A MIC PREAMP?

I am experiencing a difference in volume when singing with a sequenced song compared to playing live and singing. Here lies the problem: The mic volume is not loud enough set to max for the APC/Sequencer volume set to max. I am able to adjust by keeping the mic volume set to max and dropping the APC/Sequencer volume a bit. Doing this, more Main Volume needs to be upped through the keyboard speakers and p.a. speakers. When I start to play live, the APC/Sequencer volume is bypassed to the Main Volume. By the keyboard doing this, the volume coming through the speakers is much louder when playing live. I think the only way to get around this is to keep the APC/Sequencer volume set to max and get, hopefully, a very small mic preamp to get more gain on the mic volume. Is this correct? I have never used any form of preamp. If there is a small unit that I can put the mic connection in and then the preamp cable out into the input for mic in the keyboard I would appreciate knowing. Does anyone know of a very small preamp to buy? I am not using any form of p.a. amplifier because my speakers are powered. All I am having to do is go from the outs of the keyboard into the inputs of the speakers for great sound.

Mark

http://www.zzounds.com/item--RLLMX56C

Thanks, Fran for posting the link. I must say that I am sort of uncertain about it because it shows no picture, no size... I have no idea what I would be buying. With several inputs and outputs, it might be sizable and I am looking for the smallest unit possible. I don't want to carry anymore than I have to. I am surprised that this company doesn't show a picture of it or at least, give the size of it.

http://www.directproaudio.com/product.cfm?directid=49161


This is the discontinued model I have..they are small enough to put in your shirt pocket..

Sure looks like a picture in that link to me!

Thanks, Fran for giving a general size. Thank you, Uncle Dave. I brought up the link again and this time, I saw the image. I am still surprised that they don't list the size of the unit. Fran, how much power does this increase the mic volume? Looking at this unit, I am assuming you would put the quarter inch plug in the mic input and from looking at the unit, Channel 2 would be the volume control. Going out of the unit would be a cable using a quarter inch plug with a quarter inch plug into the keyboard. Right? Also, is there any noise by the mic volume being increased into the keyboard? As I have stated, I have never used any device like this for gain of any type. Thanks.

Mark

Mark, You will need to be very careful when using a Mic Pre-amp into the KN's Mic input. You could end up overloading the Mic input circuit and causing distortion.

If you are using Panel Memories in your set-ups, you can set the 'On-screen' Sequencer/APC volume slider to a lower level and re-save all your Panel Memory settings. Leave the physical APC/Sequencer slider set to maximum. Using the Panel Memories to set the parameters during your performances, should correct the balance problem which you are experiencing.

Bill, you have come up with an excellent way to get around this problem!!! To begin with, I am not pleased with having to buy any extra gear to take to a gig and this preamp would be one. I appreciate your warning of an overload in the mic input circuitry. Unless I have misunderstood you, I think in my case, since I have to drop the volume of the APC/Sequencer for the mic to be loud enough set a max when playing a sequenced song, I would leave the physical APC/Sequencer set at the lower volume and change my Panel Memories for live playing by setting the On-Screen APC/Sequencer volume lower as well. I don’t see how I could keep the physical APC/Sequencer volume set to max because that is the problem of too much coming through for the mic volume. I hope I have made myself clear. I have never used the On-Screen APC/Sequencer volume. It is always set to 127 and I have always considered that is where it should be because the physical setting has always been set to max. Thanks, again for coming up with this possibility. I hope you will further comment if I am wrong about the settings.

Mark

Hi Mark,
No, set the physical APC/Sequencer slider to Maximum. Adjust the 'On-Screen' APC level to a suitable value for each of your Panel Memories and store this new setting in each of the Panel Memories used in your perfomance. Then as you step through the Panel memories during either Live Performance or Sequence, the APC volume will be automatically adjusted to your pre-set levels.
However, it is probable that when you initially load a sequence, that the 'On-Screen' APC setting will default to Maximum (127), but there is a way round this. When you have recorded your sequence and set the individual APC levels for the Panel memories, note which Panel Memory is used at the start of the sequence - let's say it's Panel memory A1. Press the following sequence of buttons : Program Menus > Sequencer > Record & Edit > Step Record > 6/CTL. You will see the Step Record screen with the White Square cursor at the beginning first measure. Now press the button of Panel Memory which is used at the start of your sequence (for example A1). You should hear a short 'Beep' which indicates that the selected Panel Memory will be selected at the start of the sequence. Press Program Menus to return to the Home screen and Re-Save your sequence to SD Card / Disk. After you have loaded the Sequence, make sure that you press 'Fill In/Sequencer Reset'.

There is an unfortunate side effect which occurs when using the Sequencer playback - If you are viewing the 'Sequencer Play' screen (to which the system defaults after loading a sequence) and then during the playback, you decide to change back to the 'Home', the On-Screen APC volume will increase to maximum (127) which could be embarrasing
To avoid this, if you prefer to view the 'Home' screen during playback, then after loading the sequencer file, press EXIT to select the 'Home' screen and then press 'Fill In/Sequencer Reset'. You will then see the APC volume adjust to the pre-set value in the first Panel Memory.

Note that the Physical APC/Sequencer slider operates differently, depending on whether or not you are using Sequencer Playback. If you are playing Live - ie Sequencer turned Off, the Physical APC/Sequencer is linked to the On-Screen APC level so there will be interaction between these two controls and also the Panel memories. The actual APC volume level will be determined by the Last of these three controls to be altered.


[This message has been edited by Bill Norrie (edited 08-01-2008).]

Hi, Bill –

I did some testing last night until it got too late to continue but everything you said is correct. I had no problem setting the changes in Panel Memories and filing them and they loaded the same way as filed. In other words, the APC “On-Screen” doesn’t default. A question – is the APC On-Screen set up exactly as the physical APC/Sequencer Volume? As you know, the On-Screen just shows APC. It could be because of not enough room to show Sequencer. This all sounds simple and easy but what I have run into is that this does not affect the Rt 1 and Rt 2 volumes. Dropping the On-Screen APC volume, the Rt 1 and Rt 2 tracks are way too loud and also have to be adjusted in every Panel Memory. It requires some work but I will get through it.

One other question – is there a very small compressor/limiter that the mic can be connected to and it go into the mic input in the keyboard? If so, is there any problem of it being an overload or whatever for the keyboard? I have already stated that I am not anxious to buy extra anything to take on a gig. I ask this because I have a very good mic that is directional. The old theory, the more directional the mic is, the more expensive it is. When singing, if you move away from it, even just a bit, the volume of the voice drops. A compressor/limiter solves this problem because it balances out soft sounds with controlling too loud sounds. I have a very fine large compressor/limiter that I have used for recording but I don’t want to consider it on a job.

Mark

As I said in the last paragraph above, the way the Physical APC/Sequencer and On-Screen APC volumes interact, depends on whether the Sequencer is selected or not.

The APC (Auto Play Chord) On-Screen control is just as its name suggests - it controls the level of all the parts in the Style ie Bass, ACP1 - ACP5 and drums. In other words, it can be considered as a Master control for all the parts in the Accompaniment Style only. It does NOT affect the other parts such as RT1, RT2, Left or Pads.

When playing without the Sequencer, the Physical APC/Sequencer control and the On-Screen APC control, are 'tied' together and again, each one acts as a Master volume control for all the parts in the Accompaniment Style only.

When using the Sequencer for playback, the two controls act independently - The On-Screen control only affects the parts in the Accompaniment Style, whilst the Physical APC/Sequencer control, affects the entire Sequencer volume level. This control also affects the Sequencer Output level to the LINE OUT sockets. However, as would be expected, it does not affect the Microphone output level to the LINE OUT sockets.

One other thing to note : If you are using a Sequence as a 'backing' but have turned off say RT1 and RT2, on the Sequencer Play screen, so that you can play the melody 'live', then reducing the Physical APC/Sequencer volume will not affect the volume level of the Right Hand voices. This also applies to the Left voice, if that is also turned off in the Sequencer Play screen. This of course is expected, since if these parts are turned off in the Sequencer screen, they are no longer regarded as part of the Sequencer.

As far as a small Microphone Compressor/Limiter is concerned, have a look here : http://www.zzounds.com/item--RLLCL151

Bill,

I have done some checking on the Rolls CL151 GLC Limiter/Compressor and found some negative reports. I am enclosing one. I have had problems trying to bring up other reviews. ZZSounds speaks of reviews but I was unable to bring any of them up. Anyway, here is what one owner had to say about it.

One Owner's Opinion
Feature:
This unit is built in a bomber case and has higher quality buttons, but inside is junk. There is also no jack for an external power supply

Value:
nice case and buttons, but otherwise a big waste of money

Sound:
Like the other reviewers, I found the sound quality poor, lots of pops, buzzes, and background noise, and loud speaker damaging pops when you hit the buttons.

The above does not mean that I won't eventually buy it but I certainly want to read other reviews. Also, I have found it as low as $78.00

Mark

On the website it says "...30-Day 100% Satisfaction Guarantee Applies On This Item - Buy it, and if it isn't just right for you, return it!" so I guess you've nothing to lose by trying it

I don't understand the comment that it doesn't have an external power jack! The illustration clearly shows that it does and the Spec. states "..Operates on the supplied AC adapter.."