Bill's anger

Bill --- So sad to pick up your recent e-mail, expressing your view of the active participation of all those on your mailing list. It sounds like a very sad indictment of many members.
Having regard to the fact that 'you' are the central and pivotal 'activist' working on our behalf, every mail sent in any direction, gives you work to do. I am not personally computer-knowledgeable enough, to know what sort of workload you have to deal with. But, is it possible, that people don't send e-mails because of loading you up with work. ? Just a thought. !
If, on the other hand, your main concern is the fact that not enough people are:-

(a) Sending in recorded songs.

or

(b) That not enough people are expressing what they feel about these songs, and/or, not showing any gratitude.
it's a different can of worms. !

I can fully appreciate how you feel, but, it has occured to me Bill, that there may be an aspect of the matter, which you 'might' have overlooked. !! Which is:-

That many of us who do receive e-mailed thanks and comments from others, immediately strike up an ongoing e-mail rapport with such people, 'WHICH YOU MIGHT NEVER GET TO HEAR OF'. !!! I have personally received many e-mails which come into this category, and I have little doubt that others do so.

As I see it, the expressed gratitude of people, is either posted onto the forum (in which case you know about it), or done privately, in which case you might not get to hear of it.

Nonetheless, I have little doubt that all memmbers will understand precisely why you feel as you do, and hopefully (for our sakes) the situation will improve, by virtue of increased 'consideration' for the efforts of others. -- NB:- having said all this, I personally have been over the moon with the amount of comment I've received. T'would be a crying shame if it all collapses. - Colin

I confess - I am one of those guilty of rarely offering my thanks directly to those who contribute songs for us. I don't suppose I've sent thanks to much more than half a dozen folk altho I have occaisionly voiced a general "thank you to all" on the forum, and I'll repeat that here. I've listened to all contributors and have both mentally thanked them for great performances, and at the same time cursed them for keeping me away from my keyboard!
I've also been a bit envious of the quality of the playing etc and felt a bit hesitant of sending in much of my work - but am working on preparing some easy recorded stuff and hope to put that out before too long.
I don't know why we are so niggardly in sending thanks - perhaps a bit of laziness, a bit of just not thinking that a "thank you" would be appreciated, perhaps even one of finding time. I dunno.
I agree with Frank Bez's comments - leave things as they are, hope that more of us remember our manners and pray that Bebop doesn't stop sending out all that great music.

Ogre

Hi Colin;

I to hope Bill does not stop sending out our songs for I feel this is the most enjoyable part of this forum.

I just finished listening to your 3 new songs and enjoyed them very much. I took the liberty of raising the volume of your vibes on "Tea For Two" and thought it really sounded better.
We learn so much from each other that to take that away would be very sad for this forum.

I personally do not care if no one ackowledges my songs. I am going to keep sending them out to Bill until he stops sending them to our 7000 players.

I have always felt that the heart of this forum is our music. Take it away and there will be an emptiness.

Alex

You know, having been on both sides of the fence, so to speak, I have mixed feelings about this topic like many others. I have made available to forum members 120+ songs over the last few years, and I haven't received that many replies, good or bad, for the work involved, but I won't quit trying until people email me to stop flogging a dead horse and quit with the music. I know my playing isn't that good, but still, with each song you get a free style to put into your library, so you don't even have to listen to the song to get the free style. A win - win situation, right? Once in a while I do get a nice email from someone that actually enjoyed my efforts, and believe me, that makes it all worthwhile!! If I can touch one heart, one soul, then the rewards are much greater than the work and I will carry a smile for days. You see, it isn't the amount of praise that counts, its the quality that makes all the difference. One nice email makes up for the hundred that didn't come in, and I treasure the contacts and friends I've make around the world through the Technics forums. Being a loner by nature, it really takes a lot for me to even write on this forum, let alone expose my lack of musical talent by sending in songs, so understand that every email I got for my efforts encouraged me to go one step more and send in another song. Also, like some of the others, I too, have been lax in sending out proper thanks to those who sent in songs. For this, I apologize to all concerned, for my laziness and lack of good manners. I have all the songs stacked in a folder on my computer and when I get spare time, I pull some out and pop them in the keyboard. I hope my tardiness won't discourage anyone from submitting new songs, or maybe, that one person that has been mulling over their first song for the forum. Don't worry, if I don't like your work, you'll never know, but I do appreciate your efforts and I know from experience how hard it was to send in the first file. When I listen to some of the great music that comes in from different musicians, I realize just how basic my music is, but I'll keep trying because the work isn't really work at all - more a labor of love. I just wish I could have had this keyboard 30 years ago!

Hi forumfriends,
my deep respect for those who takes an vulnarable attitude. That’s one of the great benefits of this forum. That’s why I feel ‘home’ in this forum. There is a great potency of wisdom in this forum available.
To my humble opinion we, as musicians, share more, much more than our songs! That is the feelings/passions we put in our playing : the styles, the sounds, the arrangements, the composition. Instrumental, without words, but … full of passion.
That is what I hear in music. That’s why I manytimes loves much more a song of a starting player because I sometimes miss those feelings in the song of an ‘over-skilled’ professional.
And further feelings are visible in the way we react in this forum: warm, kindly, with respect, helpful, giving disinterested energy, giving positive feedback AND the subject of this post. This make this forum so ‘special’.
I understand Bill’s anger more or less. It are emotions/passion what belongs to musicians, to people. To my opinion it is good to point at this item. Manytimes it gives a new impuls, in a moment of reflexion, on the things we are busy with. The persistent attention to decency, norms and values is an issue that is worldwide worth to maintain.
Speaking for myself; I much appreciate when people send me their gratitude. For that I agree with the fellow-members above, I cannot say it better. I don’t do things for receiving applause, for my profession or …. I am very glad with those few reactions. Besides: Bill told about 17.000 visitors, our mailbox would explode…
I hope, no I know, that Bill (and Nigel at the background) realize that the work and energy they put in this forum is appreciate very much. I respect Bill's persist in asking attention to ‘other’ values than sharing music. I wrote him, OK, go on: but think of your ‘bloodpressure’ .
Bill, Nigel and all forumfriends, thanks for the sharing of all your contributions AND your feelings.
With warm feelings and let your keyboard speak,
Cees


[This message has been edited by cees (edited 06-11-2003).]

ogre .. reading your post, I felt that it could have been written by me ... not only have I been remiss (on more than one occasion) in sending a "thank you", but I was also VERY hesitant about sending in any of my work ... however, I did eventually, and the response was great, which told me that I should be more responsive to others, and that none of us should hesitate share our talents, at whatever level, with others...
keep making beautiful music...
t.

Colin, Alex G., Bud, Cees,and Tony:
Very well put, gentlemen. you reflect my sentiments exactly.
I also believe that even though the majority of members may not verbally respond (for whatever reason), they feel the same way in their hearts.
So, hang in there everybody and keep those songs coming. YOU ARE APPRECIATED!
Walt

[This message has been edited by Walt Meyer (edited 06-11-2003).]

Nice to read such honest responses to my message. Even nicer to read all the many differing views on the subject. All have validity, and all without doubt, have a very admirable trait of honesty. How refreshing.

One thing is patently obvious. We all do what we do because of the love of music. In the process, we make friends. We learn from others, both musically and technically. And above all we learn, that people are basically kind. And have no wish to be inconsiderate to others. Even though our hectic and busy lives make it look that way at times. We do our best to be well-intentioned, and that is the essence. - Colin.

Colin,

You and others have hit the nail on the head. One cannot expect 100% response from our endeavors in life. My wife and I send Birthday and Aniversary greetings but do not always receive one..........but we keep sending.

Understand Bebops concern as a dedicated moderator and love you for all you have done for us.

Fran in Florida

To all my Forum Friends (and that includes everyone here!!:
I just posted this message in another thread, ("Touching Lives"), but I am taking the liberty of re-posting it here so it doesn't stray; if you have read it elswhere, please read it again (with the emoticons ) Maybe saying it TWICE isn't too bad of an idea at that!

Ted Rose

********************************************

ORIGINAL MESSAGE (minus emoticons):

I, too, was disturbed by BEBOP's comments about his dissatisfaction with the lack of personal and private e-mails that perhaps he feels each of us should send to all the wonderful musicians who contribute their songs to us all for our enjoyment, whenever we are sent a ZIP file or other joyous contribution. I must echo that sentiment, but then I think to myself, have I acknowledged all the great ZIP files that I have received? And I am embarrassed because I think I, too, am guilty of not doing so every time. So, I want to make this public statement of thanks to ALL the great guys and gals who have made my life so much richer by taking the time to share their work. And, BEBOP, and all the rest of you to whom I may owe an apology and a belated thank you, I hope that this PUBLIC response will indicate that I, among many others who are equally guilty, I'm sure, do indeed appreciate it all. Life has a habit--a bad habit --of slipping away and the older one gets the faster it seems to slip! So, BEBOP, be kind and know that negligence is not always a sign of non-appreciation, but just the result of too many things happening and too little time. Einstein was so right: time is relative! When I was a child, days sometimes seemed eternally long; now that I am "mature" even the years seem to fly at a too-rapid pace, not to mention the individual days that melt into fleeting obscurity in an instant. So, again, in public, and shouting it aloud to ALL of you, my dear, dear Forum friends: THANK YOU! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!!!

Ted Rose


[This message has been edited by Ted Rose (edited 06-12-2003).]

.... Quote from Ted Rose:
"Life has a habit--a bad habit --of slipping away and the older one gets the faster it seems to slip! So, BEBOP, be kind and know that negligence is not always a sign of non-appreciation, but just the result of too many things happening and too little time."

So true, Ted, and while BeBop's comments are taken to heart, I realized just last night that one of the reasons I have failed to acknowledge another's work is that often I am on the home PC late at night... when BeBop sends a song file I usually download it for playing at some future time .... Since I would prefer to make some comment about a particular song or songs, I wait until I've heard the songs before responding ... of course then, when I listen to it, I'm away from the computer and either don't take the time, it's not convenient, or simply forget to send thanks ... Of course this does not excuse me from acknowledging the individual's work, but I find that sometimes life gets in the way of living ....
So again I send a collective THANK YOU, along with the promise to work at not slighting my fellow musicians when I receive their labors of love... As a contributer who received some very favorable comments, I know how good that makes one feel and we should all share in that experience...
Keep making beautiful music ... and passing it on...
t.

I have something to add to the "Thank you" issue concerning song sharing.
There are some different ways to look at it.
One way is to see it as an opportunity to the composers to share/show off/ their talent. So that all their work won't go as invane having no one to hear it. Looking at it this way, should one thank the composer? Or should the composer thank the listeners, just like an artist thanks the croud for being there to listen?
Another way to look at it is the benefit the downloader has of maybe getting a new style with the song or just adding more songs to his collection. And the enjoyment he or she has listening to thier KN play new songs etc...
Then the appreciation would depend on how much happiness it brought to ones self.If the downloading person is not into the song or that kind of music, he will not be so greatful. If he likes it a lot, he will be more greatful. If the work is good or bad etc...
Myself, I am into harder rock then anything I see here. I am not into big band, orch. or well anything heard on the disks. I listen to them out of respect and couriousity. Saying thank you is nice. But I dont happen to feel greatful for the song files here because I don't like the kind of music. I guess I am off the mailing list now for not showing enough appreciation and That's okay cuz it is not something I cared about. That is my situation. I think that thanking everyone all the time is crap. We are all grown men here. We don't need a pat on the back every time we do something good. Do you send songs in for the pat on the back or support? Or do you do it as a favor to others? Or just so you have others to share your work with? What I would expect if I sent in a song is - If they liked the sound and thought it was great work, then say so. And if they did not care much for it and wasn't impressed by it, then not to say anything. I would not want to be patronized and/or bullshitted with false praise. And so, I do to others as I would have done to me.
Tony
P.S.
I havent been around for a long while, because I have found this forum to be of little to no use to me being that I am not into the same music and styles. I have always thanked those who answered my questions though!

Hi Bud,

You are so right when you said one nice email makes it all worth while like when my good friend Larry Hawks tells me his Dad is a big fan of mine and looks forward to my songs.
It does not get better than that.

You are also right when you said that the recording of songs and sending them to Bill whos tireless efforts gets them out to our forum members is a labor of love.

I do not know if I replied to you on your Patriotic songs but I enjoyed them very much.
I loved the marches.
Your styles are an added bonus.

Bud many thanks for sharing and keepem coming.
Alex

Hi to all
I recently got back from a 6 week holiday to find the email section full of files sent in by you folks (Wow you must all have gone into overdrive ) plus Bill's expression of unhappiness at the lack of acknowledgement from most of us.Sorry people, although I have done a few indivual thanks in the past I realise it's not much compared with the time some of you spend compiling the files.Unfortunately, being late onto this thread it means that most of the good excuses have already been used up, so could you just add "that's what I was going to say" from me to most of the messages so far.
I have done a bit of catching up in the past couple of days, but to anyone I've missed "more apologies and many thanks for all the ideas that flow through this site."
Also like to add my thanks to Bill and Nigel for making it all possible.
Regards to all
Eddie

Can't say much more than that!!!!
AMEN --
Walt

Bebop's anger worked! Have just been inundated (well nearly) with thank you messages for the 8 songs Bill recently sent out for me, so, I'm sitting at the keyboard of the pc with rosy cheeks, a swollen head and a fancy to go on a world concert tour. Think I'll go and lie down till it passes.
But seriously - your comments most appreciated. (Thinks - if we're all now sending "thank you" messages AND copying them to Bebop he's going to need a new computer before too long - and a few aspirins!

Ogre

Sparky came up with an interesting comment when he talked about what to do when you get music files that you really don't care for. Do you thank the person for sending songs you don't want to listen to, or thank them for the time they've put into the production, or do you just keep quiet and hope that enough folks send in emails so you won't have to and maybe escape unnoticed? What a dilema. I'm afraid that most of us will fall into the last catagory, and I do it myself. But then, I also do like Tony does, and file the songs away until I get time to listen to them. Usually, by that time I can't remember who sent what, or when. Another dilema! My instinctive response is to go bury my head in the sand somewhere and leave the contributor wondering where everyone went because there are probably many more like me. I guess it's just a part of human nature, so I won't take it personal if you won't. It's too bad we don't have this huge site where everyone can send in their songs and music for anyone to download, no matter which model of Technics they have. Then we would only be responsible to email and thank those artists we downloaded. I would like to have the freedom to pick and choose, but that isn't an option at this time, and I don't want to be dropped from the list and maybe miss out on something that might move me....like the ragtime music sent in by Tom Cornish! I had a great time listening to your music, Tom and I would like to hear more, too. It's the style my grandmother used to play quite often, when she wasn't playing gospel, and I grew to love it. Brought back memories, you betcha!! Those are the triggers that make certain songs mean more that others, and it helps make the whole realm of music more enjoyable. And, guess who is the biggest factor in all of this....everyone here! What a great family to belong to. Thank you one and all!