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#505419 - 04/10/22 02:51 AM Why do arranger players suck to pros?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5336
Loc: English Riviera, UK
A good player will get the best out of their instrument no matter what it is; however there is no reason for a keyboard player to emulate the same as a Sax player etc. as its palette is much greater, (Unless all you want to do is recreate a specific instrument) so you can create your own sound and be individual, (Rather than sounding the same as every other Tom, Dick & Harry out there) so make your own sound (That’s what professional keyboard players do) and become unique rather than trying to make your keyboard sound like something it isn’t. (In the old days you could recognise a player by his style (No matter what keyboard he was playing) but these days with arrangers those that know a small amount about arrangers just say oh that’s a Yamaha or that’s a Korg, with the player being an irrelevance)

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#505421 - 04/10/22 06:37 AM Re: Why do arranger players suck to pros? [Re: abacus]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3206
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Did Chas pour some salt into your tea? Or perhaps the children in your neighborhood were playing cricket on your lawn?

Of course, I’m kidding, and basically agree with you. Read my signature.
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It not the keyboard, it's the keyboardist.

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#505423 - 04/10/22 07:28 AM Re: Why do arranger players suck to pros? [Re: abacus]
cgiles Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6690
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
I sort of agree but if you can play something pretty or pleasing to your own sensibilities using a simulated acoustic instrument voice, then why not? In the balance between 'pretty' and 'authentic', for me the arc swings towards 'pretty' (IMO). Part of a good performance is choosing the right voice for the situation. In many cases, it determines HOW the piece is played. As much as a bagpipe grates on my nerves, it still seems oddly appropriate for a hero cop's funeral. Again, JMO, to each his own.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#505429 - 04/10/22 08:13 PM Re: Why do arranger players suck to pros? [Re: abacus]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14173
Loc: NW Florida
I’d like to meet ONE pro that had anything bad to say about arrangers. I’ve never met one. EVER.

Maybe what sucks isn’t the arranger?

I’ve taken arrangers to first call sessions, and played with live bands for 30 years. Never ever had one ‘pro’ put them down. They just say ‘That sounds good. What is it?’, and I say ‘A Roland G70, BK9 (whatever)’ and they go ‘Never heard of it. Sounds cool’ and we get on with business.

You know what I don’t EVER do? I don’t ever play the auto accompaniment to a ‘pro’. A) they can tell how much it sucks (hate to burst anyone’s bubble, but to a pro no auto accompaniment is worth a damn compared to a real band of pros!) and B) I don’t want him to think I’m gunning for his, or anyone else’s job.

THAT’S what pros hate. You, taking their job with an inferior machine.

So, if you want a ‘pro’ to like your arranger, don’t use it as an arranger!
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#505443 - 04/11/22 09:06 AM Re: Why do arranger players suck to pros? [Re: abacus]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3206
Loc: Dallas, Texas
I think there's a time and place for auto-accompaniment in a professional situation. Playing for a discerning audience of music
of music lovers at a venue like Carnegie Hall is different from playing background music at a bar or entertaining the elderly folks at a senior center. All could be paid performances which would make the performer a "professional" but each type of performance has different skill set levels and could require different tools to get the job done.
_________________________
It not the keyboard, it's the keyboardist.

www.youtube.com/channel/UCV94i--V-A8kZShmGTKyDOw

https://www.facebook.com/elgrupocache

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#505447 - 04/11/22 01:14 PM Re: Why do arranger players suck to pros? [Re: abacus]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15549
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Ditto!
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#505450 - 04/11/22 03:23 PM Re: Why do arranger players suck to pros? [Re: abacus]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14173
Loc: NW Florida
I’d still like to hear about a ‘pro’ that bothered to come up and give an earful to an arranger player…

Or is this just some apocryphal thing that never really happened but arranger players like to pretend did so they can feel defensive about an instrument that, when used in auto-accompaniment mode is a pale shadow of what real musicians can accomplish?

C’mon, folks. ‘Fess up. Honestly, has ANYONE ever come up to you and criticized your arranger?

I can quite honestly say no-one ever did to me. To be quite honest, no REAL ‘pro’ would bother. If he hated the performance, it would have next to nothing to do with the type of keyboard used, and only a complete douchebag would come up and tell you he hated you (or the keyboard!).

How about we put this urban legend to rest?

Pros don’t hate arrangers.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#505455 - 04/11/22 04:33 PM Re: Why do arranger players suck to pros? [Re: Diki]
cgiles Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6690
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By Diki

Pros don’t hate arrangers.


They don't take them seriously either (those handful that even know what an arranger is).

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#505456 - 04/12/22 07:11 AM Re: Why do arranger players suck to pros? [Re: abacus]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14173
Loc: NW Florida
This pro takes them seriously! 😂

Sure, I doubt I could get away in a studio with one being my ONLY keyboard but if I am having to lay down the entire track mostly, I wouldn’t go in without one.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#505461 - 04/12/22 09:41 AM Re: Why do arranger players suck to pros? [Re: abacus]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15549
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Define PRO!

Here's what Google produced: When can you call yourself a professional musician?
On a basic level, you're a professional if you get paid. You're a hobbyist if you operate on an amateur level.Oct 1, 2020

A professional musician is one who plays an instrument or several instruments proficiently; performing is their primary source of income.Jun 22, 2017

Gary cool


Edited by travlin'easy (04/12/22 09:42 AM)
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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