Hi all,
I started playing keys on an arranger 9 years ago and having no music experience before hand.
After about 4 years learning the arranger mostly from written music I started to slow down in my skill level and didnt seem to get alot better after.
2 years ago I decided to start learning the piano and started to read the bass cleff.I didnt really play much on an arranger until now and I have found that I am way more advanced at playing an arranger now and find it very easy to improvise around the music only having to read the treble cleff.

It seems whilst I continue to learn the piano I have to practice very robotic and strict playing techniques but when playing on the arranger I let myself go and play with ease,if you know what I mean.

Did most of the proes come from playing pianos and organs in the arranger buisness or were they just good vocalists who didnt neet to much keyboard playing skill?

Regards,
Daz

Hi Daz, as a vocal-keyboard entertainer I'd say that having started formal piano lessons at 4 gave me a big edge in making keyboard playing feel second nature, like walking, but like anything else, if you don't continually use whatever skills you've developed, you'll eventually lose it. I embarassingly have to admit that I've regretably lost most of the classical chops I once had.

On the topic of arranger vs solo piano/keyboard: They are different instruments requiring uniquely different skills to sound good. My childhood music teacher once told me "the piano (keyboard) is perhaps the easiest instrument to grasp the 'basics' of music with, but the most difficult to 'master'.

Scott

"My childhood music teacher once told me "the piano (keyboard) is perhaps the easiest instrument to grasp the 'basics' of music with, but the most difficult to 'master'."

Your piano teacher must have been talking about me when she said that. The only difference is that I never mastered either.

Gary

I have yet to find a piano player that can easily adjust to just playing chords with the left hand. They all want to keep the left hand moving, playing notes.
It must be hard to think that simple after years of playing left hand piano runs and patterns.
DonM

As a guitar player as well as playing keyboards I know the pros and cons of each very well.

Keyboard Pros:
The piano keyboard is laid out in such a linear manner that grasping the concepts of keys, scales and chord construction is very logical and visual. The guitar is very different with the same note in the same octave appearing in multiple locations on the fret board on different strings. On a keyboard every note is unique.

Keyboard Cons:
Changing key on a keyboard by even a semitone requires very different fingering due to the difference in white keys and black keys required. On a guitar it is simply a shift of a fret otherwise it is identical fingering wise.

When it comes down to it every instrument is different and have their strengths and weaknesses but that is also what gives each its own special musical character.

Anyone who thinks piano/keyboard is the most difficult to master has never tried violin. To me it is the most incredibly difficult instrument to get the correct intonation out of, add to that there are 2 totally different skills required between fingering and bowing. My cudos go out to anyone who becomes even just proficient on it. And Perlman, Midori.....fogedaboudit!
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 02-14-2004).]

LOL, I've never even tried to play a violin but it has always seemed to me that in order to do it well you almost have to have palsy in order to get the right amount of vibrato in the fretting hand. Never did figure out how they keep the thing tucked under their chin, shake one hand and bow with the other, but, LOL I have trouble chewing gum and walking at the same time. However, since I use the same chord fingerings for a lot of my organ playing (as well as reading written music for some of it) I find chording an arranger keyboard a "natural" thing to do.

Tom

------------------
Bigger is not always better

when playing left hand chords its not too hard because you stay within the octave,what i find incredible is how piano players drop up and down octaves without looking at the keys, bearing in mind that they do it with both hands at the same time,it certainly can be a difficult instrument to master ,mike

Believe it or not, in addition to piano, I studied violin and performed in the school orchestra (4th thru 7th grade). Like Nigel, I think that every instrument has its own challenges. The primary difference between a string instrument (like the violin) & the piano (percussion) is that with a string instrument (like singing) you have to train your ear (listen) to reproduce the correct pitch, whereas when playing the piano, the pitch is fixed. This affords the beginning piano student to easily learn a simple song (in tune) whereas the violin requires technique & ear training to play that same tune. On the other hand, the piano requires the understanding of orchestration, chord mastery to balance inner voicings, and often multiple melodic/counter melodies, often emulating different orchestral instruments. On the other hand, violin is primarily a single melodic line (not chordal) instrument.

The keyboard (piano/organ) was the sole 19th century instrument used to emulate the 'entire orchestra'. Many orchestral composers did their composing on the piano.

Before the age of 20th century recording, the piano was the only way to hear what orchestrated music sounded in your home. All the classical compositions of the time were routinely transcribed for piano. The goal of classical composers/performers was to write/perform piano muisc to re-create the instruments of the orchestra. Piano Masters like Vladimir Horowitz were able to give the impression you are listening to an entire orchestra on the piano alone. Ok, for those of you who've already fallen asleep, you can wake up now. Class is OVER! - Scott

Lets not forget that being a Good Arranger player requires being a scientist of sorts....being a Piano or Arranger Keyboard player is secondary to making lightning fast changes & navagting all over your KB....all tis while your being just a Piano player of sorts.
Playing piano is JUST THAT....
But... Playing an Arranger
KB is so much more.....and is a very unique artform that must be praticed constantly to be good at it. You must THINK LIKE A FULL BAND & that includes knowing what each instrument your playing at once can be capable of & playing it proficiently like THAT INSTRUMENT Should Be Played....
I see this Flaw in peoples playing all the time...eg: you dont play Brass like an Electric piano, etc.....this topic is very complicated and is very involed in many many aspects with just one answer NOT Acceptable...it needs to be disected and discussed piece by piece to be really explored corectly.....
Don't fool yourself Arranger KB Playing is
SERIOUS BUSINESS MY FRIENDS!!!

------------------
www.donnypesce.com