Logitech home speakers as studio monitors

What do you think about Logitech z2300 2.1 system as studio monitors? New to recording, I've seen it said, "Don't use headphones, use monitors only." I can't buy any monitors and I already have z2300's.

If you find any favor with them for this purpose, what about the sub cranking out the bass? Would this be too unrealistic or make it better. Should I turn bass way down? I don't know anything about studio monitors. Seems I read something about you want them to produce everything flat?

Good monitors, seems they are about $1,000 a pair.


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Me Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

I've not seen/heard them, but it seems Logitech knows how to build good speaker systems.... so why not use them as monitors ?

Just line them up in your studio, play your favorite Audio-CD through the Logitechs, make some EQ-adjustments (when needed).... ready !

I wouldnt do that....
that system has hardly any MID RANGE vs decent studio monitors....EQ mix settings will be way off to the NORMAL Listener on a full range home sound system.
BTW what do you actually want to do regarding these recordings?

For pitching original songs and if I get to where I can record well enough, making my own indie c.d.'s for sale... original music. I are a songwriter.


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Me Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

I do agree with DNJ, but you have them (z2300)
why not give them a try? They are not the best for recording--and you should use a flat response--but give them a try, you'll never know until.

John C.

I only use them for playback to augment the bass in the keyboards. I would never consider using them to record.
Bebop

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A recording monitor's job is to reproduce the sound of a recording exactly. This is what the Logitechs cannot do.

The Logitechs have lots of tone-enhancing circuitry intended to make anything you run through them sound good, as do many state-of- the-art sound systems these days. They can cover up problems in your mix. What you need a monitor for is to reproduce everything accurately so if there are problems you can hear them and fix them.

Headphones can work to help find problems, but are not suitable for balancing the final mix.

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As far as I know the actual recording is done by microphones and/or line-inputs through mixers. Speakers do NOT record they only produce sound ... every type more or less 'colored'

I heard many recordings that were finalized on top-range speakers sounding not OK on ordinary home-systems.
Other songs mastered on cheaper speakers (e.g. NS10 Yammies) sounded very good.

Flatfoot:
I did not know these speakers have built-in enhancement circuits. Do you have an idea what types ?

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>>>> Other songs mastered on cheaper speakers (e.g. NS10 Yammies) sounded very good.>>>>>

So as part of the monitoring process, the product must be auditioned on a variety of speakers, icluding cheap ones. Listen on a walkman, a boombox, on you home stereo, in the car. It is often surprising that a mix that sound great in the studio does not work in such a real-world situation. You have to mix for all of these situations, because this is what your listeners will be using. Most big studios keep a small boombox and an automobile setup on hand for this purpose.


>>> I did not know these speakers have built-in enhancement circuits. Do you have an idea what types ? >>>>>>


The specs for these circuits are kept pretty secret. The Z5500's are labeled "THX Certified." This spec is acheived by adding circuitry that alters the sound to agree with the THX idea of what sounds good. These specs are usually licensed, and it could be that even Logitech does not know what the spec is. It may be that THX requires the inclusion of proprietary chip of unknown design. Creative, Dolby, DTS and the various game designers all have their own specs and the people who make this type of speaker work hard to make their equipment compatible with as many standards as possible.

Here is a link about THX, etc:
http://timefordvd.com/tutorial/SurroundSound.shtml

And here is an outstanding site for people new to desktop audio:
http://www.audiominds.com/


Douglas Wolfe
Sacramento


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Well sportsfans, when you play the PSR-3000 through the Logitech Z-2200 and Z-5500 systems using a flat EQ--they sound damned flat! Try it and you'll discover this is the case. No special enhanced sounds--just flat as a pool table.

Bill,

Try them out, then take the same CD, put it in your home stereo system again using flat EQs and I think you'll find that same sounds will be emitted from the speakers.

As for the final mix, that's a judgement call at best. Getting that perfect balance between accompaniament and vocals is quite a challenge for even seasoned professionals in fancy studio settings. This is not rocket science, but you will not be able to learn all the tricks of the recording trade in one day either--it will take some time, and you will make lots of mistakes. You'll learn from those mistakes and eventually you'll begin to get the hang of creating acceptible recordings. After a while, you'll progress to good, excellent and eventually, outstanding recordings. It just takes time and patience to get through those early stages.

Good Luck,

Gary

Gary (or anyone!)
what settings constitute a "flat" sound?
Just using the on board "flat" eq settings? Or is there something else I should try tweaking here?
As you said, one does slowly get better, but I'm far from making a great one yet!

thanks,
Jill

Douglas, Gary,
You guys put it better than I did, but we think the same : Quality monitor speakers are NO quarantee for a perfect mix !

Many top-recordings were/are finalized on NS-10 or MSP-5

[This message has been edited by Roel (edited 08-03-2005).]

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>>>..what settings constitute a "flat" sound?...>>>

Every place you play has its own acoustic properties, depending on its size, shape, materials, etc. These factors may emphasize one frequency or diminish another frequency. It you were to see this on an ocilloscope you would see a spike or a dip in the readout. The engineers job is to adjust the sound so that the spike or dip is gone. This condition is called 'flat' because that's what it looks like on the scope.

The term is also used by extension to refer to a similar adjusting process that recording engineers perform in the studio.


Douglas Wolfe
Sacramento

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>>>...Speakers do NOT record they only produce sound...>>>>

Strangely enough, speakers have been used to make recordings. The schematic representation of dymanic microphones and of speaker coils are identical. If you plug the cheap mike that came with your computer into a walkman earplug jack, you will hear sound. If you plug headphones into the mike jack of your soundcard and sing into the headphones, you will get a signal that can be recorded.

In the 70's we used to take the earpieces off a set of headphones and drop them into the holes of the frame of a grand piano. This was the best piano transducer available at the time for live shows.

There are hit records that have been made this way, although I can't recall any titles at the moment.


Douglas Wolfe
Sacramento

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Jill,

On the PSR-2100's mixing console you'll find an EQ setting that says Flat--that's the sound I'm referring to. There is a significant difference between those EQ settings and those I posted earlier. Give them a try and you'll hear the differrence.

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Thanks gary -
i know exactly what to do to set that up - appreciate it!!!

Jill

I don't have the funds for a real set of monitors and use a set of Altec Lansing 2.1 computer speakers. What I do is take a favorite cd that is as close, in style, to the music I am recording, one's that you are REALLY familiar with. Then listen to that on your "monitors" with everything set at zero or the flat setting on all EQ's...speakers, any software you use to record, and the EQ for the windows mixer (if it has an "Advance" one).

Then listen to those cd's on those speakers until you are sick of it (do this over a few days) Then try to match, as close as you can, the sound of that cd. This is not "correct", but it has worked for me and a few others who tried it, and it didn't cost a penny more to get better results from what I had.

Just a thought...........

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My Tunes...
http://www.mp3.com.au/TheJCSProject/
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/thejcsproject.htm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Smurf:
[B]I don't have the funds for a real set of monitors and use a set of Altec Lansing 2.1 computer speakers. What I do is take a favorite cd that is as close, in style, to the music I am recording, one's that you are REALLY familiar with. Then listen to that on your "monitors" with everything set at zero or the flat setting on all EQ's...speakers, any software you use to record, and the EQ for the windows mixer (if it has an "Advance" one).

Then listen to those cd's on those speakers until you are sick of it (do this over a few days) Then try to match, as close as you can, the sound of that cd. This is not "correct", but it has worked for me and a few others who tried it, and it didn't cost a penny more to get better results from what I had before when I just recorded with them set up sounding their best.

If you can come close to the sound of the CD on your "monitors", then it should translate well to everywhere else your "guide CD" sounds good, car, home system, boom box, etc.

Just a thought...........

Sorry about the double post...I thought I was editing.......15 days without a cig and I think my mind is going................sorry about that..............

Good to hear that you are giving up the evil weed??
I note from your profile that you are a religious man who is also a carer. Thanks then now are due to you from those who are in your vicinity for not imposing the dreaded smoke in their lungs.
Keep it up and you will enjoy life more than ever eventually. You will start to realy taste your food for example and eventually you will be praying that many more will follow your lead.
cheers from a longtime self righteous non-smoker.
Eddie




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Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

SemiLiveMusic. Who said don't use Headphones for monitoring. The benefit of a good quality headphones is they eliminate room acoustics and speaker positioning. With Speakers a recording can sound rightly balanced in one room and the same recording sounding poor with the same speaker setup in another room. You can only judge a good balance and voice quality on speakers in a studio environment or using Headphones which eliminate all these problems.

Ditto!

Gary

I've read it several places and here is a good article about it. FWIW.


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Me Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

eddiefromrotherham,
Thanks for the words. I never smoked in the house, van, car, etc. I always went outside, so they only 2nd hand people ever got was from my clothes!

And as far as recording, use what ya got, do your best, and have fun with it! I also use the Kristal Audio Engine for a DAW, Audacity and SoundEngine for editing, the Kajerhus Classic, GlaceVerb and a few other VST plugins. Total cost....FREE! Check my tunes out, the biggest paid for piece of software was OMB 7.1. Just do it and have a blast!

SemiLiveMusic. I have read through the article you gave the link for. I agree with the article, but it's comparing Studio Monitors against Headphones which would cost 1.000 time more. If you are using Studio Monitors in a Studio environment then they would be the choice instead of headphones, but you are talking about cheap Logitech Speakers to monitor a recording...then as have already stated you will be better monitoring on headphones, by all means check your recording afterwards on the logitechs.
I have been involved in Studio Monitoring and a final balance we always checked our mix on a medium quality Hi-Fi system because this is what most people buying the recording would be listening on.

[This message has been edited by Graham UK (edited 08-27-2005).]

I use a couple of Yamaha MSP-5's in my modest home recording setup. They're pretty darn cheap for studio monitors and got some great reviews! Here's one:
http://www.recording.org/e-mag/article_102.shtml