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#506208 - 07/16/22 02:29 PM Re: Why do you need to buy a NEW arranger keyboard? [Re: travlin'easy]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Every single (individual) keystroke played by a professional pianist is different. Might be subtle but the touch/aftertouch (key velocity, sustain (how long you hold the key down, etc.) on every note is going to be different. It would take a billion-core supercomputer operating at warp speed to handle the calculations necessary to duplicate this function (easily handled by the average human brain....except drummers smile ). You may get something approaching a human-derived 'groove' but you're never going to 'nail it'. JMO. Oh, and by the way, there's a BIG difference between "slop" and groove.


Edited by cgiles (07/16/22 02:30 PM)
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

#506209 - 07/16/22 03:24 PM Re: Why do you need to buy a NEW arranger keyboard? [Re: Diki]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2443
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
The Humanize function on the old CR80 was pretty simple and being just a drum machine it just did drums. I don't remember using it much but at least it was something. Nothing like what yo program. My variations came from me playing with both hands and my foot on the bass pedals, now that was random ! I actually miss that style of playing as I felt more connected to the music but things change.
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

#506210 - 07/16/22 09:00 PM Re: Why do you need to buy a NEW arranger keyboard? [Re: travlin'easy]
Diki Offline

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
Chas, ‘groove quantize’ was primarily a drum track thing. Sustain wasn’t an issue, nor note choice etc.. and some of the grooves were derived from four to eight bar phrases played by actual drummers (I had some Steve Gadd and Clive Stubblefield grooves that were pretty good). Yes, you never get the variability of true human drumming, but it was a quantum leap over single bar hard quantize values.

At some point the line blurs between simply human playing and deliberately bad randomization routines. I’ve been faced with both sides of the situation, and in truth, I’d rather put up with a great drummer’s groove that repeats every eight bars or so rather than simple randomization with no regard to groove at all.

And while a great drummer is never totally perfect, the real greats had tendencies towards quantifiable things they did that were definitely recognizable and repeatable. It’s how we actually recognize their playing. Randomness would leave no imprint. They do certain things with the groove that are recognizable, and with analysis can be reproduced to a degree. Me, I’d rather have at least SOME feel if not perfect than simply throwing up the hands and saying ‘it can’t be done’…

One thing that progress always shows us is that, while we will almost certainly achieve perfect humanness, every generation of technology gets us closer. When used. The hard job is persuading people that it’s worth the effort. That’s in pretty short supply!
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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