Hi everyone, I know this question will bring different opinions. For those that have had the pleasure of owning or spending time with all three of these synth manufactures offerings on the arranger end, which one from first to last do you think has the most realistic sounds and why. Obviously I'm refering to the most recent models offered ex: Korg PA80-PA1x, Roland VA7-G7, Yamaha 9000Pro-Tyros etc. Ease of use is not a factor.

Well my take is the PA1x pro has the most realistic sounds, especially playing them solo for recording purpose.

The Tyros has the most realistic sounds when mixed within the arranger styles playing, they work well together,

The Roland is a bit like the Tyros, but I'm going on the VA7 sounds, not the G70, the Roland does the best with midi files sounding the best, but with solo voices they seem a tad weak,

Hope this helps

So your saying that the Roland sounds better when playing midis. I didn't know that makes a difference, In midi should the internal sounds sound the same as if you play them solo or with a style in arranger mode?

I know it doesn't make sense, logically you would think sounds would sound the same regardless. But for some reason Rolands GS platform blends together the best when it comes to playing the most amount of midi files, with the least amount of adjusting.

I know the SD1 sounding very good playing midi files also but the edge is still to Roland.

I guess it comes down the total mix.

It's been my experience that the Tyros sounds better than the other Yammies. It sounds like a CD.
The Korg PA80 (haven't heard the Pro) and the Ketrons sound more like live bands. Haven't heard a Roland since the G800, but I liked the sounds it had, for the time.
Actually they all have good enough sounds to please me.
DonM

Hi,
I think a lot of the early commercial midi files ( at least here in Australia) were created for Roland gm/gs.
The VA7 came with dozen's of them, some of the same ones I paid a fortune for back in the mid 90's. Played through the 9000pro & the KN7, they just didn't sound as good, maybe with some revoicing, but I didn't bother at the time. Haven't had a korg since the o1w & i2 series, but again, the same midi files didn't sound as good on the korgs as they did on thr roland g800.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SYNTH_GUY:
[B] So your saying that the Roland sounds better when playing midis.

mid file playback since most old pro standard is GM/GS sound best with roland.Korg suffers in strings and piano(though it wins in reed/pads/ep/drums dept).
roland does have good midrange sound,where yam is good for Hi's and Korg for lower end relatively.

Here is a Midi file where I re-arranged some of the Voices to sound the best on my Tyros. Somebody tell me without batting an eye or crossing their fingers behind their back that a Roland Arranger or any Roland Keyboard has better sound when it comes to Midi playback than this Midi does using my Tyros.

If it is indeed true that Roland excels in midi playback as some people have implied somebody please post a midi song using a Roland Keyboard or Arranger - using 'just' the Keyboard or Arranger with no other enhancements or tricks and record it using a Hard Disk recorder or your PC/Mac recording software and convert it to an .mp3 and post a link here on the Zone so everyone, not just me, can compare and judge for themselves. If it is really true Roland rules the roost regarding midi playback I will be the first one to admit it but so far all I hear is talk, talk, talk, with no solid proof.

>> The proof is always in the pudding they say.

Btw, the song is called "Sono Contento" (They Are Content) by Alex Britti, an Italian.

I hope you enjoy it as much as I do:

Sono Contento

Best regards,
Mike

I wish a company would build a Keyboard that had all the best features of the Korg PA80-PA1x, Roland VA7-G7, Yamaha 9000Pro-Tyros etc

That would be my dream keyboard, PERFECT...

Another feature I would like to see, Is a keyboard that had the abilty to record MP3 or wav, So you could record your voice while you play...

The Gem Genesys can record wave files so you can record singing and playing. You can also put it on C.D. If it is used in the right way, it could be a very comprehencive keyboard.

I found a commercial midi file of this song and I adapted it to my Roland G-70 (in a few minutes using Song MakeUP tools).
I recorded the output of the G-70 using Wavelab without any further editing.
Unfortunately I don't have a personal web page; if anyone is available to host the file I recorded, it would be possible to compare it with Mike's one.

Hey o3bor,

Send it to me. I'll host it for a couple of weeks on a test server in my office.

msutliff@tc.umn.edu

-mike

Hi Mike!

I sent you the file.
Please confirm that you received it correctly and let all of us know its link.

Thanks very much.

Hey o3bor,

Got the files and here's the link:

http://genny.lib.umn.edu/mp3/britti.mp3

Sampled at 543 K/bits...The file is almost 6 Megs in size....Might take a while if you're on dial-up.



-mike

This is getting interesting. The Tyros rendition sounds great. The voices are very clean, excellent drums. The guitars sound good, but Roland is usually very strong in the guitar voices. Should be interesting, but we are comparing MIDI file playback, arrranger playing, or single iinstrument playback might be different.
Starkeeper

Thanks very much, Mike.
Also keybplayer's file was about same size.

Sorry, I didn't check the MP3 tag; it is not correct and it is related to a previous file that I saved for a friend of mine.

Let's wait for comments...

Both are very good, but different. I could live with either one--it's hard to say which is better. The Tyros file seems to bring out more of the background sounds. Maybe the lead on the Roland stands out more.
DonM

I noticed that as well. On the Roland, the guitar in the background is almost inaudible.
The Tyros sounds live where the Roland sounds like a professional CD recording.
Starkeeper

Frankly speaking, I didn't work so much on the lead/back balance.
Of course it could be improved or adjusted according to each one's taste.
As I wrote, I just took a commercial midi file and modified the tone selection using MakeUp tools (few minutes) in order to compare the sounds.

Yep, I agree, both sound good but both sound different.

The Tyros sounds crisp and articulate. The Roland sounds mellow, almost subdued. I find it to be the more relaxing of the two when listening back to back. I know I felt better about how the strings sound on the Roland. But then there are those wonderful guitars on the Tyros..........

-mike

Mmmh..., I think I should have choosen a different (brighter) guitar tone on G-70 and increase a little bit its level in order to better simulate the Tyros one, but I particularly like the Steel Gtr tone that I choose, that's why...

Speaking of midi files,
I was just messing around with a program named synthfont (freeware)today , and I think together with some freeware soundfonts (I used TitanicSF) it sounds pretty good, add some effects and you can get pretty good results.

I recorded a demo (midifile) so you can hear it for yourself:
http://members.home.nl/schoeber/dontknowmuch.mp3

Greetz ,
Marcel

[This message has been edited by Wazza (edited 01-13-2005).]

Interesting indeed!!

Here is another teaser from the Tyros called "Nite Funk". There are many other type instrument voices on this one like a Clavi, some synth sounds, a Growl Sax, and the Tyros' Live! Grand Piano. And a Nice Sweet! Pan Flute also. Oh, and a cool Slap Bass! Plus others.

Enjoy! May the best Board win!!

Nite Funk

PS: People with other Brand Boards like the Pa1X/PRO, GEM Genesys PRO, Ketron SD1 or other are welcome to add something if they like to also.

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 01-13-2005).]

Lets compare with the Korg Pa1x or Pa80 as well.

Hi Marcel,
that came up incredibly well.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wazza:
[B

Thanks Rikki, I think some of today's freeware soundfonts sound pretty good, but the soundfont I used for this demo (TitanicSF) uses samples from Motif ES, Fantom X, Tyros etc., I think thats also a reason why it sounds very good, although I don't know if its legal .

Greetz ,
Marcel

PS: Just for clarification, I didn't record the midi itself, I found it somewhere on the net.


[This message has been edited by Wazza (edited 01-14-2005).]

Nice Marcel..

Soft Synths may be the wave of the future and with the likes of the Open Labs "neKo" Workstation you have the best of both worlds where it's an actual Keyboard but with the ability to import VST plugins under a Windows XP environment (OS) to play sounds using soft synth instruments.

The Piano sounded a little weak in your demo but most of the other instruments were pretty good especially the distorted guitar sound.

Thanks for posting the Software side of things Marcel although the topic is regarding Hardware Synths/Keyboards so it is unfortunately like comparing Apples to Oranges instead of Apples to Apples. But your entry is appreciated nonetheless, although it cannot be 'counted' in the vote because of the discrepancies in your method, i.e. you did not use a hardware Arranger or other type hardware Keyboard such as a Roland Fantom X, etc. But I for one enjoyed listening to your midi file with your use of a soft synth and sound fonts.

Best regards,
Mike

PS: Still waiting to hear the Pa1X/PRO and other top contenders.

>> I wanted to mention that I too liked the G70 demo but I feel it didn't trump the Tyros. I did especially like the Strings in the G70 demo. They sounded very realistic and full. But I might note that the Strings I used in my demo were the XG Ensemble Strings1 and not the Panel Strings or Panel Live! Strings. Even though that was the case, the XG Ensemble Strings on the Tyros sounded very good too I thought... My opinion of course.

Speaking of distorted guitars, - here is a midi song I recorded using my Tyros where I optimized (arranged) the Voices to suit my taste and would like to share on this thread where the topic is regarding midi playback capabilities and or superiority of "Voices" using a hardware Arranger/Keyboard.

Excuse my over zealous enthusiasm but I wanted to give everyone a more precise and therefore an 'overall' picture of the Tyros' midi playback ability and how it compares to other Boards, so I incorporated in the songs I chose a wide variety of onboard instruments so people can get an overall picture of the Tyros' ability. Thus enabling them to determine more precisely and ultimately beyond a doubt the "who's who" of midi file playback i.e. 'who' is the king and undisputed winner - if there is such a thing.

PS: As we all know, all of todays High End (and sometimes not so high end) Keyboards are very good at what they do although comparing them is kind of fun and it gives the listeners more fodder to fuel their opinions and decisions when it comes to choosing a Keyboard or just in 'ranking' different Brands of keyboards and their sound capabilities. Especially when someone implies that a certain Brand is superior when in all actuality the implication may not be necessarily true.

>> Sounds are always in my opinion the number one priority when choosing a keyboard. Features are always nice but sounds always trump features. At least to me they do. I think many others would agree.

PS: This song is for demonstration purposes only and I in no way condone or otherwise endorse the lyrics attributed to this song. This song is simply to demonstrate the Tyros' distorted and electric Guitar sounds.

Another PS: This is the last song I will post demonstrating the Tyros' midi playback capabilities. I promise..

If others would like to, they can post up to 3 songs (total) using their Boards also. So as to be fair.

Enjoy! And thanks for your patience!

Hard Rock On Tyros

Well here is my version of Nite Funk, played by PA1X Pro
Hope you like it.

NiteFunk

Jan

Keybplayer can you please send me this Hard Rock midi file,I like it very much?
I will 're-voice' it so that we can compare it with the PA1xPro.

Jan

What are you guys using to revoice on the Tyros and the PA1xpro,

Are you doing it on the keyboard or a program?

I thought I'd throw my two cents in when it comes to midi files. I do agree with you that good sounds are a top priority when it comes to good midi playback. But I've come to learn that there's even more involved when it comes to realistic reproduction. Accurate sequences (of course) and proper use of effects are also key. With all this said, I still feel that the best sequences, or should I say, the most realistic sequences that "I've" heard are the ones that come preloaded on a GeneralMusic keyboard. Their engineers do such a wonderful job of tweaking these files, shaping the sound so as to be faithful to the original....It's amazing.

But enough talk, here's a sample I put together. 10 to 15 second clips of a handful of songs I thought worthy of your shootout.

I call it:

Midi - mania

All songs were recorded from a 1998 GeneralMusic WK8.

-mike

Jan,

I just sent you the Hard Rock midi file to your email address.

Btw, thank you for posting Nite Funk using your Pa1XPRO! It gives us a glimpse into the Pa1XPRO's midi playback prowess which is much appreciated.

It is up to the 'jury' to decide for themselves how each Board rates.

I myself liked the Pa1XPRO's Acoustic Grand Piano and B3 Organ very much! OTOH I felt the Drums lacked punch and definition and needed to be brought up higher (volume wise) into the Mix in my opinion. Overall it was a good effort by the Korg Pa1XPRO though.

Looking forward to the Hard Rock Midi using your Pa1XPRO! It should prove to be very interesting..

Best regards,
Mike

Mike "msutliff",

Thanks for posting your GEM WK8 midi demos.

For a 7 year old 'technology wise' Board, the WK8 sounds very Good!! Kudos to GEM for their efforts!

PS: I think part of the equation in midi playback is also how well each Board mixes the songs and its accompanying output, i.e. the resulting sound we hear.

For instance how is each part or track brought out or translated into the Mix volume or otherwise. Is each instrument's part cohesive, i.e. does it blend well volume wise with the other instrument part[s] in the Mix? Or is there some disparity in that regard? You want each instrument to be co-equal with the other instruments during playback so they each can be heard distinctly and as they should be in the Mix. In other words - Mixed correctly. How well a Keyboard does that through the technology incorporated into it, is of course a big part of the equation of how well it succeeds in midi playback, not just how good the Voices happen to sound - although that is an even a bigger part of the equation IMO). If you don't have good sounds to begin with you really don't have much unfortunately. Sorry if I've stepped on some toes, but without realistic sounding instruments (Voices) you cannot expect to sound like a real Band which is what us OMB's are all trying to achieve, right? But all the 'different' parts of the equation are all 'important' nonetheless.

DSP's, Effects, EQ's, LFO's, Envelopes, Filters, etc., all play a part in the equation too needless to say.

I also realize that some Midi files are not constructed, i.e. programmed all that good and can contain errors, so that too should be counted into the equation as Mike mentioned.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 01-16-2005).]

Where are the guys from Mediastation.
Here they could really market their MS-76 if it is what they say.

Thanks Mike for sending this midifile.
Here is the performance of the PA1x.

Hard Rock on PA1xPro

I changed the first Clean Guitar in a Nylon Slide.

I hope you like it.

Jan

Very good Jan!

The PRO really shines through on this song!

The Drums are right where they should be in the Mix... and have a real live sound to them.

The Nylon and Distorted guitars have good realism too. Thanks for sharing the Midi file with us.

Others are welcome to join in on the shootout too. Don't be shy guys...

Putting top notch Boards and Modules through their paces can really be enlightening. Boards like the Ketron SD-1 Plus, the Ketron Midjay Module, The Korg Pa50, the Yamaha PSR 3000, and even various traditional Workstations like the Fantom X or Triton Extreme.

If you want to brag on your Board's Midi playback prowess now is a great opportuntity to do so.

PS: What would be funny is someone posting a Midi from the PSR 3000 and it outshines the Tyros. >> Uh, I take that back... more like scary..

Nah! Ain't gonna happen!!

PS: Sorry if I seemed to have hijacked this thread. The original topic was one of who's Brand Keyboard has the best sounds which led into questions about Midi playback which led into my curiosity as well and the idea of a shootout. If Nigel wants I can post a new thread 'Midi playback shootout', etc. and Nigel (if he chooses to do so) can transfer the posts on this thread related to the shootout to the new thread if that helps and we can continue with the shootout on the new thread.

Best regards,
Mike

Mike, if you send me too the midi file, I'll convert it also on my G-70.
I hope that msutliff will be so gentle to host my new recording too.

Yep, no problem. Send it on over.

Oh yeah, I really like the sounds of the new Korg on the Hard Rock midi.

-mike

Thanks Mike!
I haven't received the midi file so far.
I guess that keybplayer is still sleeping since he is from CA

Thanks to Jan (Exound) I received the midi file, but I've been very busy today and I'll not be able to work on it during this weekend.
Please wait until monday for G-70 version of "Hard Rock". Sorry...

Hi,

Sorry for the delay.. I've been rather busy and wasn't able to check into the Zone until now. I sent you the midi but I now see you already got it from Jan. >> I missed your last post until just a few minutes ago unfortunately.

I'm glad that you were able to get the midi from Jan in the meantime.

Thanks again for your participation!

I'm looking forward to the G70 version of "It's Been Awhile".

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 01-21-2005).]

I just sent the files to Mike (msutliff).
I hope it will be available soon.

Thanks again Mike for hosting my recording.

No problem, glad to do it.

Here is the Roland G-70 playing the Hard-Rock midi file:

http://genny.lib.umn.edu/mp3/hardrockg70.mp3

Sounds good!

-mike

Thanks "o3bor" for giving us the G70 take on the Hard Rock midi and Mike for posting the .mp3 on your Server.

It was a real good effort by the G70 btw.

Best regards,
Mike