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#499052 - 06/19/20 02:31 PM DAW vs Keyboard
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
I spent most of the day, testing procedures to complete projects.. DAW vs G70.

Combination of the two is excellent, any project can be done ,,, even with video.

Individually, is another matter..

Every project I did today with just the DAW (G70 used only to input note on/off midi data),

Took forever, and fine tuning a pain in the neck. After I completed a project in a DAW,

I did the same project with only the G70.. Time wise DAW projects were 10 times longer than the G70.

I even used short cuts with the DAW (audio loops to finish the project).

The last project I tested....I wrote a 4 layer patch. A blend of Acoustic piano/ Rhodes/ and string pad

The LA piano sound. I also wrote a manual bass to switch to when needed.

It took literary more than half an hour to set this combo with VST's (Split and layered).

Less than a minute on the G70 (including fine tuning the tones and EQ, and effects).

I had to go back and correct some things on the DAW project and add effects (another ten minutes).

Now it was time to locate and place in the DAW the tracks.. drums bass, guitar etc, also a drum fill in
spots.. also tried to have a proper ending with drums and bass.
this project took about another 45 minutes.

Mixdown and mixing another 10 minutes. .By the time it was completed it took over two hours.

Using just the G70,After I wrote my layered tone patch, I selected a style, edited the sounds
(make up tools), performed it and captured as a midi file..
I also did two more accent tracks as my intro and ending. Total time was about ten minutes.

I recorded it as a wav on my Tascam DR-07.

The quality of the projects were far better with the G70 over the DAW.

After today, I think I will scratch the path I was thinking, buying a high end laptop
and using Roland cloud subscription for my VST's. There still is advantage with multi track
recording (over dubs).. but for putting together sounds and a performance (midi).. No contest.

G70 will be my tool of choice.. PS: I already knew this going into todays testing..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#499057 - 06/19/20 03:55 PM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
TedS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 805
Loc: North Texas, USA
Fran you won't get any argument from me. I don't do anything with audio, VST's etc. Not even vocals (for now.) So 90% of the doodads on the screen in Ableton, FL Studio, etc., are just an irrelevant nuisance. To me MIDI is still king, and that makes XG Works or just using the on-board sequencer a better choice.

If someone made a fairly simple MIDI sequencer GUI app for PC I could be tempted to change my tune (pun intended.) Maybe I'm a dinosaur but for my modest needs every DAW i tried was pure frustration. Open to suggestions.


Edited by TedS (06/19/20 03:57 PM)

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#499065 - 06/20/20 01:59 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: TedS]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By TedS
Fran you won't get any argument from me. I don't do anything with audio, VST's etc. Not even vocals (for now.) So 90% of the doodads on the screen in Ableton, FL Studio, etc., are just an irrelevant nuisance. To me MIDI is still king, and that makes XG Works or just using the on-board sequencer a better choice.

If someone made a fairly simple MIDI sequencer GUI app for PC I could be tempted to change my tune (pun intended.) Maybe I'm a dinosaur but for my modest needs every DAW i tried was pure frustration. Open to suggestions.


A VST is no different to using an XG sound-set via XG works as they are both controlled by Midi, either by you playing the notes on the keyboard or via a sequencer.

Yes you can do audio in a DAW but you don’t have too.

If you just want to use VSTs without any extras (Like XG Works) just use a stand-alone VST Host such as Cantabile Lite

There also plenty of basic Midi sequencers out there just do a google search.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#499067 - 06/20/20 04:45 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: abacus]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Vist and Daw can add to the sound --- I have no knowledge of either.

I enjoy using my time in what the keyboard offers. Not that it is better, but my choice is to use my time to create what is in me, the things I hear; how I can create my version of the song I am playing.
In my younger days I used Cakewalk – Sonar. Time changed many things.

John C.

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#499077 - 06/20/20 06:15 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Actually they work very well together..

If you want to edit or create midi or audio in any form, use your daw..
And then import it in your arranger keyboard workstation..

So much more pleasant and lots faster then using the tools inside a keyboard..



Your experience is probably based on the fact that you know the G70 inside and out, and the daw of choice not so well? Just spend more time on the right daw and you will get fluent in it...


Now, i can hear you think, the right daw?
Is there any difference?

Well, just dont try being creative on a daw like pro tools..
Its mostly build around mastering a final mix..

For simple midi and audio recordings, logic pro x is the way to go, for its lightning fast workflow..


Same for when you want to use VST’s as expansion to your keyboards
Dont use an expansive daw, but choose a simple VST host..


Each of them shines in certain aspects, while its out of place in others..


Edited by Bachus (06/20/20 06:23 AM)
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#499086 - 06/20/20 07:43 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Bachus]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Bachus have you tried to use Mixcraft 9pro DAW..?

I tried Logic pro X and wasn't impressed..

https://acoustica.com/mixcraft



Edited by Dnj (06/20/20 08:02 AM)

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#499087 - 06/20/20 07:45 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
I don’t know Fran.., I have zero issues with efficiency using a DAW vs a keyboards onboard sequencer. I find the DAW to be considerably faster in the workflow. One very important advantage of the DAW is keyboard shortcuts. I can complete a drum track in less than half the time it takes on an arranger (and workstation) because of keyboard shortcuts. Also the flexibility in moving entire clips of data, something that greatly speeds up workflow.

A lot of it honestly falls down to how well you know your DAW, and the VST’s you’re using. The ability to run dual screens can’t be overlooked either. Having your main workspace on one with the Mixer set to full screen on the other (with a midi controller loaded with assignable knobs and faders).., well that’s just a little chunk of heaven right there.
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#499088 - 06/20/20 07:54 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: squeak_D]
jingleman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 1292
Loc: The Villages, FL, USA
Squeak is right. But, it appears he is using his daw enough to be completely secure with it’s features.

There in lies the problem. Today’s daws are so sophisticated, that if you don’t use them consistently...you tend to forget those features.

I for one use Cubase 10.5 and Mixcraft 9. If I don’t use either for a few weeks...it’s like starting all over. Maybe it’s my aging grey matter smile

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#499089 - 06/20/20 07:55 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Hey Dan,, If you look closer to the things I compared, I think you will see the G70 was faster.. Writing a sound program, adding effects , capturing a style performance via midi capture (way faster), adding and editing sound parameters and sequence data... and never touching a mouse.. smile
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#499091 - 06/20/20 08:11 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Originally Posted By Fran Carango
Hey Dan,, If you look closer to the things I compared, I think you will see the G70 was faster.. Writing a sound program, adding effects , capturing a style performance via midi capture (way faster), adding and editing sound parameters and sequence data... and never touching a mouse.. smile


That’s my point though Fran, and that is there doesn’t have to be a lot of mouse clicking either. Mapping controls isn’t just for the DAW. Many VST’s allow you to map controls to them as well. I can can open and close a VST, adjust parameters (including effects), and not touch the mouse. It’s like I said, it falls down to how well you know the DAW you’re using and the VST’s you have. Also.., many synth/workstations have preset templates built in for popular DAWS. My MOXF is a great example.

Sqk
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#499092 - 06/20/20 09:12 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Once you get used to Logic ... almost everything else looks like DOS. Studio ONE is a close second as far as GUI goes. When I was teaching I started all my kids on garage band and graduated them to logic and reason
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#499097 - 06/20/20 10:34 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
The problem with Logic is that you need a Mac, if you haven’t got one it gets very expensive as you have to buy the Mac first.

There are many free DAWs out there that operate similar to the paid for DAWs so best to try a few to see which you get on with best, (They may be all you need) then if you want to go further and get a paid for DAW, get one that operates similar to what you prefer. (There is no one size fits all)

Mappings for all the controllers out there is pretty comprehensive these days, so in many cases it’s just a matter of selecting the right one from a menu and everything is set up for you. (Unlike the old days)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#499098 - 06/20/20 10:39 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Uncle Dave]
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Logic is amazing! If I had a Mac that’s all I’d be using. A lot of hype about ProTools, I can’t stand the program. My two main are Cakewalk (by BandLab.., which is essentially what Sonar) should have been, MixCraft 9 Pro, and Ableton every so often. I’ve been telling people that Cakewalk has got to be one of the best things going out there right now because you get a fully featured DAW.., and it’s FREE. Some of the VST’s that come with it are quite good too.., such as SI Drums, and SI String Ensemble. There are a lot free “good” sounding VST’s too if you don’t want to spend a lot of money. Two good example are Ample Guitar and Ample Bass free versions. Download those, and I guarantee the first question you ask is “how in the hell are these free?!?!” Spitfire Audio has LABS, they’re FREE and sound really good. There’s a bunch out there. You can piece together a nice list of free VST’s.., use Cakewalk, and not spend a penny.

Sqk


Edited by squeak_D (06/20/20 11:03 AM)
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#499101 - 06/20/20 11:16 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: squeak_D]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By squeak_D
Originally Posted By Fran Carango
Hey Dan,, If you look closer to the things I compared, I think you will see the G70 was faster.. Writing a sound program, adding effects , capturing a style performance via midi capture (way faster), adding and editing sound parameters and sequence data... and never touching a mouse.. smile


That’s my point though Fran, and that is there doesn’t have to be a lot of mouse clicking either. Mapping controls isn’t just for the DAW. Many VST’s allow you to map controls to them as well. I can can open and close a VST, adjust parameters (including effects), and not touch the mouse. It’s like I said, it falls down to how well you know the DAW you’re using and the VST’s you have. Also.., many synth/workstations have preset templates built in for popular DAWS. My MOXF is a great example.

Sqk








Dan, I also have Ableton, New Cakewalk, and MixCraft9 pro studio..
I also have VIP and have used a lot of good controllers, the last being Code61.

Bang for the buck goes beyond free, MixCraft VST packages make it the bang for the buck winner to me.

I stand by every detail I mentioned.. none of the DAWS I have are a match for work flow against a keyboard like the G70.. For sound design, layout of quick ideas, and over all speed.. They named a DAW correctly Digital audio workstation..

In the MIDI area.. flow wise no contest..

Audio is a different story, that is the point of a DAW.

Fussing and setting up an elaborate controller is a pain, and no you can not depend on factory templates. VIP turned out to be a total nightmare..


The way to use a DAW for me... is to do everything on my G70 (midi wise, and send it to MixCraft or record into MixCraft. Then add audio, VST's, or video to the project..

This method is by far the best..


Dan when are you coming to the old neighborhood for a visit? Any of your family still here? Almost twenty years, I guess your daughter is all grown up... and you are getting to be an "old man" smile
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#499103 - 06/20/20 11:33 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
It just falls down to individuals needs in terms of workflow. MixCraft is great, but I honestly think its benefits in terms of included VST’s is in the synth category. The bread and butter presets are decent. Pianissimo is also a decent one too. When it comes to assigning controllers (for me) it’s very quick. Many of the VST’s out there have a quick midi learn feature that’s fast to set up.

I am getting closer to an old man now Fran. My oldest just graduated high school, and is heading to college. I’ve actually got two kids that graduated and going to college. We have six kids now. Five of them are adopted. Been a long time since I’ve been to Levittown. I often wonder what my grandparents house looks like today. I think it’s on Primrose.., and yes.., a lot of my family is still there.

Sqk


Edited by squeak_D (06/20/20 11:37 AM)
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#499105 - 06/20/20 11:45 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: squeak_D]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Primrose Lane hasn't changed much... younger folks.. What was the house number I will send you a pic..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#499107 - 06/20/20 11:53 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
53 Primrose. I miss going there. The school was right around the corner and we always went there to play. Do you want me to send you my cell # via PM Fran? Thanks for the offer too. I know my seven siblings would love to see the place again.

Sqk
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#499113 - 06/20/20 12:16 PM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: squeak_D]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By squeak_D
53 Primrose. I miss going there. The school was right around the corner and we always went there to play. Do you want me to send you my cell # via PM Fran? Thanks for the offer too. I know my seven siblings would love to see the place again.

Sqk



Sure, then I can text you 53 Primrose Lane pic smile
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#499117 - 06/20/20 12:56 PM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: abacus]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Originally Posted By abacus
The problem with Logic is that you need a Mac,


You mean the ADVANTAGE of Logic is that you GET to use a MAC. Best of both worlds for many.
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#499119 - 06/20/20 01:17 PM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Uncle Dave]
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
Originally Posted By abacus
The problem with Logic is that you need a Mac,


You mean the ADVANTAGE of Logic is that you GET to use a MAC. Best of both worlds for many.


Exactly!
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#499133 - 06/20/20 08:30 PM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
Steve A Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 388
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
I don't like clicking a mouse when recording, & I also like FADERS. And when I get a routine down that works, I stick with it

I track basic tracks on the Arranger. Sync it VIA MIDI to my TASCAM DP24. Lay additional tracks. Cut VOX etc

MIX on DAW...I have yet to record on DAW, though I have PRO TOOLS & STUDIO ONE...I even bought the FADERPORT 16 hoping to use that, but haven't...

It may take longer, but I get my desired result...I love a Hard Disk Recorder over DAW all day long...But ya gotta mix on DAW if you wanna automate

_________________________
Steve A http://www.stevealtonian.com
Korg Pa4x 76...TASCAM DP24 & DP24 SD. Studio One 6 Professional with a FADER PORT 16. 1969 Yamaha FG-300 Yamaha Red Label Nippon Gakki. Breedlove American CME 25. Neumann TLM-49

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#499138 - 06/21/20 01:03 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Steve A]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By Steve A
I don't like clicking a mouse when recording, & I also like FADERS. And when I get a routine down that works, I stick with it

I track basic tracks on the Arranger. Sync it VIA MIDI to my TASCAM DP24. Lay additional tracks. Cut VOX etc

MIX on DAW...I have yet to record on DAW, though I have PRO TOOLS & STUDIO ONE...I even bought the FADERPORT 16 hoping to use that, but haven't...

It may take longer, but I get my desired result...I love a Hard Disk Recorder over DAW all day long...But ya gotta mix on DAW if you wanna automate



Have a look at Korg’s nanoKONTROL Studio or their other Kontrollers if you don’t want to use a mouse. https://www.korg.com/uk/products/computergear/nanokontrol_studio/

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#499856 - 07/10/20 10:40 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: abacus]
KN_Fan Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 492
I downloaded Cakewalk a couple days ago thinking, yeah this is a good way for me 'to get started' after not actively playing music for..ooh about nine years. BIG MISTAKE. Yeah, after lots of frustration, wondering why I couldn't even get the damn 'play' button working (on the demo project), getting conflicting advice from people ("Don't install Asio".."Oh you DO need Asio", oh just get the Focusrite driver there, etc) even after I managed to have somebody help installing the ASIO4all, I still couldn't get that thing working. So after Uninstalling it from my computer just now, I feel better..and wondering, maybe trying to accept that I've been away from this game for too long. Some people are keyboardist, some are software users/Daw Producers...I probably have to just accept I am not the latter. Like I told somebody today, I just want to spend 80% of my time playing/recording, 20% tweaking (percentage may change)...and not 60% trying to figure out software, 30% wondering why certain things don't work, and maybe 10% of actual playing. Sorry if I sound sour, definitely it has been a frustrating 48 hours. Somebody I met at a studio today suggested (and helped a little bit) Studio One..although yes it looks a bit simpler than Cakewalk (and seemed more intuitive), maybe I missed something but the free version doesn't have even the most basic sound plug-ins...and adding to the injury, I couldn't even get the Tyros hooked up to the computer. Could be the cable issue, or again I miss something in the set up (and as always, the owners manual didn't explain squat)...and this, I haven't even get to the Focusrite yet! (two weeks loan from the store).

And all I wanted was an easy recording from my keyboard...

Pardon me for hijacking the thread, I've been really frustrated since yesterday!

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#499863 - 07/10/20 03:14 PM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: KN_Fan]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By KN_Fan
I downloaded Cakewalk a couple days ago thinking, yeah this is a good way for me 'to get started' after not actively playing music for..ooh about nine years. BIG MISTAKE. Yeah, after lots of frustration, wondering why I couldn't even get the damn 'play' button working (on the demo project), getting conflicting advice from people ("Don't install Asio".."Oh you DO need Asio", oh just get the Focusrite driver there, etc) even after I managed to have somebody help installing the ASIO4all, I still couldn't get that thing working. So after Uninstalling it from my computer just now, I feel better..and wondering, maybe trying to accept that I've been away from this game for too long. Some people are keyboardist, some are software users/Daw Producers...I probably have to just accept I am not the latter. Like I told somebody today, I just want to spend 80% of my time playing/recording, 20% tweaking (percentage may change)...and not 60% trying to figure out software, 30% wondering why certain things don't work, and maybe 10% of actual playing. Sorry if I sound sour, definitely it has been a frustrating 48 hours. Somebody I met at a studio today suggested (and helped a little bit) Studio One..although yes it looks a bit simpler than Cakewalk (and seemed more intuitive), maybe I missed something but the free version doesn't have even the most basic sound plug-ins...and adding to the injury, I couldn't even get the Tyros hooked up to the computer. Could be the cable issue, or again I miss something in the set up (and as always, the owners manual didn't explain squat)...and this, I haven't even get to the Focusrite yet! (two weeks loan from the store).

And all I wanted was an easy recording from my keyboard...

Pardon me for hijacking the thread, I've been really frustrated since yesterday!


Have a read of this https://www.tweakheadz.com/how_to_get_started_with_midi.html and you should be able to get things up and running.

Have fun

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#499867 - 07/10/20 06:19 PM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: abacus]
KN_Fan Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 492
Thanks Bill. I do have an idea how MIDI works since I was in a studio, involved in a few projects myself although it was many years ago. The link is ver basic for someone who is fresh brand new into MIDI while i think my problem was more about wether a midi to usb cable really works, tyros midi set up, and possible windows issues as usual..

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#499869 - 07/10/20 09:41 PM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: KN_Fan]
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
What are your computer specs? Will you be recording audio into Cakewalk, or just plan on using VST’s? Cakewalk is pretty straight forward IMO. If you have a computer with an i5 or i7, 8 gigs of RAM (or more), you shouldn’t have a problem setting up Cakewalk. If you’re doing strictly VST work, you don’t need an audio interface, as you can simply use your internal sound card. Cakewalk seems daunting just looking at it, but it’s actually very easy to use.

If you want simplicity, MixCraft is probably the easiest DAW to use on a Windows system. If you find Cakewalk to be a bit overwhelming, then I’d also suggest not using Pro Tools either. Studio One is also good, but again for ease of use, MixCraft is probably the best option. It’s not free, but the standard version is less than $80, and you get quite a lot with it. Plus, you can use the SI Instruments that come with Cakewalk in MixCraft too.

Sqk
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#499870 - 07/10/20 11:07 PM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: squeak_D]
KN_Fan Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 492
Originally Posted By squeak_D
What are your computer specs? Will you be recording audio into Cakewalk, or just plan on using VST’s? Cakewalk is pretty straight forward IMO. If you have a computer with an i5 or i7, 8 gigs of RAM (or more), you shouldn’t have a problem setting up Cakewalk. If you’re doing strictly VST work, you don’t need an audio interface, as you can simply use your internal sound card. Cakewalk seems daunting just looking at it, but it’s actually very easy to use.

If you want simplicity, MixCraft is probably the easiest DAW to use on a Windows system. If you find Cakewalk to be a bit overwhelming, then I’d also suggest not using Pro Tools either. Studio One is also good, but again for ease of use, MixCraft is probably the best option. It’s not free, but the standard version is less than $80, and you get quite a lot with it. Plus, you can use the SI Instruments that come with Cakewalk in MixCraft too.

Sqk
My Lenovo actually has a good spec..i5 with 8Gig RAM. So no problem with the hardware itself...but very likely the Windows 7 is one of the issues. Originally I was going to use Cakewalk as it was recommended by my friend, but again...I spent 24 hours just trying to figure out why it wouldn't play when I click it. Cakewalk or not, originally I wanted to just record my playing, maybe download MIDI files, tweak/replace the sounds and replace some of the tracks with my own...and maybe add vocals. I did this a long time ago with my Triton and I thought I could do it again, but now as I've mentioned earlier it's just too much connecting different bits and pieces and who knows, many of my stuff (Windows, Tyros OS, etc) are already outdated. It's interesting how many people say Cakewalk are really straightforward, to me it's really complicated and definitely not intuitive in my opinion. VSTs yes, it sounds cool, but again..based on my experience in the last 48 hours...even when I thought i could use it in Cakewalk, I tried it again last night...no sounds were coming out. I will check out MixCraft just to see what it's about, but I think based on my mood in the past 48 hours (grumpy, angry, frustrated), probably it's a sign that I should just maybe stick to playing keyboard and not producing...a hobby should bring me joy not frustration, and right now I'm beyond frustrated.

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#499874 - 07/11/20 01:22 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
I recommend you get a combined audio/midi USB interface for your laptop as most standard inbuilt chips are naff.
You interface will need Midi In, Out, Audio In, Out (In addition to any microphone input) and the ability to add (Or is included) an additional power supply, as while most interfaces should run on USB2, laptop USB2s are not usually the best in supplying power, which means they are not always recognised by the OS.
Once you have the above (They do not need to cost a fortune to get you going) just connect your instrument Midi & Audio to the interface, and make sure Cakewalk is using the interface for Midi & Audio. (Your laptop speakers will be muted in this configuration hence the reason you need to connect the audio output of the interface to your instrument, as well as the Midi cables)
I also recommend you upgrade to Win10 (It’s free) unless you have a particular piece of software that will not work with Win10. (Support for Win 7 is no more and many software manufactures are also dropping support for it)
Have fun

Bill


Edited by abacus (07/11/20 01:28 AM)
Edit Reason: Added additional information
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#499876 - 07/11/20 02:27 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: abacus]
KN_Fan Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 492
Originally Posted By abacus
I recommend you get a combined audio/midi USB interface for your laptop as most standard inbuilt chips are naff.
You interface will need Midi In, Out, Audio In, Out (In addition to any microphone input) and the ability to add (Or is included) an additional power supply, as while most interfaces should run on USB2, laptop USB2s are not usually the best in supplying power, which means they are not always recognised by the OS.
Once you have the above (They do not need to cost a fortune to get you going) just connect your instrument Midi & Audio to the interface, and make sure Cakewalk is using the interface for Midi & Audio. (Your laptop speakers will be muted in this configuration hence the reason you need to connect the audio output of the interface to your instrument, as well as the Midi cables)
I also recommend you upgrade to Win10 (It’s free) unless you have a particular piece of software that will not work with Win10. (Support for Win 7 is no more and many software manufactures are also dropping support for it)
Have fun

Bill

Thanks Bill...maybe sometime in the future, I'd go the Windows 10 route sans the Cakewalk...granted this time it's my Windows 7 that's causing issues, but from my time playing with CW for about a day, it's just too complicated for me...it puzzles why so many people recommending it and saying it's easy to use. I did try Studio One for maybe an hour and my impression is, it's definitely easier (somebody also recommended FL Studio and Squeak recommended MixCraft which in a quick glance they seem to be easier and serves what I need without too much of the unnecessary extras). As for now, I decided to just go back to occasional (actual) playing music on my Tyros 3. No computers, no Daw. Thanks again for your input.

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#499879 - 07/11/20 05:10 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Before you throw in the towel, have a watch of the video below as Cakewalk should be reasonably straightforward to get into.

Have fun

Bill

_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#499880 - 07/11/20 06:21 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
W Tracy Parnell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 759
Loc: NY
Reaper is also easy to use and has a free trial:

https://www.reaper.fm/
_________________________
Komplete Kontrol S61/Korg PA900/JBL 308P/Focusrite Clarett 2Pre/Band in a Box/Reaper/EZdrummer 3

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#499881 - 07/11/20 06:25 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
The only thing I would disagree with Bill on is most internal cards not being up to task. Lenova IMO puts decent cards into their laptops. I use two laptops, but my main one is an old Fujitsu. Its had a few hardware upgrades (RAM, extra HD), but I use the internal card on it, and I’ve also used the internal card for recording vocals on a song I arranged for my neighbors kid. We did all vocals (lead/backup) using the internal card with no problems. Plus keep in mind the many 3rd party plugins (many free too), that let you clean up vocal tracks.

I’d suggest trying your Lenova’s internal card first for audio tracks. You may find it’s sufficient for your needs.

Oh., MixCraft has a nice trial demo too. There are some other free DAWS out there too. One I found very easy to use is one called Tracktion T7. Very straight forward and everything is essentially handled from the main GUI. My primaries are MixCraft and Cakewalk, but I also have Ableton and Tracktion T7, and Reason Lite (M-Audio Edition). Out of all those I still think MixCraft is the easiest to use with Tracktion T7 almost a tie with MixCraft.

Sqk
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#499882 - 07/11/20 11:03 AM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
MacAllcock Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 1221
Loc: Preston, Lancashire, England
Cakewalk is a very serious bit of software but initially can be overwhelming. I've been using it for years to edit midi files but hardly scratched the surface of most of its audio capabilities.
_________________________
John Allcock

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#499885 - 07/11/20 12:03 PM Re: DAW vs Keyboard [Re: Fran Carango]
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Forgot to add.., make sure you optimize Windows for audio work. You’d be surprised how big of a difference that can make in your laptops performance. Their are some programs that are CPU hogs too. Do a search for optimizing the version of Windows you’re using.

Sqk
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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