I'm playing in a college band that plays mostly parties but also some bar gigs and I'm looking for the best way to amplify my keyboard for these events.

Unfortunately we don't have our own PA so everyone's sound (monitored on stage and heading out to the crowd) is basically left to themselves. I've been using a peavey kb60 that is just about dead and I need something inexpensive to replace it. But Basically its been impossible to use this one amp and meet the following 3 conditions:

1.) I can hear it in the mix
2.) the rest of the band can hear it
3.) people in the crowd can hear it

I assumed that I would just buy a better amp and wait on the PA that we'll be buying soon but since I've been reading through the archives of this forum, I've become concerned that I may have a fundamental misunderstanding of what I need in the first place.

When should you use a keyboard amp and when should you use speakers? It seems to me that for the same price of a decent amp I could buy a small stereo eq, a power amp and a decent 15" speaker. Then maybe I could run a small monitor for myself and position the speaker (or pair) more centrally for the rest of the band and audience?

Do keyboard amps add something to the sound that a PA speaker and power mixer, or PA speaker, eq and power amp couldn't?

Thanks in advance. Its always helpful to read your posts and I wouldn't be asking such a basic question unless I thought that I might be dangerously confused about something.

I mainly play through a Peavy KB/A 100. It's got enough power for me. But I think it's much better if you go the speaker route with power amp. But the way I see it is then you're so close to a PA system for the band ya know?

Here's something I've done before: I've used two amps and a mixer with my son-in-law. The amps were a Peavy KB300 and my KB/A 100. We used these two amps and a Behringer mx802 something mixer. (two stereo ins and 4 line inputs). We both play keys so I had one stereo channel, he had the other. We both also play guitar so we each had one line out and of course we both mic'ed our voices with the other two line inputs.

We maintained stereo for the keyboards because one amp was left and the other was right. We have been fortunate to place the amps behind us at each side of the stage, so we actually did not use monitors. We heard ourselves as the audience heard us.

In church I use my kb/a 100 as my monitor and use the pre-amp out to go to the PA. I loose stereo here which is a bummer and I want to over come this, so might use a very small mixer to run stereo to the PA and mono to my amp.

It's a tough call. I still think about getting a small pa but I wouldn't just for keys. I guess some folks do.

In either case I dont think the KB60 is enough. You could get two amps and a small mixer. You'd have flexibility depending on the gig ya know? Maybe the place has a PA so you just bring one amp as a monitor. Maybe they have nothing, so you bring both and the mixer.

I'm also curious to here what others are doing. I could stand to learn myself.

Best wishes
Bob
<><

Why not either mic your amp (continue to use it as a stage monitor) or if you have a line out run a line out through the front end?
Depending on the venue (I use the same amp regardless) I'll either just run out of my amp, or mic it or line out through the band P.A.
I'm just running a tight little Rickenbacker TR35B, but she's a powerhouse when I need it. See pic.



------------------
...L

Thanks for the helpful advice. I would just mic an amp through the the front end if the band had its own PA! Unfortunately for now, we're still working to aquire a PA so if we're not at a venue that has a house system (like most of the parties we play), all the sound out front is coming directly from the stage amps! I know....not the best setup.

So....I think I've decided to go with a used JBL eon 15" which I think will give me a bit more head room. Then maybe I can use a small monitor for myself and put the 15" somehwere further away on stage where the band and crowd will hear most if it.

RW, I guess I'm gonna have to let my band know that just cause it looks like a PA and quacks like a PA, it doesn't mean its a PA. Its my rig and we still need something else for the front end! (I've had the same concern that I maybe I'm accidentally buying the band a monitor or PA when I'm really just trying to do my keys a little justice in the face of screaming guitars and thumping bass).

Any words of caution before I go ahead and pick one of these speakers up?

Thanks again!

Here's something we tried a few times in some smaller venues (different band), and it worked quite well. ALL the amps were more or less placed in the same area, almost like a heap, back centre stage area. Bass & kb amps on the bottom, 2 guitar (rythym & lead) above those. Drummer was using an electronic kit, so we ran him through his own amp, and also through the front end.
Just curious, if you don't have, or use a P.A., what are you doing for vocals?
Just wanna make sure we're both on the same page here.....Your P.A. whether it's the band's or the house's..that's what you should be using for your vocals first. Additional available channels on the P.A. mix can be used for KBs , percussion, guitar. whatever, but personally I would only use the PA to enhance, not carry the job of amplifying a kb, or guitar, at least in a band situation. Solo is a whole other thing.
..Just my thots..

------------------
...L

[This message has been edited by shboom (edited 12-13-2004).]

must admit I've never tried the "amp heap" before! sounds pretty interesting!

I guess I wasn't 100% honest when I said we don't have a PA. What we don't have is a decent PA or one that we own for that matter. Right now for vocals we're borrowing a very small system with 8" speakers or something, just for the few vocals we have out front. 90% of our tunes are all instrumental.

Right, I agree that the band's PA should be for Vocals primarily and then serve to back up stuff on extra channels. But I guess the way I was looking at it is that I'm not really buying a PA, I'm just buying one 15" power speaker to use for my sound exlusively on stage. I'm planning to use this instead of, not in addition to an amp.

So I guess, back to my original question....is this crazy? What would an amp do for me that a nice power speaker wouldn't? Aren't they basically the same (nice clean signal with some juice behind it and a speaker that can handle the highs and lows)? Just seems to me that the same money buys you a little more in the power speaker department than it does in the keyboard amp department. No? I just keep asking myself why I ever played through an amp in the first place. If I'm missing something, please speak up!

Thanks for the great forum!

When you say power speaker, basically what you're referring to is a "powered speaker" cabinet, with which there is generally not a lot of control. and a separate speaker is going to need power from some place...ie: power amp..that being said, for what your looking at doing, (and I know I'm gonna get flack over this) is why not look at a 50 or 80 watt keyboard amp, with a 15".
A lot of the members here will disagree with the 15" aspect. These are my own personal preferences. I find the 15 has more punch for the bottom ends of a kb. Just because the amp is 50 or 80 or 800, that doesn't mean you have to crank it to 11 and start blowing out windows. The power is there if you need it, but run through a pedal for control, so you'll have that headroom when you need it. I've got a punchy little Fender 112 Deluxe (90 watt) which I use for guitar, and it's great...but...when I run keys through it...."it's horrible". The 12" just doesn't have the ..ooomph..I need. Talk to one of the techs in your local music outlet and see what they have to say.
Good Luck
Have a look...
http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=32&cat=16&id=86

------------------
...L


[This message has been edited by shboom (edited 12-15-2004).]

Wow, that yorkville looks like a beautiful amp, its just the money factor...sigh.

I guess I'm not clear about a couple things you mentioned. First, you say that a powered cabinet doesn't offer much control. Do you mean control in terms of eq etc? If thats the case I was planning to run through a small mixer before the cab.

Secondly I'm curious what you mean about running through a pedal for control so that I'll have the headroom when I need it. What kind of pedal and control are you refering to?

I agree about the 15"s...from my experience checking out amps recently, I think it does the bass a lot of justice that I don't hear through smaller speakers.

Thanks for your feedback!

A powered cabinet is just that....a cabinet with power to it. But control (volume / tone / eq) is another matter. Whereas an actual kb amplifier, has those controls all in one unit.
I'm seriously looking at getting that Yorkville unit. Runs about $650 Can. through Long & McQuade.

Okay..the pedal issue.
Basically what I'm getting at here is almost using the pedal unit as a limiter, that is, your controlling the amount of output, based on the pedal.
As an example...I run my T3 at about 75% on my volume slider on the keyboard itself, any more and I get some distortion in certain patches, (this is not a flaw of the T3. The patches actually have distortion applied, 'cos they're for ZZTop or whatever). So with my kb at this level of output, I can crank my amp, but limit how much is sent to it by way of the pedal.
I don't know if you play electric guitar, but to get the max results from you pickups, it's always best to have your guitar volumes set to full on, and then control the volume level by means of a pedal. This is the principle I'm applying to keys, and the headroom is just that...the added room to bring up the volume if and when needed for emphasis, like a swell, but learn to control it, 'cos it's easy to overdo it.
You'll do fine keys81, just find what's best for your needs. What I've decribed here...works for me. Good Luck in your endeavours.
------------------
...L

[This message has been edited by shboom (edited 12-17-2004).]