Got chatting to a number of Arranger Keyoard players at our local club and the thought struck me that the vast majority of them were retired. Good players - life experience and all those positive things, but where are the younger people ?. Our local "Technics Music Academy" evenings seem to consist of pre-teen children and the retired. People in the interveening years are all doting parents, not players. Good arranger keyboards (KN7000 and the like) are generally too expensive to be given to children so where are the up-coming young adults ?. Are Technics, Yamaha and the ilk doing enough to make keyboard playing "sexy" to attract the next generation ?.

What does everyone else think ?

Keith

Hi Keith,

Here is my 2 cents worth and I don't mean to create a stir over it.

First I'm not retired and won't be for another 10 year or so. I'm 53. Though I understand you may be talking about the 18 to 30/40 group.

I believe technics is aiming the 2600 and even the PR54 in that direction since they have a lot more "modern styles" than say Big Band although I don't see a much New Age.

But I also think that if that group of people is already out there playing away they might not feel comfortable in this forum because as soon a the 2600 style became available for the KN7000 comments were made about how bad and useless these styles were. Any while everyone has a right to their opinion it does say right away that their may be more that is needed in common than just having and playing a certain keyboard.

As Dennis Miller says, "That's just my opinion, I may be wrong."

The Best
Heather

I think that is a good point,Heather. I think we have to remember that only a small percentage of the members post.Bebop gave a percent but I forgot it. So how can you tell then how old the musicians relly are ?

Bernie

To stir the pot a bit more - for the past 20 years or so we've bred a generation that demands to be entertained, and are unwilling or perhaps too darn lazy to entertain themselves. "I'm bored!" is the moan, and they won't or can't do anything about it. OK, they'll acquire basic computer skills such as surfing, emailing use chatrooms but won't work at anything like learning to play a musical instrument whether it be a violin, piano or GA keyboard - after all you have to maintain regular practice sessions to be even reasonably competent.

Perhaps the type of tuneless music they like doesn't lend itself to being played on a keyboard..

I don't think the price of instruments is much of a deterrent - the price of used keyboards is within the reach of most parents, and I can re-call a time when many less well off parents would buy an ancient acoustic piano and pay for lessons in the hope of producing a prodigy.

Peter

I'll take a different approach on this one ... I think many of the younger players are still full of the dreams of 'making it' and are willing to play their music in smokey dance clubs and bars, and since they're playing with others, don't need arranger kb's .... We more experienced (dare I say older??? ) players are looking to satisfy our egos and the 'ham' in us (and there's nothing wrong with that) and make a few bucks by playing in 'nicer' venues, and since the market often doesn't allow for more than one or two players, we are the arranger kb players...
Onthe subject of young players, I was watching the 'TODAY' show last week and saw this 'new star' by the name of Michael Buble ... He sings standards and jazz tunes and the songs of Sinatra, Van
Morrison (Moondance), Tony Bennet and the like. .... he had a 5 - 6 piece group with him and he said the average age of the group was about 22 years !!! .... So some of the young players are ito great music...
t.

"Music"? I call it rhythmic noise, but then I am probably just an old fogey, who firmly believes that music should consist of songs with more than four notes and a beat that is repeated over and over again! (I guess there are sometimes more than four notes when a singer takes one note and warbles it to death up and down the scale.)And who ever told these modern "singers" that they can sing? It sounds to me more like screaming, as they eat the microphone and shout out lyrics that don't rhyme and are too often obscene. Wow, maybe I am getting old! If I have offended the younger set on the Forum (if there are any of you), I apologize Hmmm, it seems to me my parents said the same thing to me and my generation when the Beetles and Elvis, etc. came on the scene. I guess times do change, musically as well as every other way!

Ted

Do any of you folks out there want to turn green with envy? Take a few hours and pry yourselves away from TV when not playing your board. Go over to the local collage or high school and listen to their Jazz band concerts. These kids will set you straight up in your seat and make your ears bleed. Great stuff! Makes me want to call all the guys from our former dance band and get together again. One problem! Most of them are dead and that is why my keyboard is so valuable to me. I think Tony has hit the nail right on the head. I am still playing all because of the arranger KB. I gave one of my boards to my grandson who wanted something in his dorm room to practice on. Why? Because some of the other guys had them to work on in private. I’ll just bet when they get to my age and maybe before, they will be jobbing like me when not playing in small groups. Ruth and me just went to another younger grandsons grade school concert last friday evening. They had to hold it in the local high school facilities because there was too many kids in the music program to accommodate all the parents. Guess what? The grade school had a Jazz band! Not bad. Not bad at all! The grandson who plays the sax like me can’t wait to qualify for it next year. Also gave him one of my former boards because he asked. From what I see there are more young kids into music than there was when I was a kid. Not only that, they seem to be more proficient for their age than when I was growing up. What kind of music do I hear them playing? Much of the same stuff I play and of course some newer also. Like when I was younger, there were the weirdoes and will always be. The Rap type for a better word. When us older guys wonder where the young players are, the answer many times is we ain’t where they are, not that there is less. If your not there how can you see them? One other thought before I windup. Now that’s strange! Can’t seem to remember what it was.

Merry Christmas, Grandpa Doug

Hi All,

All of you have had something meaningful to say on this issue. I really enjoy reading the opinions of our members. Like you, Ted, I believe 99% of pop music is a wasteland of unadulterated noise polluting our environment. On the other hand, like you, Doug, I have gone to my nephew's high school to listen to him play saxophone in a first class jazz band - and it was the junior band! The school has a senior band and my nephew will have to reach a predetermined standard before being accepted into the senior band. The music program at his school is outstanding and they don't play pop music. Those kids are serious musicians and good!

Pop music, whether we like it or not (and I don't obviously), is here to stay. I have a severly disabled son who attends a Day Center. I went to the Center today for their annual Christmas disco. The so-called music (read noise) was deafening and if it hadn't been for my son, I would have left after three minutes of that deafening din. But those disabled men and women who were able to dance loved it. So it has broad appeal and the success of the so-called "pop stars" is further evidence of that.

There are probably many reasons why we are not aware of the young people who are learning to play keyboards, but I'm sure they are out there. My music teacher is teaching youngsters to play keyboards, and I'll bet lots of young people are enrolled in the Technics and Yamaha Schools of Music around the world.

Merry Christmas to All Here at the Synth~Zone.

Chuck

Hiya Keith
It's a shame really...
You asked a very intelligent question about a very straightforward marketing matter called 'lifestyle positioning' - it's all to do with demographic profiling; but I don't think any of the major producers of keyboards employ or take notice of anyone with that knowledge or those skills.
Very simply either by intent or by chance public awareness of your company and its products will 'position' itself in their minds as being useful for one type of thing or another and therefore appropriate to one type of individual or another - if you know what you are doing from a marketing standpoint you deliberately set out, by dint of your public activities to create particular 'image dimensions' for your company or product.
One may ask as an example - what are Technics deliberately setting out to do so that the public perceives their newest product the KN2600 to be targeting a younger audience?
Roger M

A question asked by Keith, Quote: “Are Technics, Yamaha and the ilk doing enough to make keyboard playing "sexy" to attract the next generation”?.

If it takes sex to attract the next generation into playing a keyboard I think the next generation is in deep trouble. I personally think the goddess of sex has already got some of this generation screwed up and is sending a lot of the next generation into the toilet from what I can observe. The broken families, the divorce rate, the confused and unhappy children not to mention the drug consumption trying to mask the unhappiness of the mess. What’s next? A little porno on the big beautiful colored screen of the technics keyboard? Maybe a little divergent sex rap music under the demo button? Sometimes I’m glad I only got a few more years to see the morals of the world crumble. I’m not a prophet but sometimes I visualize God going to the bathroom and putting his big hand on the chain, getting ready to flush the stinking pot.

Personally I believe the great strides taken by technics in developing their newest keyboards is what is going to be the driving force for attracting more players to them. I was talking to Bob Frazer, from our local dealership the other day. He said he doesn’t know where all the people are coming from to buy the 7000. Like there coming out of the woodwork, so to speak. Good thing some of the others are trying to keep up. Even Yamaha is improving some of their rhythms and trying to make their voices more realistic. Even their OS has improved to a point. I believe the success of keyboards lies in their coming into their own by great strides of improvement and not by becoming more sexy!

Just a few thoughts from an old guy that’s been around. Go ahead! Let me have it. Am I all wet? Tell me.

Grandpa Doug
And again, Merry Christmas to all!

Hey Grandpa - you're not all wet you're allwight (scuse the pun)...
Trouble is words/phrases like 'sexed up' and 'gay' mean different things in different contexts these days....come to think of it they also mean different things in different countries.
Take the word 'spin' which is extensively used by the media in the UK to mean manipulating the truth - I always thought it meant to twirl around. (one's little finger perhaps)
Shorthand language is always going to create misunderstandings and I am sure Keith did not mean sexy as in bedroom activities.
Nevertheless, standards are continually falling and some group or other needs to exercise their minds about this for the benefit of the whole human race...
Marketing is something else entirely.
Best wishes for Xmas and a happy new year.
Roger M

Merry Christmas, everyone! When you wonder what the younger generation thinks of music, try to remember how it was when you were that age, then look around. Go sit in on a church's worship team practice, or if they have one for younger members, even better. You have kids that can't read a note of music that are willing and eager to get into music, but lack the finances for instruments, especially expensive keyboards. Bring in a bunch of instruments and watch the fun begin. The kids will sort out what they want to learn to play, even if it's a lowly tamborine, then it's a long, slow learning process. Most kids just don't have the money, and their family finances usually won't support their yearnings either, so like most of us when we were growing up, we just had to wait until we could afford something. Usually, that means later on in life after the kids are grown up and not such a drain of the pocketbook. But, they certainly are out there and no matter what their musical inclination might be, it's the love of music that binds us all together in one very loud, and hopefully, musical group. So keep on playing and I guarantee you, someone will always stop to listen!

Hi Bud,

You said, "You have kids that can't read a note of music that are willing and eager to get into music . . ." How true! I mentioned in my post above that I have a disabled son. About two years ago a music program was introduced at my son's Day Center. A young lady brought a KN5000 keyboard and all sorts of percussion instruments (tamborines, bongos, triangles, maracas etc.) and worked with the folks at the Center. That young lady has dedicated herself to teaching the folks how to use the instruments and to play them on the beat. A remarkable achievement! Some of the folks do their best to sing a song. It is so heartwarming to attend one of their periodic music presentations and see what they have achieved. They love playing the instruments and love the music. It is often said that music is an international language and it is. It is also a language the disabled can understand and appreciate. Yes Bud, you are right. Even those who cannot read a note of music can play and enjoy.

Chuck

Chuck, my son is multi-handicapped and enjoys music, also. Some years ago I used to sit him on the bench at our Lowery organ and let him have at it. It was a slow learning process, but he kept trying until he figured out how to play songs with only small pauses while changing chords. He only has the use of his right arm, so everything had to be done on a slower scale. It was something he took great delight in doing, and we were amazed at how well he actually did. Those days are gone now, and tv is his main interest now, but he still likes to listen to music. We sometimes take him to the practice sessions for the church youth worship team and they let him tap a bongo while they're playing, so everyone has a good time. The kids there are eager to play and if we had a sax, drums, and a banjo, we would have even more learners, but unfortunately, no teachers. I can help with guitar, bass, and keyboards, but stick a drumstick in my hand and I'll try to eat it. I know this is a little off the thread, but what the hey, it's the holiday season!

Hi,
I must admit I've always been a tad dissapointed that my 2 sons showed absolutely no interest in playing music.
There'd always been a piano in the home since before they were born.
Had a piano teacher come to the home to give them lessons when they were about 7 & 10, eventually gave up when we used to have to coax the 7 year old ( in tears) out from under the baby grand. They both just hated playing, and I wasn't going to force lessons on them.

By the time they reached their teens I'd discovered a whole new world of music
" synthesizers & computer sequencers " the type of equipment the rock bands were using.
The sons musical friends wanted me to adopt them ( haahaa) they were fascinated by it all. The younger son decided he'd like to learn guitar so he could play in a band with the rest of his friends (unlike me, he could actually play by ear) Again, it didn't last long. The boys had a falling out, the guitar ended up in the cupboard.

I tend to think an interest in playing music has got to come from within one's self. The boys both love music. They enjoy music ranging from the 60's ( way before they were born) right through to modern day Dance music. The younger one even enjoys 40's swing music. But as to wanting to actually play it, the answer is NO.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Rikki and Bud,

Rikki, you're so right when you say playing music has to come from within one's self. I think that is true for everyone with any hobby. I am a sportsman. I love sports of all types. My two younger sons have no interest in sports at all. I tried to get them interested in various sports when they were growing up, all to no avail. Bud, I wish my son had an interest in television, but he doesn't. In addition to having a severe learning disability, he is also autistic and an insulin-dependent diabetic. Yet, he loves music. When we are riding along in the car he won't let me fiddle with the CD player or the radio. His favorite song is "Downtown", recorded by Petula Clark, I believe. When I play that song for him his face just lights up. Like you, Bud, I know this is off topic more or less but it is good to share.

You two take care.

Again, MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL MY FORUM FRIENDS!

Chuck

Hi,
talk about a dreamer. Hubby mentioned he might take up guitar. So I dashed out and bought him one last xmas along with a "How to Play Guitar Video". The guitar lasted as long as it took to get the jolly thing tuned.
I had grand visions of playing duets ( haahaa).
I'd been trying to get him interested in some sort of a hobby for years and when the words "guitar" cropped up, I couldn't help myself.
He used to love his sport,too, Aussie Rules Football, cricket, mad keen golfer but unfortunately a building accident nearly 30 years ago left him a parapalegic and confined to a wheel chair.
Fortunately he enjoys his work ( he went back to building, but only supervises nowadays) On weekends he enjoys pottering round the garden and loves mowing the lawns
( he has a ride on lawn mower) It's fortunate for me he enjoys the gardening , because I hate it.
Week nights he watches tv. I suppose when he retires he'll find himself a hobby, if not, we'll have to buy an acreage with lawns so he can mow , mow , mow.( haahaa)
Might get him a Harmonica next, might master that more quickly than a guitar???(forever hopeful)

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chuck Piper:
[B]Hi Rikki and Bud,

Thanks to everyone for their responses on this one. Sorry about the misunderstanding on the term "sexy". It was, as Roger pointed out, only intended to convey a meaning of general desirability of an activity or product, not the more anatomical variety. I have worked on projects with people from the USA for many years now and its always disconverting when you find a term, or expression that you thought would have the same meaning on the other side of the "pond" causing confusion, or worse offence. I made the mistake of saying that a smoking colleague was "popping out for a fag" in front of some state-side visitors a while back. Aparently it means something else entirely in America. ( A "fag" is a slang English term for a cigarette ). On the musical question, you are right, there is so much musical talent and enthusiasm amongst yougsters, but its difficult to harness it. State schools are always short of cash and musical instruments are expensive. The brass band I play for has a junior section and we teach the basics of music for a very small fee to any youngster who wants to learn. The problem is that Brass Band music is very "un-cool" these days ( apologies for the slang, but I hope you know what I mean ) and we have great difficulty attracting and retaining the youngsters. Playing in a band also teaches some other good things like behaving yourself, playing in harmony and working with a team. The kids we have are great, but with a few exceptions the parents couldn't care less and treat us like a cheap baby-sitting service.

Any-way thats my Xmas rant over and done with.

May I wish you all out there a great Christmas and, in these current turbulent times, a peaceful New Year

Keith

Keith, we used the term "fag" to describe cigarettes, too. But that was in Michigan back in the early fifties.

Hiya Keith
We better keep this subject going as it's collected a 'flame' as a popular subject...
And we better come clean and admit that we both help run the same Technics Keyboard Club in North Wiltshire in England, as you say mostly populated by elderly gentlemen every fortnight.
Now I wonder if Technics (who surely read this stuff) would be interested in a cost free marketing experiment to see whether we/they can really interest younger folk to learn to play the KN2600 model if as you say it is designed with a younger audience in mind.
Please Technics - if you are listening in - e-mail me and we'll take it from there...Keith and I live not far from your Berkshire HQ.
Roger M

Music really is one of those thing that for some playing is a passion even if they are not really good at it and for some it may come and go.

Over the years I've been involved with different angles of music. I've written some(not great), I've recorded some(not big), I've played Guitar(not well), I was a sound engineer for a live christain group and a mobile DJ, yet I've never wanted to be a "PRO".
My partner played Trumpet in High School, has 3 guitars right now and tried in the 70's to sell her music in Nashville. Yet today she seldom plays anything. She just bought an Electric/Acoustic Ovation in the hopes that it would rekindle her music spirit and she's played with it maybe twice.

I learned to play piano from my oldest brother in the 60's and now he can't play at all.

I think it's just something that in you and once you find the area you enjoy you stay with it or you just give it up.

The biggest problem with the Kid playing today is that they want the same kind of instruments they see in the groups they listen to (come to think of it so did I back then) but they have the disposal income to purchase them. And groups don't play KNs.

Heather

Heather