Do you really need 76 keys?

Does anyone really need 76 keys on their keyboard? Though I have played 76-key boards, I really never felt the necessity to have more than 61 keys. For me, 61 keys makes the board more portable, supplies me with the range of notes that I use 99 percent of the time, and because of the way I play, it's nice to have the little finger of my left handing resting against the edge of the board on the "C" key.

This is not a thread about key feel or touch sensitivity. It's merely a question of whether or not OMB performers really require 76, or 88-key boards. And, do those OMB performers with larger boards actually play the upper and lower extremes of their keyboards routinely, or do they merely play the notes and chords in the middle of the board like piano players.

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

61 is enough for me, although I don't play very well at all. If anything, I'd want it extended lower. I never play in the high registers, it's a total waste of space for me. I'm not trying to sound like Liberace, just play popular music.

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Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

Good topic Gary,

I find that some songs, I need to use the higher or lower octave, so basically that just means setting the octave to +1 or -1 and saving it to your reg bank... problem solved

thats mainly for synth sounds or the grand piano voice. most other acoustic sounds tend to start loosing quality up in the higher octaves anyway...

ah well, thats my input
nick




[This message has been edited by Nick G (edited 09-17-2006).]

61 doesn't bother me, but I prefer 76. Keeps me from having to use Octave Shift, and lets me have more room for chords on left.
DonM

Good topic:

I prefer 76 because I like to write and my first instrument is a piano. For me, the extra octave makes a huge difference. In this case, more is better.

zuki

I can't understand why 76 key keyboards go down to only E0. If they could go further (C0) I'd have been very happy and wouldn't be looking for 88 keys. They are trying to make me spend extra $$$ for 2 white and 2 black keys.

George

For me, pretty much the same reasons as Don said.

More importantly for me, I could make very good use of 76 keys with an additional split point, with split/voice settings capable of being stored in the registartion memory.

Don and mrED covered my sentiments can only add that I too like the idea of my pinky against the frame when in C but when moving to play a 76 key I have to watch myself closely with extra keys below takes a few minutes to get comfortable on a 76 note board, have to move the bench over about 10 inches. perfer to have the 76 though the 61 is pushing it on splitting the board 3 times, have to admit don't use the splt features very much because of this.....pose

I think it is a good facility that I can have a split point between Upper 1 or Upper 2 and the Upper 3 on my G70.
That is why I like more keys than 61.

I used to play a lot of left hand bass, and having at least 76 notes was necessary to get to that low "E".

When I started playing bass pedals with my B3 it was fine having 61 notes.

The arranger practically eliminates the need for the bass and I find I only need 61 keys to get the job done....it's just sometimes difficult to keep my feet still.

Great topic, Gary

Ian

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Remember to leave good news alone.

Great topic!

I guess as with any spec on an arranger, us arranger players have been adapting to what ever the manufactures throw at us.

I mean 76 keys would make life much easier for an OMB entertainer. It is a compromise between 61 and 88 keys. A 76 key arranger would eliminate the need to constantly having to press the octave up or down button to get a few extra notes. Also, if your keyboard allows for 2 or 3 right hand splits, you can do that so you have 2 sounds in the right hand. 76 keys will give you more room to play with when playing chords in the left hand in arranger mode. Playing full piano mode or with left hand bass is more inspiring and easier with a 76 keyboard.

A 76 key keyboard gives the player more flexibility and reduces the number of button presses one would have to do while playing a song.

But compromising is what we do as OMB entertainers. Since the manufacturers throw at us 61 keys we have to adapt to it. We would do the same if it were 49 keys.

76 keys is the ideal OMB arranger keyboard.


[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 09-17-2006).]

If you came from a piano background I can understand wanting more than 61 keys. My choice is 61 keys for the job and 88 keys for my home. I like trying to play piano – and I am using the correct words, “Trying to play piano”, I’m not much good at it.

The high end popular organs had 61 keys, two levels. Although they did have bass pedals. With a arranger keyboard I have no need for bass pedals or the extra 15 notes. I would properly never use them.

Again, Just my opinion, John C.

I bought a Tyros a few months ago and I love it. I do miss the 76 keys, as that's what I had for many years. I had to revoice my right hand solos as I was frequently reaching past the last key. The portability makes a huge difference to me since I do close to 300 gigs a year. I still have my G 1000 and still love it, however, the Tyros more than does the job even with only 61 keys.

Joe

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Songman55
Joe Ayala

Actually I prefer 73 keys because it's a neat C-C layout surrounded by the white keys.The 76 layout just isn't "neat".
But it's also right in the middle of a 61 and an 88.For my purposes I can go as low or as high as I want.

Hi Gar: As one who also owns & plays an 88 note acoustic piano (Steinway Grand) as well, I for one believe 'arranger mode' playing requires only 61 keys, and rarely necessitates using the octave +/- buttons either.

Auto accomp mode simply put, requires an entirely different playing approach than solo piano/keyboard. Solo playing necessitates more keyboard real estate (additional octaves) for left-hand arpegios, octave strides, bass lines, etc. In contrast, with auto accomp mode performance, the auto accomp rhythm section (specifically auto accomp bass part) provides that, with the LH's job to trigger the chords, plus rhythmic comping and/or (smooth) chord transition changes. In split keyboard mode, with the split point set at F#2, I find 1-1/2 octaves quite sufficient to handle this task, leaving 3-1/2 octaves (G2-C6) available for everything played with my RH. Hey, this is only a 1/2 octave less than available on an 88 note piano above middle "C".

The only time I need more keys is for traditional 'solo piano' style playing. For 'some' piano works, even a 76 note keyboard isn't sufficient. For those situations when I want to play solo piano style, I simply midi my Roland A-33 76 note controller to my T2, giving me the flexibility of only having to drag along a longer 76 note board when required, while enjoying the benefit of transporting a more compact 61 keyboard the rest of the time..

Scott

76 notes is only enough when I want to play an unweighted-action second/upper-tier keyboard now. I'm an 88-note man.

One of the best moves I made this year was to buy a graded-action 88-note controller to go with my 9000 Pro, and a graded-action digital piano for use when I am playing with MP3 backing. Now the leap to grand piano doesn't take as much effort and my playing is more consistant.

Gary, great topic.



Don, Exactly my sentiments.

In a perfect world I would prefer 88 semiweighted keys for an arranger board. I drooled a bit seeing that Casio has 88 keys on it's new WK8000 but it's not for me. I use the PSR3000, but prior to that when I first started gigging in 2004 I purchased a DGX505, that was short lived and bought a Casio Privia to use as a controller for the 3000. Too much work to transport both boards. When I play nursing home gigs that have a grand piano, I inevitably set up next to the grand and play a number of piano solo ragtime numbers at the grand. It would be nice to be able to do that with an arranger for those venues that don't have an acoustic piano.



Esh I'm with you on being an 88 keyman. This Saturday I'm playing a cocktail hour at a wedding reception. The bride and her mom
(have worked for them in the past)specifically said no arranger please play the piano that's at the hotel. So the last few weeks I've sat and spent some time working at the piano because my left hand has a tendency to get lazy when I just play chords at the arranger. As Esh has said the leap to the grand piano takes more effort when you've just been playing a synth action vs. weighted.




Just love those 88 keys. I'd like to be able to take my Clavinova CVP 307 to gigs.

Agree with this that 73 beats 76, but would prefer 66
with keys down to G on low end. More of what i need most
without increasing size or weight all that much.

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Miami Mo

I've seen the Budesa Bothers several times since my 4/5/'06 post and continue to marvel at what he does with a short keyboard. Here is part of that post: "I just came from seeing the Budesa brothers. Rich Budesa played a Roland AX7 – 45 keys. He played the bass line all night on what I would guess was a 2 octave split, which left him with about 21 keys and he did some pretty amazing stuff with that short board. Half of the audience members were musicians who were really digging this guy..."
Ciao,
Jerry

My take on this is, if you ONLY use your arranger in LH chord, RH solo mode, yes, you can probably get away with 61 notes, But arrangers are capable of so much more that just this, and for that, 76 is just about right..... Less weight than an 88, and bottom E for the left hand bass players, although 73 C-C is OK, as long as you have the Upper parts shifted up an octave. Enough range to play pretty pianistically on top of an SMF or in a band situation, and just about enough notes to squeeze in a third part in a pinch.

Just don't forget, many, many users of arrangers don't want to be restricted to HAVING to use them in arranger mode ONLY..........

I very much wish the T2 had 76 keys. Many times I am limited as to the range I can devote to the left-hand voice. I have found myself using more auto-chord stuff than I want to because of the lack of 76 keys. So I do find it limiting. I got the T2 for the sound/rythmn possibilities but am constantly frustrated by a key shortage. I would gleefully pay for an 76-key Tyros or better yet an 88-key model. Sadly, I think Yamaha believes I am in the minority.

good topic, and YES i really need 76 keys ,

i used to love 61 key stuff ;(
sometimes i move the split point between Arranger and Right hand so much left, that there is only one octave left for chords/style, baecause i need more keys.

and I have Roland VA-76, a 76 KEY keyboard!!! but not all the time i need 76 keys or more, mostly when i'm playing "musicals" and switching between 8 User Programs all the time...and doing a midi file of a musical will take forever... (making midifiles is pain in the back anyway[i mean making SMF from scratch, not using someone's elses, or using a style to record!!)

I know most folks just use one style thru out the song, Intro, Original, Variation, Ending.. But i'm sometimes required to play switching between Styles Tempos, user programs, keyboard modes and stuff, I actually need about three keyboards, one on top of the other, and one by the side... just a little OMB.

And plus... curently i'm borrowing KORG Trinity, from my uncle (you can't beilieve how good the sounds are in this keyboard!!!) ,and it's 61 Key. wel, 61 keys are not enough. even for playing drums i hate moving that octave all the time.

I need 3 keyboards (1 Arranger, 1 workstaion, and 1 some with lots of sounds and sttuf) each the size of BOSENDORFER Piano (those who don't know, Bosendorfer piano has 96 Keys!!)

AND I HATE THOSE MINI 24 KEY MIDI CONTROLLERS FOR COMPUTERS!!!!!!


[This message has been edited by Vadim (edited 09-17-2006).]

[I need 76 keys sometimes 88.


My LIONSTRACS MS X76 is playing all what I want. Every key of GIGA SAMPLE is playing sound that I want.

This function is very important for me same like 2 players and fast loading of second style or midi file.

I try KEYBOARDS with 61 keys but for me this is not enough. I need more freedom when I’m playing. Also good thing is if is on keyboard more buttons for fast playing of WAV shoot sounds. With that you can play in one keyboard like orchestra otherwise you need more things recorded before. But this is not live playing, and then is good keyboard with 49 keys or less.

Best regards.

Wow, I learned something new for sure. Does it have more on the bottom or top or both? Does this have anything to do with why I have read about a certain Bosendorfer sample being so great or is it because it's just overall a very high quality and expensive piano?

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Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

That's it.

chas

I don't need more then 61 keys in arranger mode, and when I play the piano voice in full keyboard mode, I hit the octave button. But, moving the octave feels strange to me, but I manage. I would prefer a 76 note keyboard, so I wouldn't have to use the octave button, and feel like I'm playing in the wrong place. I don't usually play arppegios, so Moving the octave down is an acceptable compromise.
Starkeeper

The extra notes are on the left side (bottom).

I need 76 keys, or more.

Russ

As I have said before on other threads I think the best solution is to mount a 49 note controller keyboard under the Ty2 and midi it to play the left hand. This gives you the full 61 note upper board for the right hand stuff and a very useful spread for the left hand.

As an old organ player this feels very natural and comfortable. I use a Roland PC49
controller which is very light and slim enabling it to fit right up tight under the Tyros.

This gives me a 110 note keyboard. Just think what one of those would weigh if anyone was mad enough to manufacture one.

I use an ordinary Kwik-Lok stand which I have adapted by shoving a couple of lengths of broomhandle into the tubing with small shelf brackets screwed in to take the Roland. Very compact and no extra stand to lug about.

Just another alternative.

Trevor

I have always thought that 76 keys are perfect..As others mentioned , it allows low E as in E bass, and the range for another split...

88 keys are not needed for me...I never smoked ,so I didn't need the two ends to leave a cig burning[and devaluing the keyboard]..

I learned about Bosendorfer and 96 keys from this Software instrument from Native Instruments: http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=akoustikpiano_us

Before this I always used to think the largest piano has 88 keys, and i think they actually teach that in schools!!

I absolutely need 76 (or at least 73) keys .

I still own a 61-key board, which stands in my son's room. Every so often I try to play it, only to rediscover that I am about an octave short.

Many posts tout the lighter weight and portability as the benefits of only having 61 keys. I believe that in many cases one does not need to trade off one for the other. If you look at most 61-key high-end instruments today, particulary T2, or Genesys Pro, as well as Roland E80, Korg PA1X (non-Pro), etc., you notice that the instrument frame extends way beyond the length of the keyboard. If the manufacturers really had portability in mind, they would have made the instruments shorter (and they could cut them by almost a foot), with the corresponding reduction in size and weight. I believe that their main motivation is that longer keyboards would hurt the sales of their high-margin digital home pianos (such as Clavinova).

If you are completely happy with having only 61 keys, good for you. But if you feel that you are being forced into making a compromise, unnecessarily trading off the needed keys for portability, you should make your opinions known, so that in the future the manufacturers produce instruments with the features we really want.

Regards,
Alex

Yes... not when I'm in arranger mode, but when I'm in full keyboard piano mode playing ragtime or boogie-woogie... there I gotta have at least 76 keys.

Glenn

... 76 keys ?!?!? ....... I only sing in 4 or 5 !!!
t.

Good one Ton

I got 75 keys on my key ring, got the hole in my leg to proove it...pose

I'm looking for 76 keys for the same reason that many have stated already. But if an 88 note high end Arranger came along that weighed 30 to 38 lbs. I would get the 88 key for sure. I doubt though that the Big Three will make such a beast in the near future. OTOH, it would be quite feasible for Yamaha, Korg, or Roland to make a light weight "76" note high end Arranger in the 30-38 lb. weight range or even lower. And a quality one at that.

A Controller is cumbersome because you need to carry around more 'stuff' and in this case an "extra" keyboard. No thank you. Obviously an all in one unit is ideal whether 76 key or 88 key because it is just one piece of gear. But a Controller with a Rack Mount is something to consider because a Rack would be much easier to transport along with the Controller keyboard.

If I used two keyboards in a tier mode I would want the two keyboards to have different sound palettes so as to have more of a variety of sounds and also sounds to compliment each other. A Controller on a tier with a master keyboard, whether a Tyros, etc., would only give you the sounds of a Tyros. But you would still have to lug around two pieces of gear to each Gig which is inconvenient to say the least.

No.. Rather give me one piece of gear that already has 76 or 88 keys, is light weight, and has a wonderful keybed plus all the other cutting edge features you would expect in today's high-end Arranger market. I would gladly lay down my hard earned cash for such an animal.

But apparently Yamaha, Korg, Roland, and the others don't want my hard earned cash. Or the hard earned cash of a multitude of other keyboardists who simply will not settle for 61 keys anymore (or never did to begin with) but would gladly buy a 76 or 88 note high-end Arranger at the drop of a hat. If, of course, it met their other meticulous standards that is. Like being light weight, cutting edge, and competively priced - etc., etc., etc... Oh yeah!

Best regards,
Mike


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 09-20-2006).]

For me its 76+ keys. I can get away with 61 every now and then, but too many gigs on a short board and I start to feel claustrophobic.

It's better to have it and not use it than to not have it and wish it was there.

Kind regards,
Mark

For me, if Yamaha made a 76 note T2, I'd already have one (probably as well as my G70, but maybe not ).

I guess Yamaha just don't really NEED my money......

So why is it that just about EVERY workstation out there has a 61, 76 AND 88 note version, but forget about arrangers. We must be treated as the morons we are, I guess. After all, we all just use one-finger chords, don't we......... (What's the emoticon for sarcasm, just in case anyone is taking me seriously?)

OK, found it..........