CTL Changes in Keyboards

Posted by: lahawk

CTL Changes in Keyboards - 07/23/03 10:30 AM

Hello to All,

Sometimes songs easy recorded on one keyboard (example KN3000) do not sound very well on an upward keyboard (example KN7000)

I know it takes some editing to change the sound on the 7000 so that it "fits", and that reducing the octave sometimes helps.

I have a few questions someone may be able to help with. When you edit KN3000 sounds (example..could be a 2000, 5000, etc.)on the KN7000, it seems a lot of the sounds recorded on the 3000 (or other) and played on the 7000 sound at a much higher pitch ...I call it a "tin can" sound. When I reduce the octave -1 the sound is a little better. I guess what I'm trying to get at is ..What is the best way to edit KN3000 (or other) sounds in a song, and then save the results on the KN7000 so that it os much more pleasing to the ear?

Anybody have tips on this ? Should I change the octave on the 7000 keyboard button, or use sound edit? Will this change the octave for the whole song, or justa particular sound. Would it be easier to just choose another sound ? Then when I have done all this, can I save the results ? Can this be done in Step Record CTL edit ?

PS...Sometimes the 7000 utilizes a style, that is totally different then the recorded 3000 style, and I would like to make and save changes on the 7000 on that also. How would you do that. As you can tell, I do some sound editing, but never complete songs from one keyboard to another.

sorry so many questions

Thanks for any advise you give,
Larry Hawk
Posted by: rikkisbears

Re: CTL Changes in Keyboards - 07/23/03 01:36 PM

Hi Larry,
doubt whether I can help, but are you referring to the melody parts of your song
( L&R hand) or the style part??

best wishes
Posted by: bruno123

Re: CTL Changes in Keyboards - 07/23/03 02:32 PM

Larry, If I have it correctly,one of your questions is "How do I lower a instrument sound one octave lower"

If you have recorded a sequence and you do not like the sound of the instrument because it is to high, nad you want to lower it there are few things I must know.
1-Have you used the panel memory when you recorded the sequence?
2-Are you using Extended Panel memory.
(Hold the set button in on the panel memory and you will see your options)

If you have used the panel memory in your sequence---fine.
If not:
1-Go to the beginning of the sequence.
2-press the set button and make sure you have selected extended memory.
3-Now make sure you are in "A" of the 13 memory banks.
4-Turn off the sequence. (Top right)
5-Press program menus
6-Press sound
7-Press part setting.
8-Now select the instrument you want to lower, use the buttons left top.
9-KEY SHIFT left top, lower 12 (one octave) or 24 (two octaves)
10-Press program menus to exit

Important part
1-Hold the set button down and press #1 panel memory.
2-Press program menus
3-press sequence
4-Press record and edit
5-Press step time
6-CTL (Control)
7-You are now in your first measure of your sequence---Press #1 panel memory of bank "A"

Now your sequence will remember to lower the instrument 1 or 2 octaves.

If you have saved other panel memories in the sequence that include this instrument, thay must also have the lowered octive shift.

Wow, that came off the top of my head, it hurts.
I hope I got this right, if not we'll go again.

John C.
Posted by: larry gosmeyer

Re: CTL Changes in Keyboards - 07/23/03 04:54 PM

Hi Larry H,

The way I re work a song recorded on the KN3000 for playing on the Kn7000 is this:

I record whatever rhythm patterns I used with the KN3000 into the Memory of the KN3000 and then save it on a floppy.

I then play the song on the KN7000 and change the sounds to whatever I feel fits and sounds the way I want it to.

This could be picking different instruments, changing octaves, or anything else I feel helps. I know that if I recorded a track with technichord on the KN3000 it will only play on the KN7000 as a single note. I then re-record the passage on the KN7000 using the technichord feature if that is my current desire.

I then save the song on the IN7000 so that it will play as a KN7 song recording.

Hope this helps at least a little.

Larry G
Posted by: lahawk

Re: CTL Changes in Keyboards - 07/23/03 09:18 PM

Rikki..I was refering to both the style and the sounds...sometimes the change is dramatic. When I record I use both R1 AND R2, and when played on a 7000, it sounds...well.. pretty bad.

bruno...So every time the sequenced song switches instruments, I have to alter the sound or Octave ? Do I have to edit the same sound through out the song? If I edit a Sax in Measure 10, then come back to Sax in measure 35, do I have to edit it again ?

Larry G...Now I know why your 3000 songs sound good on the 7000. Thanks for the tip.

I have also learned from Walt via email that I should always save the style from the composer to Memory A on the 3000


Set up and save all of the MSA variations, the voices, technichord, ETC that you are going to use, in the Panel Memories A-1, A-2, ETC. Be sure that each panel memory uses the style from Memory A and not from the KN3000 composer.

The mistake I may have been making, I was recording from Panel Memory Sound only and using the 3000 composer rather then using the Extended Panel memory . (I think)

I have the best way...announce before hand... CAUTION ! WARNING !
"These sequenced Songs are made for the KN3000 only. If you wish to play them on a keyboard other then the KN3000, you may and probably should edit the sounds and/or styles"...

This way less work for me !

Larry Hawk
Posted by: bruno123

Re: CTL Changes in Keyboards - 07/24/03 03:18 AM

So every time the sequenced song switches instruments, I have to alter the sound or Octave ? Do I have to edit the same sound through out the song? If I edit a Sax in Measure 10, then come back to Sax in measure 35, do I have to edit it again ?

Larry, There are two methods.
1-Go to the track that has the instrument you wish to change and change the octave. And you may have to change it again during the sequence.
2-The best way (I feel) is to use the panel memory. If you recorded using the panel memory, just change each panel memory on the new recording. If you did not use the panel memories, use them on the new recordings, it makes future changes easy.

It all depends on how you recorded the original sequence. Where did make your changes. I know I had to lower some instruments one octave to have a good sound when working on an older sequences.

Larry, here's the best part; Two things happen when you redo a sequence.
1-You get to understand/learn you new keyboard--another learning curve, with each curve you get better and better at creating.
2-Your redo of the old sequence, leaves you with a much better sounding sequence. You have grown!!

Only my thoughts, Have a good day, John C.
Posted by: Douglas Dean

Re: CTL Changes in Keyboards - 07/24/03 06:56 AM

John C, that's the kind of stuff I like to hear. A good positive response. Turn work into an opportunity to be creative and become a pleasure instead of a chore. And Larry Hawk some of those questions you ask lead to bringing out other great minds in response. What a great way to learn. Ruthie just came out of the kitchen and asked what I was doing. From experience I knew she had no interest in what I was doing but that she had in mind something she wanted me to do. Just her way of setting me up. Anyway, I told her how great you guys were in sharing and how much knowledge you all had about music and our keyboards. Backing away a foot or so and looking at me she mumbled 'and I had to marry you' as she turned while redoing her apron strings and walked back into the kitchen. Guess she forgot what she had in mind for me to do.

This morning at Grandpa Doug's house.

[This message has been edited by Douglas Dean (edited 07-24-2003).]
Posted by: rikkisbears

Re: CTL Changes in Keyboards - 07/24/03 02:35 PM

Hi Larry,
I'm probably a bit off topic here, but I must admit I don't sequence a great deal, I normally prefer play in arranger mode ( saves me having to listen how badly I still play haahaa). Anyway,
I have technote disks kn2,3,5 that I've bought over the years, and I've noticed quite a few of them don't sound the way they should on the kn7 due to the voices.
I decided to actually slowly fix the styles as I require them, by replacing sounds, and if neccessary edit certain ones( I have quite a few Americana disks & they had some really unusual sound edits included in their styles).
Another thing I hadn't thought of doing was checking the pitch point of the style ( till a recent post cropped up on the forum).

Maybe if you actually fixed the styles that your songs are using, you could kill 2 birds with 1 stone ie you'd have a useable style in your collection plus you're halfway there with your song. All that would be left to fix up would be L&R hand parts.

Sounds great in theory, hopefully works in practice (haahaa) one of these days I'll work out how to use those smiley icons.

best wishes
Posted by: rikkisbears

Re: CTL Changes in Keyboards - 07/24/03 07:26 PM

Hi Larry
me again. Just had a thought.
the songs you are referring to, were they actually created on a kn3 or kn5 using internal styles.
If so, have you actually tried converting the .cst's from the website into a style, and replacing the old style in the song with the .cst equivalent or a .cst conversion style.

Somewhere in the back of my tiny brain I had the impression that the .cst's on the kn site had been tweaked to work on the kn7. Maybe replacing would give you a better result.

Just a thought.

best wishes
Posted by: lahawk

Re: CTL Changes in Keyboards - 07/24/03 09:56 PM

Hi All,

The songs I was referring to were sequenced from internal styles on the KN3. The sounds were my own edited sounds from various sources, saved to panel memories. I have learned that the entire MSA should be saved to panel memory, so that other boards have an easier time reading what was intended.

Yes I agree, the great part of editing is the final result and saying .."Did I do That" ?

It is a hobby. Hobbies should be fun..however, Ive been doing a lot of talking to myself lately..I'm starting to worry...

Seriously, I appreciate all your help on this topic. I now have a clearer understanding on editing. I'm impressed by the knowledge you all bring.

Larry Hawk

PS...Doug, it takes years of learning the skill of "Changing the Subject" whenever your spouse has a chore lined up. You not only need to reconize the look on her face that she indeeds wants some type of work done, you must learn to change the subject at the precise time. There is nothing more satisfying then to hear her mumble.."There was a reason I wanted to talk to you..but for some reason I can't remember what it was."
Doug, it sounds to me, you have mastered that skill. Congradulations.