Some Questions for the PA3X Experts

Learning the Korg system is a daunting task to say the least . . . But, I will persist . . .

I often use a background harmony voice with my right hand using the ensemble function. I have noticed that if I use an Ending 1, the harmony notes are muted when I try to play through the ending. This happens for every style that I have checked. That doesn't happen with endings 2 or 3. And, it doesn't happen with the microArranger. Is there a way to edit the style or operating system so that this doesn't happen? If not, I must learn to avoid ending 1's. Almost a show stopper . . .

While I am on the ensemble subject, I would like to prevent a voice change from changing the ensemble harmony setting. I haven't found a way to lock the ensemble setting. Does anyone know how to do this?

I am not enamored with the way Korg stuff seems to want to make my decisions for me. I like the ability to select an STS setting with changes in style variations but in my opinion, the default should be to not make changes like that unless the musician chooses to turn the option on. I also like the option of having a voice selection change the ensemble to a desired setting that works well with the voice. But, that's a decision I would prefer to make rather than having the keyboard make those changes. Several such options are selected by default when you turn the keyboard on. It is time consuming to remember to change all that stuff before saving performance data.

Hi Bob
Intros 2 & 3 and endings 2 & 3 have been specifically designed for you to play your own chords etc etc, whereas Intro 1 and & Ending 1 are specific "mini" sequences designed to be "left to play by themselves" - changing chords etc with Intro & Ending 1 can have some weird results (for example - your last chord in your song may have been C, pressing Ending #1 could then play for 8 measures or more changing its own chords several times - "Ensemble and LOWER" will not follow those chord sequences in Intro/Ending #1.) When you build a STYLE from scratch your INTRO/ENDING 1 can be anything you like, whereas the other INTRO/ENDING must be built on a single chord - usually Cmaj7 (but you need to get into STYLE building to understand more etc...)

Getting into any professional level arranger can be very daunting at first. I am not sure how "new" you are to the PA but this is always my advice to new owners:-
1. Spend time going through the first 100 pages of the PA manual - usually entitled "Quick Guide". This sounds a lot but it isn't - what it will do is familiarise you with Korg arranger terminology and all the necessary "basics" to get you started. Work through those pages with your keyboard ON and next to you so you can play as you learn.
2. The next bit of advice is to take one MODE at a time and experiment with it e.g. STYLE PLAY MODE.

The beauty of the Korg PA2/3 is flexibility - you can basically set it up any way you want - you have control - unlike the Tyros (for example), however this is at the cost of patience and becoming familiar with its features. (I wasn't suggesting you are impatient, I just know how I am with these things...)


These are simply "out-of-the-box" settings - the PA2/3 is fully flexible and every PERFORMANCE/STS/STYLE/SOUND?SAMPLE etc..etc.. can be changed to suit your exact requirements.

"Ensemble" locking. One way to achieve your requirement is to either switch off STS which means that no matter what style you load the sounds and voice setup is unchanged - then you can load the individual SOUNDs as required. Another is to re-write the STS or PERFORMANCEs with the "ensemble" setting you want - they will then remain for all time.

You can have the PA power up with the settings you want by setting up the keyboard and writing that current environment in PERFORMANCE position #1. PERFORMANCE #1 is the one that the keyboard will load on power up.

I hope this helps a bit, Bob. Please persist - you have the best of the best with Korg. IMHO the only keyboard that could have come close a few years ago was the Ketron Audya (now way behind the times...)

Once you get some familiarity, you will not look back.
Am here to help my friend - keep the questions coming.....

All the best

Pete

Bob when I first used an intro or and ending I wondered why the ensemble was not working; the ensemble did start after the intro was over. I came up with; hey this is a great idea. With all that’s going on during an intro or an ending all I want is a single note to blend in. And yes they do think ahead.

Bob, stay with it the people who designed the keyboard were thinkers with you and I in mind. The 14 years I sat learning the Technics way of doing, now I am having to put that side; if not I am left confused.

You wrote: "I am not enamored with the way Korg stuff seems to want to make my decisions for me". I feel that is because your mind is still Technics.

I am beginning to use the STS settings (of my choice)and adding the performance area.

My #1 performance area is set up with 8 different instrument set ups; Piano – Trumpet -- Sax section –ect. That gives me a total of 8 plus 4 -12 instrument settings more than enough to add flavor to the song. If you add the song book to what you are doing you will find that you have control over many areas; for one word FANTASTIC!

Keep going Bob, John C.

PS, With Korg you can program 160 Performances (Panel Memories) to your liking; Fantastic. Unlike other keyboards I have used the majority of instrument set ups in the performance area are almost too good to change. And when you add John Smies collection you will reach a higher level of enjoyment.

Thank you, Pete. I think I need to focus on one question at a time.

I have studied the manual for about two weeks. When you are in your 80's some things come slowly. . .

I already have my initial "setup" in performance 1-1. Have done all the global changes I can find before the setup was written into performance 1. I can not find a way to cause the STS button to be OFF when I first turn on the keyboard. It always defaults to ON. Am I missing something?

No problem Bob - completely understand but none of this comes instantly easy for anyone. I am very familiar with Korg arrangers and I always must remind myself that I went through the exact same learning curves - there is still heaps I haven't learned yet like guitar mode, drum kit editing etc..etc..

Re: STS button - I am not sure if the PA3X is different as mine doesn't arrive until next week so I can't experiment. Maybe that is one option that doesn't save although I would have thought it should......I'll check some more....

Take your time - you'll grow to love this keyboard.
Whatever I can help with, please let me know.

Cheers

Pete

The STS must be turned off after powerup.
I have a few keystrokes I must do before I play:
1. STS OFF (2 pushes)
2. Tempo lock ON

Ready to jam!

Thank you, Dave. That's what I have found also.

Still on the honeymoon here - this is the BEST fit I've ever had. I'm even OK without the speakers b/c of the Bose Compact. It's an awesome rig.
I LOVE, love, love the layout of the buttons and sliders. Sexiest keyboard on the market - hands down!

I agree, Dave. I also think the voicing is superb.

There is one additional button that I can't get to stay where I want it when I turn on. I want the Style Change button to be ON so that when I select a performance, it also selects the style for that performance. It defaults to OFF. Once the keyboard is on and things are set right, the buttons will stay where we want till it is turned off. I guess I'm out of phase with the software developers for this keyboard.

It's like doing a pre-flight check before take off. I neglected to check the STS button several times when I first turned on, and was surprised by all the changes that took place that I didn't expect. . .

John, you said:

"Bob when I first used an intro or and ending I wondered why the ensemble was not working; the ensemble did start after the intro was over. I came up with; hey this is a great idea. With all that’s going on during an intro or an ending all I want is a single note to blend in. And yes they do think ahead."

I don't think it is a great idea at all. It is unnatural to have voices abruptly shut off on the first beat of an ending, even if it is background voicing. I have been playing thru "canned" endings for years with other keyboards. In fact I still do it with my Roland AT350C and KN7000's. And, it works fine with the little microArranger. It's OK, though. I don't like long canned intros and endings anyway. Anything past four measures is too long for me. Too often, when you use them, they sound like a totally different song. So, I will probably stick with Endings 2 and 3 for the most part. I hope I will be able to take advantage of the intro and ending 1 buttons with styles I have edited without having the same problem.

I was wrong above about the Style Change button. Found a style preferences software toggle and was able to write it into global settings. So the Style Change button is now ON when I first start up.

Say Bob,
Maybe the Korg engineers needed to be sure that there's enough polyphony for the ending they paid so much to program, and the ensemble harmony just eats up too much of it to leave room for the ending voices. You figure - a 4 note chord in the right hand with a 3 note ensemble sound is 12 notes right there - factor in if any of those sounds use more than one partial (tone) per sound and you could easily be using 40-50 (or MORE) notes of polyphony with just your right hand alone.

You have an excellent point, Dave. Would be interesting to know . . .

Bob, you said:

I don't think it is a great idea at all. It is unnatural to have voices abruptly shut off on the first beat of an ending, even if it is background voicing. I have been playing thru "canned" endings for years with other keyboards. In fact I still do it with my Roland AT350C and

Bob, I’m not sure I understand. I went to my keyboard after reading your post; when the intro starts the voice I have previously selected has no harmony and that’s great because the band has the intro and I just want to add and fill in with the band -- and it’s the same with the ending. If you are not getting this I’m betting you have the Single Touch on.

John C.

Bob, The fills work the same way if you have the Single Touch on and it’s flashing.
The sounds reverts to the variation/Single Touch that is being used. If you are playing with variation 1 and it has piano; then select a trumpet from STS the – and you are still using variation 1 the fill or ending will change the instrument back to piano.

John C.

John, I almost never use a canned intro. I am talking about playing thru an ending. If you are playing voicing that uses the ensemble function (assume a sax trio), on the first beat of an ending 1 all the harmony notes abruptly end. It doesn't make sense to stop playing at the first beat of the ending and a solo sax at that point doesn't sound right.

I do not have Single Touch on.

It's not a big deal for me. I don't like long canned endings anyway. I'm finding that ending 2 works great for me even when I'm not using the ensemble function.

I'm almost certain Dave is right. I am finding drop-outs occasionally when I am playing complex voicing with a rhythm.

I'm just wondering if some of the abrupt endings, particularly on ending 3, bother you as much as they do me.
Some of them have a nice, natural decay at the end, but too many of them just shut off immediately, and they don't sound natural at all.j It's like someone pulled the power plug and all the sound just cuts off.
DonM

I agree, Don. I have found several styles that I avoid because of similar issues. As I learn more about the keyboard I assume I will be replacing those with other styles. I have also found that I can use ending 3 to shut up a long winded ending that seems to go on and on. So I sometimes start with ending 2 and then hit the ending 3 button to shorten the ending pattern.

It does take some experimenting. My next step will be to go in and edit the endings I don't like, then save them right to the factory locations.
Unfortunately I am working every night for the next couple weeks and won't have the keyboard at home for a while. Actually I should say I'm FORTUNATE to be working every night!
DonM

Hello Bob,

I've just been reading your comments on the Korg and I can fully understand your frustration as that's how I get with the Yamaha Tyros 4 (despite all the hype, it isn't anywhere near as User Friendly as the KN keyboards) but to get back to the subject, I wonder whether you are aware that Korg have Tuition DVDs on the market, admittedly they are not free, but I would think if you purchased them, it would save you a great deal of hassle and frustration. I am not sure how many DVDs there are in the pack but I understand they cover everything you need to know about the Korg PA3X. Maybe it would be worthwhile visiting the Korg website.

Hope this helps in some way.

Audrey

Hi Audrey,

Sometimes I tend to dramatize stuff that isn't as bad as I put on. It is true that the Korg system is incredibly complicated when compared to the Technics system, but I'm catching on to the Korg system OK. You are right, there are several good tutorials, some of which are free, at the Korg site. The PA800 tutorial, for example, was a great help to me early on, as were comments by Don Mason and Donny (DNJ).

Voicing on the PA3X is fantastic. Many functions of the Korg are actually better than my KN7000's but others are less functional than the Technics stuff. I miss having 24 registrations that I can select incrementally with a foot pedal as I progress through a song, like the KN7000 gives. And I'm still trying to settle in on specifically how I want to use the Songbook setups. There are only four STS (Single Tough Settings) selections available for a given song setup. They work almost exactly like Panel Memory buttons on the KN7000 (which gives 24 selections). The Korg Songbook is very similar to the Favorite Songs function of the KN7000, although they function in a different way.

Things are going well with both the MicroArranger and the PA3X.

Audrey wrote:
With the Yamaha Tyros 4 (despite all the hype, it isn't anywhere near as User Friendly as the KN keyboards) but to get back to the subject, I wonder whether you are aware that

Audrey a while back I said the same thing until I realized that I put in a good 19 years with Technics; It was not user friendly at the beginning. I now find Yamaha and Technics keyboards both friendly; I have been with Yamaha for five years. Soon the Korg OS will become friendly. Each learning curve has brought me more understanding abouy keyboards in general.

John C.

Hi John,

I've been with Yamaha about 2 years and still think the O.S. is outdated and somewhat complicated. I fail to understand why it is necessary to push so many buttons to setup and access registrations, styles etc. I find this very time consuming and often frustrating, particularly when using third party styles as despite being very careful to set and link them to the on-board styles, some still refuse to load properly and this can be very embarrassing when playing live.
So much so, I no longer take out my Tyros, but use my faithful KN7000 for which I have a huge variety of registrations and styles from various sources and which has never failed to load in all the years I've had it.

I understand your comment about the learning curve and the need to keep up with the times, but I also understand that the Yamaha O.S. has changed very little since the original Tyros keyboard, I think that in this day and age, it should be much simpler to use. After all, you've only to look at the TVs, Internet, mobile phones and digital gadgets in general, to realise just how far behind Yamaha are with their technology.

Last year, I went to the Keyboard Cavalcade Music event at Pakefield. It had been several years since I was last there and I could see and hear a change in almost every instrument that was played. In fact, I spent a lot of my time listening to and playing the Korg PA3X keyboard which I think has been very well designed and so has the Wersi Pegasus keyboard, both instruments are much easier to operate simply because it is mostly a case of what you see, is what you get. No messing about with separate buttons for songs, styles, registrations etc.

So! for me, my vote is still with the Technics KN7000 keyboard.

Audrey

Audrey, you wrote: “I no longer take out my Tyros, but use my faithful KN7000 for which I have” Those words are so sweet and I do understand.

John C.

Bob, When a style is selected the STS light is on which means that the 4 STS settings have been loaded. If it is not on you may find that you will have not loaded the 4 settings; the STS settings will not have changed. A blinking light is a different story.

Bob at 80 I find this fun. Its music and learning something new; according to my book that’s the best way to keep a mind healthy.; learning something new.

John C.

Hi Bob sounds like I have some work for me also. I have a PA3 waiting for me back in Dallas when I get back there in April from our current trip in Florida. I will be looking thru these forums to see what some have already discovered. Have you tried to move KN7000 rythmns to the PA3? I have a ton of rythmns set up for songs on my KN7000 and Im hoping I can somehow move those. Abeit I got the PA3 for a Piano (76 key) as Im attempting to learn Jazz Piano and not to replace my KN7000. I think I ll keep both boards. Sounds like we need a user group for the PA3 now.

Marty, I'm keyboard poor . . . Got two KN7000's that I just can't let go, a Roland combo organ, and the Korg MicroArranger as well as the PA3X. Several other midi controllers, etc. You should definitely keep the KN7000. You will find yourself returning to it for enjoyment for quite a while. I have been over a month with the PA3X and am just now finding that I am beginning to enjoy what I am doing. Voicing and button layout is the best I've seen but the operating system is a nightmare! That's to be expected because just about everything is editable and the price for that is a complicated operating system.

Many of the Technics styles that have already been converted by other folks can be found on the net. Converting styles just isn't "my thing" so to answer your question, no I haven't converted any Technics styles.

Hi.

A nightmare ...... well, that's almost the same as I said about Ketron when SD1 replaced the KN5k and the years as Technics user ended.
I think those of us who ever learned how easy and userfriendly it is to operate Technics OS has a drawback when we start explore new brands.
We probaby have to be "brainwashed" to empty our top floor, and start all over again.
Anyway, at the end I guess it's like everything else. If you ever mange to learn how it works (an if it works), it's easy!

I have to admit I find myself reading and listening to more and more of the PA3X stuff. Sitting on the fence counting on the buttons and ready to jump........
But there's so many things to do during the spring and summer, so no jumping before Sept. / Oct.

Cheers
GJ

Thanks for the info i WILL INDEED KEEP MY kn7000. I still think the Kn7000 has been the best keyboard produced from quality sounds to ease of use. I will have 30 days to use the PA3 and still return it for a full credit so I ll be looking close how fast I can learn some of the ins and outs. As for what I really need is a simple piano and I can get a Yamaha Piano for under $500 so if I forsee alot of work on the PA3 I will definately return it. Albeit a replacement for the KN7000 would be a comfort due to the fact that if anything ever goes haywire with the KN7000 a replacement would be comforting.

Marty, don't give up on the PA3X after only 30 days. Or, if you feel you have to make a go or no go decision in 30 days, be sure to work hard in that time frame. It is a great keyboard in so many ways. It just takes a while to do as Gunnar said in "emptying the upper floor" . . . I am finding other acceptable ways to do things that at first I thought I couldn't do with the PA3X. Rikki sent me some styles that solve the problem that Intro and Ending 1 cause with the ensemble function. So that problem will go away with editing that I will be doing later.

I am also impressed with the PA3X score display system. That will be an area that I will want to spend a lot of time learning later.

How are the fingers doing now with the guitar, Gunnar? Your tenacity should soon put you on a par with the best guitar players. Have you done any style conversion of Technics to Korg that might help Marty?

Well, I've learned that sore fingers do hurt a bit
I guess it needs time and tons of patience, and some time between the lessons to make the fingertips grow.
Not as eager as I was at the beginning, but the guitar is easier to bring along when take trips with the MotorHome,
so we'll see........

Latest update of EMC have PA3X as an option, so convert should work. So far I have not converted much, but
it's no problem convert a few if Marty want me to.
If so, I need the material he want to convert, cause I don't have any KN7k or other KN's to copy files from.

John says: "Its music and learning something new; according to my book that’s the best way to keep a mind healthy."

Yes John I agree with your comment and a few weeks ago, I read in our local newspaper that scientists have been researching the various causes of Alzeimers, Dementia etc. and have officially confirmed that people who play musical instruments have a much more active brain than many, and sustain this activity much longer, well into their senior years. So it would seem - WE MUSICIANS ARE AMONG THE BRAINIEST IN THE WORLD - (we knew that already didn't we?) LOL

Audrey

Gunner, Share what you are learning on guitar and maybe we can add.

John C.