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#38452 - 01/21/04 12:38 PM Live set-ups?
RW Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/01
Posts: 344
Loc: NJ, USA
Hi all,
I need to start learning and investing in being self sufficient for live gigs.
I'm looking to put together a Praise & Worship/ Christian rock band. Using 2-4 keyboards, 2 acoustics guitars, one electric guitar, one electric bass guitar, drummer and hand drummer.

I will need two main speakers and probably 2 monitors. I'll probably use 5 mics.

Does anyone know of any good online resources/ web sites that explain how to set this all up. 3 keysboards would need 3 stereo channels, guitars will need 4 channels, vocals would need 5 channels. total of 15 channels.

I suppose a 16 track mixer will be needed, two main speakers, two monitor. Wouldn't I need things like compressors, EQ's, separate mixer for monitors?

Thanks for any direction you could give me.

Peace
Bob
<><

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#38453 - 01/27/04 12:55 AM Re: Live set-ups?
FAEbGBD Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 847
Loc: Nashvville TN
Are you not going to mic the drums and the conga player? What size of a venue are you looking into covering. With that many players you'll want more than 2 monitors. What kind of budget do you have to work with? I'd say you'll need upward of ten grand to do anything decent.

A rock band you'll probably want to mic your drums. with that many keys and electric bass you'll want subs to go with your main speakers to help distribute all the sound coming out so your mains don't have to work so hard pumping out the low end.

I'm really impressed with Yorkville Pa gear. They make a Powered mixer with 22 channels. 1600 watts to front house and 500 to monitors. No external power amps needed. it would give you a few extra channels for mic'ing the drum kit or percussionist. They also make powered subs that are self-powerd so no external amps needed to run those. I think the subs run a thousand watts each. Giving you a total 3600 watts to front house. This should be quite suitable for a medium-sized venue, maybe up to 500 people. The E152 is a nice main speaker, with the U15 being better still.

the Shure sm58 is kind of a standard vocal mic, but the Shure Beta line again would be better.

The Yorkvill Powermax mixer has 2 monitor sends to run 2 independent mixes. You could get 3 mixes out of it using the effects send, but you would need to power that signal somehow. Compressors are nice for vocals to be sure, but probably not essential to get started.

Now, if you're looking to blow the roof off a building, this setup I've described will not be nearly enough. I know a guy with an awesome system who uses 8 18-inch subs and 8 12-inch tops. It must be upward of 25000 watt system. Then you're talking serious money. say 30 grand.

[This message has been edited by FAEbGBD (edited 01-27-2004).]

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#38454 - 02/02/04 07:48 AM Re: Live set-ups?
RW Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/01
Posts: 344
Loc: NJ, USA
FAEbGBD,

Thanks heaps for the reply. You raise very interesting points. Thanks. This is ground zero for me. Just last week I posted my question.

Wow 10 grand. I'd be pushing my luck if I got my budget up to 3 thousand. As far as venues that I can picture in my mind, I'd say small to medium rooms. For the time being, my "band" for lack of a better term, consists of, myself on keyboards, acoustic guitar, and vocals, My son-in-law also on keyboards, acoustic guitar and vocals, and my wife, djembe, bongos, tamberine, shakers and vocals. We've only had one "gig" and used our churches PA. We want to add a drummer, a bassist, and an electric guitarist, but this may take a year to find the right people. We're hoping to use their vocals too.

I see us playing in churches mainly, but possibly small halls like AmVets, VFW's, and maybe school gyms. I also would love to play outdoors in the summer at parks and other fairly populated public places like flea markets, and the like.

I doubt we'll draw many people when we play outside, but who knows. I can't imagine playing to more than a couple hundred people in any venue, if that helps.

I see you sort of referenced wattage to number of people/venue. Which was helpful and interesting. I will checkout Yorkville PA. Also as I'm reading from "Live Sound For The Performing Musician" by Paul White, I'm seeing that amps and effecieny is a serious thing to consider. The book states about 40% of the power is lost to heat. Which brings me to this question, does that powered mixer from Yorville PA, come with a fan or anything? Does it get hot? Just curious.

Also, I see your point about micing the drums. I hadn't thought of that. That's gonna require a few more channels. And about adding subwoofers.

I hadn't realized how much there is to this live sound stuff.

But really thanks again for taking the time to reply. Your post is the kind of feedback I was hoping to get. It helps broaden my mind.


Peace <><
Bob

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#38455 - 02/06/04 12:56 AM Re: Live set-ups?
FAEbGBD Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 847
Loc: Nashvville TN
The Yorkville mixer does have a fan to keep the amps cool.

The setup I described is very similar to the system I have, only I have external power amps and a Mackie mixer, but I'm looking to sell it or trade it for the Yorkville. I used it for a gig of nearly 1000 people. I was pushing the system fairly hard though, and it was an acoustic type group, no drummer and screaming electric guitars. 2 acoustics and a bass player. That was running my system about as hot as I'd want to run it. SO if you had a similar system and had a drummer and electric guitarist, it should give you enough head room to get a decent mix for the numbers of people you describe. It might even be a bit more than you need, but too much power is loads better on your speakers than not enough power.

That being said, if you want to play churches and such, you probably won't need to mic the drums. Drums usually carry quite well in small buildings; maybe just a mic in the kick drum for some punch. Outdoors though drums must be mic'ed.
Sorry bud, $3k just isn't going to cut it.

[This message has been edited by FAEbGBD (edited 02-06-2004).]

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#38456 - 03/07/04 04:54 PM Re: Live set-ups?
R-F Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/04
Posts: 119
Loc: Berlin/ Germany
Hi,
I would use a HK Audio Elias, aktive with processor and multibandcompressor (2 subwoofers, 2 tops, 2 additional amps for monitor systems.
I would take a mixer with more than 15 channel. Important tuneable mids, helpful a built in graphic EQ.
The keyboard players needs own monitors. JBL control one equipped with a amp may be good for this.
I would not pick up drums in smaller locations. The producer of hearing aid will not pay you for damaging audince's ears.
For pick up electric guitars (not steel string acoustic) you can use a special DI box with speaker simulation (Red box sounds great). Acoustic guitars needs a compressor to make the tone better audible.
I would use 4 monitors for the band, maybe the same mixdown as for PA with a little voice up.
In smaller churches the Drummer may use brushes or unplugged sticks (a kind of wood brushes).
Feel free to E mail me.

------------------
Regards
RF
_________________________
Regards
RF

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