As successful as we are....

There are still those who will not book me. One place I played for free to get in. This was against her policy, but I muscled her. Her people loved it, but she said they didn't. I tried to explain that I play 60+ jobs a month, successfully, at facilities just like hers and her reply was "well, I guess you don't need us then". Without thinking, I said, "I guess not" and hung up. I was upset today, but hey, I'm a bulldog at the very least.

God is good...just as I was typing this, I got a call and booking from a retirement community

Anyone else have stories they can share to make me feel better?

zuki

There's an old saying in sales. Some will, some won't, so what, next. You usually can't get everyone. I always try to be nice and not burn any bridges. I'll give you an example. A couple of years ago I went to a job that the AD had called and booked me for. It was to be my first time at that place. When I arrived, she said she didn't have me on the books. I was nice to her and we rebooked and today this is my largest account.

In another situation, an AD wouldn't give me a date until one of her fellow AD's raved about me. All of a sudden my phone started ringing off the hook.

So hang in there and eventually, you'll get what you want.

Good hunting,

Joe

------------------
Songman55
Joe Ayala

You did the right thing. You don't need to beg or to become a "weasel" to get a job.
Like my mother used to say, "Those who don't like you don't deserve you".

(... well, maybe my mother never said that, but... you get my point )

Andrea .. if she didn't, she meant to ...
t.

Some times it is a personality conflict.
You may be dealing with someone with an ego problem that just decided they don't like your success and you should kiss you know what so then can help you and keep their big head inflated.
othertimes you could be dealing with a persons mood swings as bi polar.
Smile on em, thank on en, and PXXX on em.
the sea is full of good places to work.
Best,
Bebop with 60 years experience

you work an average of 2 gigs a day every day of the year and that's not enough? not enough $, not enough acceptance, not enough what???? for you to get your nose out of joint about one rejection????

i know a lot a great musicians/great entertainers that can't
land 2 gigs a week..consider yourself fortunate and consider
yourself spoiled rotten.


------------------
Miami Mo

MO's point was very blunt and I have to agree with him. You've got enough gigs to not let this rejection bother you. Think about the starving musicians who have enough trouble getting one or two gigs a week.

Squeak

I would have to say I have my doubts unless hes playing for free or next to nothing.

btw ....I'm still waiting for a demo of any kind?

If Zuki doesn't post any demos...does that make him any less legit?

Ian the Curious

no Ian.....if he didn't brag so much about all the gigs he is allegedly playing I wouldn't have even asked....maybe we ALL can learn from his playing techniques which must be unbelievable to be hired 2x, 3x a day.
What is legit is that Im asking for a demo or two...not too much to ask is it? after all we all wanna play 2x a day also Everyday right? whats the secret ?

btw Ian you are definitly legit .....& I really appreciated your demo song your sent me ...very well played & I got a chance to hear the S900 in the hands of a real pro ..

Thanx



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-13-2007).]

I just sent Donie a jazz tune I wrote and recorded yesterday so he won't think I can't play. I still play a tad now and then It was recorded on my new E 80 raw and unedited.
I would put it up for adoption but they sold my website awhile back and I don't have any place to put it now
Best to all,
Bill the Bebop

[This message has been edited by BEBOP (edited 08-13-2007).]

Tony,
you know how those italian mothers are...

Bill......thanx for the tune....The E80 really sounds live .....Great Jumping Tune, I really enjoyed listening & tapping my feet!

its appreciated, keep up the great work

Thanks for the nice compliments, Donny.

Perhaps Zuki will send you a demo when he can find the time.

Any tips regarding more playing and more $$$$ would be appreciated as well.

Ian

Bebop... Roland-arranger.com can host all the demos you care to post... We even have a dedicated forum for exactly this purpose.

Just open the 'additional options' sign on any post, and attach the file there. Nothing could be easier, and then just post a link to it here...

Ian a Demo is worth a thousand words

btw, your version of that song was delightful....thinking I was gonna hear the original famous Latin version I was pleasantly surprised at what you created on the S900....I can see why the T2 is not needed.

Donnie how about some new demos from you? I don't think we've heard any with the new board.
I'd like to hear some of your playing.

Mike as soon as you & Zuki post some I'll be right behind ya....with vocals too on my SD1+ ..hows that offer?

Meanwhile heres some of the Wolf's song demos from Finland T2
http://hienotkaverit.com/Hienot_Kaverit_LIVE_kooste.wma

http://hienotkaverit.com/I_Left_My_Heart_In_San_Francisco.wma
http://hienotkaverit.com/index.php?topic=11.0




[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-13-2007).]

Gee sorry, I didn't think you would mind. I just thought it's been a while since you posted anything new.
I don't have anything to post, as far as arrangers and keyboards I'm strictly recreational, and I've seen what you guys do to them. I hope that doesn't mean I'm not worthy to participate here.
By the way I would also like to hear more new stuff from Uncle Dave and Don Mason thats not a challenge just a request.


[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 08-13-2007).]

HEARING STUFF Mike is what this is all about...that's what this whole forum is about, General Arranger KB's.....talk talk talk about playing...But not many ever post what they are playing? The most important thing is the Music.....but ya gotta hear it to learn & appreciate from it.

Personally, I would like to hear instrumental demos....as opposed to vocal with instrumental backing(SMF).


Ian

Your right so teach me ..post some of your new stuff!!

I agree.
But I also love to hear Don Masons (and others, I don't mean to leave anyone out) vocals over a style with his guitar in the right hand. The artistry is as much in choosing the style for a particular song and performing it.
I'd like to hear more examples of that kind of stuff.




[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 08-13-2007).]

I have heard your vocal performances, Donny, and I was very impressed.

Do you do any instrumentals, especially ones using the auto accompaniment of the SD1+?


Ian

Ian...
I haven't recorded with the SD1+ as of yet...but I will try to do some short demos of different styles & sounds for you very soon.
Both Instrumental & Vocal live ok.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-13-2007).]

That would be very cool, Donny.

Ian

Its my pleasure Ian.

Just arrived back from 2 gigs today to a rash of comments I didn't expect.

MOE: You have it right on!
DREAMER: I'm happy with your comment. I felt guilty all day.
DONNY: Why would I lie about the amount of gigs I play a month? I thought it was normal to have that many, if full time. I don't publish my earnings, but I can assure you I don't play next to nothing ($410 on Saturday alone). I will not boast about the number of jobs I have anymore - I'll keep it to myself.
IAN: I have a strong sales/marketing backgroung and use those skills to book myself via phone calls and letters. I practice ALL THE TIME to better myself and work on new material. Of course, now that I have played my first year (started in Feb with one job that month, I've been rebooked up to 10 times in the subsequent months per each account I've played).

Seems I have to apologize everytime I make a comment these days. Now it's for not posting demos. I'll try to get that done soon as my schedule slows down.

zuki

Zuki ... keep working the gigs, man ... we will wait for the demos ...
t.

Zuki, there is a particular Agency we know (a Married Couple) who are a couple of grand Wankers (Australian slang).

They haven't booked us despite sending demos, EPKs and constant emails for a year!

I eventually gave up on them after hearing more than one Musician (and even a Comedian I worked with) thought they were just too prickly to deal with - *understatement alert*

I don't lose (too) much sleep over it now, the only reason I lose SOME is they book for a couple of venues (Casinos) we'd LURVE to get into.

Like yourself, we're very popular (um - not 2 gigs a day popular though!!!) so I've realised that sometimes, it's THEM not YOU if you know what I mean!

G'luck with the rest of your career bud!

HB.

Zuki,

Do what YOU want and don't be pressured into something you DON"T want to do. To demo or not to demo, it's up to you and not someone else. You owe no one anything!
Like Hellboy says, good luck... and have a blast!

Taike

Hi zuki

I hope that you do continue to tell us how many bookings you have. I think it's great. You are very successful doing what you're doing and I think any info that you would care to share here on how you manage to do this would be considered valuable information to the majority. It gives people a chance to see really what can be done.

Scott

Thanks, Scott, for being the voice of reason.

Zuki,

I am glad you are so successful, and I appreciate your answer.

Please do not feel I am trying to pressure you into posting a demo...I know I wouldn't like it done to me.

Enjoy your success...you have obviously earned it.

Ian

Zuki,
Wow that is a lot of jobs, something to be proud about. And yes keep telling us, I enjoy hearing about someone’s success. You might even share your method of playing and salesmanship with the other members on this forum, I am sure it would be appreciated. Helping others is always a good thing.

Let me say this gently – If there are three hundred people who love me and there is one who does not – and it troubles me, what am I saying about myself.

Zuki, I have been there, thinking that the whole world was about me, is not a good place be. That woman my have had many reasons of not wanting you to hire you --- and the reasons have nothing to do with you personality or your music. It could been her time of the month, you reminded her of her ex-husband or whatever. The bottom line is that you are being hired and approved of sixty times a month, is it possible that they are wrong about you and your playing and personality??? No my friend they are not.

Only MHO, John C,

Thank you fellows for the kind remarks.

Here's what I have to say about getting the amount of bookings I have:

I WANT IT MORE THAN THE NEXT GUY This past executive businessman is living the music life in the FAST LANE. You know, the feeling that there are never enough hours in the day to get everything done. That's how I go about my bookings, my practice, my persistence, etc. I'm careful to carry into my job the skills necessary to be as good or better than any other performer before me. Of course, this is almost impossible, thus the constant drive is always there - a great closed loop

There are no secrets. In ANY profession, the BUSY person, who PERFECTS his craft, will win out.

That is the message behind my original post. I take no prisoners because I believe in myself, LOVE what I do and take offense when others don't feel the same - nothing wrong with that - I get over it.

zuki

Also known as Zukism.

Zuki, as always, I'm happy for your success. You've earned each and every gig, my friend.

Taike

Zuki, I think it's great you have all those gigs, but rather than ask advice from all of us about how to overcome one rejection, why not share the secret of all those gigs, because you may not have realized it but i don't think any of us can claim 60+ gigs a month at approx $200 per gig..or even close. now this is presuming you weren't asking our advice as a smokescreen--and you are entitled to the benefit of the doubt, since nobody here knows your real motives for certain: bragging, insecurity, or blissful ignorance of how difficult this business is for the overwhelming majority of qualified musicians. So please..clue us in..if it's not just dumb luck there must be a method.. Or can it be that you are just so much more talented as a performer than all of us..because as we all know it takes a lot more than talent to work steadily. but if you do post samples that show you to be transcendentally talented then we at least can comfort ourselves that we were not blessed with those gifts and therefore should have no unrealistic expectations. THANKS!!

------------------
Miami Mo

When Zuki was thinking about going into music full time..he had some reservations..I recall talking with him, and confirmed that he could make a decent living[also shared other folks that were doing well]..
Zuki isn't bragging ..he is sharing his excitement that he is doing well, and maybe better than he expected so soon..

Share with his joy...rather than degrading his accomplishments..Too bad he won't use SMF's or play a Roland..He could do much better..

I don't know Zuki, but I too am happy for his success, because if what he is saying is all true, (and since that seems to corroborated by those here than know him) it means there is hope for the others in what has appeared to be an ever-shrinking landscape of opportunity for live musicians in this country. After rereading Zuki's later remarks, I apologize for my last post asking him for his secret, since he already gave his version of it--but i missed it first time around. From his own words re his doggedness and persistence, and the fact he posted here to ask help for overcoming a single drop of rejection in an ocean of acceptance, his secret is, evidently: CHUTZPAH! gotta get me some mo' o' that stuff, fo sho..MO

Yeah, I know this was a different century but for most of my gigging life the average gig was from 9pm to 1 or 2am. 45 min sets seperated by a "short call for (copious amounts of) alcohol". The end of the gig was followed by 1) a trip to IHOP for a 3am breakfast (if we were "unlucky") or 2) a long night of "partying" if we WERE lucky. This pattern could be repeated 3-4 nights a week. We lived like vampires and just the thought of playing a second gig during a 24 hour period would have us throwing up (which we were probably already doing).

Obviously, to be able to play 2-3 gigs in a 24hr period and still have time to practice, telemarket yourself, browse the net, kiss the wife, feed the dog, etc., requires that one live an exceptionally clean and wholesome life. However, us old guys know that this is not only counterproductive to the creative process, but goes against everything we musicians stand for. Damn, I hate progress.



chas

BTW, you can check the accuracy of the above with any of the old geezers on this board, at least those who can still remember the "good ol' days".

Still 'living the life' chas, here

Admittedly, if I get in two gigs a day, it involves playing from 1 p.m. until maybe 9 or 10 p.m., but at least I don't have to do the 4 am IHOP routine any more...!

And, as financially rewarding as the senior circuit can be, us 'old schoolers' might have a problem calling a 1 hr show to a captive audience a 'full' gig, especially as the time spent traveling between gigs (if you are doing three or so!) is probably longer than the time onstage...

Me, I like playing, not driving!

Don't get me wrong... the senior circuit is a 'real' job, just completely different in time scale to just about anything else in the live music industry. Restaurants, clubs, pool decks, most gigs will want at least three hours or more of music. Do you do any gigs outside of senior homes, zuki?

Chas, you "nailed it". That's the way the club days were. I actually played at the Sportsman in Lexington after hours for years. 1:00 AM to 4:00 AM six nights. All the nightime folks gathered there. Went to work at 7:30 AM the next day. Worked 5:00 PM to 4:00 AM on week-ends. Of course, for me, there was no equipment moving when I had a house job, which was most of the time.

Now I limit my week to 5 jobs-two house jobs and three Country Club jobs a week. These are three-four hours, so thats a little easier and more lucrative than in an out of nursing homes and assisted living places, which I don't do (except as a volunteer-money goes to Kentuckians for Nursing Home Reform, a charity I am involved with). Plus, my sons move, install and test my second set-up while I'm playing the first job. I also love my 3-4 nights a month at a country club where my B-3 and Rhodes live.

Zuki does it differe3ntly, and it works for him.

Congratulations!

Russ

I am probably about as successful as Zuki, and I haven't posted any demoes. But I will soon, I promise.

Zuki, the same happens to me. You live in a big metropolitan area. If you are good, which apparently, you are, then there will always be enough work for you. You don't have to have the trophy of every place on your roster.

There's always going to be jerks out there. Don't let them get to you. You are very blessed to be making a living.

Zuki, to make yourself feel better, you should do retail therapy and get yourself a PSR-S900. I am having so much fun, playing with the new voices. It's also great to hear a lot of styles I have been playing with some of the new megavoices, especially the Mega Nylon guitar. A lot of the Tyros 2 styles that I have sound better on the PSR-S900 as there are a few more Mega Voices. The same goes for the CVP-409 styles that a friend just sent me.

I have also been enjoying the Keyfax organ voices made for PSR1500 and above, that picked up at www.arrangerworkstaton.com. They are really cool.

Zuki, you are busting butt gigging. You deserve a new keyboard!

Beakybird

thanks Diki,
I got it posted in the Roland Forum but in the wrong place but it has now been moved. I will have to get the url an post it in the snythzone. thanks for your help.
Thanks To Donnie for your good words about this song in the email you sent me.
best to all,
Bebop

OK friends,

Not sure how this escalated into looking like some star with multiple bookings. It was not meant to become that and I am not a star - if so, I'd be in Hollywood

I am simply one who works hard at his craft, both in booking and practicing. I think if everyone busts their butts to get bookings, they will. I guess that's why I don't have time to post demos or other things because I put my all into performances and preparation.

I am very lucky to have grown kids and a wife that does most things around here so I can do the love I've always wanted. Some husbands/Dads don't have that freedom and that factors into the equasion too.

Enough of me please, but thanks to those who took time to respond - much appreciated.

I promise one day to post some instrumentals and vocals, all arranger style playing (sorry Fran)

zuki