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#459212 - 10/07/18 11:50 AM MODX/Montage vs Genos
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
So its been 10 days since i got my MODX 6..
And because this is an arranger forum, i am going to compare it to an Arranger
In this case, i am taking Yamha’s own Genos..
And since MODX is so close to the Montage, i am also taking this into account...

So where Genos consists out of a style part, multipads, seqencer 4 keyboard parts..
The MODX basically has only a performance mode..
A performance mode consists out of 8 keyboard parts and 8 non keyboard parts..
To each keyboard part, you can assign an arp.. and a motion sequence..
(Yamaha genos only has a single arp, which can be assgned to up to 3 parts)

You can use the arps, with the right settings to mimic a style/multipads..
This works sattisfying enough for small (drums/bass/guitar) accompaniments..
But can not compete with he bigger orchestral syles in Genos..
Its possible to extract any midi pattern/part from a yamaha style
And use it as an arp..

Arps are however much more versatile then a syle track/patter
You can use it in a few different ways.. Genos uss might know this..
Big downside, thre are only 256 slots for user arps..
And if you realise a single style consist out up to 116 arps..
Its obvious a limitation when you want to import style parts..

When used as an arranger...there are 8 scenes..
These work pretty much like performace memmories
However you can not change the allocate sounds within a performance
So there is nothing like ots...
However you can use the scenes for endings/variations/fills and switching sounds..

Next to that there are the motion sequences
These are mostly synth orientated..
They are a kind of advanced lfo that can be assigned to any parameter of an sound(multiple parameters at the same time)an incredible feauture for a synth player.. a minor feature for an arranger player... same goes for a few other pro features..

The super knoowever is a very nice feature..
You can assign up to 128 parameters to the superknob
And controll them even trough the seccond expression pedal..
What most people have seen is assigning volume to it, so whn playing piano you can chnage the soundcharacter of the piano slowly while bringing a pad and a sringsound from the back to the front..

Then we come to the sounds.. sound quallity of the individuall sounds is comparable between Genos and MODX. Both use exactly the same awm2 engine..
However the MODx has an option to add more then 8 Elements to a sound. and offcourse the FM sounds... altough the MODX only has SA1 sounds..
the Genos also has SA2 sounds... ad where it comes to organs the modx only has the b3 drawbars, and not the wersi and home oran sounds... same goes for the ensemble feature.. its only in genos..

The MODX has more then double the sample rom of the Genos(same as the montage) but only half (1GB) the ram of Montage and Genos... which is a severe limitation once you realise that a single pack like the Bösendorfer or the CS80(my favorite synth ever) each are 450MB.. not leaving much room for much else..

Where it comes to edditing the sound, the modx is incredible, trough very friendly screens you have access to any single parameter of both awm2 and fm sounds... y ou can even create your own SA1 sounds..

The MODX is a dsp powerhorse. It has 2 DSP/sound for up to 12 sounds (Montage for all 16 sounds) and extra DSP for audio in..

Now back to the keyboard sounds, where Genos is limited to 4 keyboard sounds(L,R1 to 3) thw MODX has 8, which can be freely assigned to the keybed.. This offers a lot of flexibillity and freedom.. you can make huge wide deep sounds..or use some parts for arps/drums... a typical sound i use a lot is combining a grandpiano with a FM piano.. some strings and a pad for soloing piano... this is not possible on Genos.. and then i can even add a bass in the lower... and create a topright sound of brass and sax ensemble...

Whats also very nice, is that if i select a sound that is not assigned to the keyboard, the moment i select it, it takes over the keyboard.. this allows you on stage to use the voice selection as a way to use more then 8 sounds... so imagine i have 8 sounds assigned to the keyboard... and then a B3 to channel 9 a piano to channel 10 and a Rhodes to channel 11... the moment i select these channels i can solo them over the whole keyboard...for live playing in a band, thats huge... this way you can have your main sounds available in any patch...

There is also Seamless sopund swithcing.. so the moment i switch to the next performance, the old sounds keep sounding untill released.. great feature... altough on the MODX it only works for performance with up top 4 sounds (8 on Montage) which in my case where most performances have more then 4 sounds makes it quite useless

next up is the onboard sequencer.. its nothing but a scratchpad.. you can record and save it... and play it... but there is no way to edit what you played. for me its a feature not worth even mentioning.. its the same as on the Montage.. as a stand alone instrument this really limits the MODX..

But.. the modx/montage is created to be used inc ombination with a laptop or ipad.. there for it has 2 incredible features... when connceted over USB, it shows up as an Audio / midi interface on your PC/MAc or ipad... you have 5 stereo in(for recording the modx) and 1 stereo out.. the stereo out has its own mixer channel on the MODX, with all possible DSP, EQ, reverb, pan etc etc..
And then there is midi, on the ipad(which i have been using) the MODX shows as 3 midi channels... in general i use midi channel 1 to send/receive midi from the MODX. And midi channel 3 gives you direct access to the physical midi port on the back of MODX..

now both these things make the IPAD feel as part from the MODX.. i am using audiobus 3, which i use to route audio and midi between MODX and the different APPS on the IPAD.. and then i am using beatmaker3 as my main creative tool for creating midi and audio based loops.. and io am using Cubasis for recording songs... and Korg Gadget for its Sounds ... and a whole lot of AU sound units...
the MODX is perfect for controlling the sounds, and the whole interface makes them feel as an integral part of the MODX.. compared to Motif the whole interface takes integration to the next level with ipad.. i tought i would really miss the integrated sequencer.. but i dont as the ipad sequencers are so much more advanced then onboard stuff.. finally all the midi and audio editors part of the setup.. the ipad makes this keyboard the most creative musical tool in the world.. 2 feel as 1.

So, is it perfect? No, there is no real arranger. And we are arranger players first and formost.. but an ipad version of VArranger with audiobus3 support would help a lot(not going to happen, as its not really financially attractive to DAnn i guess)


Buildquallity of the MODX while it cant compete with the MONTAge but it comes surprisingly close to Genos.. light plastic... altough the keybed is surprisingly playable, its still not an FSX keybed as in the GENOS.. but case, buttons, knobs and sliders come pretty close... and the screen is not that much smaller.. there where some sacrifices for the extreme light weight like the external power supply(which i dont like) but all in all its a great build..


For the money the MODX is an astonishing instrument... same engine as the montage... same sound as the Genos.. no arranger styles... but so many things to makle up for that.. i am really enjoying it... and even dare say that i like it more then the Kronos when used with external sounds... because the interface really support this...


Needless to say, for now this is a keeper..
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#459217 - 10/07/18 12:36 PM Re: MODX/Montage vs Genos [Re: Bachus]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By Bachus
So its been 10 days since i got my MODX 6..
And because this is an arranger forum, i am going to compare it to an Arranger
In this case, i am taking Yamha’s own Genos..
And since MODX is so close to the Montage, i am also taking this into account...

So where Genos consists out of a style part, multipads, seqencer 4 keyboard parts..
The MODX basically has only a performance mode..
A performance mode consists out of 8 keyboard parts and 8 non keyboard parts..
To each keyboard part, you can assign an arp.. and a motion sequence..
(Yamaha genos only has a single arp, which can be assgned to up to 3 parts)

You can use the arps, with the right settings to mimic a style/multipads..
This works sattisfying enough for small (drums/bass/guitar) accompaniments..
But can not compete with he bigger orchestral syles in Genos..
Its possible to extract any midi pattern/part from a yamaha style
And use it as an arp..

Arps are however much more versatile then a syle track/patter
You can use it in a few different ways.. Genos uss might know this..
Big downside, thre are only 256 slots for user arps..
And if you realise a single style consist out up to 116 arps..
Its obvious a limitation when you want to import style parts..

When used as an arranger...there are 8 scenes..
These work pretty much like performace memmories
However you can not change the allocate sounds within a performance
So there is nothing like ots...
However you can use the scenes for endings/variations/fills and switching sounds..

Next to that there are the motion sequences
These are mostly synth orientated..
They are a kind of advanced lfo that can be assigned to any parameter of an sound(multiple parameters at the same time)an incredible feauture for a synth player.. a minor feature for an arranger player... same goes for a few other pro features..

The super knoowever is a very nice feature..
You can assign up to 128 parameters to the superknob
And controll them even trough the seccond expression pedal..
What most people have seen is assigning volume to it, so whn playing piano you can chnage the soundcharacter of the piano slowly while bringing a pad and a sringsound from the back to the front..

Then we come to the sounds.. sound quallity of the individuall sounds is comparable between Genos and MODX. Both use exactly the same awm2 engine..
However the MODx has an option to add more then 8 Elements to a sound. and offcourse the FM sounds... altough the MODX only has SA1 sounds..
the Genos also has SA2 sounds... ad where it comes to organs the modx only has the b3 drawbars, and not the wersi and home oran sounds... same goes for the ensemble feature.. its only in genos..

The MODX has more then double the sample rom of the Genos(same as the montage) but only half (1GB) the ram of Montage and Genos... which is a severe limitation once you realise that a single pack like the Bösendorfer or the CS80(my favorite synth ever) each are 450MB.. not leaving much room for much else..

Where it comes to edditing the sound, the modx is incredible, trough very friendly screens you have access to any single parameter of both awm2 and fm sounds... y ou can even create your own SA1 sounds..

The MODX is a dsp powerhorse. It has 2 DSP/sound for up to 12 sounds (Montage for all 16 sounds) and extra DSP for audio in..

Now back to the keyboard sounds, where Genos is limited to 4 keyboard sounds(L,R1 to 3) thw MODX has 8, which can be freely assigned to the keybed.. This offers a lot of flexibillity and freedom.. you can make huge wide deep sounds..or use some parts for arps/drums... a typical sound i use a lot is combining a grandpiano with a FM piano.. some strings and a pad for soloing piano... this is not possible on Genos.. and then i can even add a bass in the lower... and create a topright sound of brass and sax ensemble...

Whats also very nice, is that if i select a sound that is not assigned to the keyboard, the moment i select it, it takes over the keyboard.. this allows you on stage to use the voice selection as a way to use more then 8 sounds... so imagine i have 8 sounds assigned to the keyboard... and then a B3 to channel 9 a piano to channel 10 and a Rhodes to channel 11... the moment i select these channels i can solo them over the whole keyboard...for live playing in a band, thats huge... this way you can have your main sounds available in any patch...

There is also Seamless sopund swithcing.. so the moment i switch to the next performance, the old sounds keep sounding untill released.. great feature... altough on the MODX it only works for performance with up top 4 sounds (8 on Montage) which in my case where most performances have more then 4 sounds makes it quite useless

next up is the onboard sequencer.. its nothing but a scratchpad.. you can record and save it... and play it... but there is no way to edit what you played. for me its a feature not worth even mentioning.. its the same as on the Montage.. as a stand alone instrument this really limits the MODX..

But.. the modx/montage is created to be used inc ombination with a laptop or ipad.. there for it has 2 incredible features... when connceted over USB, it shows up as an Audio / midi interface on your PC/MAc or ipad... you have 5 stereo in(for recording the modx) and 1 stereo out.. the stereo out has its own mixer channel on the MODX, with all possible DSP, EQ, reverb, pan etc etc..
And then there is midi, on the ipad(which i have been using) the MODX shows as 3 midi channels... in general i use midi channel 1 to send/receive midi from the MODX. And midi channel 3 gives you direct access to the physical midi port on the back of MODX..

now both these things make the IPAD feel as part from the MODX.. i am using audiobus 3, which i use to route audio and midi between MODX and the different APPS on the IPAD.. and then i am using beatmaker3 as my main creative tool for creating midi and audio based loops.. and io am using Cubasis for recording songs... and Korg Gadget for its Sounds ... and a whole lot of AU sound units...
the MODX is perfect for controlling the sounds, and the whole interface makes them feel as an integral part of the MODX.. compared to Motif the whole interface takes integration to the next level with ipad.. i tought i would really miss the integrated sequencer.. but i dont as the ipad sequencers are so much more advanced then onboard stuff.. finally all the midi and audio editors part of the setup.. the ipad makes this keyboard the most creative musical tool in the world.. 2 feel as 1.

So, is it perfect? No, there is no real arranger. And we are arranger players first and formost.. but an ipad version of VArranger with audiobus3 support would help a lot(not going to happen, as its not really financially attractive to DAnn i guess)


Buildquallity of the MODX while it cant compete with the MONTAge but it comes surprisingly close to Genos.. light plastic... altough the keybed is surprisingly playable, its still not an FSX keybed as in the GENOS.. but case, buttons, knobs and sliders come pretty close... and the screen is not that much smaller.. there where some sacrifices for the extreme light weight like the external power supply(which i dont like) but all in all its a great build..


For the money the MODX is an astonishing instrument... same engine as the montage... same sound as the Genos.. no arranger styles... but so many things to makle up for that.. i am really enjoying it... and even dare say that i like it more then the Kronos when used with external sounds... because the interface really support this...


Needless to say, for now this is a keeper..


bachus nice thorough review..good luck.

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#459287 - 10/08/18 04:58 PM Re: MODX/Montage vs Genos [Re: Bachus]
mweuch Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/12
Posts: 82
Hi Bachus, thanks for the detail info. I just have a some quick questions if you don't mind answering. I mainly plays arrangers so when you say PERFORMANCE on the MODX, that means STYLES on the Genos? and when you say performance parts on the modx what style parts on the Genos are such as rhythm1' rhythm2, bass, chord1 and such? What VARIATIONS on the genos are called SCENES on the modx? Thanks I am hoping to get modx6 in couple months hopefully to add it with my genos and use them together. I already got the 2nd Gen iPad with Cubasis 2.6 installed and would like to used it with the MODX too. Thank you very much!

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#459293 - 10/08/18 05:53 PM Re: MODX/Montage vs Genos [Re: Bachus]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada

Bachus, congratulations on your new MODX! I'm glad to hear that you are enjoying it, and give it a thumbs up!

You mention that it sounds like a Genos, minus the Super Articulation 2 voices. It's that good, huh? ( or, as we say here in Canada, "eh?" ). smile

Thanks for taking the time to share your views of it. I'm sure it will help many to decide to get it. smile
_________________________
Mike

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#459295 - 10/08/18 09:44 PM Re: MODX/Montage vs Genos [Re: mweuch]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By mweuch
Hi Bachus, thanks for the detail info. I just have a some quick questions if you don't mind answering. I mainly plays arrangers so when you say PERFORMANCE on the MODX, that means STYLES on the Genos? and when you say performance parts on the modx what style parts on the Genos are such as rhythm1' rhythm2, bass, chord1 and such? What VARIATIONS on the genos are called SCENES on the modx? Thanks I am hoping to get modx6 in couple months hopefully to add it with my genos and use them together. I already got the 2nd Gen iPad with Cubasis 2.6 installed and would like to used it with the MODX too. Thank you very much!


I think you misunderstood me...

A Performance on the modx consists out of 16 parts..
From those 16 parts 8 parts can be assigned to the keyboard.
Each of those 8 parts can be ...
1) a normal sound like the r1 to r3 on genos
2) an arp part, playing a pattern
When you set up the arp in the right way, it can function almost exactly like a non drum style part like bass accompstyle part like bass and chird parts..
3) a drum best
4) part of a bigger sound, the main cfx pian consists of 4 parts.
There is nothing like an arranger inside the modx out of the box, but with some skills itand a lot of work it can be made to mimic an arranger.
So basically a performabce consists out of 8 parts and you have all freedom to assign them, like a drum part, a bass part and 2 chord parts.. and 4 keyboard. Parts/splits..
Or just 8 keyboard parts.. arps when programmed correctly. An function like arranger tracks, but they can do much much more...

The 8 parts not assigned to the keybed can be used from external devices liek the connected ipad.. for sequencing.

Keep in mind, nothing works out ofthe box andyou haveto set it all up yourself... thats why for 99% of the people the modx will never come close to replacing an arranger... dor convenient arranger access, you need to connect an arranger module...like ketron sd40. Or be a nerd like me.

About the ipad.. a gen2 ioad can be used for midi.. however it misses the raw processing power of my ipad pro to be a meaningfull soundsource.. i have a 2017 ipad pro which has generally about 100 times the raw processing poser of an ipad gen 2. Mobile devices have made a huge leap over ghelast few years.. so dont expect miracles from your ilad gen 2.. it makes a good midi sequencer and eeitor with cubasis.. but thats about it. Compare it to an atari st. While my ipad pro comes close to the latest laptops in processing power, allowing me to do much much more...

I hope this infohelps youbetter understand the modx and the way i use it.
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#459296 - 10/08/18 09:49 PM Re: MODX/Montage vs Genos [Re: Mikem]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Mikem

Bachus, congratulations on your new MODX! I'm glad to hear that you are enjoying it, and give it a thumbs up!

You mention that it sounds like a Genos, minus the Super Articulation 2 voices. It's that good, huh? ( or, as we say here in Canada, "eh?" ). smile

Thanks for taking the time to share your views of it. I'm sure it will help many to decide to get it. smile


The sound is the same as the montage, and it has double the dsp power / track as the genos.. the genos dsp and sound is on the same level as the montage...

It also has more then double the wave rom of the genos... giving much more depth and options in the traditional keyboard sounds like piano, digital piano, strings, pads and offcorse synthesizer sounds...
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#459299 - 10/09/18 01:27 AM Re: MODX/Montage vs Genos [Re: Bachus]
john smies Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.


Interesting reading Bachus, thank you.
Friend of mine had the 76 keys version on trial and was impressed as well but did return it to the shop for the sole reason of the keys. According to him the keybed was okay as far as the white keys were concerned, but it was horrendous on the black keys.
( noisy, rattling, etc.etc.) Was he just unlucky or do all of them display this phenomenon ?

John

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#459300 - 10/09/18 01:49 AM Re: MODX/Montage vs Genos [Re: john smies]
deb Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 116
Loc: netherlands
The MODX could be a very interesting instrument but Bachus you
forgot one important thing .

The Genos has Aftertouch !

The MODX has no Aftertouch !

Deb

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#459301 - 10/09/18 03:46 AM Re: MODX/Montage vs Genos [Re: Bachus]
Impuls Online   content
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 614
Loc: Netherlands
Does the Modx have the drawbar display of the Genos ?

Impuls
_________________________
Genos2,Yamaha YC61, Ventilator2 . : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmC6hdAR1v5lYN8twfn0YbA

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#459302 - 10/09/18 04:05 AM Re: MODX/Montage vs Genos [Re: deb]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By deb
The MODX could be a very interesting instrument but Bachus you
forgot one important thing .

The Genos has Aftertouch !

The MODX has no Aftertouch !

Deb


Thanx I learned something I did not know... They have to cut back on some features at a cheaper price. A used Montage might have been a consideration too.


Edited by Dnj (10/09/18 06:02 AM)

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