naughty KN7000

MY KN 7000 THAT I BOUGHT NEW 9 YEARS AGO HAS SUDDENLY REVERSED THE TECH AND MIDI MODES---KEYBOARD HAS NEVER HAD TO BE SERVICED---
WE HAVE INITIALISED IT [ACCORDING TO PAGE 197 OF OWNERS MANUAL] AS WELL AS THE FULL FACTORY INITIALISING
ANY TECH DISC OR SD CARDS SHOWS AND PLAYS AS MIDI --- EVERYTHING WANTS TO PLAY AT A SPEED OF 300.
ALSO THE FINGERED APC IS NOT AVAILABLE SO THE PLAYING CAN BE DISCORDED.
BY PUTTING IN THE ORIGINAL [INITIAL DATA DISK ] IT SHOWS IN THE SCREEN AS MIDI.
IF I PUT IN A MIDI FLOPPY IT SHOWS AND READS AS TECH SONG.

CAN ANYONE OUT THERE HELP ?-
I AM NEW TO SYNTH ZONE SO HOPE SOMEONE HAS AN ANSWER TO RECTIFY THE PROBLEM THAT MAKES THE K7 USELESS'
THE KN7000 IS CURRENTLY 1.4
IF WE INSTALL A 1.6 VERSION WOULD THAT IN ANY WAY HELP OR TOO BIG OF A RISK TO COMPLETELY CRASH THE KEYBOARD ?
DEMO SONGS IT PLAYS OK.

THANKS FROM DAVE L. [ IN NEW ZEALAND ]
.

As I mentioned in my emails to you Dave, I hope that Alec may read your post and possibly offer some advice.

It does sound like a corrupted Operating System, rather than a hardware problem so the solution would seem to be to replace / upgrade.

Hello again,

Are you able to initialise the Midi department in KN7000 ?
The Manual says normal initialising does not include the Midi [page 197 of manual ]
Our keyboard as described in the above explanation problems states that the TECH and MIDI options have reversed

The factory INITIAL DATA DISK when put in the KN7000 shows up as midi which must be wrong

Dave L.

Hi Dave,
It is indeed possible to Initialise the MIDI settings, but doing so, will only reset the MIDI parameters back to their default condition. If you wish to try, just follow the procedure on Page 197 but select 'MIDI SETTING' instead of 'PERFORMANCE'.
I very much doubt if that will cure your current problem.....

Thanks Bill,
Sorry to say that suggestion doesn't work.
Actually I had earlier initialised Performance as well as initialising all individually of all the other items on the initialising list.

I had seen on the opposite side of page 197 that User Midi Favourites etc. could not be initialised by the initialised process---- hence my latest query.
Dave L.

I will just have to be patient in the hope someone in the Technics world has a clue to our problem.

It's the most baffling one I've come across - maybe it's time to go for ver 1.6 on the basis that you've nothing to lose...Rog

Help required for our sick KN7000

Today we have succesfully upgraded the KN7000 to 1.6

Problem still stays the same as our first forum question.

Any suggestions welcome ---- before we dig a hole for the loved KN7000.
Technics and Midi modes reversed and you can't correct this.

Have Of the 300 that have looked at this in the last week ever heard of a fault like this ?
I will have to stop telling our many Technics friends in New Zealand that you can't fault a Technics--- Initialising usually will correct everything ----- at least that was until a month ago when our K7 went BELLY UP

Thanks in anticipation.

Dave L.

If your keyboard is unobtainable, you can test with this test the hardware and localize errors.
To run the tests, the red buttons on the key presses and then switches with keys held down the key.

Thanks Harry,
I have printed off the Key graphs
Question.
Where do I find what the K7 should be
I have looked in the Owners and service manual and haven't found these graphs of specifications.
We must not give up yet.

Thanks from Dave L.

Thanks Harry,
I have printed off the Key graphs
Question.
Where do I find what the K7 should be
I have looked in the Owners and service manual and haven't found these graphs of specifications.
We must not give up yet.

Thanks from Dave L.

Hi Dave,

have you carried out the tests?
Been displayed errors in the display?

I'll carry on my private messages with Dave L here.

I'm afraid it's looking like a hardware fault or corruption of the internal flash memory.

You need to hold down C#3, D#3 and C#4 and switch on. This will give 12 pages of comprehensive tests. Do all the integrated circuit tests on the first few pages and the later pages.

In desperation you could also overwrite the flash areas of custom memory, home page, favourites and user midi settings from the initial data disk.

Apart from that it's a bench test with a competent technician.

Thanks Harry and Technicsplayer for your latest comments
Harry the tests you suggested are OK .

Technicsplayer we will try out more extensive tests when my friend can assist me
Yesterday we downloaded the service manual.
I am a retired Motor mechanic and know how useful a manual is.
Unfortunately I don't understand electronics but with help we have been able to make some progress in some tests

Seeing others haven't experienced our problem we will have to be patient.

Dave L.

Hello Dave,

I've been following this post with great interest.

I know it's perhaps a silly question, but are any of the floppies you're trying to use 'locked'? Looking at the label side, my SX-KN7000 Initial Data Disk has two holes at the bottom. On the back side, the right hand hole can be locked by pushing the 'write-protect' tab upwards. (They are currently both open).

According to the Manual, and I quote: "Storage is not possible when the tab is open. Storage is only possible when the tab is closed" so I was wondering whether an open or closed tab is preventing the disk from loading properly.

I've also looked in my SX-KN7000 REFERENCE GUIDE. MIDI is covered from page 31 onwards, starting with a MIDI Implementation Chart. I have to admit it baffles me, but obviously, you are familiar with it so maybe there is an answer to your problem listed there.

Hope this helps in some way.

Audrey

Hello Audrey,
Thanks for taking the time in putting forward your thouhts,
If you re-read the initial comment on the forum posts you may realise its an unusual problem
Nothing to do with a floppy or SD Card.
The K7 just on its own---if initialised puts the Keyboard in the Midi mode

In any mode you cannot access the Fingered mode under APC
If you put in a Tech disc with a song on it goes to midi and it discords as it can't access the fingered mode. and wants to play everything at a speed of 300.
If a floppy is inserted that is Midi it loads in as Tech

I have been wondering where the long standing Technics Forum people are, but things are waking up---- We sincerely hope that in time we will eventually get the problem sorted or have to buy another keyboard.
Unfortunately Mr Technics has made things very difficut for owners of their products [servicing, parts etc. ]---- we own more than 6 Technics products--- keyboard , organ and PR900 piano. We are grateful for the several help messages we have received via Technics Forum as well as direct emails.

Dave and Viv L.

For those watching progress on our sick KN7000
Further exploritory tests will be done on Tuesday 18th Sept.
Any further helpful suggestions or condolances welcome.

Hey the technician had better not nick one of its vital Organs

Hasn't the Kn7000 got some great quality Organ sounds
[ thats when it behaves like it was designed to do ].

Dave L.

Wow! rather you than me Dave. I think I would take the easy way out and buy an old one from e-bay or similar site, just to get the spare parts. Meanwhile, I've looked in my Music files and found the following three names and addresses who may be able to help:-

Repairs and Spare Parts Technics KN7000:
Tel: 01702 546195
Fax: 91702 546195
email: bill@wdgreenhill.com

Repairs and Spare Parts - Staffordshire Organ Services:
John Lunt
378 Walsall Road
Walsall WS6 6DN
Tel: 01922 412583
email: luntwilrose@aol.com

Graham Tilney, Technote
Steel Close
Eaton Socon
St. Neots
Cambs PE19 8TT
Te: 01480 470320

I realise that Technote no longer deal with Technics instruments, but they may still have some ex Technics engineers working for them who could help you.

Worth a try anyway - good luck!

Audrey

So did you try overwriting the flash areas of custom memory, home page, favourites and user midi settings from the initial data disk as was suggested?

Hello Nigel,
Putting in the original supplied floppy initial data disk the K7 screen shows up as Midi ----shows 4 segments on the disc --- If I endeavor to change to the Tech screen shows nothing on the disc .
Original problem showing it fangs

Midi and Tech reversed to where they should be.
I did load all the 4 items separately when it said Midi Mode and it did nothing to correst the problem
In a few days time my computer friend will assist me in doing the more extensive tests as suggested by Technicsplayer

Maybe there is something I don't understand as to how to overwrite the flash areas of custom memory,home page favourites and user midi settings-----presumably those memories can't clear because of the Tech to Midi crossover.

If there is anything also I could try lets know .


Dave L.

Hi Dave,

have you even checked if the update was 1.6 successfully?

Here the description, can be displayed as the display of the release.

First Step:

Announcement of the installed version:
1. Switch off the keyboard.
2. Press in the SOUND GROUP the keys [PIANO] - [GUITAR] - [MALLET & ORCH PERC] and hold this during the turning on low-spirited.
3. Then after the turning on you see on the right below in the display the version number.
4. If the version number is same or even higher, as the offered here, an update is not necessary!

Harry the K7 keyboard now states its 1.6
Upgraded from 1.4

Latest tests done today on our sick KN7000.
SAD to say no reversal of Midi and Tech modes.
KN7000 successfully upgrade to 1.6
Tests carried out 1 to 12 according to Service manual from Page 27.
Test reveil that the EEROM [ Flash Memory ] may be in trouble.
The originally supplied floppy [INITIAL DATA DISK ] when put in the k7 shows as MIDI when you load it.
Which means it can't correct to factory settings of the Panel Memory . Etc.

Also fingered mode not there when playing with the split Keyboard---- Only every second Panel memory working
Recorded songs all want to play at 300 speed .
Any other suggestions comments welcome especially how to clear the Flash Memory.
Anyone know where a Flash memory part can be purchased ?.
Thanks for those that have participated in this thread of more than 700 hits.
Dave L.

Another thought:
I was wondering whether your Initial Data Disk is corrupted? Have you got a friend who will let you try his/hers? If not, I will have a go at making a copy of my own Initial Data disk to send to you if you think it will help.

Audrey

Thanks Audrey for your latest thoughts--- obviously you are showing a friendly concern.
Actually I have 2 original 'Initial Data disks '

At the moment our thoughts are around the 'Flash Memory'
We have been able to get the part number from the Service manual.
Audrey, the parts addresses that you sent as an attachment have replied only this morning and they have the suspect part
Seems like you have to have floppies to reload the replaced Technics Floppy Memory according to the manual----may-be they come with the New Part -- still waiting for further confirmation as to Forum Brain Boxes .
Has any Forum Member ever replaced the Flash Memory
Part No RFKFXKN7000. AND ANY PROBLEMS WITH DOING THAT ?

Dave L.

LATEST THINKING on the Naughty KN 7000 from the sad owners,
This is our first ever experience of listing a question on this Technics Forum.
My wife and I thank all those that have dug deep in their thoughts and have willingly suggested different tests and suggestions.
1362 viewes in less than 5 weeks seems that there has been a lot of interest---- so maybe there will be some that have learnt something from this listing.
Many times I have told Technics users that you can't hurt a Technics product as you have the initialising system.
Well in the case of the Naughty KN7000 seems like there is no hope for the latest case of a death warrant being issued.
OK THIS IS THE LATEST.
We have been able to buy back another K7 we use to own.
The unfixable K7 will go to our olocal 12 year old Grandaugher that is learning the piano.
The Naughty KN7000 still will play as a straight sound like a piano or another instrument------anything using a rhythm is absolutely out of the question from the discording and loss of bodily functions.

Now that has to be a better solution than digging a hole or using it as a door step.

Perhaps Mr Technics [nee Panasonic ] will pay us a visit with a Brand new KN8000 one day. ----OH YEA ----
NOW this topic will go to the top of the list so we will look to see if anyone else is shedding a tear..

Dave and Viv L [ in New Zealand ]

Dave,

Have you ever asked a music / electronic store for a repair estimate? In my local area, for a small fee, a technician at a local repair shop will attempt, and almost always offer a solution to the problem.

I'm not that advanced technician guy, but to me it sounds like a flash memory burn out, and it may be repairable. That's just a guess, you need an expert to run physical tests to determine the exact cause of your problem.

In any case, nice to see someone can make some use of your "naughty 7000", and I suppose all Technics keyboards will eventually end up retiring to a similar fate, but for now, they just go on, and on, and on... Must have been built well.

Hi Larry,
Yes we have done what you suggested but its in the too hard Basket for the local organ repair man. since its more to do with the computer side.

My computer repair man and I were considering exchange suspect parts over on the 2 K7's to prove a point.
We don't want both keyboards faulty so my last email stated the best way to go for us at the moment

Actually a parts dept in the UK. said they had a new Flash Memory [$160 NZ ]--- the Service manual said that you need discs to reprogram the necessary info.Don't know if they are with the new part.

Seeing the problems seems to be varied we have gone for the easy way out as we don't know is a flash memory is to blame for all things that are incorrect.

ie. Midi and tech modes reversed
wants to play every recorded music at 300 speed
Vol for right sound 1 and 2 won't respond
APC light ON all the time and you can't select the Fingered mode
Panel momort jumps to every 2nd number.
Seems like no one else has heard of our problem.
Thanks anyway for showing an interest.
Dave L.

Hello again from the owner of the Naughty KN7000.
Come on TECHNICS buffs.
In 5 weeks there has been 1820 viewers with 26 replies.
A few more will make it 2000 and then NIGEL will put a flame icon to it.
I will add a further comment that I haven't already given.

Before the K7 misbehaved I was guilty of checking out some floppy discs that had KN7000 styles on them that came from a distant contact.--- Probably most of us have done that from time to time.
I have now heard from a friend in New Zealand that some years ago 2 owners of KN5000 [?]-- in a Keyboard Club-- had used and swapped a obvious suspect disc and both keyboards crashed.
I don't know to what degree BUT surely there are out there Technics users that have heard or experienced a simmilar fate
and how many discovered a remedy.
My wife and I are grateful for the helps so far.
We as owners are the sufferers, so lets keep this alive for a while longer, yet in the hope that it will be somehow a help or even warning to others.
I WILL REFRESH YOUR THOUGHTS AGAIN WITH SAY 6 NOW FAULTS.
[1] Midi and Tech Modes reversed.
[2] Won't select Fingered mode [ hence discords ]
[3] APC stays lit all the time.
[4] Wants to play all recorded songs at a 300 speed.
[5] Only every 2nd panel memory button works.
[6] Performance pad green light stays lit all the time.

Seems like the internal FLASH MEMORY has been the only suggested culprit from sme viewers.
Lets see how long it is before Nigel puts his 2000 Viewers flame to this post.

However the KN7000 can still be played perfectly as a straight PIANO.

Thanks again from Dave L.

Bet you can't remember which floppy discs that had KN7000 styles on them that came from a distant contact.--- you were last using before everything went wrong?

Thanks Roger for that suggestion,

That thought is really a long shot.
As the keyboard hasn't been used much in the last couple of months after I had a hand op. I can't be sure what day it faltered.
I was given several discs and they sure won't get in a keyboard again unless they are formated.

I presume once a floppy is formatted it is clear to re-use ?

I did have pleasure in destroying maybe the last disc I had put in the now presumably corrupt KN 7000 Instrument -----
I have however been able to re- purchase a K7 that we gave to our grandchildren and they now have our KN1000
At the moment our thinking is to let our faulty KN7000 go to our 12 year old local Grandaugher as she is starting to learn the piano----- It will play a single instrument OK as long as no rhymth is used.

Rog I will email you a photo of our set-up
Dave L.

Hi Dave,

I can not believe that a disk may damage the operating system of the Technics. I have never heard this in the last 25 years!

It is difficult to determine the error, if one has the KN 7000 is not directly in front of him.

You've successfully made the version 1.6. The version 1.6 will be shown to you on the screen?

You've made the big factory reset?:

You can also reset all the PERFORMANCE
items with the following procedure:
Turn off the power to this instrument once.
Then, while pressing the three lower left buttons
in the RHYTHM GROUP section (8 & 16 BEAT, ROCK & POP, BALLAD and JAZZ & SWING )
at the same time, turn the power on again.

You made the test: C # 3, D # 3 and C # 4 and found no errors?

What has not been done is the custom field that has not been touched by initializing.

You could even with the disk "INITIAL DATA DISK" initialize the custom field.

If this has not all been successful, the KN 7000 is a case for the service technician.

That sounds a good idea but it's a real weirdo - I guess nobody will ever get bto the bottom of it now...Rog

We got to the bottom of it 2 pages ago with the test I suggested, the internal flash memory is corrupted and needs pcb level fault finding or replacing, loading floppies has nothing to do with it.

My bad use of the english language Technicsplayer - what I meant was nobody in New Zealand is going to have the capability to sort the internal flash memory corruption out.

Hello Technics friends,

As owner of the naughty KN7000 I felt it fitting to again comment as there has been so much interest, so hope you viewers have picked up on some of the tests that have been suggested.

I am grateful for the willing suggestions that have been given over the last 2 months from those that know the innards better than some of us ..

As no repair technitian is prepared to have a go at fixing the major problem ---- I have decided to get another KN7000

No-- we haven't dug a hole for the Naughty KN7000--- BUT our local Grandaughter now has it at her home and my wife is giving her some initial Piano lessons

The Naughty K7 works fine on a straight sound ---- Piano , Organ ,Trumpet or whatever you choose---- but absolutely no good with using a rhythm that discords and wants to play at a speed of 300.

Even if you record a straight piece of music it plays back at 300 speed

Any other comments are welcome.

Dave L. [ New Zealand ]

Hello again Technics Fans,
Great to see 4500 views ---- Highest number of viewers in the last year to do with Technics Forum.
Surely someone has experienced our trouble on a KN7000
This note will bring the topic to the top of the Technics Forum
---so Dave and Viv will be looking for that miracle hope ----
Still waiting for Mr Technics to take pity and send us a KN8000
----- Thanks for all the replies we have had ------it has made us feel not alone even down under in New Zealand.

DAVE....

This popped into my head as I read this 4th page....

A picture of a finger twirling the tempo wheel way way too
fast... Then the rubberized band around the wheel breaking under the twirling stress.....

Frequently when these little pictures appear in my mind, they
are indicating a truth....

What have you got to loose by checking it out????

Elizabeth

Hello Friends
No-- the Naughty KN7000 major problems are still the same
I bought a No2-- K7 and now it has lost the touch sensitive function on Middle C----- Plays very loud only on that note on Piano etc sounds

Seems like both KN7000's will have to be partially dismantled by me and a computer wizz and see if we can make one keyboard out of two

Thanks for so many concerned K7 fans over the last year so any further suggestion to add to the 10800 already viewers with 36 reply's. Just watch this post in a few weeks time and I will keep you posted

Dave L.

Dave, I had the same problem about a year ago with the C above middle C. No one had an answer and I used an electronic cleaner all around B, C and C# to make sure with the cleaner. When I did this, I turned off the keyboard and after spraying, I pressed the keys rapidly to make sure the cleaner got in everywhere. I left the keyboard off for a good hour or two to make sure the cleaner had dried and I fixed the problem. Worth a try.

Mark

Thanks Mark for your comments
I am a bit dubious about this exercise that you found worked for you .

I have taken the top off the No 2 K7 and to get to removing the offending key seems to a be a bit advanced for me

However I have blown as much air around the complete offending Key area with high pressure compressed air But unfortunately no change

Sometimes I zero the touch sensitive to 0 and the k7 can be played OK
Unfortunately the initialising of any prerecorded Song the touch sensitive adjust things to initial setting of about 6

Today I checked what 4 shops that sell contact cleaner $14 to $40.
Are you able to tell me what brand of electrical spraying can you used ?. as there seems to be a variety of spray cleaners .

Thanks from Dave L

Hi Dave,

Do you have a Walmart near you? I bought a large can of cleaner for around $1.98. HOW CHEAP IS THAT!!! What I bought is the following:

CRC QD Electronic Cleaner. It is a spray and a generous amount of 11 oz. I think it is worth a try. It certainly didn't hurt my keyboard and I have not had any problem with the key playing loud by barely touching it. It responds, touch sensitive wise just like the rest of the keys. Good luck if you decide to try it.

Mark

Hi Mark,
Yesterday I gave up on further dismantling our No 2 K7000 as to remove the offending key seemed to be a bit complicated for me.

However I was able to see [with the top cover off] exactly where the key contacts were on the end white note

So today I did buy a electrical contact spray cleaner

I raised the keyboard up high at one end and then with the thin plastic tube from the spray canister I sprayed the cleaner down in the area where I knew the contacts were on the sides of the offending middle C note---- I then lifted the keyboard up at the other end and did the same spraying down where the contacts are even though you can't see them


Left the keyboard with no power attached for a couple of hours and tonight after tea I repowered the K7 ---initialised it--- and BRAVO the touch sensitive aspect is now working correctly

Thanks Mark for your support and hope this exercize helps others that have a similar problem

----The contact of the white keys is approx half way of the black notes.------

The other No 1. KN7000 that we bought new has been mothballed as the only suggestion we have had is that the internal Flash memory is corrupt---- I couldn't even see the component in question.

With a bit of help from Technics Fans all I can say is LONG LIVE TECHNICS

The Technics Synth Zone is a big help in time of need so thanks Nigel for your enthusiasm

Thanks from Dave L. [ in New Zealand ]

Glad my suggestion worked for you, Dave. Just think, had you tried my suggestion months ago all this would be behind you. (smile) I think all you needed to do was to spray a couple of notes on both sides of the C note and the note itself and it would have saved opening up the keyboard. Good luck in ever finding out the problem and fixing it on the other keyboard.

Mark