Synth vs. workstation keyboards

I'm a newbie and still don't know what the difference between a synth and a workstation. All I know is mostly the workstations keyboards cost more than synth.
Would anyone tell me what the difference in details please? Thanks in advance!

Ok, here goes...

a workstation contains lots of onboard sounds which attempt to replicate the sounds from *real* musical instruments. If you select, say, an accordion sound on a workstation, then when you hit a key on the keyboard you'll be triggering an audio sample taken from a real accordion.

Workstations also usually have onboard sequencers and onboard floppy disc drives for recording and playing music which has been saved in midi format. The downside to workstations is that there's not much room for tweaking the sounds and you're pretty much stuck with the factory presets.

A workstation would be a better choice for someone who was trying to compose (for example) some classical music.

Synths on the other hand are more geared towards people who want to create their own unique (freaky!) sounds. You can normally tell the difference between a synth and a workstation at a glance, because synths usually have lots of knobs and/or sliders for tweaking the sounds.

Also, the way in which synths produce sounds is different from with a workstation. Instead of using sounds which have been sampled from real instruments, synthesizers use difference methods for creating sounds such as producing a sawtooth wav and adding filter sweeps and so on. Although both synths and workstations have presets which attempt to replicate the sounds of real instruments... it's generally agreed that workstations sound more realistic because of their totally different method of sound production.

Both (modern) synths and workstations can be programmed to respond to midi data.

The only other thing I can think of that's worth mentioning is that the difference between synths and workstations seems to be becoming more blurred every year. Powerful instruments like the Korg Triton for example are often described as "workstation synthesizers" because they can pretty much do all the things a workstation can do, as well as doing all the things a synthesizer can do.

In short... if you wanna compose traditional sounding music (pianos, guitars, harps, flutes etc), then you want to lean towards the side of a workstation.

If however, you wanna produce Madonnas next album, then you should go for a synth.

-Equalizer

A workstation has, as a minimum, a sequencer and built-in fx.

A synth doesn't nessessarily have anything extra, which can be a very good thing, depending on the studio you already have.

-tek

Thank you all for your replies! That clears the cloud!!!

To me a synthesizer keyboard is a keyboard that can manipulate or combine waves or tones to generate or alter a sound. This can be done starting with a straight tone or starting with a "sampled" tone to mold it into the desire result. There are big differences in the capabilities of different synthesizers but they have at least some capability to change the sound, not just effects. There is a combination of sampled sounds and synthesized sounds on a keyboard. Sampled sounds require vast amounts of memory. To reduce the memory required use a few sampled notes on the scale with spaces in between. The notes in between the sampled notes are synthesized to create those notes. Kurzweil (one of the synths I have) has a "sampled" piano that takes very little memory. They also have a sampled piano that virtually every note was sampled. That piano requires 64 mg of memory. There are also pianos in between those 2 extremes, requiring different amounts of memory. This is determined by how many notes are sampled. Real instruments and all sorts of noises can be sampled.

Work stations are not that clearly defined. I see them as a keyboard that fits with your other equipment, computer, mixer or whatever to achieve the end product that you are wanting. Whether using samples, synthesized sounds or a combination is not the determining factor. "Workstation" is probably an advertising term.


[This message has been edited by bvan (edited 11-21-2002).]

Workstation is not an advertising term. Before the first workstations appeared, people had to buy a sequencer and fx units separately. Then Korg, Ensoniq and others started slapping on the sequencer and give the sounds some basic digital fx. I know because I used to own one of the first generation (digital) workstations, the Ensoniq SQ1+.

The term workstation doesn't have anything to do with realistic instruments or the fact that samples are being used. Same goes for synths. There are synthesisers with built-in fx, that can't be called workstations.

Btw, bvan, memory isn't measured in milligrams.

-tek

Tek,
You are right about the memory, sorry I had a long day working with medical terms.

The reason I said "advertising" is that I see "workstation" being used loosely by those marketing them. I have 3 keyboards, all 3 has a sequencer, midi connections, and all the other things you mentioned. Only 1 of them is a synth having the capability of synthesizing a sound. That keyboard is complete to the point that if you so choose you could do anything with it as a stand alone instrument except that it has no amp or speakers. My daughter has a "workstation" that cannot be classified as a synth. It has a sequencer I certainly would not like to work with. Therefore it appears to me that the term is used in an effort to market the keyboard. I have no doubt that you have/had a keyboard marketed as a workstation.

I wonder if Roland's System 100 was the first workstation.



-tek

Sure looks to me like it could be called a "workstation" Look at what Sweetwater has labeled "workstations".
I was not disputing that there are workstations, just that workstation and synthesizer are not mutually exclusive terms. If it can synthesize it is a synthesizer. And perhaps if you can "work" with it it is a "workstation". Semantics, semantics, semantics. To know what it is you have to look further than just a name.

I thought it was clear that all workstations include a proper synthesizer. Unless you're talking about those awful home keyboards and the groovebox crap (not just Roland's).

-tek

Tek,

Looks like you enjoy a good verbal match, me too, but no hard feelings.

The original poster asked the difference between a workstation and a synth.

<< I thought it was clear that all workstations include a proper synthesizer. Unless you're talking about those awful home keyboards and the groovebox crap (not just Roland's). >>

Using your above comment then it would appear to me that the answer to the original question would be: "a workstation is a synth with added features", since all workstations are synths.

<< A synth doesn't nessessarily have anything extra, which can be a very good thing, depending on the studio you already have.<<

Sooo, if you have a studio that already has the extras, a synth would reasonably make a better "workstation" than a workstation would, for if you have a workstation you would have redundant equipment that was not desirable. <> (as in your comment)

< Unless you're talking about those awful home keyboards and the groovebox crap (not just Roland's).>

My synth is a Kurzweil, the other two keyboards are Yamaha, one being a piano. None of these are "crap" but I know what you mean. It is a standing joke between my husband and I that we have had people with $100 Casios say, "I have a keyboard just like yours". That's always a laugh, my Kurzweil as it is cost over $5,000, but when we see one of those little "craps" one of us will invariably say, "look there's a keyboard just like yours\mine".

Nevie, hope you are seeing all this.

Tek, I hope you see this as a friendly verbal battle.

"..for if you have a workstation you would have redundant equipment that was not desirable."

It's the other way around, your workstation's sequencer would not get as much use, if you're already using Cubase. Same with fx, dedicated fx usually put a workstation's fx to shame.

With a Kurzweil, you buy it because of VAST, not the sequencer or fx. Atleast I did. Pong too, I suppose.

As for the original question. I already answered it in my first post. Equalizer was just rambling nonsense (as usual)

-tek

Tek,

Glad to see you leave the political hot seat for a minute and ......but....
Sounds like you are arguing both sides of the synth/workstation thread.

And my first reply was the best description of all....a synthesizer has to be able to synthesize. That's about the bottom line. My Kurzweil, I have never even thought about categorizing it. It's a good keyboard, I use lots of samples, and can do what I want it to do. If I want to make music I can, if I want to make noise I can. But it is just a part of my equipment. When I buy equipment the only name that matters to me is the manufacture (example: Kurzweil vs Casio). I want to know its capabilities and what can I do with it.

Btw....On this thread I disagree more with Equalizer than I do with you. How about that?
(Are we having fun yet???)

Hang on a second! I was giving the guy a run down of some of the differences between a workstation and a synthesizer to help him make his desicion. I never realised I'd have a group of locusts coming out and saying crap like;

"I disagree more with Equalizer than I do with you"

Is this the new fashion - to start disagreeing with everything I say, just because of my political comment post???

The bottom line is, if you really want to get into a word game then there are certain people on this thread who have made several statements which are utterly WRONG. For example...
-----------------------------------------
"all workstations include a proper synthesizer" - by Tek

I say- WRONG! I own a Roland G600 workstation and it absolutely does NOT have a synthesizer on board.
------------------------------------------
Here's another...

"The term workstation doesn't have anything to do with realistic instruments or the fact that samples are being used." again by Tek

I say- Ok, smart ass, if that's the case, name me one single workstation that you can buy in the shops which does not utilise the triggering of onboard samples.
--------------------------------------------

And then, later on in the thread, we have people talking about "verbal battles" and "argueing both sides of the thread".

Listen guys, I didn't reply to the original post with the intention of going into some kind of childish word game. I replied to the original post with the intention of helping a fellow musician who needed a little friendly advice.

If you want to turn this into some kind of personal war, then please count me out. I've got better things to do.

-Equalizer

Some of those "awful home keyboards" have pretty powerful synths inside them. My PSR740 has essentially an MU100 locked inside - same (or similar) chips etc. (16 parts ony though and some of the non-XG instruments are different). It just doesn't have all the knobs and sliders. But with the right program on the PC via sysex you have access to 4 DSPs, each with up to 102 effects and 16 parameters per effect, plus all the drum kits and other stuff.

Eq, I've seen the G600 and it definitely falls under the crappy home keyboard category, no matter how much it costs.

About the samples. You said:
"a workstation contains lots of onboard sounds which attempt to replicate the sounds from *real* musical instruments."

True, but so does a whole bunch of synthesizers too. It's called sample playback. This isn't exclusive to workstations. The guy might not need the onboard sequencer or fx. Right?

Just look at my first post, newvie (heh a typo in your name?). Synthesizers come with all kinds of synthesis. Including realistic samples of acoustic instruments. You just need to decide on the extras.

-tek

Nowadays the term "Workstation" is different than it was back in 1992. I consider a workstation to include a synth or & sample playback engine, MIDI and audio sequencer plus a CD-R so an entire MIDI and audio project can be finalized on the one machine. I'm not saying this is better or worse than a computer based system, but for many musicians, not having to depend on a computer to produce a CD can be a huge plus.

And I have changed my mind about so called "home keyboards" after hearing the ketron SD-1 and Yamaha 9000 Pro. The new Yamaha Tyros also sounds very realistic from demos I've heard. As Pilot says, PSR keyboards are usually just based on current chipsets that are used in other products. I like the auto accompaniment feature in home keyboards which is really just a useful enhancement of a usually static MIDI sequencer. You can create your own styles which can make auto accompaniment a useful song writing tool. Unfortunately I haven't yet used a Yamaha MIDI sequencer that is conducive to creativity.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 11-26-2002).]

Tek- I am beginning to have second thoughts about you. Till recently I've held you in high esteem, but now I'm not sure.

I find it utterly childish how you have chosen to go down the route of slagging the gear I have like some kind of frustrated, failed bedroom musician.

The point about my "crappy" Roland G600 is not that it is good, bad or "crappy". The point is, that there's a big word written on the box it came in, and the word is "WORKSTATION".

If we look back in the thread however, we can clearly see that on at least one occasion you have declared (and I quote!) "all workstations include a proper synthesizer". The G600 (and indeed the Roland G800's and even G1000's) do NOT have onboard synthesizers of any description. I therefore conclude Tek, that you are in fact wrong. (now spell it!) F.A.C.T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Tek, if you had read my original post from start to finish without suddenly jumping on and typing out some jibberish in an attempt to prove to the world how much of an infinite source of wisdom you are, then you would have noticed that I had said (and I quote!)...

"both synths and workstations have presets which attempt to replicate the sounds of real instruments" -equalizer.

Still not happy?

Well, here's another quote from my original post...

"...the difference between synths and workstations seems to be becoming more blurred every year. Powerful instruments like the Korg Triton for example are often described as "workstation synthesizers" because they can pretty much do all the things a workstation can do, as well as doing all the things a synthesizer can do" -Equalizer."

Tek, I have proven to all onlookers that despite the smug facade and the CONSTANT attempts to dazzle us all with your knowledge of synths... when it comes right down to it, you really don't know that much at all, do you?


Tek, I don't have any interst in slagging your equipment, or anyone elses. Millions of dollars have been spent to ensure that there will always be a good supply of small minded consumers who, like you, who will always be on hand to do that at the first opportunity.

Nor do I have any interest participating in some kind of childish "I know more than you do" contest.

All I say is, let's simply wait and see who among us achieves the most success in the field of music... for the stage is where the real truth comes out.

-Equalizer



[This message has been edited by Equalizer (edited 11-26-2002).]

I didn't quote your first post in its entirety, but I DID read it. You said this too:

"it's generally agreed that workstations sound more realistic because of their totally different method of sound production."

Again, you assumed the term workstation has to do with the type of synthesis involved, which is why I had to clear that up.

Do you really think I'm bashing the G600, because you have one? Please. The G600 is a one man band, designed for the gigging musician. You could have done way better than that, if you're only producing music at home. Now, if you are a gigging musician, good for you, but don't try to tell me it's a workstation.

-tek

Tek,

In my opinion, the most important feature for any instrument is sound.

I challenge you to find any non-Roland board, sound module, or software package which has a better sounding grand piano preset than my *crappy* G600. If you do, then I'll give it to my nephew as an early Christmas present.

-Equalizer


[This message has been edited by Equalizer (edited 11-26-2002).]

I'm the worst judge you could find to determine a good grand preset. I don't think I've ever used a piano sound in my music and I don't play, remember? I agree, Roland does have great presets, but why limit yourself to no tweaking?

-tek

Well, if I want to start tweaking I'll use my Korg Z1 or else a software synth like Absynth.

To "synthesize" is to put things together.

Here is how 2 leading English dictionaries define "synthesizer

American Heritage Dictionary.
'Music An electronic instrument, often played with a keyboard, that combines simple waveforms to produce more complex sounds, such as those of various other instruments" Note WAVEFORMS PRODUCE.

Webster
Usually computerized electronic apparatus for the production and control of sound (as for producing music) Note: PRODUCTION OF SOUND

The way the original question was put, it sounds to me like the inquirer was expecting a single instrument, not a group of separate component parts.

A "workstation" is where you work. A "workstation" comes in a box labeled "workstation", and it might even have it right on the instrument itself.

A synthesizer can be a workstation and a workstation can be a synthesizer