Dropped D tuning (guitar) on keys

This might be the dumbest question ever. If you play guitar, you know how dramatic it is to simply lower the E-string to "D" from "E." Artists have made careers from this sound. That low bass note is seriously cool. Everything from James Taylor's "Country Road" to "Copperhead Road" by Steve Earle.

Just curious if anyone has ever figured out a way to capture any kind of nuance like this on a keyboard. In any way.

If I'm playing styles, my left hand is making chords. Well, I don't play in full-fingered mode, so maybe that's a killer there.

Yeah, probably a dumb question. Guess I'll just pick up my guitar and strum away.

Transpose down a key?
DonM

Well, actually, I do that almost 100% of the time. I like the sound of the lower octave in my right hand. That's a valid comment but I was specifically wondering about the sound of that one basss note. When you're playing dropped D tuning on guitar, you usually strike that low string only occasionally.

It just gives it a unique sound. Subtle but powerful.

We keyboard players play dropped 2 chords but what you want is something different...Right?

I don't know what a dropped 2 chord is.

It's probably a dumb question but here's the point: For guitar players, discovering dropped D tuning is like a "Eureka" moment. To quote Neil Young (I think it was): "It changed my life; I've never been the same." It's just a very cool sound.

So, if there is a way when playing a song, especially with guitar in it, if there is way to capture that unique sound. But I doubt there is. It's a guitar thing. You get the low bass note and some complimentary ringing due to the lower pitch or whatever that term is... other strings ringing in a different way.

Sometimes when I'm doing country, I use the pitch bend in many ways. Usually assigned to a pedal. If I want to drop two tones I set up the drop and assign to the pedal and can make it when I want, only thing is I havn't found anyway to assign to just one piano key, you have to make the note a solo or it drops everything on the right hand, but great for the last note of a song. Usually you can work the right hand in such a way to get everything off the board except the E for just a instant and get the drop.

Maybe Yamaha could put 61 guitar tuners right under each key in the front LOL.....Pose

SemiLiveMusic,
I play guitar too. You're right about the power in that particular tuning. However, I don't know how you'd accomplish this on a keyboard. If yout board had the ability to load samples you could do it that way. Wait strike that, just had an idea. How about splitting the keyboard?? Use the same guitar sounds in the split. Set the left hand part of the split to where you can have that really nice low note. Keep the range small so you can also have more room to solo on the right. Hope that made sense.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-31-2005).]

It wasn't such a dumb question. That's interesting.

Some day, it will be seriously cool to actually produce real guitar sounds on keyboard. They have a long way to go yet, it's amazing already.

Some kind of guitar style that contains the Dropped D note could be cool.

Hey Semi, how about keyboard companies make guitar voices with (alternate tunings) not just in drop D..???? It wouldn't be hard for them. There are a lot of guitarists who play the keys as well. Those voices alone may attract more buyers (possibly guitarists).

Squeak

http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/ms-primer-6-1-1-4.html

My Ibanez is setup so that the E string is tuned at Eb, while my Les Paul is tuned to the traditional tunings. Actually, every string on the Ibanez is a half step lower. I can play the flat chords and keys fine on Keys withpout transposing, but I gotta "cheat" on a guitar a little. Also, I like having a low Eb note instead of a low E.

Not being an expert on guitar ( or even close ), I am guessing though that what you guys are referring to is just the one string being tuned a step lower yes ? I wanna try this sometime, maybe on my acoustic. I think there is a way on one or more of my apps to change the tuning of only one ( or more ) note individually, but I'm not certain whether I could go a whole step down. Now I'm interested enough to try this.


BTW, many of the current better guitar emulations ( some of the Motif ES6 patches, Sonic Impants etc ) won't play notes below low E, because the keys below are reserved for different effects. I like to be able to play the low E "string" open as a low Eb here as well, so I have to transpose the KB when I want to go below low E, and this throws me a bit when I play keys, because otherwise I rarely use the Transpose feature. A few, like Real Guitar, allow you to transpose from within the app, but it still sounds funny to me when I hit a B key on the keys and a Bb comes out.

AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 06-01-2005).]

From the above:

Close Position and Drop Voicings
The simplest voicing for a four note chord is the close position voicing, in which all the notes in the chord are arranged as close together as possible. For example, a C7 chord might be voiced in close position as "C E G Bb". This is referred to as root position, since the root, C, is at the bottom. The chord might also be voiced in close position as "E G Bb C", which is also called the first inversion, since the bottom note has been inverted to the top. The second inversion is "G Bb C E" and the third "Bb C E G".

A drop voicing is created from a close position voicing by dropping one of the notes down an octave. If the second note from the top is dropped, the voicing is called a drop 2 voicing; if the third note from the top is dropped, the voicing is called a drop 3 voicing. For a C7 chord in root position, "C E G Bb", the corresponding drop 2 voicing is "G C E Bb". The second note from the top, G, has been dropped down an octave. The corresponding drop 3 voicing would be "E C G Bb". Drop 2 and drop 3 voicings can be constructed from any of the inversions of the chord as well. On the piano, the dropped note must normally be played in the left hand, so these are almost always two handed voicings. The intervals in these voicings make them perfectly suited for guitar.

Close position and drop voicings are effective when used to harmonize a melody, particularly in a solo setting. Each melody note may be harmonized by a different drop voicing, with the melody note on top. Pianists and guitarists often use this type of approach in their own solos. A phrase in which every note is accompanied by close position or drop voicings is said to be harmonized with block chords. Red Garland, Dave Brubeck, and Wes Montgomery all regularly played block chord solos.

As for Dropped D guitar tuning (which some say is erroneously named... it should be Dropped E tuning)... I guess it's three things going on. I just thought of the word -- "sympathetic" -- vibrations.

1. Lower bass note (from E to D)
2. Sympathetic vibrations (other strings ringing)
3. TWO "D" notes in the chord (for a D chord or a D minor chord.

Dropped D is one of the most popular altered tunings. Simple yet powerful. The D and Dm chords have a special ring. Of course, you have to learn the other chords with different finger positions. It's mostly used for acoustic guitar.

Bluesplayer, lowering all strings down 1/2 step does not achieve the effect Dropped D does. I detune one of my guitars 1/2 step but it's only so I can sing in a key 1/2 step lower for some songs.

Joanie Mitchell is the world's most prolific user of altered guitar tunings. It's bizarre, she uses so many. Makes 'em up.

Line 6 came out with the Variax guitars that can not only emulate many guitar and amp models but can also change to an altered tuning instantly.

My favorite altered guitar tuning is Double Dropped D. Lowering both the E-string and e-string from E to D. When I discovered that, MY life changed. I wrote three of my best songs in no time just being inspired by that different sound. Very cool. And it cannot be achieved in any other manner.

The Dropped 2 tuning that Fran posted, that's somewhat in line with the effect. But you don't get as much sympathetic ringing on keyboard, I suppose.

I kinda figured you guys were talking about just lowering the Low E string. I think I have an app or two that can simulate this by allowing me to tune one note differently ( in this case the low E ), but I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble, because most of my better emulations use the notes below for effects such as string plucks, slides and fret noises.

I think for me it's probably easier in the long run to actually play the D note below it if the particular patch allows me to go below E3. I am gonna mess with my Acoustic ( an older Yamaha ) to see how this is on a real guitar. I'm not a very prolific guitar player to begin with, so this likely won't make me sound any better ( lol ), but it might be a cool thing to try.

I don't know how Joni does it ( talent maybe ? lol ). Man I'd be a mess if I tried that. I lowered all the tunings on my Ibanez a half step mainly because a few of the "darker" songs I like to play sound a bit too cheery to me if they aren't played in the original key.


Regards

AJ




[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 06-01-2005).]

On the Ketron SD1, you can set a voice where the pitch bend only affects the lowest note of the chord. A couple of the steel guitars come from the factory set up this way. I suppose you could do what you want in that way, but I don't believe the Yamahas can be set to work that way. But I never tried it.
DonM

I'm not sure this is what you guys are talking about, but a few years back I played with a 'classic rock' group and when we did "Black Velvet" (Alannah Myles) the bass player tuned the E string down to D ...
t.
PS I know this doesn't help figure out how to do it on the kb, but ...

If I get the idea, we're talking about occasionally one note (or chord) here, so why not put that phrase in a Multi Pad (if your kb has that option). Whenever you need that tone, just push the Multi Pad button.

John

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Have a nice day

Semi,
I play guitar also and I know what you mean about lowering the low E-string to D to get a full D chord effect with regular tuning. Your talking about playing in the key of D I assume. It makes playing a full G chord a challenge though. I play Country Road and Rocky Mountain High that way. Maybe others, I forget.
I'm not sure how to get that sound on a keyboard. Maybe if you Split the keyboard to have a left hand bass sound and play left hand chords in a low root position(full or cheat) you can get that sound somewhat. You don't get the sympathetic string ringing but at least it's a full chord with a deep bass note. Hope that made sense.

Semi....
Why not just go for the new 7 string guitars, with a bottom "B".
Takes a bit of getting used to but the deep dirty power chords are incredible.
Just my thots.
btw...another great effect, particularly for a "D" chord, is to wrap your thumb, and play the bottom F#(which is the third of the D chord).I use it all the time.


Check with Nigel...he's a guitar player with a lot of experience.

...As for the kb end of, I don't see how detuning just 1 or 2 E notes would work because it would obviously affect any other chords requiring the E, unless of course you play the second or third inversion.

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...shboom



[This message has been edited by shboom (edited 06-01-2005).]

Uh, I've got the guitar under control. After 38 years. This is about getting a similar effect on a keyboard. Which is likely impossible at this time but it was worth asking since it is SO dramatic for guitarists.