Style to MIDI and MIDI to style conversion in PA80?

Hello all,

Is there a way to convert all variations in a PA80 style to one MIDI file. I downloaded the style to midi program from korgpa80.com web site, but it only converts one variation at a time. I was looking for a way to convert all variations into one midi file, make changes to it in Sonar and then convert it back to style file.

Any idea?

Thanks

Hi, Karosha,

The program that exists is called KAT200 (the PA-80 version of KIT2000).
http://www.posta.cg.yu/istyle/Kit2000.htm

Although it has its limitations, it is worth the money for the education alone..... you can get a good idea of the issues involved in creating styles from his web site. I recommend the program - it also allows yoo rearrange styles and performances (and that aspect does work)

The features you want are called "Collected Fiiles"; KAT2000 converts the Style into one long type 1 MIDI file, with the style inforamtion in Markers and snd the Event List.

However it is not quite ready for prime time yet for tha application. There are two main issues (I'm working with Milan on them, because I want the same thing as you).

1. The style info is included with the MIDI
events in the first measure of the variation. This means you can't change instruments during looping or cut and paste tracks from variation to variatioin within a program like SONAR, since the info gets pasted with it, and it can't be reconverted by KAT back into a style again.

2. It doesn't preserve instuments in the conversion if theya re not in bank 0, and will assign Ac.Piano if there are no botes, even if the original style specified an instrument.

3. It doesn't trim notes at the measure boundaries, so you have to be vry careful when addding notes. If the extend over measure boundaries, KAT can't transform it.

====================================
I really hope Milan can fix these problems, but the program is worth it just to see how the events and instruments are laid out in the Marker and Event list. I have some templates available for SONAR on the Irish Acts PA80 forum (www.irishacts.com; download section), showing the collected files, a SONAR inst. definition list for the PA80, and the beginning of a StudioWare interface.

Hope this helps,

"Flamenco Chuck" Keyser www.flamencochuck.com

Harosha,
Were I you I would d/l the demo version of this program first and try it. I did on a few occasions and could not get it to work to my satisfaction.
Terry

Harosha,
You should understand that many of the technically oriented current users of the PA80 do use KAT2000.

But style programming itself is difficult and time consuming, and has unique requirement (instrument voicing, etc.)

(Terry and I had an extensive interchange on the Irish Acts board about KAT; you might want to check the archives to see our different perspectives).

I have found Milan (who produces KAT2000) to be quite conscientious about supporting KAT. One of the issues is that apparently the DLL that Korg uses apparently has bugs, or is incomplete, making it difficult for Milan.

Again, discussion of these issues is ongoing at IrishActs, and if we can ever get the issues resolved, SONAR will become a very powerful tool for style creation.

But until the outstanding issues are fixed; again,

1. Transferring Instruments correctly.
2. Separating the Midi from the audio.

I can't recommend it for editing. But it is very good for understanding the issues involved, arranging style elements (which can be cut and pasted in the most recent version) and programs, and getting a conceptual handle on how the styles and programs are configured from a software perspective.

But join us at IrishActs to be involved in this project; it is important to me as well, since I want to create styles from scratch efficiently as well.

Best Regards,

Chuck

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www.flamencochuck.com

Harisha,

You should also know that Terry (trtjazz) no longer owns a PA80 and is certainly not technically oriented as far as programming is concerned (again, check the archives at IrishActs).

Programming styles for the PA80 is not for the faint-hearted or technically challenged; one of its joys is that it is extremely flexible with deep potential, but that also makes it complex.

But Korg did include StyleTools, making it possible - KAT2000 is toward making it even efficient; provided you want to do it at all.......:-)

Programming style elements is an entirely different level from merely morphing them...

So Terry is right in his observation that style programming is not for everyone... well, at least not him, anyway)

Chuck

Harosha,

I must apologize about misspelling your name. I AM technically challenged about typing....:-)

Chuck

Chuck,
I do not care to repeat our arguments over at IA....here. I have not mentioned you nor intend to in any of my posts. I would appreciate that you show me the same courtesy and leave your references to me out of your posts entirely.

Harosha, did not ask for whether or not I still have a PA, or if I was a technical genius or not. My only advice was to d/l the trial version because it did not work to MY satisfaction. I neither bashed the PA nor Kat. I gave sound advice for any software that has a trial version available.

I have come here to find peace in posting and I would very much appreciate you not doing anything to ruin that.

In short, please leave me alone here, I have made no reference to you at all, please return the courtesy.
thank you ,
Terry



[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 11-03-2002).]

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 11-03-2002).]

Hey, Terry, you talk about the PA80, and I'll be right there.....

Don't talk about the PA80 and I won't mention you......

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www.flamencochuck.com

So where is it exactly in this thread that I mentioned the PA? Point it out to me please because I do not see it here. Other than to say ....I have not mentioned it.

This was my post:
Harosha,
Were I you I would d/l the demo version of this program first and try it. I did on a few occasions and could not get it to work to my satisfaction.
Terry

Harosha,
What I will tell you is that I have not seen even 1 complete style, intros, 4 variations and endings completed by a private individual from scratch for the PA 80, either with the board or any software program available in 2 years.




[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 11-03-2002).]

Lessee, Harosha mentioned the PA80,

Well, I'm on not going to be persnickety about this. If it even SEEMS like you're mentioning the PA80, or if the discussion is in the context of the PA80, I'll be there.

Because I really like my PA80. Like, a lot, and I want to see it grow into the instrument it has the potential to be.

(You said in another thread you regretted seeling your PSR2000. You're going to regret selling your PA880 even more.... Trust me....)

Chuck

harosha

It does not do this as it makes no sence too with the logic of the program. The assumtion seems to be that you have a MID file for each part and thus edit accordingly. If you save them in a big string and then try to load, it would be then a single variation. The Pa clearly wants a single file for each element of the style.

As for Kat Chuck explained the situation with that application quite well.

I personally find working on single style elements in a single MID file at a time, more reliable give the currently avaible tools.

Best thing is really just good old Copy and Paste.

Terry , while you are intitled to your point of veiw, IMHO you have also clearly show a huge lack of knowledge or creative flair for dealing with the issues of style creation. Sorry if I can not take your comments about this topic even with a grain of salt.

Alright guys, off with the gloves and back into your corners.....

For what it's worth, I think the PA80 is a fabulous sounding arranger. Probably the best I have ever heard. I played it at a GC and lost track of time...
ZUKI

Bitdump is correct that the Korg Style Tool is the most effective way of programming styles from a MIDI perspective. YOu really have to keep track of what you are doing, and it is a lot more painful than it should be, which is why I'm hoping for the KAT upgrade that will change everything.

At least now we know what the main problems are, and can keep bugging Milan....:-)

I've also tried opening multiple PA80 ST files in SONAR, which also works, but you have to be real careful.....

Thanks all for your responses. I used Korg's style program and it seems to work well. I created a style file based on a song that I created a few years back with little problems. I only created two variations for now, but yes the good old cut and paste trick works.

I still have to do some tweaking within the PA80, but over all I was able to create a style from MIDI and load it into the PA.

I will also download the KAT2000 trial versin and play around with it.

Harosha-

Be aware that the demo version (unless Milan has upgraded it) is missing many of the features available in the professional version.

But be sure and read the documentation available on his Website; it is considerably clearer than the PA80 manual...and even then,...:-)

Has anybody noticed duplicate MIDI events when using the Korg style making tool? The notes at the first beat of the first measure reappear toward the end of the last measure. It happens either when importing MIDI files in to the program or when saving as style files; I can't remember exactly when. Given the use of the tool, it doesn't bother me a lot. I delete the events after loading the style file in to the keyboard. I am just wondering if anybody else has also seen this.

Shiral

Andrea Bernadelli at Korg Italy should know about this. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm still trying to get KAT2000 working....:-)

Yup that happens, but I never bothered to figure out why exactly. I just delete the event as you mentioned.

If I ever figure it out I'll be sure to post it somewhere here and at IA.

Probally related to the location or duration of MIDI data in the MID file and where it dumps it in the converted style. Best guess.