Roland needs a WAKE UP call

We have the E series (E12,E14,E28,E38,E40,E68,E300,E500,E500) replaced with EM15, EM25, EM55.(Here Roland sucks)

We have the G600,G800,G1000 replaced with VA3,VA7,VA76 (Here Roland wins)

I think roland should discontinue the EM series because they are lacking compared to similar priced arrangers from Yamaha.

Roland seriously needs a wake up call. They need to introduce a whole new lineup of E series and they better make next years VA series replacement something special if they want to outlive the competition.

You will give Roland a wake-up call when you buy yourself a keyboard from another manufacturer. (I would). And change your call name to "FormerRolandFan". All our poss here (and attempts to contact the company directly) seem to be falling on empty ears. The only message they will understand is when people start voting with their wallets. I am sure they are getting the message seeing people returning their Fantoms and getting the new Motifs ES instead. I bet they will be dropping prices on the Fantom very soon. I am also sure that their next "high-end" instrument will have features more on par with the Motif. The same must happen with the arranger keyboards for them to come up with the new product.

I have to disagree with you, however- replacing the G1000 with the VA76 also sucked.

Regards

You could say I 'm not planning on getting any motif ES and I will keeep my fantom S. also I haven't heard of alot of people(except for Trtjazz)returning there fantoms for motifES. The roland is just better in my opininon. Roland will probably come up with a new line very soon.and I trust that they learned there lesson(the fantomS is one of the proofs). so just relaxe and wait. I would rather have them not rush things than rushing and loosing at sales.

[This message has been edited by vic83 (edited 09-06-2003).]

Lack of buttons on the VA series was a step backwards so I guess I agree with you on that.

I think people are already voting with their wallets. I checked Rolands sales figures and since the mid 90's sales dont look great.....

How or where did you get there sales numbers?

How can you make such a statement when you have not even played the Motif ES? You can keep your Fantom S but please reserve your judgement until you have at least played the Motif ES Vic83. If you are basing your assertion because of the Fantom S's larger LCD screen and easier to use interface then yes; I would agree that the Motif ES would be more challenging to use and Navigate within the OS because of its smaller screen. But if you are basing your assertion on the quality of sound or other features then I would on the most part have to disagree with you. The Motif ES sounds out of the Box are, from what I've heard, far superior to most of what you get out of the box with the Fantom S. And the Motif ES in many cases runs circles around the Fantom S when you compare feature for feature. Some of those are: 64 note Polyphony (NO expansion of Polyphony) vs. 128 note Polyphony (WITH expansion of Polyphony) for the Motif ES. Up to 288MB Sample RAM vs. up to 1 Gigabyte Sample RAM for the Motif ES. The Motif ES has a Breath Controller feature, and Sliders - which don't exist on the Fantom S. 64MB Wave ROM vs. 175MB Wave ROM on the Motif ES. The Motif ES has a 76 Key version. The Fantom S does not. Peace

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 09-06-2003).]

http://www.roland.com/worldwide/about/images/data_sales.jpg

I'm basing my views on the demos that I heard at motifator.com. all those numbers the motif ES has are great. But,

1- The fantom never ran out of polyphony and I like to use allot of layers.

2- Navigation are easy and awesome in the FantomS and I tried the original motif and wasn't impressed with the OS and from what I heard(from yamahaUS)the OS of the MOTIF ES is the same as the motif.

3- The SRX expansions are great and you have 9 of them to chose. and you can add 4X of them. should try them if you get the time.

4- The fantom loads your samples when you power up which is a plus comparing to having to load up samples every time you have to power up in the motifs.

5- The MotifES can hold 512MB of samples which is great but it's RAM not ROM and if you want to save it, smart media cards can hold only 128MB so you can't. what's that you say? USB? well you need a computer and you need TIME. AND enjoy the Awesome sample transfer time that Yamaha has(way slow!). can't understand why they didn't have USB2.0 built in it?

I can go more but really it's all an opinion thing and what your needs is and personally the FantomS suits me.

I owned E 20,30,70,66,86,96; G 600,800,1000.EM2000,Va7. The last serious arranger made by Roland was G1000,IMO.
Here in Brazil we are feeling some dark clouds in the Roland arrangers sky.The majority of kbdists,went to Yamaha,Korg and Ketron.

Chico

wow...you've done the full circle

Vic83, actually the Motif ES can handle up to "1 Gigabyte" of Sample RAM just for the record. And yes, I agree with you that I would have rather the Motif ES have USB 2.0 capability too. But let me say this; if for example you had 512MB of Sample RAM data on the Motif ES to transfer,- even though the largest Smart Media Card is 128MB and you couldn't transfer all the data to the SM Card; you could buy an external USB Storage Device, ie., Thumb Drive, Flash Drive, USB Hard Drive, IBM Micro Drive, etc., which range in size from 32MB all the way up to '120GB' and larger. So you COULD transfer the Sample data that way by using the USB port on the Motif ES. The time it would take to transfer 512MB's is approximately 16 minutes over the Motif ES's USB port to an external USB storage device. But once the data is ON the USB storage device and if your computer has USB 2.0 ports and the USB Storage Device is USB 2.0 capable, then the time to transfer the Sample data onto your computer will take "MUCH" less time to do because USB 2.0 transfer rate is up to 480MB/sec.

But like you said, it is what a person needs in a Keyboard that is 'important' to him, and he has to base his purchase decision on that need. I am glad you are happy with the Fantom S and I am in no way trying to dissuade you from your purchase. But when you have the chance to demo the Motif ES in person; please do so, and don't just rely on MP3 demos to convince you to buy one or not.

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 09-06-2003).]

Mike,

I am glad to hear that the SM card capacity is not limited to 128 MB. Even if it was, one could use several cards, as they are quite cheap these days.

I am not sure you are correct about the USB storage devices - these are designed to connect into the USB Master port, like the one on the computer. Most KBs, (I am sure Motif falls into that category) have only a USB slave port. The USB storage devices can not be plugged into the slave port - you can only connect it to the master device.

Vic,

Indeed, comparisons of the keyboards is a very subjective matter. I am glad you are happy with your Fantom.

It's interesting you should mention the expansion slots. The four expansion cards you chose will cost about $900 - almost the price of another keyboard. All it is is memory expansion, and by constricting you to using their proprietary memory cards (of only 64 MB capacity), they force you to pay for the media, and not for the sounds themselves. Wouldn't you rather buy the sounds on a CD (even at $50 each set, would run you $200) and load them into non-volatile memory card (about $50) yourself, for a quarter of the price?

The idea of using proprietary memory cards is at least 10 years old - ancient in electronic terms. At least when you get a plug-in board from a Yamaha, you get a whole sound engine, with added polyphony. You get none of that from Roland.

I am not saying that Roland instruments are all bad, and the competition is all good. Each has their own strong points. However, I feel that Roland has lost its competitive edge, at least with the current product lineup.

Alex

Heck,
How about a Genesys and then you can load in Akai, Kurzweil and .wav via the internal CD drive. Awesome board!
Zuki

Hi Alex. The Motif ES has "2" USB ports on the back of it. One is a "To Host" USB port that makes it possible to hook it directly up to a PC by way of a USB Type B to Type A cable. The other USB port is a "To Device" port. With this USB port you can connect external USB Storage Devices to it. USB external devices like Thumb Drives, (Flash Drives), External Hard Drives, Micro Drives, etc. You can 'hook' a compatible USB Storage Device directly into the Motif ES's "To Device" port and the Motif ES will be able to read and write to that Drive. You can also hook up the USB storage Device to a computer's USB port (you can hook Thumb Drives - "Flash Drives" - directly or by using a Type A to Type A USB extension cable, and other type Storage Devices such as an External Hard Drive by way of a Type A to Type A USB cable.) And then transfer the data onto the computer's Hard Drive and then re-load it - (or other data) -back into the USB Storage Device and hook it back up the Mo' ES and load it back onto the Mo' ES. It seems it will be a very convenient and easy process to do.

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 09-06-2003).]

//Vic83, actually the Motif ES can handle up to "1 Gigabyte" of Sample RAM just for the record. //

Yes I know but Then how come Yamaha is not advertising the 1GB

//And yes, I agree with you that I would have rather the Motif ES have USB 2.0 capability too. But let me say this; if for example you had 512MB of Sample RAM data on the Motif ES to transfer,- even though the largest Smart Media Card is 128MB and you couldn't transfer all the data to the SM Card; you could buy an external USB Storage Device, ie., Thumb Drive, Flash Drive, USB Hard Drive, IBM Micro Drive, etc., which range in size from 32MB all the way up to '120GB' and larger. So you COULD transfer the Sample data that way by using the USB port on the Motif ES.//

So your saying Add Another $250 atleast to the motifES's price if you want one of those 120GB USB storge or one of those $700 1GB memory cards? then it goes to the price of the Triton studio don't you think?

//The time it would take to transfer 512MB's is approximately 16 minutes over the Motif ES's USB port to an external USB storage device. But once the data is ON the USB storage device and if your computer has USB 2.0 ports and the USB Storage Device is USB 2.0 capable, then the time to transfer the Sample data onto your computer will take "MUCH" less time to do because USB 2.0 transfer rate is up to 480MB/sec//

So IF your preforming on stage and you got a computer with a USB2.0. then the motif should be loading fast which is a good thing. but if your at home or preforming and using the onbaord sampling. with MAXING out the "1GB" RAm and want to/exchange/save your work, you have to wait 32 MIN for the Keyboard to transfer the samples to the computer right? don't you think that too much waste of time?

//But like you said, it is what a person needs in a Keyboard that is 'important' to him, and he has to base his purchase decision on that need. I am glad you are happy with the Fantom S and I am in no way trying to dissuade you from your purchase. But when you have the chance to demo the Motif ES in person; please do so, and don't just rely on MP3 demos to convince you to buy one or not. //

So far after hearing alot of factory demos for every yamahas and then demoing the units it self. I have been disappointed and though the demos pretty much shows you the best the yamaha keyboard can do. and that is "my" own experince with yamaha keyboards. I do the same with rolands, find demos, listen and then finally go check out the board. what I find in the rolands is that it makes me creative when you start mixing sounds and tweaking it your self. you can really take the roland sounds to unlimited points. again that's my own experince and my own opininon.

So what ever makes you happy, go for it. it's as simple as that .

Best regards,
Vic

//Vic,
It's interesting you should mention the expansion slots. The four expansion cards you chose will cost about $900 - almost the price of another keyboard. All it is is memory expansion, and by constricting you to using their proprietary memory cards (of only 64 MB capacity), they force you to pay for the media, and not for the sounds themselves. Wouldn't you rather buy the sounds on a CD (even at $50 each set, would run you $200) and load them into non-volatile memory card (about $50) yourself, for a quarter of the price?//

You have both choices. you can buy sample CDS and load them in the fantom or you can expand the fantom's 64MB rom sounds to 320MB OF WAVE ROME DATE! .

//The idea of using proprietary memory cards is at least 10 years old - ancient in electronic terms. At least when you get a plug-in board from a Yamaha, you get a whole sound engine, with added polyphony. You get none of that from Roland.//

OK, as far as I understand it. those PLG boards have there own Polyphony for there own sounds right? like the MOSS with it's 6 VOICES. korg clamed that it increase the polyphonice from 62 to 68. but in reality it isnt, it's just adding total polyphony that the keyboard can produce. the 6 voice are for the moss board's sounds and the moss board sounds can not share with the triton's HI62 POLyphony. isn't it the same with yamaha?

-One nice thing about the fantom is Resampling. and the SKIPBACK SAMPLING feature. those too features pretty much allow you to just have unlimited polyphony and the resampled file only uses one note(polyphony)

//I am not saying that Roland instruments are all bad, and the competition is all good. Each has their own strong points. However, I feel that Roland has lost its competitive edge, at least with the current product lineup.//

No roland didn't lose. the FantomS is just not for you that's all .

Alex

[/B][/QUOTE]

Mike,

Thank you for describing this feature and correcting my misconception. I did not think that Motif was so elaborately designed - I am actually quite impressed that it is. While, like Vic, I wish Yamaha had implemented USB2.0 functionality on the Motif (they could have used it for multi-channel audio connection as well), it is refreshing to see that they have at least done the USB right.

I hope the competition (Korg/Roland/Ketron/etc.) and Yamaha's own arranger keyboard division learn from the design of the Motif's USB.

Regards,
Alex

Originally posted by: Vic83


"So your saying Add Another $250 atleast to the motifES's price if you want one of those 120GB USB storge or one of those $700 1GB memory cards? then it goes to the price of the Triton studio don't you think?"

"So IF your preforming on stage and you got a computer with a USB2.0. then the motif should be loading fast which is a good thing. but if your at home or preforming and using the onbaord sampling. with MAXING out the "1GB" RAm and want to/exchange/save your work, you have to wait 32 MIN for the Keyboard to transfer the samples to the computer right? don't you think that too much waste of time??


Answer to first question: First of all you don't have to get a 120GB Storage Device Vic83. You can get an 40GB External Hard Drive for around $119. NOTE: You have to install the DIMM Memory in 'pairs'. You can get "2" 512MB DIMMS for as low as $140.

NOTE: The reason Yamaha marketed the Motif ES as "512MB SAMPLE RAM" instead of 1GB SAMPLE RAM is because Yamaha felt compelled to go with the lower figure because of Load time issues - even though it CAN indeed support up to 1 GB of Memory. Yes, it would be roughly 32 min. to load/transfer 1GB of data to/from the Motif ES. But 512MB will only take roughly 16 min which is not all that bad considering.

Answer to 2nd question:

But how many times would a person actually transfer that much data on the Motif ES at one time??? My guess is it would be once in a Blue Moon. Tell you what Vic83; if you ever decide to transfer that much data at one time on the Motif ES just let it start transferring and then start thinking about all the advantages you gained by buying the Motif ES over other Synth Workstations and by the time you finished counting all the advantages the Mo' ES would have already finished transfering the data!

PS: If you are on Stage and have a Laptop computer with USB 2.0 capability and transfer data to the Motif ES and transfer data from the Motif ES to the Laptop, the transfer speed would still only be USB 1.1 spec speed because the Motif ES's USB interface only supports USB 1.1. The only time the transfer rate would be USB 2.0 speed, ie., "480MB/sec., is when you have a USB 2.0 Storage Device, eg., (external USB 2.0 Hard Drive), and you transfer the data on it into a USB 2.0 capable Laptop or Desktop or from the USB 2.0 capable Laptop or Desktop back into the USB 2.0 external Hard Drive Storage Device, etc. ALL data going directly into or out of the Motif ES itself will always be at USB 1.1 specification speed.

Best regards,
Mike


[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 09-06-2003).]

That's great. So if I understand correctly, a person may chose to pay more to expand the wave ROM, or pay less money to get the sounds they need using the other approach. Since I usually prefer to pay less money rather than more, especially when the end result is the same, having the expansion slots is not a benefit to me, that is worth mentioning.



This is exactly the problem. While I presently own two Roland boards (and would not be averse to upgrading my G1000 to the new model, should it prove worthwhile), there is nothing in Roland's current lineup that I have interest in using. Judging from the sales figures which RolandFan cited above, I am not alone. Therefore, Roland did lose.

I believe in healthy competition, and would like to see Roland continue to be a force in the musical instrument market. That is why I am hoping that Roland will be interested in reversing the downward direction of its sales chart, and will offer something that I (and others like me) would be interested in buying. Otherwise, the competition will take care of Roland, in which case all of us, whether we own Roland instruments or not, will be worse off.

Regards,
Alex

//Answer to first question: First of all you don't have to get a 120GB Storage Device Vic83. You can get an 40GB External Hard Drive for around $119. NOTE: You have to install the DIMM Memory in 'pairs'. You can get "2" 512MB DIMMS for as low as $140.//

Options, options, options, you know what the greatest thing about Roland? is that you don't have ot buy options to get somthing out of your keyboard. fantomS costed $40 (yes $40)for a 256MB upgrade and that's about it. The motif ES doesn't even come standered with digital out!

//NOTE: The reason Yamaha marketed the Motif ES as "512MB SAMPLE RAM" instead of 1GB SAMPLE RAM is because Yamaha felt compelled to go with the lower figure because of Load time issues - even though it CAN indeed support up to 1 GB of Memory. Yes, it would be roughly 32 min. to load/transfer 1GB of data to/from the Motif ES. But 512MB will only take roughly 16 min which is not all that bad considering.//

Well your proving my point . and by then your probably will loose the will for playing the ES.

//Answer to 2nd question:

But how many times would a person actually transfer that much data on the Motif ES at one time??? My guess is it would be once in a Blue Moon. Tell you what Vic83; if you ever decide to transfer that much data at one time on the Motif ES just let it start transferring and then start thinking about all the advantages you gained by buying the Motif ES over other Synth Workstations and by the time you finished counting all the advantages the Mo' ES would have already finished transfering the data! //

I can do that one time but I'm not going to do it forever you know .

//PS: If you are on Stage and have a Laptop computer with USB 2.0 capability and transfer data to the Motif ES and transfer data from the Motif ES to the Laptop, the transfer speed would still only be USB 1.1 spec speed because the Motif ES's USB interface only supports USB 1.1. The only time the transfer rate would be USB 2.0 speed, ie., "480MB/sec., is when you have a USB 2.0 Storage Device, eg., (external USB 2.0 Hard Drive), and you transfer the data on it into a USB 2.0 capable Laptop or Desktop or from the USB 2.0 capable Laptop or Desktop back into the USB 2.0 external Hard Drive Storage Device, etc. ALL data going directly into or out of the Motif ES itself will always be at USB 1.1 specification speed.//

Makes perfect sense!thanks for the info!

//That's great. So if I understand correctly, a person may chose to pay more to expand the wave ROM, or pay less money to get the sounds they need using the other approach. Since I usually prefer to pay less money rather than more, especially when the end result is the same, having the expansion slots is not a benefit to me, that is worth mentioning.//

First of all, let me tell you that only 10% of the keyboard musicans I know.likes to go throw loading samples ans tweaking it them selves. the rest of them like to tweak or adjust a sound that exisit in the keyboard already. the SRX advances in every catagory liek piano,techno,world sounds.

Now let's talk prices. to me the SRX is actully priced very good. for example. I just ordered the World expansion board. this SRX unit has all sounds from "FOUR" redone SRJV80 exb boards. now those 4 exbs will cost you around $900 to get if you order them. Roland is offering all four of them in ONE SRX board for less than $300. does that make sense? besides can you tell me if there is one manfacture that offers EXB boards that crosses 64MB worth of samples?

don't think so.

//This is exactly the problem. While I presently own two Roland boards (and would not be averse to upgrading my G1000 to the new model, should it prove worthwhile), there is nothing in Roland's current lineup that I have interest in using. Judging from the sales figures which RolandFan cited above, I am not alone. Therefore, Roland did lose.

I believe in healthy competition, and would like to see Roland continue to be a force in the musical instrument market. That is why I am hoping that Roland will be interested in reversing the downward direction of its sales chart, and will offer something that I (and others like me) would be interested in buying. Otherwise, the competition will take care of Roland, in which case all of us, whether we own Roland instruments or not, will be worse off.//

so you don't like

XV5080
XV5050
XV2020
XV88
FANTOM 76
FANTOM S
FANTOM S88
RD100
RD700
VR760
MC-909
MC-8000
RS-50
RS-70
EM-15
EM-55
VA-76
VA-7
VK8M
AX7
A37
V-SYNTH
VP-9000
VK8
DISCOVER5
VARIOS

all of them sucks? there must be something you like really. tell me if I'm wrong.

Well I prefer the Fantom too, Its hard to judge the Motif by listening at the demos only, But the Motif, like almost every other Yamaha synth, shared one bad idiosyncrasy, and thats its canned and synthetic sound, Every time I hear a Yamaha I can clearly hear that, its like a typical sauce greased all over their sounds.
And I honestly dont get those people who just say "You can't go wrong with Yamaha", thats not true, You CAN go wrong, I was so full of confidence that the PSR-2000 I tried had to sound fantastic, But I was greatly dissapointed when I heard it live, also tried the Tyros briefly, and sounded a bit better, but it still was a dissapointment.
Its a pity cause Yamaha has almost everything right except the sounds.
Just my opinion, No offence...

Greetz ,
Marcel

No, I don't like any of them. Several times I forced myself to a local music store which has a VA76 sitting on display for near 2 years not, and they keep lowering its price to make it more palatable to someone like me, just to try to convince myself that it is worth for me to upgrade to it from my G1000. It usually takes me less than 20 minutes to come across some feature which I use normally, but can not get to without wading through the menus on the VA76, or which does not exist on it anymore.

Obviously, you have not tried to use it in a live situation, otherwise you would not be listing it in your message above. Ditto for VA7, EM series, etc.

I am not saying that all of its products are crap, but if I want to get a good sample player, I would go to a PC-based sampler, which can stream unlimited amounts of sample data, rather than buy the XV-series box. For a sample-player keyboard, I'd chose a Motif ES over a Fantom S. In addition, Roland products are generally more expensive than the competition.

As for a piano, I have my baby grand to play, so I don't need an electric one. The arranger keyboards I have already addressed.

So no, there is nothing in the above list that I would really want to buy. Sure, if someone gave it to me for free, I would take it and use it (as many big name musicians do, as you can see from Roland promotional lit), but for my money there are better options.

Having said that, I am glad that Roland can still find a market among people like yourself. BTW, what roland products did you buy?

I love Rolands. I have owned many models in the last 30 yrs., but I can't think of one new Roland keyboard I want to buy. The Fantoms look like s*^t, and the operating system is prohibitive IMHO. I really miss my XP50, and I might take a VR760, but that's it. I would only consider a G1000 as an arranger.

Roland needs to look at the market, but remember that its customers love its sounds. We have put up with the old Roland OS til now, so don't give us a spaceship; give us a solid keyboard system. For me, the VR-760 with arranger functions would do the trick. I don't really need or want speakers on my arranger, but I could put up with them if Roland could get back into the race. My Yamaha PSR2000 was the best bang for my bucks when I bought it, but I'd love to return to the Roland stable. R U LISTENING, ROLAND ???

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 09-07-2003).]

I love some of the sounds of the VA76. Navigation of it's OS along with a few other things ( kept me from buying it, too much money to spend onm a backup that I won;t use very often )and I did not see any distinct advantages ( for me ) vs the PA80 I have. If the prices were similar ,I'd dump my PS2000 in a heartbeat for it. I might give the EM2k / G1000 another look as a backup if I can find one of those for the right price.

I liked the Fantom series boards, but I just like the Motif series boards better. Ironically, I like some of the features and navigation of the Fantom / Fantom S better, but the Motif just has those sounds that I love and it just feels and sounds more "right" to me when I play it.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with a lot of the Roland boards. It's simply that none of the recent offerings really fit as well for me vs those from Yamaha ( Motif ) and Korg ( PA80 ). Could be a completely different story for another player.

AJ

Don't think for one minute Roland is not reading these posts and listening to peoples needs or isn't in the process of manufacturing new arranger type keyboards. Hang in there......Patience is a virtue.

Cassp,
A VR760 arranger!! Hmm. That would interest me as well. Donny says Roland is listening. Heh Roland, I would be very interested in a VR760 arranger also.
Starkeeper

There are rumors that Roland will come out with a new arranger in the spring. Looking at the history of the company, I am expecting an arranger with phanton sounds, probaly at first as a 61key version with speakers and then a few months later a 76key version without speakers. The people at roland have been proven to come out with very good and succesful products. I think they missed the boat on profesional players when they came out with the VA series. I still own my g1000 and i would only trade it when roland came out with a board that has better sounds, more expansion possibilities, and more intro's fills and endings. To me there is no keyboard out there that beats the g1000 in accesibility of features during life performance. I am confident that roland recoginces this and that the new arranger will change the marketplace again, just like they have done in the past. And yes, a VR760 arranger would be a very good idea!!!

Can a VR arranger even beat the tyros ?

Donny,

I certainly hope that someone at Roland is listening. Heck, for all I know Vic could be one of the Roland people himself . I intend my comments to be heard by Roland. If I sound a little harsh, it's because after owning Roland products and using them as my main boards for well over 10 years, I have come to realize that when I try to word my suggestions to Roland nicely, they get ignored. For years Roland had no way to be contacted - no e-mail, no contact phone # for its customers. I understand that there are the e-mail and phone number; however, I understand that this is still not the way that calls Roland's attention to the voice of the customers.

IMO, the only way to give Roland a wake-up call is to give it a kick in the arse.

I am not against Roland, I just want them to again start making products that I would want to buy. But this is not going to happen if they go after the DJ or guitar market, or start adding some wierd new controller instead of making their current keyboards more usable. And they can only do that if they listen to what users like me need. So far they have done a dismal job of listening. If we scream loud enough, this may change.

Regards,
Alex

Currently I 'm using the Fantom-S. I did OWN The Rs-5/XP30/E500or/E40or/E36. played with an EM-2000(band's keyboard) for a long time too.

Hey alex,
No I don't work for roland however I did used to work for a company that particpated in three keyboards with sounds and styles. E-40OR and E-500OR and the recently EM-55OR.

Vic,

I was just kidding. I did not really think you work for Roland, despite your defence of their product.

Let's hope that Roland will return to its old glory soon.

Regards,
Alex

Since arranger Kb's are for the most part played and owned by more of an adult crowd....
I would think 40-80 age group...I hope as time goes on and more YOUNGER people lean toward "OTHER" means to "make music"... manufacturers won't put the effort into a dwindling market and forget about us!....lets hope not!

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-11-2003).]

Ok - my final thoughts on Roland for what little they are worth:

I wish I had a dollar for every Roland piece I've owned - I can't even list them all. But they've stumbled and bumbled products over and over in the past ten years and after a while you've got to ask yourself how many more of their mistakes you're willing to finance or suffer with. I swore off Roland after I mistakenly bought the infamous "Roland Studio Pack" recording system and Roland proved to me first-hand how ignorant and user-unfriendly a company can be. I then sold every piece of Roland gear I had and y'know what - I feel better now.

If you've followed my thread about my experiences of late with Yamaha, you know that they aren't perfect either. But at least they stuck with me on a difficult problem I had and saw it through until it was solved, and my concerns went all the way to the keyboard design engineers in Japan and back again. It took some time and some talking, but this would be unimaginable with Roland.

There is no reason to remain loyal to a company if it can no longer keep up with the times. Roland isn't the same company as it used to be and it shows in everything they do, or don't do as the case seems to be with things like arrangers. Wishing and "wake-up calls" won't change that. So RIP Roland... time to move on.