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#5825 - 02/04/03 02:16 PM Please help me identify this type of guitar.
epu Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/00
Posts: 466
I'm good at arranging for them, but unfortunately not being able to identify them all. I'm trying to identify the type of guitar that was used for rhythm comps on these songs:
Get On Your Feet - Gloria Estefan
I Wanna Be Your Lover - Prince
779-5311 - The Time
P.Y.T. - Michael Jackson
Circles - Atlantic Starr
Haven't You Heard - Patrice Rushen

I only named these particular tunes for you to get a better understanding/clearer picture of the type of guitar I'm trying to identify.

The purpose is for me to find a guitar mutlisample CD that has these types of guitars so I can play and include them in arrangements using my keyboard. Roland calls these "Clean Guitars", but any guitar can be recorded "clean".

Thanks for your help,
The Infamous Epu.

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#5826 - 02/05/03 04:19 PM Re: Please help me identify this type of guitar.
freddynl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/17/99
Posts: 1150
Loc: netherlands
Epu,
As a guitarplayer and owner of +20 guitars I can tell you that your question is impossible to be answered.
The only possible answers would be guesses or close to...
You are talking real instruments here, so
this means none will sound the same, not even on same equipment, as each player has it's own style, there could be changed pick up's, different string's, different recording method (line or miked), effect's stompboxes whatever, which amp?., etc....

I will have a listen if I have time this week and post a guess!

Fred
_________________________
Keyboards/Sound Units: Kurzweil 2600S, Roland VR-760, Acces Virus C, Roland G-800, Akai AX60, Minimoog, Machine Drum, Roland R8-M, mediastation x-76

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#5827 - 02/09/03 11:44 PM Re: Please help me identify this type of guitar.
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6202
Loc: Ventura CA USA
As Fred mentioned pinning down the exact type of guitar used could be virtually impossible from listening to the recording.

But a guideline for non guitarists trying to identify guitar tones.

1) Crystalline clean tones and thinner distorted sounds are often a Fender Stratocaster or similar single pole pickup equipped guitar. Out of phase ie. quacky clean sounds are quite likely strat type guitars which have the 5 way pickup selector.

2) Chunkier & heavier clean and distorted sounds fall into the Gibson or similar humbucker ( dual coil pickups ) equipped guitars. Extreme heavy metal lead sounds are also in this category.

If you are looking for a particular sound sample set your choice will probably fall into the above 2 categories.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 02-09-2003).]

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#5828 - 02/11/03 10:38 PM Re: Please help me identify this type of guitar.
Anonymous
Unregistered


HOW CAN WE EXPLAIN A SOUND?

To any exacting measurement? Forget it. No way.
TECHNICALLY? NO, NOT REALLY:
You're hearing a lightbodied, thin to medium jazz chorus Riki based sound with minimum twin layer chorusing about effected to it that is light but noticably modulated (about 1-3 cents, pitch depth) with a linear fall rise rate completing the slewed chorusing cycle at about -1Hz. Hmm I don't think so.
Technically may approach the effects methods, but "a lightbodied, thin to medium jazz chorus Riki based sound" - that's rather coarse and vauge wouldn't you say?

Now if I told all that to a female guitarist, she'd slap me. A dude guitarist, he'd throw his drink in my face (well maybe just the ice LOL) But later after he got drunk enough he'd probably pee on me.
Even if the given guitarist was technically minded enough to know what I said, that still does not come close to pinpointing the sound. There are harmonic charts and spectral sound plotting methods, but it's so sureal and way involved; far too much for dealing with and better saved for it's intended purpose of alogrythms.

The closest, shortest and most understandable method is by utilizing pre-defined music itself in descriptions.
The basic template for that is...
From: {Pre-defined sound} of genre,artist,title,instrument / To: {Pre-defined sound} of genre,artist,title,instrument
EPU, Your sought sound might be similarly described as follows:
From: {Chorused Clear Guitar-thinner sound} of 80'sRock,Sting,"SOS",BGnd-2nd Guitar /
To: {Chorused Clear Guitar-thicker sound} of 80'sRock,Tom Petty,"Best Friend's Girl",2nd Guitar
This was a hands on thing taught to me when I was a producer's squaw. It helps the musician understand or "hear" hopefully in the neighborhood of the sound that is sought. It's exactly as accurate as the distance between the two pre-defined sounds that are given. It usually communicates a description good enough to put the musician on the same page as the person describing it.
They're right, you cant just pack it and ship it. The tracks you listed,5of6 use multilayer chorusing effects applied to the instrument's signal. We are dealing with multiple sets of infinite combinations.

If Roland Corp. had structured their Guitar C.O.S.M. method in any sort of understandably formulated way, it might be possible to finer that resolution, but they didn't.

Are there no areas among the pieces that you mentioned whereby you can sample a skeletal signal for a basis to start from? I heard some. It's just an idea. Depending on your final intentions of this sound, that method might be the premium choice, or could be a waste of time and effort and the worst thing toward your goal since sound samples have some serious limitations, even when near multiples are used.
If you know how to play the guitar and have a digital recording device I would go to Guitar Center, grab a Paul Reed Smith with a rear split/reverse coil pickup, a Rickenbacker, a stool, a set of headphones and take my chances on a Sholtz/Rockman Chamealion first. Next I would try Sony effects believe it or not if the Rockman preamp didn't grasp the sound. Once I got the exact sound, I'd bypass to retune, then go for it right out of the headphone jack and play what I am out to do in just about every way, position, and style I know, slow to fast. Just keep recording. They are cool with it as long as you put the gear all back where you got it from.

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#5829 - 02/12/03 12:39 AM Re: Please help me identify this type of guitar.
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6202
Loc: Ventura CA USA
I think we can safely assume that Epu is not a guitar player from his original question. I somehow don't think going into Guitar Center and picking up a $3000+ PRS is going to help him at all. Sure being able to play guitar is the best way to go, but Epu was looking for a sample set he could use with his keyboard/sampler setup.

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#5830 - 02/12/03 01:39 AM Re: Please help me identify this type of guitar.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Corrected. After re-reading his original post, it's safe concluding epu is not a guitarist. Maybe others could try it. Extra care needed handling new gear. I prefer PRS mainly for their great intonation setups from the mfg..

epu if you haave a hard time finding the sound let me know.
MORPH!

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#5831 - 02/12/03 04:36 AM Re: Please help me identify this type of guitar.
epu Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/00
Posts: 466
Well thanks for all of the insight, advice and suggestions. I've already located the sound on a "sample set" per se. I just told you all that Roland calls them clean guitars. Roland has them on their SC880 (Called Clean Guitar 1,2,etc.) and on their Country Collection Expansion Board (SRJV80-17).

The only problem is that I don't have anymore room for expansion slots on my Roland XP60, so installing the Country Expansion Board is not an option at the momment. I was looking for a sample CD for my Roland S760 to compensate. A sample CD would be a better solution anyway as I'd have 32MB to work with in my sampler.

All of this hunting around is making me tired however. I might just end up splurging for another JV module and the board.

The Infamous Epu.

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#5832 - 02/13/03 01:19 AM Re: Please help me identify this type of guitar.
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6202
Loc: Ventura CA USA
The clean guitar patches on all synth modules I've heard are almost always Fender Stratocaster samples. It was like I originally said, guitar samples will generally fall into the Fender or Gibson categories. Even if another guitar is used it will have either that single pole or humbucker sound.

I'm very sure that you can find a sample set that has Fender Strat sounds. In fact most guitar sample collections are bound to include some variations of the Fender Stratocaster. That will give you very much the same sound as the Roland clean guitar sounds.

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#5833 - 02/13/03 10:26 AM Re: Please help me identify this type of guitar.
freddynl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/17/99
Posts: 1150
Loc: netherlands
Saw, you mentionned Roland SC880.
This module is the same as which is used
on the Roland Arranger Keyboard G 1000.

As I do own a G 800 (which is a SC88) I can tell you that the clean guitars are Fender strat and the jazz guitar is Gibson ES175
(and yes I do own both guitars as well )

So basicly Nigel is wright that it is Fender and Gibson based sounds.
_________________________
Keyboards/Sound Units: Kurzweil 2600S, Roland VR-760, Acces Virus C, Roland G-800, Akai AX60, Minimoog, Machine Drum, Roland R8-M, mediastation x-76

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