OT: Budget studio

[img]http://acapella.harmony-central.com/foru...&postid=3625598[/img]
Thought you might like to see this small studio I have setup for an advertising company to do music beds with. Pictured here are:

QuikLok Z-stand w accessories
Kurzweil PC2x - master controller
Roland DS-50a monitors
(on the tray below the keyboard)
JLCooper CS-32 Minidesk
Mini QWERTY keyboard
Optical trackball mouse
(right side)
Dell 1.7 GHZ/640MB RAM PC w/200Gb external HD
EZ/CD printer
(top)
Samsung 170 LCD monitor
AT4050 mic
(not shown on rack below tray)
Behringer 8024 EQ
Alesis Studio 12R mixer

This studio relies heavily on softsynths so the computer has an M-Audio Delta 1010LT audio card in it. Software includes Cubase VST/32, Reason, Sonar, V-Stack, Acid, Sound Forge, some NI instruments.

The CS-32 control surface is used mostly with Sonar currently but hopefully it'll interact with other programs soon - this product is still being developed by JLCooper and it only partially works with Sonar right now, but the size and form was irresitable for the spot below the keyboard.

The CD printer allows CD's to be produced and printed directly. The mixer is used to mix to monitor from many of the sources from the 1010LT audio card, which has 10 in/10 out plus MIDI. The mic is just on display - it is used in a small isolation booth nearby.

Everything works very well so far (except the CS-32 control surface which will take some time). I forget the exact $ that went into it but I want to guess about $7500. Comments welcome.

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 04-22-2003).]

Very handsome setup. Neat, clean and functional. I like it.

Thank you UD. I am most proud of the ergonomics between the keyboard and the control surface/keyboard/mouse. It has nice flow and reach to it.

This is a fine setup.... but I wonder :

a. At what height are the keys to play ?
b. The panel on which the computer keyboard is positioned, what is the height ?

To be honest, I expect one's knees to hit the lower panel and the keyboard keys are slightly too high (?)
Please correct me if I'm wrong !

I myself have been in a struggle for a long time to find the best solution for me (!).

My 'work' desk (70 x 250 cm) is at 77 cm from the floor and on it I put the mixer, computer keyboard, printer, telephone and TFT flatscreen.

Monitorspeakers and DVD-player + Digi001 are on a (30 x 250) panel, at 38 cm height above the work-desk.

My SD1 keyboard stands on a heavy duty 'slider' panel directly under the work-desk. If not needed it is not even visible. Keys are 67 cm from the floor. No knee-contact at all.

The PC is ALWAYS too noisy, so I put her outside my studio. Through a tiny door I can reach the PC's front-devices from my seat.
(This is fantastic.... without noise !)
Accoustic instruments and vocals can be recorded IN my studio now.


Pro :
So my setup is similar but different

Roel

[This message has been edited by Roel (edited 04-22-2003).]

Neat!

Peter

Pro: Slick looking setup. Like Roel though, I'm interested to hear at what height (inches) from the floor, the top of the Kurzweil keys, and computer keyboard are at.

I'm also interested in hearing more about your EZ/CD printer: brand/model, price, CD printing quality, speed, etc. Thanks,

Scott

Let's see... the keyboard is 28 3/4" from the floor to the top of the keys. The company-provided chair is height-adjustable and at it's top height my wrist is just slightly above the keys - I would prefer a keyboard bench to raise my wrist even higher. The tray slides under the keyboard incidently. The computer tray is 22 1/4" from floor to the surface, and the chair can be adjusted down so I can barely slip my legs under it, but it's not very comfortable when I do. Right now I can reach everything fairly comfortably without trying to put my knees under the tray, but it's a little bit of a reach to get to the Kurzweil. I could put the wheels back onto the stand which would raise everything about 2 1/2". This is all stock QuikLok stuff by the way, including the computer tray. Hmmm... it's not ideal, and may need more thought/suggestions.

The PC is a little fan noisy. In my home studio I isolated the PC in it's own cabinet but here it is sitting on a QuikLok CPU stand attached to the Z-stand. Less than ideal for sure, but I can't think of a better way to set this up comsidering that the audio I/O's are all on the back of the CPU. Maybe put it in it's own little isolation cabinet if necessary. Fortunately no serious audio will be recorded in the same room as the PC and a small isolation room is nearby for voice-overs. Again, less than ideal.

Here's the url for info on the EZ/CD printer: http://www.ezcdprinter.com/

[img]http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3631910[/img]

I hope this works including the picture ?
My setup with the SD1 'out of the garage', ready to go back
My PC is behind the blue 'door' .... soo quiet....

Roel


Roel

[This message has been edited by Roel (edited 04-22-2003).]

[img]http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3632158[/img]

This pic shows a 'parked' SD1

Roel

Pro - I am very jealous of your setup! I am a bit of a neat-freak and my wife says if I had it my way our house would look like the one in American Psycho!

I am very interested in Home Recording and hope to eventually build something as nice as your setup.

Thanks for sharing. It gave me a lot of ideas.

Pro: That is a great setup! I actually bought a 2 tier Z stand recently. I have Motif 7 on lower tier and Korg PA80 on the upper one. Looking at the picture, it looks like you are using the upper tier with a laminated board as a monitor shelf. Is that right? or is it something from quik Lok? I have a 19" CRT monitor do you think it would hold the weight, if I did the same?

Roel: This has to be the neatest setup I have seen! just awesome. I wish my studio would look as clean as this. I will try to post some pictures of my studio soon. Anyone else with pictures of their setup?

Here are some pictures. I used to have a corner computer workstation, which was making the monitor speaker placement a pain. I recently bought this Quik Lok Z-Stand. I am still in the process of putting up acoustic foam on the wall behind the keyboards.

Here is a custom made vocals area:

The shelf that is supporting the monitor in my picture is just a common particle board shelf from Home Depot that came in black. It is sitting on the second tier of the stand. I don't think it would hold the weight of a large CRT or if it did it would "bow" in time. There may be better solutions that would do the same with your monitor, but flat panel LCD monitors are dropping in price too.



I am envious of the "disappearing keyboard" in Roel's setup - very handy. The suggestion of isolating the PC is good also but I will have a harder time implementing that.

If I could make a suggestion on Roel's setup: I would find a way to isolate the monitors from the shelf - thick foam works - the foam under my monitors actually came from something that was shipped to me and works great, and there are inexpensive foam risers like this that are sold especially for raising monitors off of shelves if you want to spend money.

Great show-and-tell responses !

Yes this is great !
I play at very low volumes (and have 2 fine ears) so isolating the monitors would not help much... I think. No resonances ;D

Harosha :
I like clean desks, no wires and as compact as possible.

Roel

Pro & Roel,
Very nice clean setups.

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

I'll add my echo.....,
Very Nice Set Ups...and Neat Too

[This message has been edited by Leon (edited 04-23-2003).]

The Pro: Thanks for your response. I will try to find a thicker and more heavier board that can support my monitor for now. I am just curious to try and see how it works out. I might just have to buy the flat panel monitor, it just looks too cool.

Here is my little place.

Blink_ers :

WOW ! This looks like a professional studio controlroom. I'm impressed.

Roel

blink_ers: The picture doesn't show up, could you post it again or post the direct link to it?

Thanks

Shaz

Real studio furniture makes a noticeble difference in appearance from what I can see in blink_ers pix. Looks like a lot of $$ went into it. However, it'd be nice to see a picture that was taken at eye-level (instead of waist-level?) and pointing downwards so we'd see more detail of your equipment choices.

Here's a close up of the mixer.

Remember, its whats in the fingers, not in the silicon that makes the sound.

Can you post an Equipment list?
Also what kind of keyboard is pictured.

Here's a close up of the rack.

Enjoy!

Some of the gear:

Avalon AD-2022 Dual Mono Mic-Pre
Avalon AD-2044 Dual Opto Compressor
Avalon AD-2055 Dual Mono EQ
Avalon U5 direct box
BBE 882 Sonic Maximizer
Monster Studio Pro 1000 & M-Series Cabling
Furman Power Conditioning
Neutrik Patch Bays

Console/Channel Strip List:

Mackie 24x8 Analog Console
Amek Channel in a Box super analog console with mic-pre, sweep eq, compressor/limiter, and class A circuitry

Converter List:

Apogee PSX-100SE

Digital Gear List:

Mac G4 Based Digital Performer 3.11 hard disk recording and editing system
DigiDesign ProTools TDM HD|3 rig (coming soon)
all the Waves, Antares, TC Powercore, Metric Halo, Kind of Loud, and IK Multi-Media plug-ins (incl. SampleTank XL)

Microphone List:

AKG D3800
AKG C480b ULS/61 Matched stereo pair
AKG 535EB
Shure SM57
AKG 414BTLii
Neumann U87ai
Seinnheiser 412mkii
Rode NTClassic Tube Microphone
AKG C12 Matched Stereo Pair

Monitor List:

Coleman Audio Passive Monitoring Switch Box (M3PH)
Mackie HR824 Mastering Monitors
Yamaha NS-10M Nearfield Monitors
Tannoy System 15
KRK V6

Amplifier List:

Marshall JCM 900 Lead Series 100 watt head
Marshall 1960a 4x12 cabinet
Crate Bass Amps with EQ
Line6 POD Pro

Stomp Box Effect List:

BOSS DD5 Digital Stereo Delay
BOSS Flanger
BOSS Super Chorus
Dunlop Original Crybaby Wah

Media Machines List:

Tascam CDRW2000 Master Glass CD Burner
Tascam 302 Dual Deck Cassette System
Tascam DA-45HR 24bit DAT

The keyboard is a Kurzweil PC88MX. It is used for controller purposes.

Thanx, very impressive! What type of applications do you use the studio for?

I teach and help my students with composing and arranging mostly.

[This message has been edited by blink_ers (edited 04-24-2003).]

Great - maybe you can teach me something... in your list you mention having a "Tascam CDRW2000 Master Glass CD Burner". WTF? I mean Tascam has a CDRW2000 on it's site but it says nothing about "glass mastering". Glass Mastering is the way that mass-CD houses make audio CD's that will play on any player, unlike CDR's which only play on CDR-compatible players. The laser pits are actually etched into the CD's glass substrate rather than a chemical substrate like a CDR. Is your "Tascam CDRW2000 Master Glass CD Burner" capable of making a true glass-mastered audio CD that'll play on any CD player?

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 04-24-2003).]

Yes, this is not consumer grade.

Roel, great to see your studio setup, especially since we've talked by telephone in the past.

Blinkers: WOW: Totally Awesome studio setup.

Admittedly, my setup is pretty stripped down compared to you 'real' studio guys, and basically includes just the Yamaha Tyros & PSR2000, Dell Dimension XP computer running Sonar, a couple of AKG C3000 mics, M Audio's: Omni Studio with Delta 66 sound card, and a pair of Genelec 1029 near field monitors + Genelec sub. Oops, I almost forgot to mention the Steinway B.
http://www.pbase.com/scottyee/synthzone

- Scott

Well that's nice - but it doesn't answer my question. I've checked every resource I could find (downloaded all specs and manuals) and I cannot find any indication that the Tascam CDRW2000 actually does glass mastering. Tascam itself does not claim that it does nor do some of the people I spoke with who sell this unit. I'm only pressing the question because I have great interest in finding ways to accomplish glass mastering relatively cheap. Can you tell me what indication you have that this unit will do glass mastering?

I doubt that CDRW2000 does glass mastering, however it does use consumer grade CDR/W (the one's you use in the computer) which are playable on most CD players now a days.

Most of the consumer grade CD recorders use audio only CDR/W, these are more expensive and are not playable on every CD player. I have Tascam CDRW700, it is great as a mixdown recorder.

How can you send pictures here? I could also send pictures of my studio here. It is a very budged studio compared with yours, but still I could send the pictures.

You can record to professional or consumer CD-R or CD-RW media.
http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/apr02/articles/tascamcdrw.asp

Micco,

I posted a message on the acapella forum, where you can attach an attachment, where it gets a URL. This URL can be used in your Synthzone message by placing it between [img]...... [/img] (see examples while editing the posted pictures.... just click 'edit' on my postings)

Hope you'll be able to show your studio soon.

Roel


[This message has been edited by Roel (edited 04-25-2003).]

What is an acapella forum?

Yes, but you'll end up with a CDR, not a glass-mastered audio CD no matter what media you use in it. You cannot do glass-mastering with this unit - I checked with several knowledgeable people just to make sure I wasn't missing something. The glass-mastering process is very involved and there are no stand-alone portable units that do it currently from Tascam or anyone else. Glass mastering requires multi-step generations which starts with a metal master and works down to the glass master that is used for the creation of the duplicates. Several hefty machines are involved. While the Tascam CDRW2000 is undoubtedly a nice professional-grade CD recorder that creates CDR's that play on most -but not all- CD players, glass-mastering is not one of it's abilities.

Boy-
I can't get enough of Pro's picture set up (i'll post mine some time just need to borrow somebody's digital cam first). Especially the silver flat monitor....

I can't see blinkers' though.

You are right about the mastering. I used the term in a loose generic context, not a strict literal sense.

By the way, I have seen the big machines you refer to at the AES shows.

I think it's Harosha's set up that uses a layer of foam on the wall behind the speakers. I'm thinking of using the same dampening material for my town house (share a commonwall with neighbor). Would it significantly reduce the boominess of my speakers? What should I use for my Harman Kardon subwoofer also?(from my computer's speakers) I'm just using a pair of Boston Acoustics shelf speakers connected to my Sony stereo system @ 20watts/chnl (really small/amateur stuff).

Hello KN_Fan. The boominess can be controlled using the bass traps (the acoustic foam in the corners in my setup) the foam behind the keyboards does a great job of controlling the reflections from mids and highs. The bass traps are made by Auralex, www.auralex.com. Keep in mind the acoustic foam will not isolate the sound. It will only get rid of early reflections of the sound. I noticed a huge difference in sound monitoring right after I installed this.

You may want to check out the Max-Wall system by Auralex, I just ordered a Max-wall 420 for the back wall and a Max-Wall 211 for vocals. I will post new pictures once I get those in.

Here is the first picture of my studio:

[img]http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3673851[/img]

Here is the second picture:

[img]http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3673859[/img]

Here is the third picture and this is the view form the window:

[img]http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3673865[/img]

So those three pictures above are from my studio. The studio is in our house and the view from the window is from your back yard. There you can see how Finland is in April.

My studio is very budget compared to some other studios here. But I still want to remind that I am just 20 year old boy and music is just my hobby. I don´t have the skills to be a professional musician. I do also video programs so the camroder and the video monitor is for that use. The computer is under the table and there are also two external hard disk, a super VHS recorder, a MiniDV recorder and some other stuff. The speakers on the wall are Genelec 1029A and my computer is PowerMac G4 Dual 1 GHz, 1 Gb/2x120 Gb hard disks.

Micco

Micco,
I like your studio a lot and I too love the idea of playing and being able to look out of the window; I have placed my SD1 under a window to be able to do the same: very inspiring.
A question for you: is your DV camcorder a Sony? (The picture is a bit dark).
Greetings from Rome (almost summer here in April...)

Yes it is Sony VX2000E and I forgot to mention the Digidesign Mbox. It is in the table. But I think that everyone can recognize it.

I use Final Cut Pro 3 for editing my videos and DVD Studio Pro 1.5 for making DVDs.

Micco

Hey Micco


I've seen your pics over at Harmony Central dude, cool setup.

If your using a Sony VX2000E, Final Cut Pro 3 and DVD Studio Pro 1.5 for making DVDs, I believe it's time to call yourself a professional.

Have you ever used a Canon GL2? If yes, how would you compare it to the Sony VX2000E in terms of picture quality and perfomance?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/264368.jpg

Peace.

Ringo

[This message has been edited by RINGO (edited 04-26-2003).]

Here in Finland the Canon GM2 is XM2 which is a PAL version (correct if I am wrong). The Sony VX2000 is more expensive and more professional videocamera compared to the XM2. The VX2000 has better picture and sound quality (with XM2 you can still take better still pictures) than the XM2. And in many other ways it is more professional than the XM2. The Canon XL1s is in the same level with VX2000. The cost about the same and they are in the same level. Still some people say that the VX2000 is a bit better. One good thing on the XL1s is that you can change lenses on it and you can mount it in your shoulder. But in the other hand it is very big and it doesn´t have LCD, which is very handy when you use a tripod.

I would compare the XM2 to the Sony TRV950E. The cost about the same, but the Canon is much better. The TRV950 has much more functions (like flash, web cam, bluetooth, touch screen) compared to the XM2, but all these functions are useless for a serious videographer. The Canon XM2 has much better picture quality than the TRV950. It is also a bit bigger so it has a more professional feeling and it is also more user friendly.

So in the pro level I would rather buy the Sony, but the semi-pro level the Canon is better.

Micco

Micco,
how would you rate the Sony PD 150 compared to yours and other DV camcorders in the same price range? Seems to offer the best value for the money (a lot of money though...)

The Sony PD-150 is a pro version of the VX2000. In many ways it is the same camera, but it has some differences. Here is the list of the differences:
http://www.dvinfo.net/sony/skinny.php

These two cameras have a quite big price difference. I was asking advices of some pro people before I bought the camera about which camera should I buy and they all said, buy the VX2000 and spend the money you saved to some other AV stuff and you will get much better results that way. For example the DVCAM format is mostly politics (I hope you understand what I mean). With MiniDV you get the same quality if you use good quality casettes. With these formats Sony only wants to separate their consumer and pro stuff. It is completly different thing compared to JVC for example. JVCs consumer cameras are MiniDV and their expensive pro cameras have the same format.

Thanks Harosha,

Would it affect its effectiveness if I painted it? I want to match the color to my wall.

Thanks, Micco. I understand perfectly what you mean.

KN_Fan: No, unfortunately you cannot paint these. The material has to stay porous for it to absorb all the sound.

Check out www.auralex.com they have different colors available. You may be able to find something that matches with your wall color. They also have some designer stuff that is also good, but expensive. Another good site is www.markertek.com they have a variety of stuff that is really good and may be cheaper than auralex.

KN-Fan,
If your thinking of blocking sound to your nieghbour's common wall: Basic physics, sound travels best through solid material ( I found this out the hard way). My recommendation would be wall, insulation, common wall. The studs should not touch the common wall.
Sound >>>> |wall| |stud| insulation |common wall|
Starkeeper

Thanks Star/Harosha,

I checked out the auralex website. Good stuff. Not sure if I'm going to spend that much money on sound dampening stuff (I feel it's going to be up there in the hundreds of dollars). I know this for sure that I don't play music as loud as my neighbor does. I can't imagine my 20watts sony/5 inch full range boston acoustic would rumble all the walls. I'm a really nice neighbor...I don't play that loud anyway. I just thought if spending less than 50 bucks (I know..i know..i'm a cheapskate!) can reduce the "possibility" of my sounds travelling through the wall, I'd do it. Heck, even I can hear her sometimes playing her collection of country music when she cleans the house or whatever (just the bass though).

Thanks Micco for the information on the camcorders.


Peace.

Ringo

Hey Guys,

I highly recommend Auralex Designer Series DTS 114's and DTS 244's studio foam for your studio. It will make your studio look and sound nice.

I built / designed a small 8' x 10' home studio room with floating floors, walls, drop ceiling and vocal booth using :

2"x4"x8' Studs.
Fiberglass Insulation.
MDF.
Birch plywood.
Drywall.
Auralex U-boat Floor Floaters.
Auralex SheetBlok Sound Barrier.
Auralex Designer Series DTS 114's and DTS 244's studio foam in charcoal.
Auralex Pyramids in blue.


Peace.

Ringo

KN_Fan: Markertek.com sells acoustic blankets ($17.00) each, they do a pretty good job of dampening the sound. They don't look as good though but for about $50 you can reduce some of the reflections.

Again, this won't do anything to sound proof your room.

Hi Harosha,

I've seen that blanket...I think I'll pass. Since my keyboard is in my living room (promise I'll post the picture)- I'd rather have a sectional carpet and/or something from auralex just to cover the area where I put my speakers (just like you did with yours).

No- I'm not looking for soundproofing my room at all. Just reducing the noise from my end of the wall to my neighbors (living room to living room and all our bedrooms are upstairs so it should be not too bad)

Thanks again for your input! that auralex website is helpful!

You re welcome!!!!

Here's a 'link' to a shot of Kn_Fan's (Jonas) studio that he asked me to post for him here. - Scott
http://www.pbase.com/image/16858380

Keyboard: Korg Triton
Monitors: Boston Acoustics


[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 05-19-2003).]

Thanks Scottie!

What could you have possibly edited from your message?

The Boston Acoustic speakers were not professional speakers- they're my old shelf book speakers I got from my friend like almost 8 years ago. Still sounds okay..it's not like I'm going to do some serious mixing anyway. I just hooked it up to my Sony stereo system. I just connect the Triton's line outs to the Aux in on my Sony. Then, from the Sony's CD player, I hook that up to my Triton..so I can listen to both through my headphones (if I feel like playing really loud at night).

I was planning on putting that auralex dampening material just on the wall behind the desk. Probably won't do me any good.

Thanks again Scott!!