KN7000 Report

Posted by: Bill Norrie

KN7000 Report - 07/17/02 01:57 PM

I've just returned from a short holiday in Scotland and it is my understanding that the report which I managed to email to Bill Forrest, at his request, has only been sent out to basically the 20 for 1 contributers. It was certainly not my intention to restrict 'publication' and I had no objection to it being included on this forum. Maybe, because I did not specifically state that it should be posted here as well, there has been a misunderstanding. If I had been able to get access earlier, perhaps the problem would not have arisen.
I note that our friend Derek Ladkin has already posted his recollections of the event and he seems to have covered it very well.
However, I have included a copy of the email which I managed to send to Bebop, thanks to the good nature of the person whose phone line I briefly 'borrowed'


Bill Forrest (Bebop) has asked me to write a report on my visit to the launch of the new keyboard. I was not really prepared for this and did not take any notes at the time, so all the following is written from memory. Being an old codger now, the little grey cells don't seem to function as well as they used to, but for what it is worth, here are my recollections of the event. I'm writing this while spending a few days on holiday in Scotland so it won't be posted until later this week.

The Technics presentation took place at the Heritage Motor centre, near Warwick on 13th July 2002.
There were two sessions - one at 10am and one at 2pm. I attended the morning session and managed to meet up and have a chat with Derek Ladkin, another member of the SZ forum.

We were informed that the KN7000 will be available in UK, in August and that the price will be 2100 which, at current exchange, rates is about US$3260 and about 3290 Euro

When the demo was completed, the KN6000 was moved out to the foyer area and the newly appointed Technics 'Guru', Chris Woodhead, demonstrated the SD memory card functions and networking capabilities. I did not get a chance to have a 'Hands On' session - there was quite a crowd of fans around the keyboard and after about 30 minutes, it was whipped away to get it set up in the demo hall, for the afternoon session - shame!!

All the sounds have been re-sampled and of course new ones added. The piano sound were particularly good and great new guitar sounds. There are many new organ sounds, including Wurlitzer and Lowrey and a new feature which mimics the organ Tabs, on the large central colour display (same as KN6xxx)

There are lots of new and updated Styles, the ones which particularly appealed to me were the George Shearing and Glenn Miller backings. Some other Big Band and Latin styles were superb and some great Intros and Endings. There is also good news about Styles from the previous KNs. They will soon be available to download from the new Technics web site and 'Plug In' directly from your PC to the KN7000 via the USB port - no more messing about with floppy transfer. I understand they will be available free of charge. However, the floppy disc drive is still built in to the KN7000. Further expansion is possible due to provision of no less than 4 expansion slots. I understand that these slots are compatible with the current range of KN6xxx EW... expansion cards and a further four cards are planned for early release - one of which will be available when the keyboard is released.
The Sound Controller seems to have disappeared - I don't think it was very popular. The panel memories are now grouped in a circular configuration at the right side of the lift-up panel with the 'Set' button in the middle of the circle. As I mentioned, I did not have a chance to get 'Hands On' but the general panel layout certainly seemed to be player friendly.
The SD memory card really is the size of a postage stamp! and the KN7000 is supplied with an 8 Megabyte card. Not very large but a reasonable starting point. It's still a good alternative for Floppies and the dreaded High Cost hard drive. The card plugs into a small protected slot, just above the right hand end of the keys area. In the same area, the card read/write controls are located and both the card slot and the controls are accessible when the lid is closed or open. If the card is large enough, full CD quality sound can be stored on it and used to play back just like a CD or cassette player. This could be used, for example, to play some background music, during a player's 'Beer break' at a gig. I understand from comments made by the Technics staff, that the SD version of all the memory cards available, is fast becoming the most popular type. Cards up to 512 Mb being currently available, and up to 4Gb planned for the near future. The KN7000 is supplied with a USB linked SD card reader, as a separate item, which of course can be used for data transfer to and from the card, directly to PC - assuming it is fitted with a USB port. All necessary software for the networking operations, is also supplied.
A totally new facility for training, has been incorporated. This allows a player to practise all the scales, major and minor, with appropriate elementary accompaniment backing. The actual notation appears on the KN7000 display, with a 'Bouncing Ball' type pointer moving along the bars. This feature should relieve some of the boredom, usually associated with scales practice.
Another new feature, is the ability to download real audio at CD quality and use this as a backing track and then play your own melody line. This means that you can download a Karaoke type track to PC, transfer this to the KN7000, and then play along with Real musicians and save the result to the SD card.
I also understand that real audio, from the Mic input on the keyboard, can be added to a sequence - I don't fancy listening to my singing! There is also a facility to connect an external video monitor which basically repeats the data on the KN7000 display.
During the demonstration, the sound was of course played through a large PA system rather than the KN7000's own speakers. However, we did hear a short example of the keyboard's own sound, when it was being demonstrated in the foyer. My impression was that the totally new speaker system was at least as good as the KN6xxx. It was difficult to hear properly, since there were people playing on two PR pianos in close proximity to the KN7000.
The KN7000 does not come with a stand, as the KN6000 did, but I was informed that it will fit on to the KN6000 stand.
My only regret is that I could not have spent more time at the venue and maybe been able to get some 'Hands-On' time. My round trip was 400 miles and I had to get back home to do a few things, before setting off again for Scotland.
I hope this report has been of some use - I'm sure I've forgotten to mention some things but if anyone reading this has a particular question, either myself or maybe Derek will try to answer it, if we can remember. For anyone who is unaware, Alec Pagida will be doing a full report in the August issue of the Technote magazine 'TechPlus'

Posted by: AlexGreen

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/17/02 02:28 PM


Great Job.

Many Thanks
Posted by: technicsplayer

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/17/02 03:21 PM

the big secret is revealed at last, thanks Bill. As I thought you would have had no intention of restricting your recollections on the forum and we understand exactly why it was not posted, since you were actually asked to write it specifically for a reason.

To put things in perspective the 8 MB card will hold around 16 retail type technote floppy disks with new styles and song sequences, or more style and setup disks if you selectively save. Or 2 or 3 mp3 songs to play along with, slightly more if you encode at a lower quality. The average owner with a small collection of disks may find the supplied card fine. Others of us may need to buy more or bigger cards. Or you can just overwrite the card as many times as you like from your archive on the laptop or pc with the card reader or software direct link.

If I may just be allowed to add, I think the training programs are built into the PR804 piano. The 7000 should be able to load future release scores type software into the screen, but maybe not with the bouncing ball feature on the 804.
Posted by: Bob Hendershot

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/17/02 03:44 PM

Thank you Bill. An excellent report. And, your memory is obviously much better than mine. . . I will be looking forward to the release of detailed specs. Maybe Alec's pending article will cover some of the technical details that I am looking for. I'll just have to wait a few more weeks.

Oops. . . I meant to use a thumbs up symbol and I see that I used a thumbs down. I'll chalk that up to another senior moment. My appologies. Don't know how to change it.

[This message has been edited by Bob Hendershot (edited 07-17-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Bob Hendershot (edited 07-17-2002).]
Posted by: Bill Norrie

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/17/02 03:59 PM

Thanks for putting me right Alec, about the Training programs - memory overload - of course the feature was on the Pianos. What was that you were saying Bob??
Apologies for misleading you folks!

[This message has been edited by Bill Norrie (edited 07-17-2002).]
Posted by: Marilyn Boissoneault

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/17/02 04:10 PM

Thanks for your report and for posting it on the Forum here. Sounds like a great keyboard, I am looking forward to seeing one but I imagine it's going to be a long wait to see one here in the USA.

Posted by: technicsplayer

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/17/02 04:26 PM

Don't be silly Bill, , there are no apologies needed. You were asked to write after the fact not expecting having to remember anything at the time, so it is entirely understandable and would be exactly the same with any one of us. I'm positive everyone else is really pleased to be able to read your extensive and well written impressions.
Posted by: Scottyee

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/17/02 04:59 PM

Bill, thanks for your terrific report. I'm glad to hear that Technics is continueing its grand tradition of bringing the best jazz styles (imho) of any arranger brand out there, and trust (hopefully) that the KN7000, like the KN6500/6000/5000 'already' do , support (in both full & split keyboard modes) the legendary Bill Evans A&B rootless chord voicings jazz pianists (around the world) play. This feature alone makes the Technics KN keyboards (imho) a true standout ABOVE all other arrangers on the market, especially for the pro jazz style player.

Being able to download styles from your PC via USB to/from the KN7000 is also nice. How convenient.

The acoustic piano sound is the most important sound for me on an arranger. I'm looking forward to hearing how the sound has been 'improved' over the already excellent sounding piano of the KN6500. Longer sample loop and/or higher sampling rate maybe?

Bill, Derek, (or others): Can someone please tell me what the Sound Controler (which is eliminated on the KN7000) does? I don't remember using it when I owned my KN5000, so I guess I probably won't miss it on the KN7000 either , but still, now that you mention it here, you got me curious what its function is

The other 'new' KN7000 feature which really interests me, because I'm a singer is the ability to record your voice along a midi sequence. What format does it record your voice in? WAV, MP3, or? How many tracks of audio does the KN7000 support? A real cool idea might be to pre-record backup vocals (response portion of a call-response type thing ) to a song. Then when you perform the song (along with the sequence), you can have back up vocals come in as a delayed 'response' to your lead vocals, which is not possible to achieve with a vocal harmonizer. I'm really anxious to hear more about the the KN7000's audio recording feature possibilities. I assume the recorded audio is stored on the SD Memory card?

BTW, on the subject of vocal harmonizers: Does the KN7000 include one? If so, I hope that it's a HUGE improvement over the cheap sounding one included in the KN6000/6500.

My apologies for asking so many questions, but as I hear more about the features of the KN7000, I get more excited about the what this board has to offer. I'm really looking forward now to reading Alec's detailed review of the KN7000 (in August).


Posted by: technicsplayer

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/17/02 05:19 PM

the sound controller was not on the 5000.
I thought it was quite good.
You could program different combinations and programmable max travel levels of effects independantly in x and y directions, eg pan, filter, reverb, chorus, brightness, dsp and thus adjust different levels of these functions by manipulation at an angle from the vertical or horizontal. Because of the position, it was possible to do this at the same time as using the bend and modulation wheels while playing right hand. It was used to good effect on the WSA synth.

I don't think many owners used it, so they left it out this time... a shame. Maybe people complained because they shifted the ball accidentaly, the sound changed, and they did not know why? Like dynamic accompaniment before, a nice function left off through I guess complaints from people who did not like it? A reset button could take you back to default sound instantly irrespective of where the ball position was.
Posted by: Scottyee

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/17/02 06:20 PM

Originally posted by technicsplayer:
the sound controller was not on the 5000.

Ahhhhh . . . at least I don't have to feel stupid now for possibly having overlooked this feature on the beloved KN5000 which I thought I knew so well both 'inside & out'.

Alec , thanks for your explanation of the 'sound controler'. Sounds like a cool feature. The feature that's always intrigued me, though unfortunately I never had the opportunity to try it cuz I've never owned an arranger that had it is the dynamic arranger. Oh well. . . .
Posted by: dlstarry

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/17/02 06:40 PM

HI: What is that ball above F#4 I thought that
was the sound controler?
And what is the round ball with the 3 round
buttons in it far right bottom side ?
I looking at the KN7000.
Thank you
Posted by: Scottyee

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/17/02 07:25 PM

Hi Denny,

If you mean (F#4), the F# that's one octave below the top F# on the keyboard, then THAT's the tempo wheel. Don't know what the one with 3 balls inside is for Anyone else know?

Posted by: dlstarry

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/17/02 07:47 PM

HI: Scott
Thank You for the quick answer !!!!
My goodness I thought that that was the
sound Controler ball, because that is what
they looked like on the KN6000/6500.
Must of had a bunch of those balls left over
& found they could use them for tempo control
Still would like to know what the other one
Oops I had another look at the side view &
I guess it does look like the same style
tempo wheel as they had. SORRY
Still would like to know what the other
one is
[This message has been edited by dlstarry (edited 07-17-2002).]
Posted by: technicsplayer

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/18/02 01:52 AM

the 3 buttons are just the main customisation features arranged together.

Dynamic accompaniment was rather good, you had 2 half fills that were triggered by left hand pressure or right hand fast playing. These would sometimes spring up in the accompaniment just as you hammered at a climactic bit of the song. The effect while playing was much better than my attempt to describe it, and it really made the backing interesting since was used sparingly in addition to the normal fills, variations etc.

Again, there were a lot of complaints that nothing ever happened, what is it?, I can't hear it, etc so it was dropped I think just to save the same hassle on the next board.

I would like to see programmable, editable half fills like this available from composer with programmable velocity switch,and maybe right hand note speed detection, relative to tempo?
Posted by: tony mads usa

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/18/02 05:43 AM

I too miss the dynamic accomp. .... as Alec has explained, it would react to your playing as a 'live' drummer might, say during a jazz solo if you went from playing 8th notes to 16th notes, it would just 'kick the rhythm up a notch'.... it was a cool feature .....
Scott ... the more I see and read about the kn7, the more excited I get also ... started to 'break ground' about it with my wife last night .... but the reaction was 'what about the kn1000 and the Rhodes that are doing nothing but collecting dust' ... so I guess I'm going to have to get rid of some hardware first ...... .... the vocal record feature could be great if it works as you suggested, and could be used as a call-response feature, or even as back-up vocals ......

[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 07-18-2002).]
Posted by: Bill Norrie

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/18/02 11:41 AM

One thing I forgot to mention in my report - I had quite a chat with Phil Leader and the Japanese Gentleman from Technics, Gerry O'Hara (I think). I suggested that a useful feature, which I have been asking for, for some time now, would be an automatic Ritardando, to use at the end of a tune. I know that this function can be realised using the Tempo wheel, but if both hands are 'busy'... I also realise that panel memories could be configured with reducing tempo but if the tune setup uses quite a few panel memories with different voicing then there may not be sufficient left to achieve this. The effect could be similar to the Fade Out function with the ability to set the number of bars over which the Tempo slowed and the end Tempo. It would be useful to have this controllable by footswitch as well as possibly a button on the panel, similar again to the Fade Out function.
The suggestion was well received by both and they assured me that it would definitely be seriously considered. Although it is obviously too late to incorporate this feature on the KN7000, it was thought by both of them, that it may be possible to have a software upgrade to allow the Fade Out to have a dual role option. I believe some other manufacturer's keyboards have this facility - does anyone know ??
Does anyone else consider this a worthwhile facility?
Remember, some of the Technics guys DO visit this forum


[This message has been edited by Bill Norrie (edited 07-18-2002).]
Posted by: technicsplayer

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/18/02 02:18 PM

certainly, yamaha have a rit with a second press of the ending button. I think I said a long time ago, maybe with the 9000 comparison review?, that other manufacturers had copied so many technics features, if I were technics I would suffer no embarrassment at copying this one
Posted by: Walter McLaren

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/18/02 02:41 PM

support (in both full & split keyboard modes) the legendary Bill Evans A&B rootless chord voicings jazz pianists (around the world) play.

Hi Scott,
What about a brief rundown on this chording, I have never heard of it, although my knowledge is very limited. Thanks. Walter.
Posted by: tony mads usa

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/18/02 04:13 PM

YES.. YES 7000 TIMES YES !!!!! to the desire for a retard feature .... while I like Alec's idea (from a yammie??) of it being activated by a second push of the ending button, I would take it as an option on the fade out.....
Posted by: Scottyee

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/18/02 04:48 PM

I've really grown to appreciate and use the ritard feature 'alot' when I perform on the PSR2000. I really HOPE that Technics will follow suit with such a 'useful' feature.

The 'other' thing I encourage Technics to adapt (from Yamaha) is 'integrating' the 'fill-in' button with each of the variation buttons so you can have an associated fill automataically occur by just pressing ONE of the variation buttons itself. This (to me) is a far better approach than having to press the fill-in button and then the variation button. I realize that Technics has a special 'fill to', both (up or down) to the variation adjacent, but many times I want to skip from variation 4 to 2 or 1 to 4, and this 'fill to' function won't work for this situation.

The great thing about all this is that as manufacterers continue to refine features, we as arranger players will reap the rewards of coming closer to owning the PERFECT arranger keyboard.

Posted by: Scottyee

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/18/02 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Walter McLaren:
Hi Scott, What about a brief rundown on this chording. Thanks. Walter.

Hi Walt,

Brief?! Well, here's at least a link to a 'brief' description of the rootless chord voicings played by jazz keyboard players.

Now for the not so brief part:

These keyboard chord voicings include the 3rd and 7th of a chord, but leave out the root. The reason jazz players prefer leaving out the root when comping, is because the bass player is 'already' laying down the foundataion (root) of the chord in his bass line patterns. If the keyboard player includes the root in his comping chords as well, it creates a less jazzy sound, as both the bass & piano player would essentially be 'doubling the root', over emphasizing the root tonality, which is not typically desirable in straight ahead jazz styles played by jazz keyboardists from Bill Evans to Diana Krall.

Because of certain limitations of arrangers in general, the 'rootless' chord voicings recognized by the Technics KN keyboards are actually a 'slight variation' from the actual rootless voicings I learned from my experience in jazz education , but they are still quite appropriate when you want to sound like an authentic live jazz keyboard player comping in a jazz combo setting, with the auto accompaniment playing the bass player & drum parts.Playing 'rootless' chords gives the music a more 'open' sound which is the trademark of straight ahead jazz. Most jazz tunes are based on the II-V7-I chord progression, so here are some of the rootless voicings which the KN keyboards recognizes. I encourage everyone (especially people who like to play jazz styles) to try them out and memorize these II-V-I chord progressions as it involves very little finger movement (smooth voice leading) between the chords. Hope some of you will write back and let me know what you think, and if you find these chords useful in your playing. I'm confident it will expand your arranger keyboard playing possibilities and provide a more authentic jazzier sound as well. - Scott

Bill Evans: A Type IIm9-V13-I69 Chord Voicings
(both split & full keyboard modes):

Cm7(9): (Eb-Bb-D)
Dbm7(9): (E-B-Eb)
Dm7(9): (F-C-E)
Ebm7(9): (Gb-Db-F)
Em7(9): (G-D-F#)
Fm7(9): (Ab-Eb-G)
F#m7(9): (A-E-G#)
Gm7(9): (Bb-F-A)
Abm7(9): B-Gb-Bb)
Am7(9): (C-G-B)
Bbm7(9): (Db-Ab-C)
Bm7(9): (D-A-C#)

C13: (Bb-E-A)
C#13: (B-F-A#)
D13: (C-F#-B)
Eb13: (Db-G-C)
E13: (D-G#-C#)
F13: (Eb-A-D)
F#13: (E-A#-D#)
G13: (F-B-E)
Ab13: (Gb-C-F)
A13: (G-C#-F#)
Bb13: (Ab-D-G)
B13: (A-D#-G#)

C69: (E-A-D)
Db69: (F-Bb-Eb)
D69: (F#-B-E)
Eb69: (G-C-F)
E69: (G#-C#-F#)
F69: (A-D-G)
F#69: (A#-D#-G#)
G69: (B-E-A)
Ab69: (C-F-Bb)
A69: (C#-F#-B)
Bb69: (D-G-C)
B69: (D#-G#-C#)

B Type IIm7-V13-Imaj7 Chord Voicings
(both split & full keyboard modes):

Cm7: (Bb-C-Eb-G)
Dbm7: (B-Db-E-Ab)
Dm7: (C-D-F-A)
Ebm7: (Db-Eb-Gb-Bb)
Em7: (D-E-G-B)
Fm7: (Eb-F-Ab-C)
F#m7: (E-F#-A-C#)
Gm7: (F-G-Bb-D)
Abm7: (Gb-Ab-B-Eb)
Am7: (G-A-C-E)
Bbm7: (Ab-Bb-Db-F)
Bm7: (A-B-D-F#)

C13: (E-A-Bb-D)
C#13: (F-A#-B-D#)
D13: (F#-B-C-E)
Eb13: (G-C-Db-F)
E13: (G#-C#-D-F#)
F13: (A-D-Eb-G)
F#13: (A#-D#-E-G#)
G13: (B-E-F-A)
Ab13: (C-F-Gb-Bb)
A13: (C#-F#-G-B)
Bb13: (D-G-Ab-C)
B13: (D#-G#-A-C#)

Cmaj7: (B-C-E-G)
Dbmaj7: (C-Db-F-Ab)
Dmaj7: (C#-D-F#-A)
Ebmaj7: (D-Eb-G-Bb)
Emaj7: (D#-E-G#-B)
Fmaj7: (E-F-A-C)
F#maj7: (F-F#-A#-C#)
Gmaj7: (F#-G-B-D)
Abmaj7: (G-Ab-C-Eb)
Amaj7: (G#-A-C#-E)
Bbmaj7: (A-Bb-D-F)
Bmaj7: (A#-B-D#-F#)

3 note Dominant Rootless Chords
(both split & full keboard modes):

C7(9): (E-Bb-D)
C#7(9): (F-B-D#)
D7(9): (F#-C-E)
Eb7(9): (G-Db-F)
E7(9): (G#-D-F#)
F7(9): (A-Eb-G)
F#7(9): (Bb-E-G#)
G7(9): (B-F-A)
Ab7(9): (C-Gb-Bb)
A7(9): (C#-G-B)
Bb7(9): (D-Ab-C)
B7(9): (D#-A-C#)

C13: (Bb-D-E-A)
C#13: (B-D#-F-A#)
D13: (C-E-F#-B)
Eb13: (Db-F-G-C)
E13: (D-F#-G#-C#)
F13: (Eb-G-A-D)
F#13: (E-G#-A#-D#)
G13: (F-A-B-E)
Ab13: (Gb-Bb-C-F)
A13: (G-B-C#-F#)
Bb13: (Ab-C-D-G)
B13: (A-C#-D#-G#)

C7: (Bb-E-G)
C#7: (B-F-G#)
D7: (C-F#-A)
Eb7: (Db-G-Bb)
E7: (D-G#-B)
F7: (Eb-A-C)
F#7: (E-A#-C#)
G7: (F-B-D)
Ab7: (Gb-C-Eb)
A7: (G-C#-E)
Bb7: (Ab-D-F)
B7: (A-D#-F#)

Two Handed Open Voicing Chords (great for coming jazz blues)
(full keyboard mode ONLY):

Chord Name (lt hand) (rt hand)
C13: (Bb-E-A) (D-G-C)
C#13: (B-F-A#) (D#-G#-C#)
D13: (C-F#-B) (E-A-D)
Eb13: (Db-G-C) (F-Bb-Eb)
E13: (D-G#-C#) (F#-B-E)
F13: (Eb-A-D) (G-C-F)
F#13: (E-A#-D#) (G#-C#-F#)
G13: (F-B-E) (A-D-G)
Ab13: (Gb-C-F) (Bb-Eb-Ab)
A13: (G-C#-F#) (B-E-A)
Bb13: (Ab-D-G) (C-F-Bb)
B13: (A-D#-G#) (C#-F#-B)

C7(9): (E-Bb-D) (G-C)
C#7(9): (F-B-D#) (G#-C#)
D7(9): (F#-C-E) (A-D)
Eb7(9): (G-Db-F) (Bb-Eb)
E7(9): (G#-D-F#) (B-E)
F7(9): (A-Eb-G) (C-F)
F#7(9): (Bb-E-G#) (C#-F#)
G7(9): (B-F-A) (D-G)
Ab7(9): (C-Gb-Bb) (Eb-Ab)
A7(9): (C#-G-B) (E-A)
Bb7(9): (D-Ab-C) (F-Bb)
B7(9): (D#-A-C#) (F#-B)

Posted by: TomTomSF

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/18/02 09:33 PM

All the keyboard makers copy & borrow from each other. My Roland has the Dynamic Accomp feature. And also, the Ritard tempo feature. In the Roland, you can specify the % of slow down from the original tempo over what number of measures. Even my older Roland E-96 could do both of these.
Still, I can't wait to see the new KN7000. But I'm really excited about Yamaha's new Tyros, too!

Tom G.

[This message has been edited by TomTomSF (edited 07-18-2002).]
Posted by: Dutch player

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/19/02 12:54 AM

I think it's really a pity that they removed the Sound Controller from the new KB. I think it will be the most important reason not to upgrade to the KN7000. I have come to use this feature a lot while playing live with my band. It creates a great sound when used properly, especially while playing (sort of) chemical beat, or more electronic oriented music. During the entire song your sound can be different! It's so easy to put a lot more feeling into the music this way. I really cannot understand why on earth technics dropped this feature. While other KB manufacturers put so much effort in creating new possibilities to change/control the sounds realtime. I thought technics got it right at this point since options of other manufacturers don't appeal to me that much (Blessing the audiance while using the D-Beam of Roland )
So it's really a drawback that it is left of on the KN7000. Or are there any other ways to change/control the sound realtime? I hope there is...
Posted by: dlstarry

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/19/02 09:55 AM

HI: Is there a way to covert other brand styles to the KN7000 ?
Mainly Yamaha STY files to KN7000.
I hope so because I couldn't imagine going back to just the
few hundred onboard styles & having to buy new styles,
When I have thousands of Styles converted to Yamaha already.

If it is possible is it easy to do, or a complicated procedure ?
Thank You for any help you can give me.
The KN7000 looks nice.
Posted by: technicsplayer

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/19/02 10:04 AM

try Gunnar Johnny. He has tons of conversions to 5000 format, and these should load into the 7k. Probably the 3000 and 2000 pages too. Like all conversions you may have to tweak them yourself to personal taste, they won't come out as good as the presets, but can easily be improved.
Posted by: dlstarry

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/19/02 10:50 AM

HI: technicsplayer
Thank You for your reply, but I was wondering if the KN7000
comes with a program to convert Yamaha STY files to
Technics KN7000.
I can't remember but I think the KN5000 came with something
like this.
Thanks Again
Posted by: technicsplayer

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/19/02 01:26 PM

no official information yet. There is a style conversion disk supplied with 6k that does various Roland, Solton, Korg, Gem, old Technics except Yamaha. There was an inexpensive upgrade disk for the 6k that included Yamaha and a few other new models. I talked to the software creator at Frankfurt and he said the 7k would come supplied with this new including Yamaha disk. But as I say, no official info or confirmation, so we have to see what turns up.
Posted by: dlstarry

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/19/02 04:09 PM

HI: technicsplayer
Thank You for the info I hope this disk is
supplied with the KN7000.
I might be interested in one if it is.
PS: Is it easy to convert styles with this
disk ?
I never tried it on my KN5000
Posted by: technicsplayer

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/20/02 02:24 AM

easy? - very.
long-winded? - somewhat.
you can save lots of time with the EMC software program, but then that costs, the disk comes free with the keyboard. The EMC is great if you have thousands of conversions to do. But Gunnar, and others like Bud Whipple here may have done a few for you already? The style converter disk is a nice no-cost plus if you want your favourites from some other previous keyboard carried over. But remember the tweaking. They come out good, but not perfect. You need to balance, add DSP, maybe change a voice or drum kit here and there to get something that sounds comparable to the built in presets, it's like this for any conversion.
Posted by: dlstarry

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/20/02 04:30 PM

HI: technicsplayer
EMC won't convert to KN6000/6500 or 7000
will it ?
Posted by: technicsplayer

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/20/02 05:26 PM

no, at the moment to 5k only, which gets you close enough since you can load into 6k/7k. But I strongly suspect that the style convert disk uses the same, or extremely similar software module as EMC, i.e. it converts to 5k format which is then loaded into the keyboard memory as 6k (we shall have to see what happens on 7k).
We have been waiting for a possible 6k format EMC version for a while now, but there are difficulties decoding the compression used.
Posted by: Scottyee

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/20/02 06:08 PM

Originally posted by technicsplayer:
We have been waiting for a possible 6k format EMC version for a while now, but there are difficulties decoding the compression used.

Hi Alec. As an EMC 'StyleWorks Universal' owner, I had contacted Klaus Grosser (software programmer for EMC StyleWorks) quite a while back, re: KN6000 format conversion support, and he informed me then that his EMC program was actually 'already capable' of supporting conversion to KN6000 format, but that the 'issue' holding him back from releasing the KN6000 supported version, was that Technics had not granted EMC the rights to implement it yet. Alec, after reading your posting, I'm now confused. Could I have possibly mis-undertood what Klaus Grosser told me originally? - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 07-20-2002).]
Posted by: technicsplayer

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/21/02 03:57 AM

I talked at length about this subject with Klaus at Frankfurt and he actually asked me to send him some files which might help him with the technical problem. As I understood there is both a commercial and a technical side to the reason. I don't know how much progress has been made on the technical side very recently, but I am hoping that the release of the 7k, making the 6k the previous model, so to speak, may assist in smoothing the commercial side. If the 7k format is very similar to 6k format, there may still be commercial problems, I have no inside knowledge. Nevertheless I hope that Klaus can update his extremely clever and useful software soon, Scott, because it is a very good product.

- (the nearest smilie I could find to "hopeful")
Posted by: dlstarry

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/21/02 12:30 PM

HI: technicsplayer
Thank You for the info, I think I understand now.
If I have allot of styles to convert (which I do) it
would be best to use EMC to convert to KN5000,
then use the disk supplied with KN7000 to change
from 5000 to 7000.
Or maybe I wouldn't even need the disk to load
5000 styles into the 7000.
Posted by: technicsplayer

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/21/02 02:32 PM

that's it, 5000 format will load in direct
Posted by: dlstarry

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/21/02 06:38 PM

HI: technicsplayer
Thank You very much
Posted by: Scottyee

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/21/02 08:20 PM

Alec (Technicsplayer): It's great to hear that the KN7000 will read & load KN5000 format styles in 'directly'. This was the answer I've been hoping to hear for a LONG time. I just hope they'll sound (on the KN7000) fairly close to the way they orginally sounded on the KN5000.

I have LOTS of custom KN5000 styles which were originally stored on my KN5000's hard drive (AE5000) and subsequently backed up to CD (using Keysoft Service's TechManager software). I assume all I'll need to do is copy the files from the CD to a SD Memory Card and then just insert the SD memory card into the KN7000 and then all my KN5000 styles will be available in the KN7000 for direct loading, right?

Will the KN7000 be able to recognize 'all' Technics KN5000 format file extensions? If not, which ones?

.CMP (composer style pattern)
.LSW (current panel memory)
.PMT (panel memory - 10 banks - 8 memories)
.SQT (sequencer file: 10 songs)
.TM (sound memory)
.MSP (manual sequence pads: 12 banks of 6)

In addition to the above Technics file extensions, Tech Manager also adds a .ttx file extension for lyrics support. Will the KN7000 be able to recognize .txx files too?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer my above questions. - Scott
Posted by: technicsplayer

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/22/02 07:45 AM

we need to be careful of our terminology here to avoid confusions arising. When you say custom, maybe you mean composers tweaked to your own setting? When I describe custom below I am talking about the 20 patterns in the style custom group. My custom is thus the *.rcm file.

All the files you list should load OK, if the 7k follows 6k experience, we need to try a lot of files to find out first. At least the actual important pattern data from composer and sequencer will be intact, even if you have to revoice or re-effect occasionally.

The 6k could not load 5k custom patterns. You had to save all your 5k custom patterns back out as 5k composers to be able to get everything into the 6k. I don't know for sure, but it seems likely the 7k may be the same, but we have to wait and see...

see also because it might also become relevant in some circumstances.
Posted by: Scottyee

Re: KN7000 Report - 07/22/02 08:50 AM

Hi Alec: oops sorry for the confusion. As you guessed, when I was refering to custom styles, I was refering to 'tweaked & self created' composer styles (.CMP files), not the 20 styles in the custom group (.RCM files).

Good to hear you say that the KN7000 will load, not only the KN5000 style patterns (.CMP files) , but also the all important panel memory setups (.PMT files).