Guys, this thread has really begun to bother me, big-time! That's because four of the most tenacious contributors are friends of mine, and, who knows, Gordon may be a friend someday, as well.

I certainly spoke too soon when I congratulated people from vastly different backgrounds for using tolerance and courtesy in their discussions. Right after that post, things quickly went South....WAY SOUTH!

Taike, is like an adopted kid to me, and one of the most spiritual, giving people I know. He is a Buddhist, virtually gives all he can afford to the poor and less fortunate and works as a teacher because he really wants to make a difference in the world. It is my honor to be the "adopted" grandpa in his family. Taike and I work together to fund college/law school for deserving kids in his part of the world. A real renaissance man if there ever was one.

Chas is my all-time favorite Atheist. And, one of my all-time favorite people. He's an intellect, great musician and a modest, caring, concerned family man, with the kind of compassion on multiple levels that people of all faiths SHOULD have.

Rory is my favorite Christian. You have to give it to him; he practices what he preaches. While we may not be on exactly the same page in some areas, he is a real treasure to know...nice as anyone can be, and humble, in spite of being one of the most talented musicians (maybe the most talented) I've ever met. Soon, I'm sending him one of my favorite guitars, and it will be my honor to know he's making better use of it than I did. It will also be my honor to have him play it, and the L-5 I've decided to leave him in my will.

Bill is a guy I really started listening to, recently. He's a guy of substance, persistence(wish I was determined enough to lose the weight he did, using pure will power), with a wide variety of interests.

My point is, here are vastly different people, all, from my prospective, at least, superb individuals. But, once discussions like this get to where this one is, NOBODY WINS!

Having strong beliefs/convictions is GREAT. Having tolerance and the willingness to listen to alternative beliefs makes us better people. Take a step back, and, factoring in humanitarian issues, you guys have a lot more you can agree upon than you think. As far as religious convictions go, what's right is what's right for each of us, and no amount of discussion is going to move anyone from the position they have taken here.

Why doesn't everyone do each other a favor, and just call it quits on this one? Traditionally, discussions like this don't accomplish anything but perpetuate hard feelings and negativity.

We owe each other more than that!


Respectfully,


Russ




[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 08-13-2010).]

Russ-

I think we didn't do too badly. While Taike and Mr. G clearly don't see eye to eye, they seem able to disagree without being too disagreeable. The question has probably run its course, but I thought we had some really good, frank and sincere thoughts shared.

I love the discourse. Its thought-provoking and I think makes us all better humans.

Russ-What say you about burning the Quran? Or building the Islamic ctr. a few blocks away from ground zero?



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Bill in Dayton

Beautiful insight as usual, Russ. Actually it reflects what I'd been saying all along but I was misunderstood.

I bet were we all to meet with each other we'd be toasting each other with orange juice.

Like you love to say: Group Hug!

Russ, before I forget, Monk Noy's new term will start next month. I'll be getting in touch with you about it if you're still interested. I'll be sponsoring a new monk as the one I sponsored has graduated and is now a productive member of society.

I asked Nok to go to the temple and meet with Monk Noy. He's usually off at school as he's taking his studies very seriously. Hopefully she'll be able to meet with him and take a couple of pictures for you. He's a great young man with solid convictions. Nok told me that he really appreciates you and feels bad about being unable to give you anything in return but I think his devotion to his studies speaks for itself. You'd be really proud of him.

Your grandson, Mapanoy "Da Dude", attented school for three days but is back at home now. He says that he only wants to attend daddy's school. Having him run free in the yard makes me feel better as well. Even though I'm a kindergarten teacher myself, I never quite liked the idea of having small kids sit all day and spend all day inside. While it's very hot and humid outside, kids don't care as long as they're having fun.

Thank you, my friend.

Taike

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Bo pen nyang.

RELIGION IS SUCH A SENSITIVE SUBJECT. WE ARE ALL HUMAN AND WANT TO BE LIKED, LOVED AND EXCEPTED. Words that are writen can be taken in so many different ways,because we don't know how they are perceived as they are spoken, If By the things I expressed anyone was hurt or offended I want to be the first one to say , I am sorry and to please forgive me, I meant it for good and to encourage, not to hurt as some may have took it. I too have friends of all kinds of different faiths and religions and we are very close. If we really knew one another I know the same would hold true. I think a few of us just got off to a rough start. Lets try again. Taike, I wish the very best for you. It sounds like you have alot of friends on the forum and I hope to become one as well. May you all be blessed with good health and happiness. I think the topic of religious beliefs is not a good get to know one another subject. I agree with captain Russ, lets forgive and move on.
Gordon

Mr. G, I don't have anything or hold anything against you. Discussions tend to get tense at times. Unlike politicians, we're not here to drag each other through the mud or sling accusations at each other just to gain a point.

Holding out my hand to you...

Bill, I feel pretty much like Russ does about you. You know, in all these years we've been on SZ, this is actually the first time we've engaged in a conversation. Pretty neat in my book.

Regards

Taike

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Bo pen nyang.

Bill, there is so much emotional baggage wrapped up in those two topics, suffice it to say that I don't think anyone with a vested interest in the topics could make a public statement without pissing someone off. For instance, the issue of building an Islamic center close to the former location of the world trade center could be construed as a unifying thing, particularly, if it is appropriate for the demographic make-up of the area. But, you and I know there would be such a negative backlash by people entirely too close to the 9/11 tragedy for that to ever fly. If I were in the area and had lost friends and family members, my attitude might be different.

I have lived in lots of places around the world, and the differences in culture, lifestyles, music...everything is a fascinating thing. Here in the US, we are a relatively new culture. Again, I find the Vietnamese culture full of history and tradition. that attitude might really piss off some people I know, and I understand why.

Everything must be looked at in context. I am in agreement with a lot of your attitudes and evaluations and have begun looking forward to your responses, which are always well thought out and presented.


Thanks,


Russ




[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 08-13-2010).]

Holy cow, guys....

Keep this quiet, will ya? If the guys in the general arranger forum saw how maturely we handled some differences of opinion, they'd come right over here and ruin it!

Shhhh!!!!!!

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Bill in Dayton

Mr. G,

Actually I don't have many friends on SZ. Or in "real" life.

Friendship is something very sacred to me. I won't use "friend" when I actually mean "acquaintance". Neither do I like to be called "friend" when it's not meant. Just one of my many shortcomings.??

I guess it's one of these words that, when overused, lose its true meaning. Like having 2000 friends on Facebook.

Taike

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Bo pen nyang.

T-

We had a lovely conversation about health care almost a year ago. if my memory is correct, you and I were of one mind on the subject.

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Bill in Dayton

I don't know about you guys but, unlike on the General Arranger Forum, here we actually learn to know each other, what makes us tick, how we deal with issues in the real world. That's why the Bar has become my favorite spot on the internet.

Yes, we tend to get emotional here but there's nothing wrong with showing how one really feels. I wish more people were as open to each other as we are.

The Bar is a place where one can come out of the closet. Now don't take this the wrong way, you guys.

Taike


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Bo pen nyang.