixer channel to achieve Stereo on my Mp3's thru the mains.
Thanx for your info and everyone else too.

Scott,
I am quite aware the boards playback midi....

1. There are plenty of midis available for free on the net.

2. You guys are pros that make your living playing music...I would think you guys could come up with 15 minutes worth of music to play as backround music. Perhaps read some sheet music and play it into the sequencer. Or am I wrong?
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Terry...
Speaking just for myself, I do it both ways, but most often prefer using MP3s on break for several reasons.

Between sets I will often load a different set of user styles into memory and set up the next registration I plan to use or tweak an existing registration that I just played and didn't sound quite right. You can't do that while a midi is playing.

With the MP3 player you can make playlists of songs, on the fly, in the order you want them to play. I tried doing that in advance at home with midi, but most always find there is something in the midi list I wish I had or had not included.

And, like Scott, I use some cover material that I have not been able to find in midi.

But, I also use some real easy listening midi during breaks at low key parties that work just great.
Eddie

hi Terry, the reason I prefer background style MP3/CD cover songs vs personally created midi files (during the break) is that it:

1) better distinguishes between & provides constrast to what's presented during the show itself.

2) provides the audience recognizable background style 'cover tunes' which best gives them the permission to talk (more loudly) and move about the room (more freely).

I want my break music to be different than what I do in my show. It's only function is as background filler. I prefer playing CD cuts (not arranger midi file interpretations) that the general public typically hears in public areas: shopping malls, supermarkets, elevators, etc.

Scott

I just recieved a copy of the schematic diagram for the input of the PSR-740, which according to the tech guy at the local music store, is identical to the 2000. Guess what--it has a stereo jack that is wired for mono use--just like I said earlier.

OK! Kill the messenger!

Gary

Gary ,

Thanx for helping clear things up on this mysterious topic.

You Da Man!!!

Scott,
Ok, whatever.
Terry


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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 07-18-2003).]

It just doesn't sound logical that they would even put in a "Stereo" jack to begin with and then only wire it for "Mono". What would be the purpose of putting in a "Stereo" Jack in the first place if its only purpose was a "Mono" signal? It just doesn't make any sense. I still think there is a fly in the soup with the reponse that Gary gave. First of all the PSR 740 is not a PSR 2000. It was a 'revolutionary' step up when they produced the PSR 2000 compared to the 740 not just a little blip on the radar screen with no consequential or significant advancement or improvement. The PSR 2000 is another "breed" of animal not a close or even a distant cousin to the 740 imo. Another thing is: we all know that most of these salespeople in these Music Stores like Sam Ash, Guitar Center, etc. don't know much about anything a lot of times when it comes to technical knowledge of the products they sell. They usually give a very flipant answer to even the most basic technical question you put to them. A lot of times they just egg you on so they get you to buy from them on the same day if they can. They make a commission on what they sell, so a lot of times they're just trying to pacify you so you'll make the plunge and buy from them or simply agree with you because they want you to feel comfortable and that they're on your side, etc., and could care less about facts and figures and all that technical mumbo jumbo. I know because I experience it almost every time I go into GC.

Like I said before, probably the only person that can settle it for sure is our very own Steve Deming and he is probably looking in on all of this and laughing so hard his side hurts and is letting the dice roll as they may. [Or he could be at NAMM as I stated earlier and won't be back at the office until Monday.] Or he could be on vacation.

PS: You know, they really should put more effort into those User Manuals they include with the Keyboards. It sure would make things a lot easier on everybody and put an end to these needless speculations that they generate because of the lack thereof of complete Keyboard specifications, how-to's, and other pertinent information that is vital and necessary for the owner to know about the Keyboard he or she just purchased. Will it happen though??? You and I will need to convince the Manufacturers of that necessity and they have to be willing to provide their customers with what they want and need and deserve before it will.

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 07-18-2003).]

It's mono. People here have attested to that. They performed actual tests. What kind of proof do you need? The guy on the phone didn't know what he was talking about. It's mono.
It's mono.
It's mono.
BTW- What do Mono and herpes have in common?
....well, you can get mono from snatchin' a kiss..........

Sorry Mike--it's mono. The tech guy at the local music store said he just replaced the line/mic jack in a 2000 just two weeks ago and it's a stereo jack that's wired in mono. He said that all the 1/4-inch jacks were stereo jacks, even though most are wired in mono. The reasoning behind this is the simplicity of using all the same jacks on the circuit board and just wiring them to fit the application. I've had the 740 open a dozen times and all the 1/4-inch jacks are stereo as well. The guy you talked with probably had no idea whether it was mono or stereo, which is often the case when you're calling for technical information on electronic components. He probably assumed that because the keyboard had a stereo output that the line in was also stereo. It would have been nice to wire it that way, but they obviously did not.

Donny--pull the thread!

Gary

I do not see a need to pull this thread, really it was a fruitful discussion and has some value as the answer was finally derived.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 07-19-2003).]

Terry...
I agree. It certainly answered the question as to why a stereo mic cable I purchased did not work ... and how to solve the problem.
Eddie

I have to remind you all again that my "Stereo" Mic Cable DOES work on my PSR 2000. So don't disregard getting a Balanced Mic Cable to use in conjunction with your PSR or other Keyboard if you want to because it should work without any problems. Plus you could use the cable to patch into other "Balanced" sources when not using it with your PSR or other Keyboard. Just a thought.

I agree with Terry and Eddie that the thread has served a useful purpose so there should be no reason to delete it. Especially since we haven't yet heard from Yamaha's Steve Deming. And even if and when we do, the thread should still stay because then that info if and when Steve replies will always be in the database for future reference.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 07-19-2003).]

There's a very good reason why your stereo mic cable works. If the stereo mic is wired up such that the tip is one side and the ring is the other with the sleeve common, you'll get exactly what Yamaha planned - a mono mic directed to both channels which can give a stereo effect. They don't list the Vocal Harmony kit in the catalog but it's the same for all keyboards - a mono mic. And as I wrote in a previous post, they use a stereo jack so that the ring connector can be used as a switch to short the input to ground to prevent noise if no mic is plugged in and the input volume is turned up.

Bryan

I'm sorry Bryan, but a mono INPUT signal will never give a stereo effect, no matter how many channels it is routed to. It's the same signal at each side of the jack, and they are both summed anyway.
This is getting so redundant.
It's mono.
It's always gonna BE mono.
Ask Ray Romano.
Mano y mano.
However you discuss it .... it's gonna be (say it with me .......)

MONO.

Ok....I'm finally going to input something here....Dave is 100% correct. I do not care what you do or what type of cable you use....MONO is MONO, period. If the jack is wired mono, you will get mono.

Mono< = mono> one may be able to get a mono signal to go to 2 speakers but that equals up to 2 mono signals not a stereo signal. What it will be is the same sound at each speaker, not stereo.

Dave, hum the tune will ya' please and I'll sing along.....mono is .....
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

UD, you'll notice I said stereo 'effect'. Maybe I should have put it in quotes the first time. What I meant was pseudo stereo, which is a well known stereo 'effect'. By manipulating the DSPs on my PSR I can get a stereo 'effect' from the mono mic. Sounds quite 'effective'. And I do know about mono and stereo. I was a professional electronics engineer for several years, designing audio equipment amongst other things.

Bryan


[This message has been edited by Pilot (edited 07-19-2003).]

Bryan,
The only stereo "anything" that you hear is the effects processor. Dual mono is not "psuedo" stereo, and it's not an emulation of anything. it's mono. ..... it's two of the SAME signal in two locations. Why is this so hard to understand?

Now here is the answer on this diagram of the KB......look on the left side where the stereo jack input is MIC/Line in...there are 3 connections for the jack....but the #3 one has no wire on it.....then look on the right side output...again on #3 no connection there !!!

Question answered....





[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-19-2003).]

If I am holding hands with two pretty girls, one on my left and one on my right, is it stereo? It sure sounds good..What if they are homely girls?

You guys, you guys, ugh! Of course you will have a mono signal out if you have a mono Mic even IF the cable is a TRS at the Mic/Line In and the Mic/Line Input IS a stereo Input on the PSR 2K. We are talking about the Y2K, right? What I am saying is that according to what Yamaha told me the Mic/Line Input jack is a "Balanced" Input. Okay so far so good, (I hope). Being that the Mic and Line are integrated into the same Jack, I would be surprised if the Mic/Line Input on the Y2K is a Balanced "Mono" Input. The reason I say that is the User Manual states that I can hook up an external Audio Device, hint: MP3/CD Player, into the "Line In", which btw as I stated before is the SAME jack as the Mic In which we are all aware of.

Also if you re-route the Audio signal to the Main Outputs or even the Aux Outputs the "Natural" thing for it to be is a Stereo Output. (Where else do you know of where an Input Jack that can accept an external "Audio Device", ie. CD Player, etc., be meant to output a "Mono" signal?) (I'm talking in MOST case scenarios here.) Does that sound logical?, ie., to have the Output be Mono when the Input has the capability to accept an external "Audio" device Input? For instance, take a look at your PC sound card. You most likely have Line Level, ie., 1/8" inputs and outputs. PS: This is just an example which for the sake of time I will give just this one.
Now, the 1/8" "Stereo" line cable will output to your Stereo PC Speakers possibly routed to a Subwoofer first. Those inputs and outputs will NOT be balanced but they are "Stereo". If your high end sound card has 1/4" ins and outs then they could be also "Balanced" but not necessarily. But the Line Levels will always be Stereo as far as I'm aware of. Stereo Ins and Stereo Outs. Case closed.

What I'm getting at is it is the "Logical" conclusion to the PSR 2000 scenario, ie. MIC/LINE INPUT INTEGRATED INTO ONE JACK WHICH YAMAHA TOLD ME WAS "BALANCED" AND I CAN ALSO HOOK UP AN EXTERNAL "AUDIO" DEVICE SUCH AS AN MP3/CD PLAYER WHICH IS A "STEREO" AUDIO DEVICE BTW, AND PLAY MY MUSIC "MP3'S/CD'S", ETC., THROUGH MY PSR2K. LOGIC TELLS YOU THAT IT "SHOULD" BE A 'STEREO' SIGNAL OUTPUT. NOW I REALIZE YOU CAN ALSO HAVE A "BALANCED" MONO INPUT. BUT IT WOULDN'T BE 'LOGICAL' TO DO IT THAT WAY IF A PERSON ALSO HAS THE OPTION OF INPUTING AN EXTERNAL AUDIO DEVICE INTO THE MIC/LINE INPUT, EG. CD/MP3 PLAYER.

NOW TO BE TRUTHFUL I AM NOT SURE YAMAHA IS USING LOGIC WHEN THEY MADE THE MIC/LINE INPUT. THEY WOULDN'T BE IF THE 'BALANCED' MIC/LINE INPUT IS A "MONO" JACK. THEY 'WOULD' BE USING LOGIC IF THE MIC/LINE INPUT (WHICH 'IS' BALANCED ACCORDING TO YAMAHA) IS ALSO A "STEREO" INPUT CONNECTION.

NOTE: IF IT IS A "STEREO" INPUT, WHICH LOGIC TELLS YOU IT SHOULD BE, THEN THERE IS THE ADDED ADVANTAGE OF BEING ABLE TO PURCHASE A "STEREO" MICROPHONE AND HAVE A STEREO SIGNAL OUTPUT THROUGH YOUR VOCALS BY WAY OF THE STEREO MIC.

They are really coming into Vogue you know.

Also, Donny is that schematic from a PSR 2000? Or is it from the PSR 740? I'm guessing it's from the PSR 740. "They're two different Keyboards so I am a little apprehensive in accepting that schematic as "written in stone" fact when it is not from the Keyboard in question, ie., the Y2K.

Best regards,
Mike

Logic has nothing to do with this scenario, Mike. The jack was intended for use as a mic input, with the added feature of a "line" switch so you could play other signals through it. Producing a stereo signal wasn't on the draawing board.
This is getting soooooooo tiring.
Believe what you want, but if you plug anything into a psr2000 mic input - you will enjoy lovely, Phil Spechter-like, MONO sound.......processed through a decent STEREO effects unit.
Forget about logic.
Forget computer line ins..
Forget about getting stereo from a mono device.
It just ain't gonna happen, my friend.

I'll respectfully drop this now. I'm sure it's wasting good bandwith, and I can't explain it any simpler. It's good to question things, but there are times when you run straight into the answer, and you need to recognize that it may not be the answer you want. This may be one of those times. The answer is:
M
O
N
O
sigh.......

[This message has been edited by Uncle Dave (edited 07-20-2003).]

Hi,

I was told that this schematic sent to me was a 740...BUT is excacly the same as the 2000.....you mean they are not the same?
uh oh... did I make a Boo Boo?

Mike - all the real evidence we have says mono, especially the wiring diagram.

You have clearly been misinformed about the "balanced" input. Also, having stereo outputs from a device does not imply in any way that all inputs should be in stereo, look at any mixer for evidence.

A number of us have suggested that Yamaha use stereo jacks for everything because it is easier to mass-produce that way. The repair shop confirms this.

The "line/mic" distinction is purely about operating level; the Y2k sticks more gain into the circuit for a "mic" signal.

Thankyou and goodnight.

I'm back and just about caught up. The answer is Mono and unbalanced.

------------------
Steve Deming
Assistant Manager
Customer Support Dept.
Pro Audio & Combo Division
Yamaha Corporation of America

Ouch! That means someone at your Tech Support Center didn't know what he was talking about. He told me (after conferring with one of his buddies) that the Mic/Line In was Balanced. He didn't say it was Stereo because, for one, I didn't ask him that. I wonder what he would have answered if I did?? At least we now have a "definitive" answer although not the one I was hoping for.

Glad to see you're back from NAMM?? Steve. I hope you had a good trip. And Yes, there are several questions on the board that ask for your specific help. Welcome back!

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 07-22-2003).]

Hi Steve Deming. Just in case you might have overlooked this, one of those 'other' posting thread topics that Mike is referring to, and which I hope you will provide more followup information on is:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/006671.html

Welcome back to the forum,

Scott