Shame!!

Roland G-70 is a shame of modern technique! Did anyone listen this keyboard on PA system before they put it on the market. I am very disappointed. Disaster. I have G-1000 and it is a god for G-70. I do not care for good look. I do not need cristmas tree on my tour. Only important is a sound. I do not know who is more stupid, we or keyboard sounds producers. With nowdays technologies. Heh. I am very angry and I hope Roland finally make better arranger than G-1000 is. But who knows?!

Boy there sure have been some mixed emotions about this keyboard. Here's what I don't understand and why I think Roland (in my opinion) is greedy and don't really give a damn about the customers.

It is my understanding that the VA series is no longer produced and the G-70 has replaced the (ENTIRE) VA series. The VA series had (3) models. There was the VA-3/5/7. All aimed at diffferent price margins. Then Roland DROPS the ENTIRE series and replaces it with only ONE keyboard that costs a sh$#&%$ load of money, and then to really stick the stick up the consumers A!@# even further they only allow this model to be in a select number of stores, not available for online purchase, and can only be demoed and sold in a retail store.

I think Roland just basically gave a huge "go screw yourselves" to their arranger customers by doing this.

Again my opinion.

Squeak

Thanks buddy. Only solution is make a real band. Who cares for arrangers?

It's really ruff today with some of the prices on these keyboards and their (lack) of features in several areas. Personally I just cannot see why they charge so much money for some of these keyboards today. Especially considering where we are with technology today and how cheap a lot of it is. The profit margin for keyboard makers is HUGE! Hell you can get a computer for less than $500 now and add a midi controller with some software and still get a better system then what a keyboard has to offer (again my opinion there).

I know people say that you're getting all this technology and it's portable. However the techonology isn't that new in these boards. Hell my toothbrush is portable, and it cost me $3.00 and not $3,000.

Roland in my opinion seems to not really care about the arranger department. I say this because of the G-70 replacing the entire VA line and bringing with it a HUGE price tag. I also agree and say "shame" on them for prices on keyboards such as the EXR-7. The EXR-7 has jack for sequencer editing, no style editing or recording, and no voice editing. Sure it has some good sounds, a D-Beam, and 76 keys, but sell it for $1,000. They've got to be crazy! For that price you could get a PA-50 or PSR-1500 that has way more features and bang for the buck. Maybe not 76 keys, but not everyone wants 76 keys either.

I used to be a big supporter of Roland, but lately been angry at them for their sh#@!!ing on the arranger players.


Squeak

Thanks squeak. Your opinion is right. Roland producers do not care for us. But when customers turn back them, then will be playing some said song.

I don't understand why people are so upset about the G-70. I bought one at a great price. about the same as a Tyros.
in addition I got 76 REAL keys instead of 61 toy keys.
I got a removable storage whic makes file maintance a breeze.
I got a real mic input with a real harmonizer.
I also got a master eq and compressor system.
I also got an unlimited user program storage with easy access and file storage.
The only thing I'm missing is the fancy drink holder at the end of the keyboard

But Frankieve you do not got a sound. Did you?!

Frank has or had all the top boards...he knows if the G70 sounds good!!

Ok. More instruments sounds good but where is important things, drums and basses.

We all know that sounds on a keyboard are subjective. Everyone has different taste. Like I've said in the past I've talked to people that prefer the sounds of a Casio to Yamaha/Roland/Korg. We each have our own opinions there. We pick our boards based on what type of music we play. Some are good at certain styles as others are not.

Squeak

Vano Hi!
I have not played the G-70 but from your post I think you may have different requirements in a keyboard than many of us in this forum. Certainly, to me at any rate,
"drums and basses" are not the most important features, rather the quality of the overall instrumental and solo voices together with the ease of operation and quality of construction. From what I have read of others who HAVE used the G-70 it seems that it scores quite well on most aspects.

Maybe some other brand will be a better buy for you.

Trevor

Vano.....didnt you test drive the unit a few times before you bought it?

I still say the VA is hard to beat......
zuki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by trevorjohn:
Vano Hi!
I have not played the G-70 but from your post I think you may have different requirements in a keyboard than many of us in this forum. Certainly, to me at any rate,
"drums and basses" are not the most important features, rather the quality of the overall instrumental and solo voices together with the ease of operation and quality of construction. From what I have read of others who HAVE used the G-70 it seems that it scores quite well on most aspects.

Maybe some other brand will be a better buy for you.

Trevor [/QUOTE

Nowdays everyone wants to be smart and intellegent but everyone of us knows what is good and what is bad. Everyone wants to have natural sound. If sound is not natural then make it deep and wide. Only G-1000 on PA system sounds sirious, other arrangers sounds like a mexicans lemonade. :-) Sorry for my english.

When you playing rock songs with high tempo and they sounds good then you know that the arranger is good. In the other hand are bad. Ballads sounds good on every keyboards. Even on Casio.

I didnt buy G-70 and i will not buy it. I am angry becouse Roland "cant" make a keyboard with natural, deep and wide sound. No, no, no. They playing very nasty game with us. Only for bussines. They dont care for us. Only what I need from Rolands firm is new G-1000 with hard disk not with zip and they can put it in colour displey and all other sheets becouse my G-1000 is not in good condition. Sorry for my english again.

Thanks Fran,

I think it's a Roland, it does what Rolands usaually do. Great midi file handling, great overall balanced sound, especially mixed together.

I had allot of boards, and I can find fault in all, and praise in all.

The Tyros is great, but if we think as we think of the Roland engineers, Yamaha didn't think anybody was actually going to sing when they used the Tyros.

Or have the ability to choose more than 8 regs at a time.

I can do this with all the boards including the G70.

But the G70 has newer ways of handling stuff.

You know what, party at my house. Last one standing gets to declare the best keyboard

Hi Vano...
Go for any of KORG PA series and You will be suprised...

Simply,more U play it more U love it

I wouldn't change my KORG for any of others.

I had it, Korg Pa1x pro.Mmmm..., nice keyboard for ballades but for songs with high tempo there is no enough dynamics and power. Problem in Pa1x is that it sounds to much soft and there is no power.

Hey, Vano!

You want to have natural sounds? Go and buy a sampler! You want to have natural sounds in addition to really good digital filters? Go and buy a Kurzweil!

I'm playing rock and metal and IMHO a Kurzweil and a Yamaha V-50/DX7 are really top of the lists. Furthermore you can add nearly every other synth to grow in sound abilities. Look out for the handling you're familiar with and you can't go wrong!

Nothing more than my humble thoughts...

------------------
Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

Thanks Sheriff, but I havent real drummer. My drummer is insade G-1000(little japanese boy). I need arranger. These your keyboards havent it. Thanks for your opinion again.

Vano, if you say that there has been no improvement in drum sounds from VA to G-70, I can agree with you, but if you say that G-1000 drum sounds are much better that G-70 I think that you are missing the big improvements in drum kit sound reality that V-xxxx drum sets have if compared with G-1000, and that is recognized by a lot of VA users.
Anyway, if you are still satisfied of your G-1000, hold on with it and be happy.

Ok, thanks. I'll buy G-70 this week and then I'll try to get satisfaction with tweak and tweak. I said that my G-1000 is in bad condition.

Vano, how bad is your G1000?
I bought mine in May 98, use it everyday in the studio and gig with it too..It is still near perfect condition...I take care of my gear, don't abuse the gear and get long service in return...
I have seen many beat keyboards, including a couple of G1000's, and for the life of me,I don't understand why people are so careless with this equipment...I have seen "Pros" carry unprotected keyboards under their arms with doors smacking the unit before they get thru the doorway...
I have seen so much abuse of equipment, I always feel they [the owners] will get what they deserve..
Hopefully you are not in this categorie..

Hey vano ..... have you been drinking ? I only ask because your postings are very strange. You started this thread by saying the G70 is a disaster but now you talk about buying one. Why would you buy a product you consider to be a "disaster" or is your first posting just way off the mark ?

I was just wondering.

That's right TAJNA92!! I also tested Roland (VA) and Yamaha synths (Tyros) before I bought Korg....but..It can not be compared with Korg Pa1x. And as You said..more You play more I like It. ;-)) And If we miss the sound (which is outstanding): for money You get really a LOT with Korg. And not a plastic 'christmas tree with big lights' like Tyros look like.

And I think Korg is not just for ballads playing. Everything is in Your fingers...maybe the Korg's keyboard is a little 'heavy' for fast playing but It can also be done great. When I can not play fast I blame myself: Igor, You did not practice enough. ;-))

That's just my opinion. I really don't wan't to dissapoint some other members of the forum.



------------------
Nice day!
Igor
Europe-Slovenija

What do you mean with an arranger? The Yamaha V-50 is a workstation with an 8 channel sequencer (I've never used it). The Kurz has a 16 channel sequencer inside with up to 960 kB song memory.

I'm also playing without a band but my Cubase is a fulltime orchestra with drummer, bassman, choir, strings, pianos, trumpets, flutes, organs and all kind of synth tunes you can imagine. All you'll need is a couple of synths which are worth enough to play your songs. I don't know any better choice than Kurzweil for doing this job because of its absolutely natural sounds and its totally amazing programmable digital filters.

I don't really know what you're looking for but if you think that Kurz or Yamaha don't have arranger abilities then you're definitively wrong. Oh, and by the way, a computer based sequencer programm is a lot better than an arranger board because you're more free in handling with a mouse instead of hundreds of knobs and you're able to see what you're doing on a bright screen instead of a dark LCD screen.

The Korg synths that I remember (for example: Korg Wavestation 01) are a little bit older than the synths you've mentioned above. Nevertheless, they had have some really good smooth sounds (for example: a flying helicopter).

But if you want to play rock music without having a real drummer then you would probably find it useful to have an artificial drummer with optimal drum sounds. And so you'll find no better drumsets than those inside a Kurzweil...

Okay, you'll find your way. Good luck for your choice!

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 06-14-2005).]

A workstation or a sequencer is NOT the same as an arranger.
Starkeeper

Maybe we should start calling vano - vino..

Just kidding vino, err.. vano.

But you went from one end of the richter scale to the other. It doesn't make sense. Disaster to Delight all in a very short period of time?? Can you explain your rationale after making such bizzare contradictions? Other than the bottle of Port you may have downed shortly before changing your disaster rating on the G70 to one of "I will buy one this week"?

Humm??? What gives?

Best regards,
Mike

PS: If you are under age please disregard my references to your drinking alcoholic beverages because you shouldn't be drinking them in the first place.



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 06-17-2005).]

I think you'll find that Vano was being sarcastic. He clearly does not want to buy a keeyboard that needs to be tweaked and tweaked to sound reasonable......who in their right mind would ?

Hi All,
if someday the difference of opinion over the G-70 stops I will miss something, really!
Regards,
Hanspeter

another briliant example of sarcasm.I think we have all got the hang of it now

Okay, please, explain me then what an arranger kb is!
I've bought the V-50 from a musician who was gigging as a one man band. Isn't it exactly that what you "arrangers" are doing?

Now I'm really a little bit confused...

On the other side, isn't it the wish of all musicians to have optimal sounds in all points? So, it seems to me that it were much better to have about 2-5 keyboards and synths because of their different sound abilities. The one kb has good piano sounds, another one has some good strings and brass, the next one has some fine oriental sounds, and so on...

I'm really wondering and curioused to hear more about this thematic...

I guess the big question out there and the question I have is that after the latest OS update, does one still need the sounds to be tweaked and tweaked in order for the G-70 to sound reasonable?

Are the sounds really that bad for a flagship arranger?


Or are sounds really that subjective?

I guess we wouldn't know unless we try the G-70 for our selves.

I would think by today no keyboard should have really really bad sounds. I would think that the technology has reached the stage that it is up to the user's subjectivity and individual liking for the different brands of keyboard manufacturers sounds.

But may be the G-70 has proven those thoughts wrong
or may be not.

Time will tell.

A Yamaha V-50 is a synthesizer (according to my google search) NOT an arranger.

An arranger plays styles, without being sequenced first. If I select a "style", set the tempo, and then start playing, the accompaniment starts to play.
Although you can play a MIDI file or a sequencer live, you can't change chords, on the fly, or repeat a measure, on the fly with a MIDI file or sequencer.
Can you replay a measure or two or a whole verse, without pre-planning in advance?
You can with an arranger.
If you were accompanying a singer and the singer played the the chorus twice instead of once (without letting you know in advance). If the singer played the last verse of the song 3 times. If after a short break the singer started singing the 2nd verse again, and this caught you unaware, would you be able to "catch up". If a singer started singing a new unscheduled song, you would have to find it and "catch up" with the singer. All these these scenarios are possible with an arranger and I have seen singers do all these scenarios.
Starkeeper


[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 06-16-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 06-16-2005).]

Starkeeper is right. That Yamaha mentioned isn't an arranger. Arrangers have preset styles that allow chord changes to be triggered depending on what (accomp mode) the board is presently set for meaning : full, single, ect.) Just because you can (arrange) a composition on the board doesn't make it an arranger keyboard. It puts it in the synth/workstation category.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-16-2005).]

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-16-2005).]

Aha, that's the trick with an arranger kb. Now I understand the (little) difference. So, an arranger is a kind of optimized sequencer with the ability to load complete song styles (which means rhythm, tempo and sound settings?) AND the ability to create breaks on the fly which would leave the programmed line of a normal sequencer.

Oh, well, then you're a completely other form of arrangers than I am. I'm arranging compositions on a sequencer for using in studio surrounding only.

Thank you for enlightenment, Starkeeper!

Arrangers are really intelligent MIDI sequencers that can follow your keyboard input and play back accompaniment accordingly. This give you the advantages of a sequencer except it follows you so you have realtime control of the accompaniment. MIDI sequencers would provide similar backing but you would always have to play to them rather than them following you. With arrangers you can adlib, repeat choruses and extend solos which wouldn't be possible with a fixed length MIDI sequence. Arrangers really are state of the art MIDI sequencing using all that is good but not at all confined by the restrictions of a MIDI sequence.

I think Rolands last good keyboard was the G1000. The VA series had crap sounds and the 116 drum kits (despite the variety) were not impressive.

Now this G70 sounds like the VA series to me. When I tried out the G70 and came away in disgust I was wondering whether there were other people who like me felt that this is one of the worst sounding keyboards in arranger keyboard history (price relative) and I'm glad i'm not the only one.

Did you ever see so many people saying such harsh words about the sounds of the G70 ? It really does suck in the sounds department.

The Tyros may look like a christmas tree with its colorful lights but its sounds and styles I think are lightyears ahead of the G70.

Who knows maybe the G70 is Rolands last top arranger.... Roland G70 just simply put...................sucks!!!!!!! I would not buy it even if it sold for $1500

ps: the one I tested at my local store is still there....nobody wants to purchase it so the sales guy phones me often to convince me to buy it (because I bought a VA5 from them).... lol

Don't be silly "Rolandfan", of course the VA series sounded better than the G1000 and of course it didn't have crap sounds. It is clear that we all have different tasts, especially when it comes to something so subjective as what sounds most pleasing to ones ears. So please, at least try to give a more balanced judgement. The world is not black and white ;-)

Someone who drives a BMW will probably never be interested in a Mercedes-Benz and the other way around. But that doesn't mean that both cars are among the best that the industry produces...

I could easily write a simular report on the Korg PA1X-Pro, because it just isn't my cup of tea. But I won't, cause I know there is nothing wrong with it and it just has an approach to the concept of an arranger which doesn't quite fulfil my needs.

I really hope you are happy with the Tyros, I know I am with my G-70. When the Tyros2 hits the market and I like it more than the G-70, I could switch to that just as easily (if my budget alows me to). So it is not the Roland brand that made me choose the G-70, I just happen to think it is a very nice instrument and worth every penny. I trust you can respect that.


------------------
Tom NL

Hi Tom . i respect the fact that you purchased the G70. And i know that you would not have spent that kind of money if the instrument was rubbish. But please believe me and the others here that have actually demoed the unit . The sound problem with some of the Roland G70 units has nothing to do with taste. They really do sound crap.Thats why there have had to be new operating systems released to take away some of the reverb, effect smothered sound and still problems persist. I dont have any axe to grind with roland. I really wanted to like the instrument. The demo on the net sounded fantanstic and i was literally drooling when i saw a G70 in my local music store. I cant tell you how disappointed i was with the keyboard sound. It got to the point that i had to leave the unit because i felt embarrassed about the sound i was making... I know i am not oscar peterson but please....! Good luck with your G70 and i hope it gives you much joy.

Yes Rolandfun, thats right!! OOOO my god, what's the price of G-70 today.LOL.. It's a 2299 EUR.- Last two weeks was a 2799.- Haha. Amazing. Next week will be 1699.- I'm just kiding about buying. I'll never buy it even if it cost 1 EUR.- Oh my english is good, but I think you'll understand me. And finally about my drinking. I thing my alcohol drinking isn't lees or high in compere with your drinking. Soooo..., psssssst.

And one more thing! I don't care for VA or E or XXX-serie Roland keyboards. We talk about G-serie and G-70 is a G-serie it isn't VA or some other serie. Then we'll talk and compere it with G-serie keyboards or other Korg, Yamaha..etc.. keyboards.

And one more important thing! Roland's engineers and sound producers knows what people who plays on old G-series expect. We were expected EQUAL or SAME SOUNDS or so, HARD DISC, NEW STYLES and NEW MODERN LOOK. But most important is a sound. People who plays G-serie expect G-sounds!!!! Not VA or zlmrv sounds becouse G-70 is a G-serie. Why not VA-70 or E-70 or ERX-70???? Why G-70????!! LOOOOOOL! They made us Stupid! Shame! Roland's SHAME!!

To: VANO
As for your post, speak for your self VANO if you are stupid its ok to say so. But don't use the word us because that makes it look like we all are.
And I can tell you there is nothing short about the Roland G 70.
I have owned the G1000 for five years sold it got a Ketron X4 than sold it and baught another new G1000 two more years.
And for three weeks now I have had the G 70 and it is a fine keyboard.
The best arranger I have ever owned.
ITS GREAT.
Here is one of your post VANO you sound like a bad windy day in March the wind just keeps blowing.


And one more important thing! Roland's engineers and sound producers knows what people who plays on old G-series expect. We were expected EQUAL or SAME SOUNDS or so, HARD DISC, NEW STYLES and NEW MODERN LOOK. But most important is a sound. People who plays G-serie expect G-sounds!!!! Not VA or zlmrv sounds becouse G-70 is a G-serie. Why not VA-70 or E-70 or ERX-70???? Why G-70????!! LOOOOOOL! They made us Stupid! Shame! Roland's SHAME!!

I also have the Fantom X 8

[This message has been edited by G Angel (edited 06-18-2005).]

Sorry G Angel. Realy sorry. Sorry to all for this stupid word. I'll solve this problem. They made ME stupid! Ok.

Put the sounds from V or VA-series to G-70 without any G-series old or new improved sounds or any other G-sounds caracteristics?! Waaaauuuuu! Thanks. I finished my opinion for G-70. Bye..

Forgive me for the dumb question but... where can you find a G 70 at 2299 Euros??

Well Andrea, certainly not in Norway
GJ

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tom NL:

Don't be silly "Rolandfan", of course the VA series sounded better than the G1000 and of course it didn't have crap sounds.

I agree 100% - the VA rocks! I will prove it when I post some of my music soon.

zuki

I may be stating the obvious here but.... There are several things that will dramaticly affect the sound of the G70:

* Press the effects button and check what the settings are for EQ and Compression. This does change the way this KB sounds.

* Make sure (in arranger setting) the KBD Part is Un-Checked. When going from style to style many of the One Touch settings are set up for TWO Sounds, therefore, if this is checked you will here only HALF of the total sound. In other words one sound is panned left and the other right. You can, of course, change that and get the full (Stereo) sound.

This is the only thing that, to me, explains the Extreme oppinions on this KB.

[This message has been edited by JCkeeys (edited 06-19-2005).]