Alesis Fusion Workstation : Your Thoughts

As you know I'm looking for a synth and I've just come across the specs for the yet to be released Alesis Fusion synth and I must say some things sound very intrigueing , I especially like the harddrive . OK granted I'm not sure if this kind of synth would be appropriate for me at this point in time . See below for the details . As for price Musicians Buy is accepting preorders (the synth will be available later this month) for $1700 US which seems very reasonable IMO.

What makes a Keyboard a workstation?

A workstation is simply a keyboard with a built-in sequencer and digital sampler. What’s so great about that, you ask? Well… workstations are cool because having a keyboard, sequencer, and sampler in one package is convenient, portable, and saves a lot of money over buying everything separately.

Unfortunately, integrating all these features makes most workstations daunting and difficult to use. Users have to battle confusing menus and poorly written manuals to get their ideas recorded. Worse yet, owners often have to compromise their artistic vision because it’s too much of a hassle to hammer out an idea exactly how they want it to sound—users end up settling for “good enough.”

We’ve seen other companies try to make the “ultimate workstation” by packing in lots of features without any attempt to make the experience of creating music simple, inspiring, and fun.

The Alesis Approach

At Alesis, our focus was not to simply pack in as many features as possible without regard to the user experience. We re-examined the idea of the workstation and set out to build an instrument that is musically inspiring, easy to use, and has everything to record even your wildest musical ideas without compromise. After over two years of research and development, our work resulted in the Fusion workstation.

Examining the Creation Process

How does a keyboard player find inspiration after sitting down at a workstation? Keyboardists often start by playing different sounds—a Grand Piano, synth lead, or maybe some drums. They search till they find something that inspires them and use that as a foundation to build their ideas.

What separates the Fusion from the competition is our wide palette of synthesized sounds. The best analogy for this can be found in painting. What if Rembrandt only had a few shades of gray at his disposal? There would be no depth or realism to his paintings. The paintings might still be pleasing to the eye, but you would feel like you were left lacking in the experience. This same principle applies for sonic choices as well.

The Fusion has a major advantage over its competitors because it gives you several sonic colors to paint with. With four totally different synthesis types built into one workstation, owning a Fusion is like having four different synthesizers at your disposal. More synths mean more sonic colors. More sonic colors mean more inspiration and better music.

Sample Playback

Say you want some good old sample playback synthesis… It’s been around a long time and it’s still the best way to create a realistic grand piano, drum kit, and many other instruments. No problem—the Fusion has it. We started from scratch and built a world class library of sounds just for the Fusion.

All Fusion sounds were custom made by some of the most talented sound designers in the industry. With thousands of incredible sample-based instruments at your disposal, you’ll never have a shortage of sonic inspiration on the Fusion.

Many people think the grand piano is the most important sound on a keyboard and we couldn’t agree more. We searched for the absolute best piano we could find and came across the “Holy Grail Piano” by Q Up Arts. The Holy Grail Piano is a world-class grand piano that was painstakingly sampled from top to bottom and turned into a breathtaking instrument. You can find this incredible piano on every Fusion workstation along with thousands of other top-quality sounds just like it.

Sampling

The sampler has become an incredibly popular instrument since its inception in the 80s. Whether you make hip hop, electronic, or even rock music, you can always use a sampler to make your song better. Whether you just want to play back a soundbite or go all-out and create your own custom instrument, the Fusion has you covered. Our synth’s comprehensive sampling capabilities let you record, edit, and manipulate sounds just like on a hardware sampler (or computer) and you can even store your samples on the Fusion’s massive 40-gigabyte hard disk—something that no other workstation offers. The graphical editing makes doing all this a snap.

Virtual Analog

If you’ve been playing keyboards for a while, you’ve probably heard of our award winning analog and virtual-analog synthesizers. The A6 Andromeda is the king of analog for countless top producers and musicians around the world, and our Ion and Micron virtual-analog synths beat the pants off competing keyboards costing five times as much! When it comes to analog, nobody can touch us in terms of sound quality or bang-for-the-buck.

The Fusion is our latest virtual-analog creation and it will knock your socks off.

Forget the cheesy “sampled analog” found on many of our competitors’ products—the Fusion will give you the real stuff: earth-shaking basses, gnarly leads, and lush pads.

There are plenty of assignable knobs and buttons giving you virtually unlimited control over an incredible array of mind-blowing sounds. Take one listen and you’ll know what we’re raving about.

FM Synthesis

Many of the bands you know and love from the 80’s and 90’s (and today) get their unique synth sounds from FM (Frequency Modulation) synthesizers. With sonic timbres ranging from the from the all too familiar “DX Rhodes” piano found in dozens of hit ballads to the instantly recognizable sounds found in Michael Jackson’s Thriller, FM is capable of generating a world of unique new sounds.

The FM synthesis engine on the Fusion can recreate all the great FM sounds of the past as well as go beyond and do things that were never possible on old FM synthesizers. We’re sure the FM timbres on the Fusion will work themselves into tons of platinum albums over the next few years.

Physical Modeling

Physical Modeling is a cutting-edge synthesis technology that is so new, many musicians don’t even know about it yet. The Fusion has it anyway because it’s the mother of all workstations and we think our users will appreciate what it will do for their music.

Have you ever listened to a wind or reed instrument on a keyboard and thought “this doesn’t sound like the real thing!” We have too. This is because analog, FM, and sample-based synthesizers are just not able to recreate the nuances of wind and reed instruments accurately.
Physical modeling is a radically different approach to synthesis and creates sound by calculating how a sound wave behaves inside an instrument like a clarinet or a flute. This results in the most realistic and expressive wind and reed instruments you’ve ever heard coming out of a keyboard.

With physical modeling, you can even create instruments that don’t (or can’t) exist in real life. For example, have you ever wondered what a 30 foot long flute would sound like if played with hurricane-strength wind? Just configure your physical model on the easy-to-edit program menus and find out for yourself!

More Creative Tools

Once a musician has found an inspiring instrument, the Fusion has plenty of functions to make the songwriting process go more smoothly. For example, the Fusion’s advanced arpeggiator has multiple modes tailored for different styles of playing. First, it can function as your typical arpeggiator that plays preset or user defined patterns (like those commonly found in electronic music). The Fusion also has “Phrase arpeggiations” that help you play in styles that might not be familiar to keyboardists such as guitar strumming—creating convincing guitar strumming has never been easier than on a Fusion. The last mode is “Drum arpeggiations.” These are programmed beats that you can use to add drumming in your song. Think of this mode as being a full-featured drum machine that is thrown into the Fusion for free!

The Fusion’s high resolution sequencer was designed from the ground up to capture all the subtleties of your playing. The large LCD display and full graphical editing capabilities help making edits and fixing mistakes easy. That’s only the tip of the iceberg. The Fusion is the first and only workstation that lets you seamlessly mix MIDI and multitrack digital audio. The sequencer records MIDI and multitrack direct-to-disk audio recordings on one screen. Being able to edit MIDI and audio on screen is just like working on a computer (without having to lug around a computer plus monitor, that is). Once you’re done recording, editing, and mixing your composition, you can even burn your mixed down projects on CD using our optional CD recorder. **

With a long list of celebrated synths and recorders like the A6 Andromeda and HD24, you could say Alesis has been around the block a dozen times when it comes to synthesis and recording technology. The combination of these world-class technologies in the Fusion lets you take your idea from concept to a finished recording in one awe-inspiring workstation.

Playing Well with Others

The Fusion is designed for the modern keyboard player. We know you’ll want to move files to and from the workstation from your computer, so we’ve included USB 2.0, ADAT Lightpipe, and Compact Flash connectivity. Moving samples, multitrack recordings, projects, and mixdowns from your workstation has never been easier.

Let’s say you want to create a song away from your studio. Just fire up your Fusion and get to work. When it’s time to move your project to a computer just connect your Fusion to your computer through USB and drag your files to the desktop—it’s as simple as that. The Fusion stores all sound and MIDI data in common formats that can be opened in any DAW software.

The Mother of all Workstations

Over the last two years, we’ve put a lot of love and energy into making the absolute best workstation ever built. We’re sure you’ll agree once you play it and all other workstations will feel weak in comparison. Don’t take our word for it—try one and hear for yourself.


What is the polyphony of the Fusion Synth?

This depends on the types of synthesis being used. Currently gett ing 180 voice polyphony for sample playback synthesis.

Are the sounds in the Fusion new?

Alesis s tarted from scratch and ha s developed a new library of sounds for the sample playback section. There are newly developed sounds for the Analog Modeling section as well as the FM and Physical modeling part as well.

Technology

Fusion - a union by or as if by melting: as a : a merging of diverse, distinct, or separate elements into a unified whole.

Synthesis

The Alesis Fusion has a newly developed synthesizer engine that employs a Coldfire processor surrounded by seven high-performance DSPs. This massively powerful processing core starts by giving you the following four synthesis types: Sample Playback, Analog Modeling, FM and Physical Modeling.

Alesis Dynamic DSP Synthesis™

The Fusion’s synthesis engine is whatever you configure it to be. Maybe you just want regular sample playback synthesis for all of your instruments in one song. The next song has sampled drums and an analog synth lead. The song after that is more esoteric and combines physical modeling and FM synthesis along with analog and sample-based synthesis. It all can happen on the Fusion because of our Dynamic DSP Synthesis engine.

Sample Playback and User Sampling

The Fusion has a unique new approach to the concept of sample playback synthesis. Unlike our competitors’ sample-based workstations, the Fusion is designed to be extremely flexible. Sounds in the built-in 64MB (comparable to 128MB linear) Flash ROM can be exchanged for other samples that are stored on either Compact Flash or the internal 40 Gigabyte Hard disk. This means you have access to a virtually unlimited library of sounds.

You can also easily create your own custom instruments. The Fusion allows you to sample through the analog inputs, or to load in WAV files from your computer via USB (or Compact Flash) to create your custom soundset.

Our optional E2 memory module allows you to expand internal memory. This will add an additional 128MB of RAM on top of the internal 64MB giving you a total of 192MB of memory for sample playback sounds.

Alesis has created a completely new soundset for the Fusion. Our newly developed libraries offer the absolute best collection of top-quality instruments for realistic performance.

Virtual Analog

Alesis has a very strong background in Virtual Analog (VA) synthesis. Over the years we have researched and built many synthesizers (including the real analog monster called the Andromeda) with massive sounds and extremely accurate emulations of classic analog filters.

The Fusion contains a very flexible virtual analog synth. The VA engine offers three oscillators with ring modulation and lots of flexible routing as well. The engine features multiple types of filters with variable poles to emulate the characteristics of many vintage analog synths. The Fusion also offers in-depth modulation assignments of countless parameters. The VA engine in the Fusion goes far beyond other VA synths—even ones that only do virtual analog synthesis. With the user defined modulation table assignments it’s like having a modular analog synth that can remember all your crazy patch cable routes every time you call up the program.

FM Synthesis

The Fusion is the first keyboard in Alesis history to offer Frequency Modulation (FM) synthesis. This radically different and sonically diverse form of synthesis was introduced in the 70’s and has made a major impact on musicians and producers alike.

FM is fundamentally different from our subtractive sample-playback and virtual analog synth engines. Unlike many other kinds of synthesis, FM uses at least two oscillators to make sound. Traditionally, FM uses one operator oscillator that is modulated by a carrier oscillator, but depending on the sound you are looking for, you can have multiple operators or multiple carriers (or both). Each additional oscillator greatly affects your overall sound. While FM synthesis might be a little more complex to understand than other synthesis types, it can produce very unique timbres that just can’t be created using any other methods.

The Fusion’s FM engine is designed to be straightforward and easy to operate. There are six oscillators that can be flexibly routed to either generate sounds or work as carriers. The oscillators can output the following waveforms: sine, sine square root, sine squared, sine warp or white noise. Each of these waveforms offer distinctive sonic variations and give you a wide palette of sounds to choose from.

Our FM signal router is a handy menu that has preset templates allowing users to quickly assemble programs without the difficulty of traditional FM programming. Additionally, you can add envelopes and an LFO to further modulate and shape your stunning new FM sounds.

Physical Modeling

The fourth and final synthesis type on the Fusion uses cutting edge Physical Modeling algorithms. Physical modeling is an advanced new approach for creating sounds that is vastly different from all the other synthesis types found on the Fusion. It uses complex mathematical calculations to compute how a sound wave behaves inside an instrument. This lets you create a “virtual model” of an instrument that you can play and modify in real-time.

A real world example of this is when a flute player changes the pressure and shape of his lips on the mouthpiece while blowing into the instrument. This results in minor changes in the nuances of the flute’s sound. These changes are easy to create using physical modeling but very difficult to do using any other form of synthesis.

Many musicians cringe at the mention of mathematics and algorithms, but they have nothing to fear with the Fusion. Our synth designers carefully created an interface with simple and intuitive parameters that make sense to musicians. This means users can tweak their sounds without having to deal with any complex math or confusing parameters.

A physical model has several real-time parameters for a user to tweak such as Breath, Noise, Jet, Curve, Frequency and Bore Filter. With physical modeling all of these parameters can adjusted in real-time to affect the sound. Traditional instruments such as digital samplers have no way to alter the specifics of the sound because samplers only play static recordings of a sound that can’t be modified by the input parameters.

The Fusion contains two core physical models including “Wind” (flutes) and “Reed” (clarinet, Oboe and Sax). Both of these models are fully adaptable and can be set to model instruments that do not (or can’t) exist in real life. This gives users the ability to tweak existing models or create totally new sound timbres using the powerful physical modeling engine.

Mix up your Synthesis

The Fusion’s synthesis engine is whatever you configure it to be. Maybe you just want regular sample playback synthesis for all of your instruments in one song. The next song has sampled drums and an analog synth lead. The song after that is more esoteric and combines physical modeling and FM synthesis along with analog and sample-based synthesis. It all can happen on the Fusion because of our Dynamic DSP Synthesis engine.

Now that you understand the different components that make up the Fusion’s synth engine, it’s easy to imagine the kinds of music you can create with it. Each synthesis type can be played individually or can be mixed together with other types to form new, composite sounds.

The Mix Mode of the Fusion can have up to eight different instruments (each with a different synthesis type.) This lets you layer and mix different synthesis types to make incredible new sonic atmospheres. Imagine your custom samples, mixed with real world instruments, layered with FM percussive textures, modeled wind instruments and a thick stew of analog filters all in one workstation. The Fusion makes all this possible.

Tone Generator
Fusion Engine Synthesis - Sample Playback, Virtual Analog, FM,
Physical Modeling

Polyphony
Dynamic processor allocation. Up to 180 voices of sample
playback.

Multitimbral Capacity
Mix: 8 internal/16 external, Song: 16 internal/16 external

Waveforms- tones
120 MB (when converted to 16-bit linear format)

Sounds
Preset Instruments: 800 Programs
Preset Drumkits : 64 Drumkits
GM: 128 Programs, plus 8 Drum Kits
User: 40GB of whatever you want

Mixes
200 Mixes

Filters
13 types

Effects- types and amt
20 Reverbs, 10 Chorus, 50 Insert Effects, 4 Band EQ (low shelf, low, mid, high mid, Hi shelve

Sampler

Multi-samples (waveform capacity)
128 samples per Multisample

Sampling sources
Analog Input L/R, Stereo Output (resampling)

A/D Conversion
24 -bit, 64 X oversampling

D/A Conversion
24 -bit, 128 X oversampling

Sampling Frequencies
44.1 kHz

Memory
Memory 64MB installed, optional expansion to 192MB

Sampling Time
11 Min, 53 Sec (with onboard memory), 37 Min, 15 Sec (with full expansion memory)

Sample Formats
Alesis format, wav

Sequencer

Note Capacity
Unlimited / based on HD limitations

Note Resolution
480 ppq

Tracks
32 Tracks

Songs
40GB of whatever you want

Arpeggio
Preset: Preset 1000
User:User Unlimited

Sequence Format
SMF

Controllers
Pitch Bend Wheel, Modulation Wheel, Aftertouch, Assignable Control Knobs (4), Assignable Trigger Buttons (4), Assignable Switches (2)

Display
240 x 128 backlit LCD

External Storage
Compact Flash Type I and Type II (Flash and Microdrives), SATA HD and (by Fall 2005) CD-RW

Connectors
Stereo Input L-Mono/R (Standard 1/4 Jack), Stereo Headphone Output (Standard 1/4 Jack),Stereo Main Output L/R (Standard 1/4 Jack), Stereo Aux Output L/R (Standard 1/4 Jack), S/PDIF Output (Coax/Optical), ADAT Output (Optical), MIDI In/Out/Thru, Sustain Pedal, Footswitch, Expression Pedal, USB (to Host), HD Recording Inputs 1-8 (Standard 1/4 Jack), External Drive (SATA), AC Inlet

Power Consumption
50 W

Dimensions
Fusion 8HD: 51.5x14x5 in, 130.8x35.6x12.7cm
Fusion 6HD: 35.5x14x4 in, 90.2x35.6x10.2 cm

Weight
Fusion 8HD: 58.4 lb, 25.6 kg
Fusion 6HD: 30.4 lb, 13.8 kg


[This message has been edited by Darksounds (edited 04-02-2005).]

It should be one great Workstation Darksounds. With all those features packed into it and the price you pay it is a no brainer in my opinion.

But ultimately the true test will be how good the sounds really are. You can have a ton of cutting edge features but if the sounds don't cut the mustard, i.e. they aren't exceptional, then you may as well look elsewhere. My only concern about the Fusion is how good the acoustic sounds will be. When demos finally get posted on the fusionsynth.com site, then we will get a better picture on how good the bread and butter sounds on the Fusion really are.

Better yet is demoing a Fusion in person and putting it through its paces. That will be the ultimate decision maker on whether it gets a thumbs up or a thumbs down, i.e. it's a winner or in fact turns out to be a dog. My thoughts are it will be a blazing success if the acoustic sounds pass the test for quality and realism. The Synth sounds are already over the top in my opinion, i.e. they are extremely good from what I heard from the NAMM demo.

It may well be the first Workstation I get that remains a keeper. We shall see...

Best regards,
Mike

I agree with Mike - it'd better sound very, very good or all the specs in the world won't make any difference, and I've heard some Alesis keyboards in the past that didn't fare well against their competition for that sole reason.

In many ways, the Alesis sounds similar to the Yamaha Motif except the Motif does thing like virtual sound modeling or FM synthesis through the addition of plug-in cards. That's going to be a problem for the Fusion: it has to trump the competition, not just match it. The Motifs are very well established in the market so if the Fusion doesn't offer more in terms of sound quality and/or feature-set then people won't buy it, especially if they already have a workstation of some sort.

I wouldn't rush to preorder this synth until you've heard it or tried it out for yourself. I really do hope it sounds a good as it reads.

"In many ways, the Alesis sounds similar to the Yamaha Motif except the Motif does thing like virtual sound modeling or FM synthesis through the addition of plug-in cards. That's going to be a problem for the Fusion: it has to trump the competition, not just match it."

lol so eight tracks of recording through 1/4 inputs at 24bit doesn't alone trump the competition...hell thats a feature beyond the 9000$ board from Korg.

" The Motifs are very well established in the market so if the Fusion doesn't offer more in terms of sound quality and/or feature-set then people won't buy it, especially if they already have a workstation of some sort."

You know...if you honestly tried out some stuff from Alesis, you wouldn't make silly statements like this. We already know the VA of the fusion at the very least will be on par with the Ion ( main contrast being Ion has 16 filer types Vs the 13 types of the fusion )...lol does Yamaha even have a VA on the market? Past that how many filter types does the Motif have? Anyhow...back to things we know. From the namm footage we know the fusion has the "holygrail" piano...so think its safe to say piano should be covered. An electric piano was in the demo that was nice. We also know that the sample set for the fusion is ALL NEW...so thinking about Q synths in relation to the fusion is pointless. Hah plus when you have "unlimited" sample space...its really pointless.

88keys for under 2000$...I really dont think Alesis has to worry about how the Fusion stacks up to the Motif, its Yamaha thats gonna have to scramble with something to counter it. Given Alesis has stuff like the Andromeda a monster of an analog synth for the same price ( lower even ) then Yamaha charges for some of their arrangers.

Link to Andromeda demos
http://www.alesis.de/downloads/audiodemos.html

Link to ion demos

http://alesis.com/products/Ion/Demos/

Track 3 "HowWhy" ion

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=4453&alid=-1

The only lacking I see with the Fusion is its insert effects options...yet with all the other freedom offered Im thinking it would be easy to counter.

Anyhow I agree with KeyBplayer...hahah twenty or more hours of demo time should help with how the Fusion pans out If the new samples suck, if the VA is somehow a train wreck, if its OS is just crap and so on...ill be the first ( relative ) to admit or point it out.

Its mostly the insane potential the Fusion could drop off that has me excited. Hell when I first saw pictures of it ( right after the Korg ) I was thinking it would be in the 3 to 4K range...1600$ :P

Yet another link...this one directly related to the Fusion.

http://www.keyboardmag.com/story.asp?sectioncode=29&storycode=5131

I don’t think that we should be too too worried about the sounds on the Fusion or any other new synth today (sounds are so subjective) because all synths are coming to a point where the sounds are comparable to each other and are a starting point for users to change it to their liking.

For me, the Fusion’s selling point is the amount of samples it can play back at one time. It would be nice if it could have sample play back streaming directly from the hard drive using different sample formats.
The only things with sounds would be the drum, percussion and sound effect sounds. Those better be great!! But for that price and having the four sound engines, you can not go wrong.

Still trying it out would be the best thing to do. The OS must be easy to use and they must not have a lot of bugs in the software. I like the fact that you can move files between keyboard and computer. That is good for moving sound samples and other work product files. I wouldn’t mine getting one for myself.

Yeah the online samples I've heard were just synth based sounds and not accoustic sounds so I don't know what those sound like .

The mLAN16e transforms the Motif ES into a 16 channel output, 8 channel input computer audio interface that allows you, simultaneously, to record 14 individual output channels plus the stereo mix to your computer and use insert effects as you record. During playback you can bring 4 stereo busses from your DAW back into the ES to be monitored at the Motif ES's stereo analog output while applying additional Motif ES system and master effects to these busses.

The Fusion has an eight-track hard-disk audio recorder built into it... sorta like the $550 Zoom MRS-802B? I guess if you want that built into your synth then you'll like the Fusion but my computer is still my recorder of choice and the Motif offers a lot of options in that regard.

Quote:

" The Motifs are very well established in the market so if the Fusion doesn't offer more in terms of sound quality and/or feature-set then people won't buy it, especially if they already have a workstation of some sort."

You know...if you honestly tried out some stuff from Alesis, you wouldn't make silly statements like this. We already know the VA of the fusion at the very least will be on par with the Ion ( main contrast being Ion has 16 filer types Vs the 13 types of the fusion )...lol does Yamaha even have a VA on the market? Past that how many filter types does the Motif have? Anyhow...back to things we know. From the namm footage we know the fusion has the "holygrail" piano...so think its safe to say piano should be covered. An electric piano was in the demo that was nice. We also know that the sample set for the fusion is ALL NEW...so thinking about Q synths in relation to the fusion is pointless. Hah plus when you have "unlimited" sample space...its really pointless.

I've tried the Alesis QS 6.1 and 8.2. They were not very good sounding synths - I've been trying to help a freind sell his QS 6.1 with two of the so-called "dance cards" installed for $300 for two years with no takers (you want it?). I also remember the Alesis Nanopiano... that didn't last long either and it sure wasn't popular. I didn't just suddenly decide to not like Alesis - they earned their reputation for less-than-stellar synths all on their own.

Since you asked, Yamaha makes the PLG150-AN analog modeling synth plug-in card for the Motif, and they also make the AN200 analog modeling synth. It's actually easier to do a Google search for Yamaha's product lines than to make bad assumptions.

But to be fair I wasn't crazy about the lack of a hands-on interface for the PLG150-AN and I shopped around for a new VA. I tried out the Alesis Ion, but for my money I liked the Novation X-Station 49 better and I bought one. Makes a nice companion to my Motif ES 8.

Quote:

If the new samples suck, if the VA is somehow a train wreck, if its OS is just crap and so on...ill be the first ( relative ) to admit or point it out.

The Fusion may be the greatest synth Alesis ever made but if it is then it'll be a departure from some of their failed synths of the past. I'm hoping the Fusion turns out better than it's predecessors, that's all.

"I've tried the Alesis QS 6.1 and 8.2. They were not very good sounding synths - I've been trying to help a freind sell his QS 6.1 with two of the so-called "dance cards" installed for $300 for two years with no takers (you want it?). I also remember the Alesis Nanopiano... that didn't last long either and it sure wasn't popular. I didn't just suddenly decide to not like Alesis - they earned their reputation for less-than-stellar synths all on their own."

Go play an Alesis Ion/Micron/Andromeda....

That's what you get for not READING the posts you are responding to... been there, done that...

"That's what you get for not READING the posts you are responding to... been there, done that..."

Sorry...my bad...you played the Ion and ran through its presets in prob under an hour if that at best :P Go play the Micron / Andromeda in the first place and Ion again.

Beyond that you only brought up the Q series that...

(the sample set for the fusion is ALL NEW...so thinking about Q synths in relation to the fusion is pointless)

...( and nanopiano ). Oh but you also dumped on a mountain of you happen to own a Motif now with blah blah blah of your production setup ( or at least a setup that could be done ). So it just seems to me you have a bias to what you already own...I mean heck wasn't it a bit extreme of you to toss out "just add a few thousand of gear to a Motif" to contrast it to the Fusion we haven't played.

"But to be fair I wasn't crazy about the lack of a hands-on interface for the PLG150-AN and I shopped around for a new VA. I tried out the Alesis Ion, but for my money I liked the Novation X-Station 49 better and I bought one."

Starting to catch on when I say Yamaha doesn't have VA or real analog that competes with Alesis. Not a matter of being fair, just a matter of seeing things for what they are.

You know...I would care for your points if your site and music were a bit more reflective of your supposed taste behind your gear ( sorry just when someone speaks of hands on, then has a load of midi driven material quantized all to hell and back just seems kinda odd ). Beyond that...happy you like the Novation its a nice synth

"Since you asked, Yamaha makes the PLG150-AN analog modeling synth plug-in card for the Motif, and they also make the AN200 analog modeling synth. It's actually easier to do a Google search for Yamaha's product lines than to make bad assumptions."

I dint ask...lol and Im still under the assumption that what Yamaha offers doesn't hold a candle to efforts from Korg/Alesis/Nord and so on. Why dont you google me up some review links that say otherwise :P AN200...lol come on now. Right off less polyphony, less filter types, low rez encoders, on top of the fact the unit is more so a table top groove box its STUPID to contrast it to Ion /Micron / Andromeda ( :P even If I just sorta did :P ). Hah but if a groove box thats out of production that Yamaha dint see fit to include in their own product archives is something you wish to make your grand point with...point taken just not how you intended.

" I'm hoping the Fusion turns out better than it's predecessors "

I want it to turn out nice as well, just kinda hard for me to say "in light of its predecessors" given this is the first " workstation " Alesis has put out

Funny thing here...I only brought up Alesis SYNTHS ( not romplers ), to illustrate that we could have something around the same level of their VAs with a 32track sequencer ( if Im thinking right on the 32 ). The synth engine for the Fusion is ALSO all new much like the sample set thats gonna be droped in it. Just given its been common knowledge for years that Alesis VA kicks more or less everyone to the curb ( where relative )...its not hard to extrapolate the new synth engine linked to a sequencer its sample banks user samples and 24bit recording across eight tracks could be a very good thing.

Now IM just gonna wait for what I already know is gonna be said.




[This message has been edited by Alone&Forsaken (edited 04-04-2005).]

I didn't think that would matter much too you. This is your quote, "Hmm well I would occasionally require accustic sounds but my biggest passion is music such as Depeche Mode with Alan Wilder ."

Starkeeper

Hey can't a man change his mind ? lol

I also happen to be a fan of filmscore music . It's true that DM type music is my biggest passion but not the only thing I like . In other words I would not buy a synthesizer with good synths sounds but crappy accoustic sounds . I want something that can do well with both .

Anyway I kind of keep thinking that there must be a catch with this Alesis synth because for all that it offers it is so cheap . The Korg Oasys is way overpriced but I would expect a Workstation that can do all what these can to retail for close to $3000 or even more . Obviously not for $8000 like the Korg Oasys , that's just nuts .

The Fusion ,on paper,looks like a worldbeater.Certainly a better pricepoint than that overpriced "Oasys" thing...

Need to hear how it sounds though.

This is a current picture of my studio, just to erase the idea that my setup is theoretical. The newest component is the Novation X-Station on the front left. I don't know why an experienced opinion like mine gives you concern, but you are ignoring one glaringly obvious fact here: my newest synth isn't a Yamaha or related to the Motif in anyway. I spent the exact same amount of time comparing the X-Station to the Ion and to many other options as well (you haven't said if you've tried an X-Station so my guess is you haven't). The X-Station completely, without any compromise in sound or function, blows the Ion away. Not only is it a true VA with effects built-in but it is a full audio/midi interface with setups for controlling softsynths like Reason v3.0 which I happen to also favor a lot (again, no relation to Yamaha or the Motif). I spend a lot of time and money in music production and I buy the products that not only best suit my needs but represent a good value - the X-Station won that battle against the Ion for me, and if you participated in other forums as often as I do then you'd see that I'm not the only one who thinks so.

The options I added to my Motif added a few hundred, not thousands, to the price... more important to me is whether options exist for customizing the instrument to my personal needs AT ALL.

BTW: this thread started by asking for informed opinions, not personal attacks or for narrow-minded slams against someone's music (you criticize me spending less than an hour trying out an Ion then you form a quick opinion about my musical tastes/abilities based on the few samples I have on my website?). I've spent more than three and a half decades in professional music, so when I spend money on a product, it's usually after through review of ALL options. That gives me nothing less than the equal right to say what I think here when asked. You can criticize my opinions but you don't know my music and you haven't seen me play so don't go there.

Quote:

"But to be fair I wasn't crazy about the lack of a hands-on interface for the PLG150-AN and I shopped around for a new VA. I tried out the Alesis Ion, but for my money I liked the Novation X-Station 49 better and I bought one."

Starting to catch on when I say Yamaha doesn't have VA or real analog that competes with Alesis. Not a matter of being fair, just a matter of seeing things for what they are.

You didn't catch on that I said I didn't like the lack of a hands-on interface and nothing more. Have you tried an X-Station 49? Or are you strictly biased towards Alesis? I mean, c'mon... even you can tell from my studio that not only do I own Yamaha and Novation and I've already mentioned Reason but that I actually considered the Alesis Ion and found seomthing better for the money. That proves I have no bias towards or against any manufacturer. So far I see no evidence that you have anything except a bias towards Alesis.

Quote:

Im still under the assumption that what Yamaha offers doesn't hold a candle to efforts from Korg/Alesis/Nord and so on. Why dont you google me up some review links that say otherwise.

...just kinda hard for me to say "in light of its predecessors" given this is the first " workstation " Alesis has put out

Funny thing here...I only brought up Alesis SYNTHS ( not romplers ), to illustrate that we could have something around the same level of their VAs with a 32track sequencer ( if Im thinking right on the 32 ). The synth engine for the Fusion is ALSO all new much like the sample set thats gonna be droped in it. Just given its been common knowledge for years that Alesis VA kicks more or less everyone to the curb ( where relative )...its not hard to extrapolate the new synth engine linked to a sequencer its sample banks user samples and 24bit recording across eight tracks could be a very good thing.

I've owned and used Alesis products for many years and at one time I worked in a music store and sold them. I knew the factory reps... one day I asked them why they discontinued the popular Alesis Datadisk, which I relied on for my gigs at one time... they told me because it used a Sony disk drive that was no longer made - they decided rather than rewrite the operating system to accomodate other disk drives, they instead dropped the product.

I know you're again ready to blast me with "what does this or ANY of their previous products have to do with their wonderful VA's and their first workstation?" and I'll tell you: I've given several solid factual references to Alesis products that didn't measure up to their competition, didn't last in the market, or were dropped by the company rather than upgraded. Facts, not opinion. If the past performance, reputation and products of a company doesn't matter to you then you suffer from tunnel vision.

I stand by my original post on this thread. I use a Motif ES because it's one of the most powerful instruments on the market today. When I bought it nothing else could compare and it came from a company with extensive experience in building workstations. Today the Motif is a standard against which all other workstations will be judged whether you like it or not. Reviews of the Motif ES stand up against anything even remotely similar (please confirm this yourself before asking me to Google it for you).

The Alesis Ion is a good synth but I found one better. It happens. The Fusion may be great but it has equal potential to suck and I think everyone here has already said that. For all I know I may buy a Fusion someday myself... but only if it's the best value for the money compared to everything else and IF I believe that Alesis is the kind of company I want to rely on, again.

Go try an X-Station, just so you know what Alesis is already falling behind...

Pro,
Very nice set up you got there Wish mine looked like that.

Squeak

I'm by no means an expert but it seems to me the Alesis Fusion is underpriced for it's specs and the Korg Oasys overpriced . Anyone agree ?

Now no company is generous and gives products away cheaper for no reason so I'm just a tad suspicious on the Fusion .

I totally agree the Korg is FAR over priced, but I think the Fusion is sitting at par. Thinking the Fusion is 1700 or something, a couple hundred you can the X, it really brings it into the picture. Besides the HD of the fusion, id still rather have the Fantom by far! Im glad my e-mail helped some, if ya have any more questions let me know! Also, if you do end up with the Fantom and get the supreme dance, please let me know how it is, that is on my list Im really interested in the construction of this board, to me it looks like a toy, plasticy and very futuristic. It should be pretty cool. BTW Dark, you can easily hook a Fantom to your sound system. It has many L/R stereo 1/4ths and stuff, I cant imagine you couldnt.

Phil

lol some keyboards hooked to a pc...hahaha I just did a "dime a dozen" thingy with scores of setups much like that pictured in it. Sorry my experience goes a bit beyond that. Not to say you cant do great things within that environment ( or any environment for that matter ).

Beyond that Mr music production...what records are you on? What have you gotten broadcast? What band or bands do you play live with? what engineering credits do you have? What instruments outside of keys do you play? have you gotten your music production work on Broadway? Have you voted on the Grammy's? any of your work gain you four star reviews in rollingstone?

I read your bio and offer you respect for your accomplishments...I find the planetarium soundscape work you did to be a very cool thing and so on. Just please dont show me some keys hooked to a PC tell me about production work with some hint of attitude...when I already knew what your setup was :P more fodder for the next " dime a dozen " granted your setup is on the mid to high spectrum of home studios ive seen for what it is.

"The X-Station completely, without any compromise in sound or function, blows the Ion away. Not only is it a true VA with effects built-in but it is a full audio/midi interface with setups for controlling softsynths like Reason v3.0 which I happen to also favor a lot (again, no relation to Yamaha or the Motif)."

Yeah I noticed it has an insane amount of effects...lol just I feel the Ion sounds great without effects and beyond that would rather run through external effects then built in ( unless built in just kicks and sometimes they do ). As for midi and softsynths...I dont have any use for softsynths, for me regardless there is a disconnection I dont like when triggering anything off midi, I would rather play a separate instrument with better real time feel of its nuances ( hahah even if its a digital instrument ).

" I spend a lot of time and money in music production and I buy the products that not only best suit my needs but represent a good value "

Then why dont you extend that mindset to others that do the same?

"The options I added to my Motif added a few hundred, not thousands, to the price... more important to me is whether options exist for customizing the instrument to my personal needs AT ALL"

LOL yeah if you just leave the PC that your recording to out of the equation:P Sorry...but pc/soundcard/interface/programs are ALL part of the cost. Customizing a instrument to your taste becomes REAL simple...if you just play the parts and record them.

" you don't know my music and you haven't seen me play so don't go there."

NOTE what I said at first. Sorry I left of the line "not to insult your musicianship" cause guess what from your clips on your site...I can tell your a fine musician. I only wish to hear complete soundscapes and full songs done by you manually real time thats all. Beyond that I dont need to know your music to know I can do stuff at least on par with it. Hence the first set of questions I asked in this post.

"Or are you strictly biased towards Alesis? I mean, c'mon... even you can tell from my studio that not only do I own Yamaha and Novation and I've already mentioned Reason but that I actually considered the Alesis Ion and found seomthing better for the money. That proves I have no bias towards or against any manufacturer. So far I see no evidence that you have anything except a bias towards Alesis."

lol thats grand...I can put scores of companies gear that I use. As for being biased with Alesis...is there any way you can say the Ion is a BAD synth? Could you say the Ion is a BAD example of VA? All things are relative...to the extent of could you say a keyboard with a 32 track sequencer that perhaps sports the relative quality of VA as the Ion is a BAD idea? Hummm who seems biased here. I mean your the one that keeps digging unrelated examples from Alesis past ( when the company is under new ownership/magement now ) and cant even admit relativity speaking when they do something good in the present.

" know you're again ready to blast me with "what does this or ANY of their previous products have to do with their wonderful VA's and their first workstation?" and I'll tell you: I've given several solid factual references to Alesis products that didn't measure up to their competition, didn't last in the market, or were dropped by the company rather than upgraded. Facts, not opinion. If the past performance, reputation and products of a company doesn't matter to you then you suffer from tunnel vision."

Im not gonna blast you but ( when the company is under new ownership/magement now ) could mean something :P Outside of that...lol want to start listing off the failures of every other company, Alesis isnt the only one out there that has made stupid choices that caused those that supported them to suffer. Facts not opinions

" stand by my original post on this thread. I use a Motif ES because it's one of the most powerful instruments on the market today. When I bought it nothing else could compare and it came from a company with extensive experience in building workstations. Today the Motif is a standard against which all other workstations will be judged whether you like it or not. Reviews of the Motif ES stand up against anything even remotely similar "

LOL the one that talks about bias...the one that talks about " getting the gear that works for you " is telling me about the most powerful instrument on the market today. Seems you might be a bit biased ( or just hypocritical )...sorry man hate to break it to you but offerings from Korg and Roland are just as much an industry standard as the Motif.

"The Alesis Ion is a good synth but I found one better. It happens. The Fusion may be great but it has equal potential to suck and I think everyone here has already said that."

I think the key here is you found one better for YOU...past that I agree with the last part here. Sorry just I fail to see how midi control and a bunch of effects relate to analog synth emulation:P


"Go try an X-Station, just so you know what Alesis is already falling behind..."

Lets see...I dont use loops, I dont use any sequencers, I dont use midi very often, I dont use soft synths, Ive got a wealth of external digital and analog effects, I do most recording open air through random amps...That about kills off all the advantages you stated the X-Station offers for me.

Unless I wish to go for a unit with less program banks, less setup banks, give up the pitch bend mod wheels for a joystick/ribbon controller, less knobs many that are just low rez encoders, give up the extensive patch options of the mod matrix, give up tons of filter types, toss drift out the window, then pay 50$ more then what I got years ago :P

All ive got to say, spin it however you want cause you will anyway.

To me, it seems that the “low price” of the Fusion is not that it is of inferior quality, but a business decision for marketing purposes. I would think that they would want to penetrate the market.

As the discussion in this thread has shown, regardless of which side you take, Alesis does not have a part in the synth/workstation market like Korg, Yamaha and Roland. So in order to get to where the big three are, they have to offer a superior product and at a very competitive price. To me, that is what they are doing with the Fusion. I wish some arranger manufacturers would take a leaf out of that book. Contrast that with Roland coming out with a keyboard like the Fusion, they could easily start at 2500 for that keyboard because they have a large part of the synth/workstation market to play with.

To the other extreme, Korg with their new board has taken their market power in the work/station market too far. That thing is just too over priced and they may not get a good return on it. Even if you have market power, you just have to know when to stop.

Alone & Foresaken:

I am ending our discussion. You still insist on turning a synth discussion into a personal attack, which is immature of you and a waste of my time. It's especially cowardly to be disrepectful of my music and career without providing me with the same opportunity to see who you are and read your bio, your recording credits, etc. Since you have no website or bio listed with your identity then it's only logical to assume you have none of the credits that you are asking of me and you are not to be taken seriously. Come back when you remedy that and can manage to discuss synths and arrangers without resorting to childish insults and we'll talk further.

Now the fact that the Alesis Fusion looks like a toy is something I definetly agree with . It's possible though that the Fusion is aggresively priced because they wish to get into the market .

As far as the Korg is concerned I think their decision to set such a high retail price will come back to bite them in the ass because many people simply can not afford such a price tag even if they think the Oasys rocks .

Well Pennywizard I would say I probably will indeed end up with the Fantom X regardless of this Fusion . You're right the Fantom X has standard outputs which should be more than capable with my sound system .

I'll let you know how the Supreme Dance Card sounds if I do end up getting it .

"Alone & Foresaken:
I am ending our discussion. You still insist on turning a synth discussion into a personal attack, which is immature of you and a waste of my time. It's especially cowardly to be disrepectful of my music and career without providing me with the same opportunity to see who you are and read your bio, your recording credits, etc. Since you have no website or bio listed with your identity then it's only logical to assume you have none of the credits that you are asking of me and you are not to be taken seriously. Come back when you remedy that and can manage to discuss synths and arrangers without resorting to childish insults and we'll talk further."

Did you fail to notice the track I posted for you....

Great job countering my points...

This is a quote and some pics from Messe regarding the Alesis Fusion:

-----------------------------------------
alesis showed their 50ies radio style cadillac synth: fusion synth.
pm stuff, 6 OP FM with multi stage ENVs, has 8LFOs,8ENVs..
sounded ok, but crashed after some minutes

If their new line of mixers is any indication they are having big time quality control problems.

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 04-07-2005).]

You know I read a preliminary review about the same thing with the unit crashing. I think Alesis even said that the unit was crashing, and that it was still under development and they haven't gotten all the bugs out of the OS yet. It will still be interesting when it's released though. If they get the sounds right, and a stable OS, I think this unit is going to give the Motif ES a good run for the money.

Squeak