Stereo Spot Monitors Speakers for: MUTE Keyboards!

In my continuing search for a small lightweight 2 speaker (stereo) 'onstage keyboard spot monitoring' setup, here are two more interesting possibilities I recently discovered:

Carvin PM5 Spot Monitor:
http://www.carvin.com/cgi-bin/Isearch.exe?CFG=2&P2=PM5-B&P1=MON

In addition to acting as on stage personal reference monitors, they might also be sufficient enough to act as the sole sound source for small venues. They only weigh 5 lbs each, yet its power capacity is 125 Watts per speaker (5" woofer) to provide plenty of volume. These are passive speakers though and require a separate power amp such as the Carvin DCM150 (9 lbs) to drive them: http://www.carvin.com/cgi-bin/Isearch.exe?CFG=2&P2=DCM150&P1=PWA

Weight of total Carvin package (amp & 2 speakers)is ONLY 20 lbs. Carvin offers the speaker/amp as a combo package: http://www.carvin.com/cgi-bin/Isearch.exe?CFG=2&P2=P5-150-2&P1=SYS3


A lighter weight (16 lb total package) but considerably less powerful (20 watts/speaker) option would be to get a pair of Yamaha MS202II's. The MS202II's are self powered, and includes two 4" woofers per speaker: http://yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA /Content...G%253DY,00.html

Interested in getting feedback, comments, and recommendations regarding these two personal on stage stereo monitoring PA options. Also, how do they compare (soundwise) to the Galaxy Audio PA options: http://www.galaxyaudio.com/galaxy/galaxyPRODUCTS.html#COMPACT%20PA%20SYSTEMS

I had also considered the JBL G2 10" Eons, but that setup (24 lbs/speaker: 48 lb total) is quite a bit heavier & larger than the other above options, and probably more than needed for stereo spot monitoring.

Though the Tyros (TRS-MS01) Speakers (satellites & subwoofer) is working ok, I'm still looking for another stereo monitoring option: one that doesn't require a subwoofer, and one which will provide more sound volume output than the Tyros (TRS-MS01) offers. Feedback, comments, and experience with the above appreciated.

Scott


[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 03-12-2003).]

Scott,

All those little monitors have very little bottom end Bass..
just put one of your EVsx100 on the floor [wedge angle up] next to you....and one on a pole on the other side.
Why carry all that extra stuff?

I have to agree with Donny on this one--those small systems sound great if you're playing in a very small room and you're just playing background music, but bottom end is something they all seem to lack.

Good Luck,

Gary

Donny: I've actually set up my EV's as you've suggested, but it still doesn't provide the direct close up & personal stereo monitoring advantages that built in speakers (PSR2000/PSR9000) or spot monitor type speakers provide.

The Carvin PM5's claim to be a cut above other spot monitors, and to produce an impressive bottom end for it's 5-1/4" woofer size, which btw is BIGGER than the 'built into the kb speakers' such as the PSR9000 & PSR2000, and delivers a lot MORE power (50 watts per speaker) as well. The total weight of the Carvin PM5 and amp package is about the SAME as the Tyros speakers + subwoofer, yet should produce a lot more volume output and better overall sound. I'm still hoping someone with first hand experience with the Carvin PM5 or the Yamaha MS202II's will step forward to provide feedback. Otherwise, I may just try them out myself on a risk free purchase trial. - Scott

I totally concur with what you're saying. I primarily want stereo spot monitors to act as a direct in my face stage monitor, letting the Main PA speakers (EV SxA100's) provide (fill in) the low end (bass). I would rely on the spot monitors alone, for only the smallest rooms & background music. Both the Carvin & Yamaha MS202II options are also ultra lightweight, easy to transport, and quick to setup, providing everythng I've grown to appeciate about built into the keyboard speakers + MORE. - Scott

Hello.............This post brings up this question:
When using another speaker system with the PSR2000 do you still use the built in ones, or do you turn them down?

Scott... I own a pair of Carvin PM5's and can vouch for Carvin's claims. I also own a JBL G2 10 which is a good main speaker for a small or even medium venue, but IMO, a pair would be over-kill for what you're looking for.

As long as you have realistic expectations of what you'll hear from a 5" speaker (bottom end), I'd bet you'll be happy with the PM5's. They're light weight, clear, crisp, and loud. Give them a no risk try. Carvin is easy to deal with. Good luck.

Glenn

Rattley,

I always use the 2000 speakers as an in your face monitor, which I find better than packing another piece of equipment around, mainly a 30-pound monitor. I always keep the volume low enough so I can hear what's coming from the main speakers, but loud enough to clearly monitor what I'm playing. The lack of built-in speakers is probably the only thing that currently prevents me from buying a Tyros. Everything, other than the lack of speakers, that I've heard on three forums is quite positive.

Cheers,

Gary

Gary: Owning both the PSR2000 & Tyros, I echo your sentiments.

Glenn: Thanks for your response. I of course don't expect the 5 lb PM5's (with 5.25" woofers) to even come close to sounding as good as a pair of EV SxA100's or JBL G2 10" Eons, but I hope they'll sound good 'by themselves' for very small venue situations (small rooms of under 30 people) performing & singing acoustic jazz & pop. What do you think?

Glenn, since you're a Ketron XD9 owner, how do you compare the sound coming from the PM5's vs going thru the XD9's internal speakers? Do the PM5's produce substantially better sound or?

Also, what brand/model power amp (and # of watts output @8 ohms per channel) are you using to drive your PM5's? How well do the PM5's handle vocals?

Once again, thanks again for your valuable input.

- Scott

Scott, maybe you should wait until you get the Motion Sound KP100S. I just spoke with their technical support, and the man, Joan (I think), told me that the KP100S makes a great monitor when it is set up 3 feet behind the musician and propped up two feet. He told me that the system spreads the sound around 180 degrees and sounds fantastic. I asked him about the bass response, and he told me that the speakers are rated to go as low as 50htz. He told me that two 8" speakers have the same surface area and thus the same depth as one 12" speaker.

But when I asked him about this replacing my JBL Eon10 G2, he cautioned me that the JBL speaker is very efficient and high quality, and that the two 8" speakers might and might not be able to get the same depth and volume. He told me that if I needed more punch I could replace the speakers that come with the amp, but that the amp was more than adequate for small clubs.

I am using a keyboard with built-in speakers, so I don't need the KP-100S as a monitor.

I'm going to get a subwoofer for the KP-100S, so if I'm playing for a larger room I can always have enough bass.

Good luck

Hi Larry. Interesting to hear that the 38 lb KP-100S stereo PA unit can function both as a 'monitor' and 'sole sound source' for the smaller venues. I trust, as you explained, that its bass response will be impressive, but . . . I'm concerned about potential feedback when placing the KP-100S 3 feet directly behind me, with the microphone effectively pointed in the direction of the speaker.

The nice advantage of the Carvin system is that it's 18 lbs lighter than the Sound Motion KP-100S. In this biz there are so many widely varying venues to consider, yet not one PA system seems suitable for all of them. My pocketbook and closet space isn't big enough to hold them all, so . . .

In larger venues I have used my 2 JBL Eon 10 G2's as monitors and my 15's as the house speakers. Based on the Pro's recommendation (thanks!) I recently tried the KeyPro KP-200s amplifier and ended up purchasing one from Dano to replace the Eon 10's. The KeyPro is functioning as both my monitor and the house speakers in smaller venues. I set the KeyPro in front of me (not behind as Motion Sound suggests) because I don't want that much volume behind me. I place it on the floor to decrease the treble (since my ears are sensitive to higher frequencies) and also to avoid carrying a 2 foot stand to put the amp on. I find that the sterio image effect is present behind the speaker also.

By using the KP-200S I can avoid carrying a mixer and the Behringer Ultramizer Pro I had been using for sterio enhancement. I replaced a BBE 264R single channel sonic maximizer with the Ultramizer because (to my ears) the BBE added to much high frequency to achieve the sterio enhancement. To my ears the KP-200S creates a wider sterio image than the Ultamizer Pro and adds less high frequency. On the KP-200S, the high EQ can be reduced to compensate for what ever high frequency is added without taking the sparkle out of the sound.

My sound module is an X4 (the keyboard is an accordion). One of the reasons I started using a mixer was because I felt the X4 sounded better through a mixer (compared to going directly into the Polytone "Accordion" amps I was using at the time.) I find the X4 sounds great going directly into the KP-200S.

I use a VoicePrism also and a problem I had using a mixer and the JBL's was hearing the accompaniment when I was singing (since I was hearing my voice directly and also through the speakers). I don't have this problem with the KP-200S - perhaps because it is closer to me than I placed the JBL speakers. When I used the JBL 10's as monitors I had still had the problem unless I had the monitors fed from the Aux out and mixed the accompaniment louder than the mix for the house speakers.

Didn't mean for this to get so long - do talk to Dano about trying a KP-200S before you make a final decision. Or, talk to him about a KP-100S for that matter.

Barbetta amps have been mentioned in some posts. I talked to an acquintance who plays keyboard professionaly in a combo and also rebuilds Hammond organs and he uses a KeyPro KP-200S on the job. He had been using a Barbetta amp (don't know which model) and says there is no comparison. Course, we all have different ears.

Good luck!

RJM

Hi RJM

In which way is there no comparison between the Barbetta and the KP200? Are you saying he thought the KP200 sounded better than the Barbetta?

Thanx

Scott Langholff

In fact already have 'pre-ordered' (a couple of weeks ago) the KP-100S from our good buddy DanO, and looking forward to receiving mine when Motion Sound ships out it's initial release in Mid-April. RJ: Like you, one of the reasons I went ahead and pre-ordered the smaller KP-100S (both unseen & unheard) was based on the Pro's recommendation of the 200S. I hoping the smaller version will be adequate to handle the smaller rooms, and now after reading your post, that it can act as a stereo stage spot monitor as well. I'm particularly encouraged to hear (from you) that the KeyPro Unit can even be situated in front of you facing the audience and still act as a monitor as well. Thanks again for your input. - Scott

Scott... A pair of PM5s should work OK for a very small > 30 venue... again, minus bottom end (for me, a big sacrifice and I would only use for a small nursing home gig), but great for monitors. They cover vocal range very well.

I've never used them for keyboard only, but PA monitors for myself and vocalists, run thru the Carvin PA1200. However, they would produce significantly better than the XD9 speakers. I'd A-B them for you, but I'm in sunny Fla for March. Again, for the price, weight, and quality it's hard to go wrong.

Reply to Scott Langholff: Didn't mean to be cryptic. I debated even including the comment in my post since it was somebody else's comment and I don't know which Barbetta amp he compared the KP-200S to. He thought the KP-200S was much better than the Barbetta amp he had been using. He now uses the KP-200S amp. He also sells Motion Sound products so there may be a bit of bias. But, I accepted his word that he wouldn't sell it if he didn't use it. (Maybe I'm niave - I live in Minnesota.) Motion Sound's other products are geared toward the Hammond organ sound and he is a Hammond rebuilder so the product line is a natural fit. I am reminded of some prior posts in which JBL Eon speakers were compared to other brands and it wasn't stated which JBL Eon's were compared - the original or the G2. I haven't heard a Barbetta amp so I can't make a comparison. I do know the KP-200S sounds much better than a Polytone Taurus Elite amp. But, probably only accorion players have ever heard or heard of the Polytone line.

RJM

Maybe for smaller venues you could use Advent Powered Partner speakers. I think the 550 model is rated at 35watts per channel. You can daisy chain these powered speakers. From my experience, you can't turn them up all the way without distortion, but they can get pretty loud. They weigh 8lbs apiece. Maybe they could fit on your Tyros' speaker brackets.

I use a headset mic which is right on my lips, so I have never had feedback. But I will try putting the Motion Sound KP-100S amp in front of me when I get it.

Beakybird
Beakybird

RJM,

I used a Polytone Mini Brute for years and loved it. Some thief took it out of my garage. It weighed 30 pounds and kicked a..! I'd still use it if I had it.

Tom

Polytone Mini Brute

Yamaha has introduced a new powered speakers called the MSR100. This is a 24lb 100watt monitor or main unit featuring 1 XLR or 1/4" mic or line input, 2 1/4" line inputs each with their own volume controls and a master treble and bass control plus a master volume control and a 1/4" link out jack. There is a 8"bass woofer and a 1" titanium driver. The cabinet can be mounted on a speaker stand with two supplied threaded holes on the bottom or it can be laid down on the floor as a stage monitor with it's slanted design. It has a suggested retail price of $479.00. One, two or several of these could be used as needed. I've been using these in a keyboard setup at my store using a small behringer mixer and then taking the link outs to a larger system. It's been hard for customers to tell if I'm playing from the smallish MRS100's or from a pair of Yamaha S15e speakers and a EM68S powered mixer.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Scott,

I have never looked into vocal monitoring, but I do not see what going with Carvins is buying you:

- The 5" speakers will NEVER handle bass at any significant volume - this is a major drawback to me (and I think to most arranger players, who have to hear the lows of the accompaniment to keep pace, or at least I do). In fact, the specs don't say if the 86 Hz is a 3 dB, 10 dB, or "Usable" frequency.

- The amplifier puts out only 50 watts per side in stereo. This is not so much.

- You end up having to carry three pieces - the two speakers and an amplifier. I could understand if you wanted to use small powered speakers, e.g. Galaxy Hot Spot (also not much bass but built in amp) not requiring a power amp, but unpowered speakers???

You might as well stay with the Tyros speakers - also three pieces, predictable frequency response, no problem mounting, and you already have them. I have my MS50s, similar to the Tyros speakers, and the only thing I don't like about them is that they are white, not black.

Regards

note: although the description says: 'you get the full audio spectrum from 86 to 19.5 kHz, the official techical spec sheet states: 75 Hz to 19.5 kHz, plus or minus 3db.




50 watts per channel is still more than double the output currently going to my Tyros satellite speakers: 20 watts per channel. Won't the PM5's with 50 watts going into them provide at least TWICE the volume? I was just hoping the PM5's would solve my biggest complaint about the Tyros satellite speakers: insufficeint volume output, and unimpressive mid range sound reproduction.

The BIG problem I find with the Tyros Speakers (and small satellite speakers which rely on a sub woofer in general), is that though high and low frequencies sound impressive, the mid-low frequencies seem to be lacking. I PREFER hearing a SMOOTHER frequency response across the entire spectrum, even if it means sacrificing (a little) the lower bass.

Even though the PM5's have only 5-1/4" woofers, it's woofer size is actually over a 1/2 inch larger than the built in woofers on my Yamaha PSR2000. I think the PSR2000's built in speakers actually sound pretty decent (with adequate bass) for stage monitoring purposes. The Carvin Tech Rep assured me that the PM5's deliver dramatically improved (punchy) bass over the Galazy Hot Spots, but perhaps his enthusiasm may be somewhat colored because he has a vested interested in Carvin.

Alex, you've made some good points, and I appreciate your candid feedback. I still haven't decided whether I'll give the Carvins a free trial test drive yet, afterall, I'll be responsible for paying the shipping either way. Since I've already ordered the Motion Sound KP-100S, I have plenty of auditioning ahead to look forward to. I'll keep you all posted. - Scott

We went over all this before.
Twice the power is equal to 10% more volume only. You need TEN times the power to get twice the volume.

Yep... that's right...

Luis Santos

Excuse me for not having committed every one of your 3,468 posts to memory.- Scott

I din't mean it that way Scott. It was just a few weeks ago that the topic was drawn out in detail ...... I thought you were up on it. I didn't mean it to sound harsh.

Another reason NOT to get a silent slab as UD put it. I find this all amusing going back and forth, ordering this, sending it back, ordering that, sending it back. Scott, wouldn't it be easier to sell that mute board, hang on to your PSR 2000, then wait for the new generation boards to come out that have speakers built-in and all the other features your looking for? Plus if you do, you don't have to worry about lugging extra gear around with you every time you take it on the road. One thing I'll give to your credit: your persistent in your endeavor PS: If your determined to get your speakers I really hope you finally get the ones that make you happy.

Best regards,
Mike

hi Mike: Perhaps I need to clarify things. I really LOVE my Tyros KB (and even the Tyros speaker setup). Ok, ok, I'll admit I don't love the Tyros speakers as much as the Tyros itself, but they're definitely a big improvement over the PSR2000's built in speakers, and not much more of a hassle to setup either. The primary reason I'm searching for something better is just because the Tyros 'affords' that option, whereas the 2000 doesn't. I'm the type of guy always looking for a 'better mousetrap'. Aren't we all?! - Scott