Using the PLG150-DR with the 9000 Pro

Well, I found yet another reason to dislike Yamaha. I bought a PLG150-DR drum expansion card to use with my 9000 Pro thanks to some of the discussions we've had here. I realized that this card had the potential to improve my drum sounds, give me better editing control over the drums (includes an OPT editor), and free up polyphony on my keyboard when I'm playing. First, the drums of the PLG150-DR do sound very good - they have longer samples on the cymbals and generally sound clearer overall than the Live! drums of the 9000 Pro. The rest of the story is best summed up in a note I sent to their support department:
--------------------------------------------
To Yamaha Support:

I just bought a new PLG150-DR drum expansion card to go with my 9000 Pro keyboard. I had downloaded the owner's manual for the PLG150-DR before buying it and read on Page 15 that you could assign the Part number if you are using an XG-Plug-In System compatible "mother" device, which the 9000 Pro is. Unfortunately, now that I bought and installed the board I find that is not the case: I cannot set the Part number (i.e.: midi channel) for the PLG150-DR. Under the Native Parameters page there are no settings available at all. I am using OS 2.04 on my 9000 Pro and I'm pretty certain I have not overlooked anything. It appears that the only way I could possibly assign a midi channel to the PLG150-DR would be if I assigned the card to one of my R-1, R-2 or R-3 voices - which I am not willing to do because I need those for live playing of keyboard parts rather than drum parts.

First, the manual for the PLG150-DR doesn't say anything at all about the 9000 Pro and what limitations you'll have if you try to use the PLG150-DR with it. There is no reason why you couldn't have a page that lists all Yamaha instruments that the card can be installed in and what features you can or can't expect. Not being able to set the midi channel of this card is a ridiculous limitation that means I can't use it for midifile playback or accompaniment... but I could only learn this info by buying your card and installing it in my keyboard. Dealers who sell this card don't allow returns either.

However, since the 9000 Pro is part of the XG Plug-in family, it seems to me that the main reason I can't define a midi channel for the PLG150-DR with my 9000 Pro is because the keyboard's OS needs a slight update/modification to allow it to. So I am requesting that you please see if this is possible and I'd appreciate an answer so I'll know if this card belongs on eBay rather than in my instrument. I will share whatever information I get with other 9000 Pro users on the web so they will have better information than I did before making their purchases.
------------------------------------------------
Note: one further clarification not included above: the PLG150-DR by default is set to midi channel 1. So the only apparent way I could use it with my 9000 Pro currently would be to alter all of my midi files (several hundred) and my accompaniment settings so the drums would be on channel 1 rather than channel 10. I'm more likely to ditch the card than do that.

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 06-18-2003).]

Hi Jim (the Pro). A well composed letter to Yamaha explaining your very 'understandable' frustration. I hope that Yamaha responds by coming out with a 9000pro OS update adding essential midi channel assignment support for the PLG150-DR, as it indeed sounds like a very useful drum percussion card. Good luck and please keep us posted. - Scott

Yamaha's response:
------------------------------------------
Our pro studio type keyboards like the Motif simply have 16 Internal Parts and 3 Plug-in Parts, and you can assign any MIDI Channel to any Part. But the 9000PRO is a bit of a different beast, because even though it is at the top of the PSR line, it is an auto accompaniment keyboard designed for the home user with emphasis on ease -of-use. So instead of using the "Part" and "MIDI Channel" screens of the Motif (which tend to confuse and scare off PSR users), they made it so you just choose one of the sections (R1,2,3,L) for the Plug-in Board Part. If you press the [MIDI] button, select 'All Parts', press the [8v] button, set either R1,2,3,or L section to a desired MIDI Channel, the PLG150DR Board will respond if it is selected for that section. It is therefore assignable to any MIDI Channel, but you are correct in that it has to be via one of the R1,2,3, or L sections. However, this was part of the design and is not a bug. The operating system does not (recognize) the part type settings as some of our other keyboards and because of that could not be modified to do so. Hope this helps.

YCA Support
---------------------------------------------

If there was any doubt at all that Yamaha does not consider arranger keyboards to be professional-use keyboards, it should be laid to rest now. I feel like I've been patted on the head and told not to worry about unnecessary things like setting MIDI channels that might scare me...

What a disappointment! The 9000 Pro is a PSR! PSR is left off the name deliberately. If you go to the Yamaha website, the Tyros and 9kPro are listed separately from the PSR line. The "Pro" is a home keyboard? I though the advertisements emphasized its stageworthiness. A big oversight if the drum card can't be set to channel 10. Can't shake that arranger stigma. At least Yamaha does not skimp on the built-in sounds.

To be honest, I would be surprised if the drum expansion board did work properly with the 9000 pro. After all the 9000 pro accepts voice expansion cards, which you would assume enhance the keyboard voices of the instrument. I would have first checked with someone with the knowhow in Yamaha as to the extent of functionality of this card when playing it live from the 9000 pro, since again I assume the 9000 pro has limited control over new cards. Using a PC with the 9000 pro and midi is another question, here I would expect you to have fuller control over this card and access the sounds you require. It is possible maybe that you could direct percussion via midi back into the pro to trigger the card, but I'm assuming that this isnt the case?
This is obviously a very new expansion card, something I havent heard of before but it sounds quite nice. If you succeed in getting it to perform from the pro, I'd like to hear some samples from it if its possible... though it sounds as though you can only play it from the keyboard am I right?

Simon


------------------
__________________________________________________________
SVPworld.com - Creative Multimedia & Music
incorporating PSRworld and Tyrosworld

forum.svpworld.com - No adverts, No spam, No nonsense!
share your music, get help and advice, make new friends! All platforms invited!!

Pro,

From what I've been reading on this forum over the past year or so, it seemed to me the using midi files by a professional musician was verboten, that only a rank amateur would stoop so low as to resort to midi files. My question to you is: Is it acceptable, professional-wise, to use midi backing tracks when playing? I use midi backing tracks and, because of your years as a professional musican, value your input and insight regarding this item. Thanks for any enlightenment you can offer.

Peter

Originally posted by ThePro:

"If there was any doubt at all that Yamaha does not consider arranger keyboards to be professional-use keyboards, it should be laid to rest now. I feel like I've been patted on the head and told not to worry about unnecessary things like setting MIDI channels that might scare me..."

Sad but true. The 9000Pro carries the connotation of a "Professional" Keyboard hence the word 9000"Pro"fessional and Yamaha built the Keyboard with that in mind hoping to attract the Professional Musician. For the Tech person to give an answer like that just goes to show you that they Market a Keyboard one way but in actuality when the rubber meets the road the Keyboard falls short, "even by their own admission", albeit unbeknownst to the Musician who thinks he or she purchased a 'true' Professional grade Keyboard, having trusted Yamaha's spiel about the 9000Pro.

Yamaha should either "Fish or cut Bait" as they say. In other words: Focus on what your doing Yamaha or stop doing it altogether. If you market a Keyboard as Professional make sure when you sell it to an innocent person off the street that he or she can rest assured they are truly getting what they paid for and what they thought they were buying ie., a "True in every way Professional Keyboard". The Motif can be bought for 1/2 the price of the 9000Pro yet your worried that a 9000Pro user doesn't have the brains (he sure has the money though) to do serious professional level work on his Keyboard? Give him or her the tools, which, btw, he or she thought they were getting to begin with, and I am sure that person, if they don't already know how, will take the time and effort needed to learn about and use it to its intended full potential. They forked over the cash in the tune of twice that of a Motif 6. Give them more credit than what your Tech is conveying in that reply to ThePro. They trusted you when you said the 9000Pro was a professional grade Keyboard and were willing to pay the price on that assumption. Can you do no less Yamaha than give your customers a product that lives up to its 'name' in every aspect of the word "Professional"?

Best regards,
Mike

PS: I realize as CEO, Shuji Ito is trying to turn around less than stellar Business results Yamaha's Music Division was facing just a few short years ago, and he seems to be doing just that. But in the process Yamaha Music Division seems to be cutting corners on some of their products in the area of Quality Vs Quantity. You are mass producing your Keyboards and selling them at a reasonable price point in the hopes of attracting more customers which is commendable. But in doing that you are oftentimes leaving out the "Serious Professional Keyboardist" by producing less than "Professional Grade" Keyboards. The
very 'Customer' who has the potential of being your mainstay and also your substantial bread and butter are the ones you are not providing for.

Man!!!, how I wish that Shuji Ito visited this site. He could sure learn a thing a two from all our SZ members vast storehouse of Knowledge and insight and in what the Professional Keyboardist really wants and needs and demands in a Keyboard.




[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 06-20-2003).]

Peter, tell that to all the Motif users.
And to Stevie Wonder in particular. Although I am pretty sure most of them wouldn't use Midi backing tracks in a Live situation, but in their private studio I would have to think they most certainly would. That is the reason why Yamaha included Midi support and integration into the Motif so the user could do just that if and when he or she chooses. Even in a Live situation if the Keyboardist so desires.

Best regards,
Mike

Gotta run! Have an excellent day everyone!

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 06-20-2003).]

Hi Pro

If you look inside the tables for XGworks, the 9000Pro is listed as PSR-9000Pro. Just thought you'd like to know. Incidentally, I'm updating the XGworks tables for the 9000/9000Pro if you're interested. I've done the instrument definitions which are already installable and I'm working on the rest.

Bryan

P.S. I've modified the tables so the 9000Pro is listed as such but I had to lump it in with Portatone as there was no other place to put it!

This sounds like plain double talk to me, as Yamaha clearly marketed the Yamaha 9000pro as a Pro-fessional keyboard at NAMM. Now that they're caught with their pants down with this drum card midi channel assignment incompatibilty issue, they just turn the other cheek. It seems that Yamaha could solve this with a keyboard OS upgrade, but it's obvious they're just not interested.



Now that I hear you're able to configure XGworks to select/call up all the sounds (voices) in the 9000/9000pro, I'm now interested in finding how how to configure XGworks so it will do the same thing with the Tyros. Can you (or anywone else here) possibly provide step by step instructions in achieving this? Thanks. - Scott

Sorry Scott, but its much too complicated. Look in the archives of the Yahoo PSR Songs group. A guy by the name of John Frings has created the Tyros definitions.

Hi Bryan,
you're a whizz. I haven't had a chance to check my emails yet, but if you haven't already done so, could you pleazzzze send them to me.
My husband would be most appreciative, as I was going to try and do it myself. Instead I've been grumpy and pulling my hair out , trying to figure out how to do it.

Thanks a million
best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pilot:
[B]Hi Pro

If you look inside the tables for XGworks, the 9000Pro is listed as PSR-9000Pro. Just thought you'd like to know. Incidentally, I'm updating the XGworks tables for the 9000/9000Pro if you're interested. I've done the instrument definitions which are already installable and I'm working on the rest.

Bryan

Hi all:

I'm just returning from a long weekend of wedding gigs and this is my first chance to reply to some of the posts here.

Peter: I have been using midi files on stage since 1983 and plan to continue. Noone has ever questioned me about using midi files live - it's just what I do. This being an arranger forum means that most of the discussions are about arranger-use, which I also use live... but IMHO it's quite acceptable and professional to use midi files for backing in small solo gigs.

Simon says:
"To be honest, I would be surprised if the drum expansion board did work properly with the 9000 pro. After all the 9000 pro accepts voice expansion cards, which you would assume enhance the keyboard voices of the instrument. I would have first checked with someone with the knowhow in Yamaha as to the extent of functionality of this card when playing it live from the 9000 pro, since again I assume the 9000 pro has limited control over new cards. Using a PC with the 9000 pro and midi is another question, here I would expect you to have fuller control over this card and access the sounds you require. It is possible maybe that you could direct percussion via midi back into the pro to trigger the card, but I'm assuming that this isnt the case?
This is obviously a very new expansion card, something I havent heard of before but it sounds quite nice. If you succeed in getting it to perform from the pro, I'd like to hear some samples from it if its possible... though it sounds as though you can only play it from the keyboard am I right?"

Simon: The PLG150-DR is a year old now. I did not check with Yamaha directly before getting the PLG150-DR (not sure who I'd call) but I did review everything I could find about the card, including downloading the owner's manual and reading it before purchasing. The key phrase that indicated that this card would have a common-sense feature like midi channel assignment within the 9000 Pro was in the PLG150-DR owner's manual on Page 15, which says the Part Assign (Yamaha-speak for midi channel) can be set by "any XG Plug-In system compatible mother device". The 9000 Pro is part of the XG-Plug family and has the XG-Plug symbol on the front panel. If Yamaha really wanted to clear things up they could have a page in the owner's manual that lists every device the PLG150-DR is recommended for and/or what limitations it will have with devices it is not recommended for.

The only way to use the PLG150-DR in the 9000 Pro is to assign it to one of the R1, R2, or R3 or the L1 sound and then assign that voice to whatever midi channel you want, which would make those slots unuseable for other live-performance parts (unless you want to play a keyboard drum solo). This applies no matter how the midi input to the card is coming in, from keyboard or external PC. My problem would be solved if the drum card defaulted to channel 10 but it defaults to channel 1. As you asked, the only way to play the drum card's sounds is from the keyboard, unless I reprogram all of my midi files so the drums are on channel 1 (I might be able to reprogram the arranger so the accompaniment drums are also on channel 1 - I dunno). But that's ridiculous - even cheap drum machines that cost less than half of what the PLG150-DR cost have assignable midi channels.

Here's the kicker: there is clearly a panel under the 9000 Pro's Plug-In Manager for programming the drum card's "Native Parameters" - this is where you assign the midi channel of the drum card or any other expansion card on every other XG-Plug keyboard (Motif, MU128 etc.). On the 9000 Pro, this page comes up blank for the PLG150-DR. Clearly this is where the "part assign" could and should be accessable - but Yamaha has not written the 9000 Pro's OS to allow it to access the drum card's parameters. That's why I asked Yamaha to look into making this relatively simple, minor upgrade but they refused.

It's funny that Yamaha designed the 9000 Pro so that you can add sample memory, a hard drive and two expansion cards yourself but they assume the end-user would not sophisticated enough to need to set a midi channel for a device. Or (more likely) the person at Yamaha support that answered my support request just wanted to be rid of me. I'd love for Steve Deming to respond to this subject, but it seems likely that we already have as much of a response from Yamaha as we lowly home-keyboard owners will ever deserve in their minds.

I have the VL150 and AN150 cards. Understanding and getting these plug in cards to work properly in the Motif is no easy task either. The documentation that comes with the cards and the pdf manuals that are available for them do not really give the user any clue how to integrate the card to the board. As a Motif user, it really seemed as if the cards were actually designed for something completely different ( maybe the SXg1000 card ), but were available as an afterthought to the Motif. Yes, you have the independent slots and can assign the card sounds to any channel, but getting there when you don't know how..... what a chore. The Motif manual does not in any way address how to do it, and neither does the documentation that comes with the cards. The Motifator site gives some basic instructions along with .pdf files for d/l that somewhat explain it ( if one can decipher through the Yamahaspeak ) , but the only way I was able to really understand it and make the whole thing work was via the Motifator's user forum... The other thing is.. many of the editable parameters available in the cards themselves cannot be accessed from within the Motif. Much of it has to be done it via external software. Basic editing can be done from within, but, particularly in the case of the AN150, there is a lot of editing power that cannot be accessed from within. That's another reason that the cards seemed to be an afterthought to me for the Motif.. It's all good when your connected to the computer but.....

I came very close to going the 9000 pro route instead of the Motif because it has a lot of the "pro" features that I like from the Motif, plus it has the arranger, but I am glad I went the way I did, and this thread does nothing to change my thinking at all. It has nothing to do with the label "pro" for me ( I have a PSR2k and a PA80 ). It's just a feature issue and the want of a workstation to go along with my arrangers in my studio setup. I learned about Yamaha's true perception of their arranger boards and customers some time ago in dealing with repairs for my PSR740 and 2000. Exactly what is being said here was the way it was told to me by my dealer and Yamaha reps. If there was any doubt for anyone else, this thread should speak volumes. If that doesn't do it... go take a look at the Yamaha sponsored Motifator site. Think it's just coincidence that Yamaha doesn't sponsor any similar sites for their arranger users ?
Korg may or may not have the same perception for their arranger users, but if they do, at least it's disguised a whole lot better. The PA site is excellent and I haven't seen comments from the company that shows this kind of disparity in their perception of their arranger and workstation users. I just don't understand why Yamaha so openly does this. They GOTTA know that there are some pro level musicians using this stuff. There must be some reason and they reserve the right to market as they choose...

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 06-23-2003).]

This is very stupid on YAMAHA's part. The most probable use of the Drums card would be to use it's sounds from the drums part from the styles. But you can't do that.

YAMAHA, w a k e u p!!

Jim,

I have forwarded this issue to Japan to see what they think about an update. It might be a week or so before we hear back from them.

I'll let you know.


------------------
Steve Deming
Assistant Manager
Customer Support Dept.
Pro Audio & Combo Division
Yamaha Corporation of America

Since my last exchange with Steve concerning OPT voice editors for the 9000 Pro took a year to get a negative response from him, I didn't hold out much hope for a timely reply to his post this time either. So I posted a message about the PLG150-DR and the 9000 Pro on Motifator.com and got a PM from Phil Clendeninn (Senior Product Specialist, Yamaha Corporation of America) who basically promised also to look into this problem and report back this coming week. I'll let this group know if anything significant happens. Just thought I'd keep this subject active a while longer, though personally I don't see much hope.

Don't hold your breath. In my experience Yamaha is slow to reply, if at all, when they know the reply is going to be negative. Out of sight out of mind seems to be Yamaha's way of doing business.

If you are awaiting software updates for the 9000 Pro to include new features for OPT, I'm sure that is never going to happen. It seems as if the PLG cards and editing for those cards was an afterthought with Yamaha regarding the 9000 Pro and Motif. Perhaps that will be different on the Motif ES but that's of little consolation to the 9000 Pro and Motif owners.

Yeah I know. Steve Deming told me "they were working on OPT panels for the 9000 Pro now" last year, then told me last month that it wasn't going to happen after all, so that much has been confirmed. And I don't expect Steve or Phil of Yamaha to go out of their way to help me solve my PLG150-DR/9000 Pro problem at all - they both volunteered to do that on their own and seemingly out of genuine concern. If it results in any progress at all, great... if not, I won't be any worse off.

I find it somewhat reassuring that at least two brave people at Yamaha do seem to take legitimate gripes from knowledgeable users seriously enough to promise that they will look into the problem and report back. They put their own reputation and Yamaha's on the line doing that when they didn't have to, so I respect them for that. At the same time, threads like this one let Yamaha know that arranger users are both demanding and technically knowledgeable enough to find the shortcomings of their products. They won't be making the same assumptions about us as they have in the past, and whatever eventually takes the 9000 Pro's place will be a better instrument because of it.

Final followup on this topic:

I have been in contact with Mark Anderson, Assistant Manager PKB Marketing, Yamaha America for the past few weeks. After getting some attention on the Motifator.com board with my problem with the PLG150-DR and the 9000 Pro, Mark took some time to follow up with me. First he apologized for the response from Yamaha Support regarding setting midi channels "scaring and confusing" 9000 Pro owners and reiterated that the 9000 Pro was considered a PRO board. He also said that they would take my advice to create a spec sheet for all expansion boards in the future that specified how the expansion boards work (or not) with each keyboard they can be mounted in. If the PLG150-DR continued in production and manual reprints were ordered, my suggestion will be included.

After a few weeks Mark finally got a response from the head engineer at Yamaha Japan who worked with the 9000 Pro: basically the PLG150-DR will never work with the arranger styles, however they thought it might work with midi files and they suggested that I place a System Exclusive message in the front of each of my midi files to set the PLG150-DR to midi channel 10, to wit:

XG Parameter Change: F0 43 10 4C hh mm ll dd F7
hh: 70 (Plug-In Board Part Assign)
mm: 05 (PLG150-DR)
ll: 00 (Serial number) *1
dd: 09 (Track10)

(All numbers are hexa decimal.)

*1 If two PLG150-DR boards are installed, 00 means choosing the first
board
and 01 means the second board.

I'm posting this here in case anyone else is interested in trying it, however it does not work, at least as far as I can tell. I tried several different sequencer programs, variation of the SysEx message and MIDI settings on the 9000 Pro to allow it to accept SysEx messages and never got it to work. As I told Mark, it looks like a good idea that noone at Yamaha actually tried. Besides that, I didn't relish the idea of modifying hundreds of my midi files anyway. Mark offered to exchange my DR board for another board or Yamaha product of equal value but I have declined.

The end of this story is that I'm no longer interested in getting the PLG150-DR to work with my 9000 Pro. It may find use in a future keyboard or I'll sell it. At least I was able to take my complaints higher up the food chain in Yamaha than I ever expected and was able to express several frustrations that I had with the instrument besides the expansion board limitations, such as their disregard for the OPT voice editing panels we'd been promised (it turned out that a third-party in Germany where the 9000 Pro is more popular had proposed creating the voice editors then dropped the idea). I've been told that my concerns were spread throughout all the departments involved, for whatever gratification that was worth.

For every keyboard Dave, Donny, Don, the Pro Me and you guys buy to do a solo gig, Yamaha, Korg Roland etc. sells thousands of thousands to home owners that play with them once or twice a month.

We here who derive a living using arranger keyboards and those of us here who are wannabees, are the minority. Do you know of any business that caters to a minority for profit. If you do, I'll bet that they don't make arranger keyboards

How many members do we have here on the forum? 30, 60, 100, 1000. It's nothing to a business that wants to sell thousands of thousands of keyboard. We are meaningless to these companies. They want to sell thousands of these keyboards to home owners. Not 25 to us forum guys. I figured this out 2 years ago. It's obvious. It it not.

We here on the forum are nothing to these companies. They laugh at us all the way to the bank.

That's how it looks to me. I'm just happy they are usable for wht I want to do. Play my sax and sing a little bit.

Life's a drag! Live it!

Don't sell us or yourself short brickboo. We are the ultimate consumers for arranger keyboards, the final testing grounds, the proof. While we may be a minority in the big picture, we are the ones that find the flaws that an entire team of engineers and marketing managers overlook. We directly affect the quality of their customer service. If there are lessons to be learned and improvements to be made in keyboard products, this forum and others like it is where they will show up first. That makes us worth more as a field testing unit than any company could ever hope to pay for and the smarter companies know it. That's why Yamaha has it's own forums like Motifator.com now.

There is a small ongoing war within keyboard companies between the design engineers and the marketing people; each trying to figure out what the consumer needs/wants, will buy and use, and will be profitable to produce while keeping brand standards at their peek. Guessing what the customer wants is nothing compared to getting direct feedback from heavy users like us. You can bet that every word here is read and when real problems surface, it sets gear into motion that we may not be able to see but are certain to improve the products we currently own or their next generation. In fact, as soon as we are compliant about the flaws and shortcomings of our instruments, they will stop improving.

Even after I told Yamaha's Mark Anderson that I was frustrated and willing to give up on making the PLG150-DR work with my 9000 Pro, he sent me a message from where he is on vacation that he will personally try to make the drum expansion card work with a 9000 Pro as soon as he could. I believe him. In fact, I have no doubt that several of my stubborn complaints have already caused changes in Yamaha's customer service, documentation, marketing and design.

We should not take ourselves for granted - in the eyes of companies like Yamaha, meeting our needs is the goal line.

Jim,
Mark is a good man, and if he said he'd address it ... he will. I remember speaking for hours about the psr2000 with him. I think he was the right set of ears to dump on.

No matter how they improve arranger keyboards in the future people will complain about their wants and needs. Everyone uses them differently and unless they are custom made for you we will always have to settle and compromise on features on like it or not. I for one being a pro and coming up with arrangers from the beginning appreciate the unbelivable technology and count my blessing up to this point to be able to create music with them on such a high level at such a low cost to make a living. can they be better?....sure......will they improve?.....of course....so just hang in there and things will change & change as the years go by.
It's Technology in its Infancy my friends....theres much more to come beyond your wildest dreams if we're around long enough to see and experience it !!


Jam On

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-29-2003).]

I agree and disagree DNJ. Sure, technology marches on - but what about true mistakes? What about when companies release products that do not have sufficient documentation? Or have not been tested adequately? What about operating system bugs that we find but manufacturers do not? These things do not get cured by osmosis - they require feedback and interaction. Sure, individuals will have individual needs but if they are not unreasonable needs then it's the manufacturer's responsibility to address them.

Everything I have complained about in this particular thread has been a combination of product oversights and insufficient documentation, and that much has also been acknowledged by Yamaha and they are acting to fix the problems. They wouldn't be if I hadn't provided some motivation.

Jim,

Its like I said .....for me I hardly ever have any problems with most arr keyboards the way I use them to play music....but others do have issues......due tho their style of performing. If Im not happy I jsut get rid of it and hope the next one witll solve the problems of the last one....I'm not going to get a headache worring about manufacturers screwups, bugs, and whatever else they Don't Do correctly. You would think after all the time it takes and the time we have to wait for these Kb's to come to market they would be almost perfect but thats not the case. Its just plastic and circuit boards nothing more.
Life is to shore...if it aint what makes me happy ...I just chuck it!!

I truly wish I could "chuck" my 9000 Pro in favor of something better or more suitable for me - nothing of the sort exists or is even in the works to my knowledge, by Yamaha or anyone else. I even told Mark Anderson that if they were coming out with a replacement for the 9000 Pro or an upgraded model, I wouldn't be bothering him (he didn't take the bait). So for all I know, the 9000 Pro is the keyboard I will be using for years to come. Might as well make the best of it, especially if it means improving it.

Right back at ya Jim......just hang in there like we're doin for now and who knows? At least we're doing "What We Love" and thats a Good Thing my friend!! What will be Will Be..
and Im sure we'll be right there when it does....don't you agree?


goto run to a gig .......


Enjoy the Holiday weekend!!