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#7384 - 03/18/02 11:52 AM Re: I'm feeling deep people...
stillme Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/01
Posts: 152
Loc: Michigan/US
Allright people! Amen...everything here is everything I wanted to hear. Okay, my turn.
In my opinion, people that say they don't believe in God somehow still fear God. People use any excuse not to believe...they don't look at the larger picture. I've heard 9/11 a few times here, I knew that one would come up. I've also heard "if such a powerful being exists...how can bad things happen?" I know I'm going to sound cold to some, to tell you the truth..I have a hard time explaining it for some reason...I know how it feels, but can't explain it. I'll give it a shot.

9/11...I know many are angry at God for this. I know many have turned on him if they hadn't already. "How can you let this happen God?? Why?!?" Have you ever heard that there is a reason for everything? Every action creates a reaction. Thousands of people died, but look what it did for us. There are thousands of people out there that DID open their eyes and turn to God. There are thousands and millions of people that came together and freely gave their love and support to eachother. I saw many ordinary people opening themselves to others, where we were so closed off before. We're so afraid to show emotions of love and caring. Why? Because something in our heads stops us in everyday life, and that something is a voice telling us that strangers will think you're wierd or nuts or something, or that you'll drive people away rather than create friends and people that love you. It makes me cry when someone is free enough to hug a friend, or someone of the same sex even though they aren't gay. You saw that on 9/11 and in the many weeks after. Perhaps a few were sacrificed to save millions? That's something hard for a person directly affected by 9/11 because we as humans are selfish. I'm not saying that to be chastising or to blame, I'm saying that as a fact. We are. Even if we believe a person is going to go to heaven or be in a better place, do we still hurt when they're gone? Why? Because we miss them. We want them here with us, even though the world is filled with such pain and hardship, we would rather have them here in it with us. You can deny it if you want, but in general that's what it is. People get angry when someone young dies, or when there's an accident and someone is taken away from them. They are ignoring the fact that there IS a God and that the people that are gone are not here suffering with the rest of us anymore. Plus they miss that person, and it hurts, and they think they aren't going to see them ever again because they are scared or forget that they WILL see them again on the other side when it is THEIR time.
The terrorists God...is a pagan God. Don't forget that a God can be evil. There is an evil presence here in this world and there is a constant battle for our souls. The evil took those people away from us on 9/11, the evil thought that if they did that everyone would end up hating God for not saving them from the horrific act. And God did save the ones that were needed here still. But not all of us turned on God, it strengthened many. And this is the battle that ensues every day between good and evil. Evil wants to take over this world and make it its kingdom, and us its slaves.
It says in the bible that we are children. And if you really take a good look at it, we ARE children until we die. Children tend to be selfish until they grow to understand sharing and thoughtfulness. You recognize this if you ever watch a child growing up. There are very few people, if any, that totally don't think about themselves still. We grow into adults, but we are still selfish in many ways. We're quick to turn on God, quick to disown him if something doesn't go our way...unless we ARE listening to him.
People think God turns on us, when in fact it is US turning on HIM. He can't help us if we turn our back on him and won't listen. Then we're just fighting our way through life alone and ignoring the one person who will give us direction and comfort and strength. Have you ever felt lost? Have you ever felt like you didn't know what just happened or what was going on? Tell me, were you listening to God or ignoring him? Had it been days or weeks or months since you even thought about him?
People say they don't understand why he lets things happen. Well, in all actuality, it doesn't say anywhere that we were SUPPOSED to understand anything. HE understands it, He knows what it is for when something happens...we don't.
When people hurt, they don't want to think about these things. We want to wallow in our misery and pain, rather then makes sense of it. Because we're selfish. Or maybe because we NEED to wallow in it for one reason or another. Only He knows.

Chris, right on about religion being the glue that creates a bond and strengthens the family. I agree. But unfortunately there are people out there who just don't want to believe. It seems easier to them if they don't . It seems weak to them if they do believe. And all I have to say to them is, keep telling yourself that and I hope someday you'll realize the truth. Like a lyric in my brother's song, "you can run, but you can't hide. You can't escape, someone who sees you inside. He knows your name. He knows what's on your mind, and that won't change. Just because you closed your eyes...Ever notice how every time you've fallen you start thinking of him? Ever notice how it always seems to come back to Him again?"

I don't know why, but I felt the need to start this. I hope it helps someone out there (even if you do think I'm crazy)

Peace and God bless.

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#7385 - 03/18/02 12:09 PM Re: I'm feeling deep people...
rattley Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/99
Posts: 751
Loc: Punta Gorda Florida USA
Why is it that every holy roller thinks that I am embarrassed by how I feel?? I am not embarrassed, ashamed or anything on MY feelings. I can't believe that some of my fellow musicians had to respond to me privately as not to embarrass me for stating my personal feelings. Why can't my feelings be just that? I didn't ask for a sermon by someone who's life clearly has more faith than my meager one! If our forum is to let everyone express their opinions then MAKE IT SO! I would never even consider giving religious advice to anyone unless I was something "Almighty"! I should have known that my honest response was an invitation to those who "pray" on others.

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#7386 - 03/18/02 12:12 PM Re: I'm feeling deep people...
stillme Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/01
Posts: 152
Loc: Michigan/US
Add-on:

I feel the need to coment on what surrounds us in every day life. Evil (Satan, whatever you want to call it) knows to surround us every day with evil. It knows that the only way to take us over is to keep pecking away day after day, in any way possible. It won over most of the TV stations. It won over most of the radio stations. It is on all sides of us all the time. It tells us that trivial things are what's really important. It makes us care more about earthly things than our own spirits. Just like some of you said, it turns us into shallow people where in all actuality, nothing really matters. It desensitizes us with drugs and bad messages. It tries harder when we turn to God. Am I the only one who starts having terrible nightmares when I get closer to God? Or has bad things happen more often? Or have you ever felt really strong with God and have someone who isn't strong with him at all start messing with your mind? People get angry at this and say, "YEah, look what I get when I believe...bad stuff starts to happen. Why bother?" Well, the stronger you get with Him, the more you realize that the "bad" things aren't really as bad as you thought and they really don't matter.

I don't know about you, but I've had moments where I've strayed from God only to have him tap me on the shoulder and wake me up again, as if to say, "Uh...Tracey, I'm losing you. Turn back." So loving and gentle, and yet he can be so powerful too. It was an answer clear as day from Him. People say, "Why can't he just come in front of you and tell you in person?" Well, you must have missed that part in the bible where God said, "If you look straight at me, it will drive you insane" (hope I got that right, correct me if I'm wrong)...he can't. We, especially as we are these days, cannot handle something as powerful as that. And if we did experience that and tried to make others beleive, we'd practically get ridiculed to death or written off as insane. And our spirits are so effected by what others think of us, we would believe these people who think we're insane and God knows this, so he speaks to us in ways that we can handle. He "shows" rather than "talks". And he's shown me many a time.

Sorry to preach, guys. But then again, maybe I'm not really sorry.

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#7387 - 03/18/02 12:23 PM Re: I'm feeling deep people...
stillme Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/01
Posts: 152
Loc: Michigan/US
Quote:
Originally posted by rattley:
Why is it that every holy roller thinks that I am embarrassed by how I feel?? I am not embarrassed, ashamed or anything on MY feelings. I can't believe that some of my fellow musicians had to respond to me privately as not to embarrass me for stating my personal feelings. Why can't my feelings be just that? I didn't ask for a sermon by someone who's life clearly has more faith than my meager one! If our forum is to let everyone express their opinions then MAKE IT SO! I would never even consider giving religious advice to anyone unless I was something "Almighty"! I should have known that my honest response was an invitation to those who "pray" on others.



Why are you getting so angry? I didn't say you were embarrassed with how you feel. I totally understand how you feel. What's the anger all about? If you don't like the thread, don't read it. And you know what, people need to be "prayed" on. Maybe you don't feel you do, but there are people out there who won't ask for it but who'll take it when it is offered. Why is it that "non holy rollers' get so angry when people talk about God? And now you're angry that someone had the courtesy to email you seperate because they were thinking about your feelings?

I would never even consider giving religious advice to anyone unless I was something "Almighty"!

God sometimes speaks through us. And I was wondering when some anger would show up on this subject. IT was bound to happen, just like I said. Someone always gets angry...everytime, and they always feel like they're being forced to believe in God or that we're picking on them.

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#7388 - 03/18/02 02:24 PM Re: I'm feeling deep people...
kaboombahchuck Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 275
Loc: Arizona USA
There was a time when I would state "people who believe in god are too weak to believe in themselves". A majority of folks did not understand (and will never understand) what I was talking about. Most folks were simply offended, and generally got pissed off.

Most religious beliefs have great moral rules. Other than that, most of them are just great stories used to scare people into submission. I don't need a person to stand there and tell me the difference between right and wrong. Most folks know the difference between right and wrong.

As long as there as been written history, difference in religious beliefs have been (and always will be ) the main cause of war. There is a point when too much good becomes evil. Take this thread for example. Some folks are already angered for what another man believes, because he don't believe in the same thing as they. When each person can accept the differences of each other person, then there will be peace and harmony. Of course this will never happen.

Anyway what I've stated, I'm shure, will create a great deal of angered debate, so I'll stop here.
_________________________
kaboombahchuck

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#7389 - 03/18/02 02:27 PM Re: I'm feeling deep people...
Chris Attison Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/98
Posts: 819
Loc: Long Island, NY.
Stillme,

I just want to say one more thing. I first want to say that I have respect for anyones beliefs, including yours. But dont get your religion and politics mixed up. 9/11 was not "evil". Thats what GW Bush said and he is a bullshit artist. Please dont parrot that man by saying these things are "evil".

He knows why those two planes crashed into the WTC and our Pentagon. It is our policy in the Middle East that has caused that tragic event where 3,000 lost their lives. And the bigwig politicians know it. It just goes to show you how much our government cares about the lives of civilians. Religion did not inspire those people to hijack planes. That is media slants and propaganda. I dont care if its fashionable to believe otehrwise.

Thats all.

[This message has been edited by Chris Attison (edited 03-18-2002).]
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#7390 - 03/18/02 04:04 PM Re: I'm feeling deep people...
epu Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/00
Posts: 466
Chris Attison, I agree with you 100% on the Middle East policy. Religion had little if anyting to do with it other than masterminds using Religion to get people to carry out certain duties. Everything is on our foreign policy.

It must be changed and reviewed unless they want more of this to go on. Israel needs to get out of those 1967-related occupied territories, otherwise kiss peace goodbye.

Anyhow, while I do believe in God, I'm tired of these people who want to preach for days and then select which practices they will follow in the name of the lord. You either follow the religion 100% or you don't. I'm also tired of the belief that someone who doesn't believe in exactly what you don't believe in is evil or wrong.

Chris is right, the majority of all of History's wars were fought due to religion. Believe whatever the hell you want to believe and leave everyone else alone. Your relationship with god is personal. No need to force beliefs on others or judge ANYONE. Judging is left to the one above alone.

That said, if someone does not believe in God, leave them alone and worry about yourself.

The Infamous Epu.

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#7391 - 03/18/02 04:37 PM Re: I'm feeling deep people...
rattley Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/99
Posts: 751
Loc: Punta Gorda Florida USA
Hello.......I too am sorry if my reply offended anyone. I just still can't figure out as to how anyone could be so presumptuious to think that I was asking for help. Nobody's ever come to my aid over a musical matter so quickly.........but mention religion...........WHEW!

This thread is a FIRECRACKER! Watch your fingers.......

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#7392 - 03/18/02 06:43 PM Re: I'm feeling deep people...
jedi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 1125
Loc: Merrimack, N.H.
In the seventeenth century the Pilgrims came to America to escape religious persecution only to be “burning people at the stake” for there religious beliefs. People have always cared what the other person is doing and to whom they pray to. Fear and ignorance, that is the trap that we should try to avoid.

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#7393 - 03/18/02 07:47 PM Re: I'm feeling deep people...
Cloakboy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/99
Posts: 523
Loc: Racine, Wisconsin USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Dave:
Nigel .... Heeeeeeelp !


One second you're all smug and shit, then when the tide turns a little bit, you ask for mod help. LAME.

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