KN2600 to Tyros MIDI question.

Hello

I am considering getting a KN2600 while they are available.

BTW all KN7000's are sold out in the US. The only ones left are the ones the dealers may have left.

I have a Tyros, which I love. I also always liked the Technics styles, especially for jazz, combo, swing, standards.

I understand that I can hook up the two using MIDI, and use the Tyros as my main KB playing all left hand styles on the Tyros including the KN2600's styles being keyed from my Tyros, AND while using the Technics styles I can use the sounds of the Tyros for the styles rather than the 2600's?

Does anyone know about this procedure, and how it can be done?

I understand if it can be done that the actual settings must be made on the Techics (in this case). I would hope if this is true that it could be saved into some kind of memory button so I could quickly switch between Tyros styles and Technics styles.

This sounds like a good idea if it really will work. I never would have bought a KN7000 because of the weight. Although I have not heard a 2600 live I think it would be safe to assume that the tone is not going to come close to my Tyros.

I understand that all the styles for the KN2000 on up are available for the KN2600. I think this would be a great addition to my setup.

BTW, I am now with a different music dealer who was a Technics dealer. When I called the Technics company in Illinois, they agreed with me that they are suprized that another company has not bought the rights to the Technics line.

We'll have to wait and see. I really believe it will happen, unless they want too much money for it.

Best
Scott

Hi Scott,
Thinking of you this past week, hope all is well.
Our wonderful minds will always search for new problems to solve--and that's why I have a KN7 and a Tyros.
I relate this as having a wife and a girlfriend--and loving them both. It feels good at first, but the complicatinos outweighs the benfites.
Years ago I used a Midi keyboard to control two sound modules, a bass moduel, and a drum machine. It sounded good, but was to complicated to use on a job.

I thought of using both my keyboards on the job, but I know it would take away from my performance.

What I would do;
1-convert the Technics styles to Yamaha.
2-Add a good sound moduel, the best that I could afford.
3-Add a volume pedal to control the moduel, adding different sounds to the Tyros.
You play a good drum sound moduel against the Tyros drums--no contest

IMHO---The Tyros runs short on some of the instrument sounds, a moduel would close that gap. My friend had an old portable Wersi organ. He added a Roland sound canvas and a drum moduel--The sound was fantastic.

The main reason I perfer my KN7 is the instrument sounds. If I added a sound moduel, hmmmm, that might just do it.

In general, the sounds of the two instruments do not blend, they seem to be coming from different places. They designed the Yamaha trumpet to fit in with the Yamaha styles. I do not feel the style would sound as good with a Technics trumpet.

Scott, I recorded
"I can't get started" on both keyboards, same arrangment--there is a difference!! I'll get the recording to you.

Have a special day, John C.

Hi John

Good to hear from you. I have been incredibily busy. Changing jobs among others.

I have some Technics styles I downloaded from the internet. They are all bad. Lots of clashing sounds and stuff. I don't think they convert well. If they did, or if the new conversions are improved , then I would consider that, otherwise, I avoid most external styles. I really like the styles and sounds of the Tyros. I also like the Technics styles that I have heard. I am sure the later ones sound better than what I have heard so far.

I think the drums are fine on the Tyros. My dad and I were both drummers for what that's worth. I'm probably more inclined to sound like the big organs that I play rather than something else.

Actually, modules don't really interest me. I really want to travel light, but if I could get the set-up I'm talking about to work the way I would like, I would break my rule and add another piece of equipment.

Quote:[Scott, I recorded
"I can't get started" on both keyboards, same arrangment--there is a difference!! I'll get the recording to you.]

Ah,...Bunny Berigan's theme song. One of the all time great trumpet players. He was one of my hero's and probably influenced my trumpet playing (the kind you blow) more than anyone else's. I've got a huge collection of his recordings, including the old 78's which I collect when I can find anything swing oriented. I also attended Bunny Berigan Days in Fox Lake, Wisconsin, not too far from where I lived. Fox Lake was his home town.

I will look forward to hearing your recording John.

Thanx for your input. It's always good hearing from you.

Best
Scott

Scott, The KN7 has the ability to change a style into a midi style. It puts each part of the style on a different track. You have to adjust the instruments a bit. I also did this with my Cakewalk/Sonar program. Hmmm??

Yes, the drums on the Tyros are good, the ones on the Rolands drum sound moduel are better. The comparison was only to make a point, not to substitute drums sounds. Every keyboard has a group of great instrument sounds, can you imagine using some of those sounds when you are playing your Tyros.
Yes I agree, the less the better on the job. I sit at home and get all these great ideas. Then I put then together and begin to prepare for the job. I think it happens when I carry all the stuff to my car and back out again when I get to the job--or--when I begin to use the new ideas on the job. The confusion is normally enough to clam my genius down.

I find the pads very helpful. I have recorded a bass drum and snare on pad #1. A ride cymbal on all four beats on pad #2. A guitar or piano playing chords on all four beats on #3. And some "do0" "bobs" on pad #4.
On #5 pad, (there are six on the Kn7), I recorded a 12 bar blues sequence. I can use this sequence with any style. On pad #6, I recorded a IIm7 G7 progression.

With these pads I can vari the style and releive the boredom. Imagine playing a rock or jazz tune and adding the bass and snare for a lift. Or, pushing pad #5 and the keyboard plays the the blue progression leaving both your hands free to play the melody. You can put a 12 bar blues progression in almost any upbeat song, even in "In the Mood" Glenn Miller.

By the look of some of my posts, I'm begining to feel I talk a lot, oh well.

Today is going to be a great day,
I decided, John C.

Question; Can you record a chord progression on a pad in the Tyros, one that repeats until you press stop?

Hi Scot
I use exactly the set-up you are contemplating. There are no problems to speak of. I downloaded all my KN7000 registrations and styles from the SD card onto the 2600. They sound almost identical.
The Tyros midi out is set to Right hand on Channel 1 and Left hand to Channel 2. The 2600 midi in is set to the same channels with the "chord" setting also on channel 2. These settings can then be stored as "user" in the 2600 and will be easily accessible.
I have the split point on the 2600 set on C1 which enables the whole 2600 keyboard to be used for right hand if required whilst the tyros will control style and left-hand registration on the 2600.
I also have an on-off switch inserted into the midi cable and velcro-ed under the left-hand position on the Tyros. This enables me to blend the 2600 voices and/or styles with those of the Tyros as desired.
There are a few other refinements that you may wish to make but these two boards make a great system and sooooooooooo little weight!!
Hope this helps.....Trevor

Good Info Trevor,
I have saved your post and when time permits I will try it with my KN7000 and the Yamaha PSR9000.
I used to do all and nothing but Midi but have now forgot half or more of what I ever knew, even though I went to a specialized college to learn it all for 2 years.
OLD AGE SUX, BIG TIME
Thanks to you friend
Bebop

Hi Trevor

OK, now you've got me really interested.

Just to make sure we understand each other, since I don't have the 2600 to test it out, are you saying that I can do everthing I was asking including while using the 2600 rhythm styles that I can be hearing the Tyros sounds being used within the 2600 styles rather than using the 2600 sounds in those different accompaniment parts in those styles?

If this is really the case, then, I think this may be one more option for the KN7000 owners that want to have a backup instrument, presuming the 2600 sounds are not as good as say the KN7000, Tyros, or whatever. Then one could have all there favorite Technics styles sounding better than just using the 2600 sounds. This may be very interesting, because you know how technology keeps improving? I remember starting in about 1976 how I kept marvelling at how great the instruments sounded wondering how they could ever improve the sound, only to find with each new advance in the instruments has only improved year after year.

That would mean it would be possible to have those Technics styles sounding better than they do now as things progress. Even though I'm sure there are current Technics owners that may like the sound of the 7000 so much that it may be hard to conceive.

Now that I think of it, I suppose that if a person did not want to travel with two keyboards, that a good sound module hooked up to the 2600 could also do the trick.

Best
Scott

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 02-07-2004).]

It is important to remember if you are going from a Kn7 to a KN2600 with a style it will work. You will lose some quility, but it is acceptable. If you are going from a KN7 to another make keyboard, it is not the same. Whoever created the style for the Kn used the KN instruments. He worked on the style and made adjustments in many areas until he felt it was good. Given a set of instruments from another make keyboard the original creater of the style would begin to adjust and recreate. Hence big job and a possibility of not being acceptable.

If you have the time and you wish to put in the effort, it's a nice thing to do.
IMHO--I use the keyboard's styles, adjust them to fit your selected song, then play and add whatever your talent allows. I feel this adds to the player's ability to play the song and increase his musicianship. Over a period of time all the songs you play will sound better. Old kind of thinking--No, just trying to stay focused in this day of advanced technology. You know after using the automatic dialer on my phone I have forgotten all my important phone numbers. If I try to make a call from another phone, I'm at a loss. There is always something gained and something lost. Your choice.

I will use a style which I have purchased or downloaded if it has the little added effects that I need for a song. Example-God Bless the U.S.A.

For me, it's keep it simple, learn all about the keyboard and improve my playing. I learned to play full chords with the left hand because I knew it would improve my performance, I would sound better with another live sound. There are times when I sing with the style and my left hand feeding chords as a guitar or piano player would.
When I play the Lord's Prayer--no rhythm, style or cmposer--just strings with my left hand, an expression pedal and whatever I'm feeling (instrument) with mt right hand.

Wow, I really get into this stuff. I even forgot what the original question. I remember it was Scott, but what did he want anyway. ha ha ha ha

It's only me, John C.

Hey, Scott, I there is always creating a Yamaha Tyros sequence, then recording it on to a Sd card (audio) playable in the Kn2600.

John C.

Hi Scott,

If you just want to use the 2600 styles with Tyros voices all you need do is set up a midi registration on the SD card so that it does not receive any right hand channel information. You can then silence the left-hand voice on the 2600 which will leave the style being played by your left hand with whatever voice you have set up on the Tyros.
The Technics keyboards allow more flexibility in separating left-hand voices from styles than the Yamaha boards. With Technics you can set up a bank of registrations with a different left-hand voice for each one without the style changing each time and without having to use annoying "Freeze" buttons. For example if you have a bank of 8 big band registrations and you want some of them to have a brass left hand and some to have saxes or a piano, with Technics you can but with Tyros you can't: Or, if you can I aint found the way to do it.
As I said earlier the most important tool in running these keyboards together, in my opinion, is to have a readily accessible switch in the midi lead so that you can operate them independently as required.
Take care.. Trevor

Hi Bebop
Just noticed your post. I used to use a 9000pro to control a KN1500 with no problems so you should not have any with the 9000 and KN7000.
At one time a few years ago I had up to 6 keyboards midi'ed together without any tuition and only one or two of them blew up !! It almost certainly accounts for my rapidly declining mental faculties but at least now I don't have to arrive at gigs 3 hours before I'm due to start.

All the best
Trevor

Hi Trevor

I've read your answers several times, and being a complete novice at this midi game, I am thinking we may be talking about the left hand voice in a different way.

I take it that you are referring to my being able to use a Tyros sound that I can hold or sustain with the backround going. I think I know that can be done.

But, I am not clear on the part I am really asking which is probably not the clearest way to word it.

In other words I want to switch back and forth or mix styles from the two keyboards like you do, BUT most importantly to me, when I play the left hand built in styles from the 2600 while keying them from the Tyros, I want to use, let's say for example,the following sounds from the Tyros: the Standard Drum Kit sound, the Acoustic Bass sound, the Mellow Grand Piano, Jazz Guitar, Sweet Tenor sax and Sweet Trumpet sounds playing each of those sounds within the appropriate parts of the Technics accompaniment parts as automatically programmed on the 2600.

So it's about the 2600 styles being keyed from the Tyros, BUT ALL of the individual voices in the 2600 sounding several different Tyros voices all at the same time according to there indiviual programming within each specific style. (whew, kind of wordy questions. I'll have to check tomorrow to see if I really knew what I said here.)

Excuse my lack of understanding here. I suspect, with the next reply we'll both be sure we know what I am trying to ask. You may already know this, but for me this is kind of like learning a new language.

As far as the MIDI cord with an on/off switch, is that something that is available on the market or did you have to have that custom made?

Thank you again for sharing your knowledge with a MIDI illiterate.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 02-07-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 02-07-2004).]

Hi John

You certainly have a lot of good ideas about keyboard playing. I really appreciate your thoughts.

As far as recording a number of measures in the Multi-Pad, I am not sure. I think I saw some answers on threads concerning that at SVPworld.com , psrtutorials.com , and/or the Yahoo Yamaha PSR Styles forum.

I think it can be done. I hardly mess with the Multi-Pads, but when things settle down, it sounds like it is worth it for me to investigate using some of your ideas. I really like your idea there, it would really be like having your own custom version of backround add-ons to suit your own tast and needs. I never thought about putting in as much as a 12 bar blues progression in, but I can see a lot of possibilities here.

Thanx for the input John.

Best
Scott

Hi John

If you go to any of those sites I mentioned including the General Arranger forum here on Synthzone, (a lot of Yamaha talk there), and type Multi Pads into search, I think you will find an understandable answer to your question here.

Scott

Hi again Scott,

I think what you are trying to say is that you wish to apply Tyros voices within the Technics styles either on top of or instead of the inbuilt Technics voices. I am afraid that I can't answer that one as it is not something I have ever tried to do.
I have only had the current keyboards since December and have not yet got further than linking them and combining the registration voices for fuller sounds. I think you would need to talk to a real expert like Alex to find whether what you wish to do is possible.
I do not think that you can buy a midi lead with an integral switch. I have simply broken into the lead, cut the wire connecting the two centre pins and inserted an extra piece of cable passing through a simple on-off switch. That does the trick.

All the best
Trevor