Whats an acceptable price for 3rd party styles?
We are talking high quallity styles here...

Personally i would not pay more then €5 pro styles (thats almost $7)
And expecting prices to be lower on bigger packs..


So whats an acceptble price for you?

Hello Bachus ! Nice to hear from you.

I think your $7.00 US price would be my expectation too. However most of the Tyros 5 and Genos styles I have purchased are more like 8 to 9 dollars unless they are part of a pack. Fortunately Yamaha's MusicSoft site has sales every few months. I usually wait for that. There's also a Dutch site I have purchased from too. Their pricing is similar.

Since I bought my Genos I haven't been buying to many third party styles. I am still overwhelmed at how good so many of the onboard styles are. I seldom tweak the voices much either. The few styles I have purchased are nice but nothing close to awesome. You would think someone ( hint hint!! ) could construct some pretty awesome new styles if they used a Genos from the start. Most "Genos" styles for sale seem to be re-worked Tyros styles. I haven't even seen any member contributed Genos styles yet either. I am guilty too.......I haven't shared any styles.........only some songs. -charley

With all the thousands of styles all available free why does anybody need any more and with all the tools and features on these keyboards you can make them sound as good as you want that said $10 seems like a fair price for all the work put into making a style in the first place if you have to resort to buying, one.... if someone doesn't think so try making your own and see how hard it is... just my opinion...

Donny...are you ok? I didn’t understand your last post.

Concerned...
jingleman

Donny...that’s better!

Just read it again Makes perfectly good sense to me what don't you understand maybe I can help?

If mass production, I would say max 8 - 10$, or less related to what kind of stylecomplexity.
If it's not already a special offer, a sort of quantity or 'pack' discount should be provided.
As example in steps at 5 styles if buy in a single order. The more styles in one single buy,
the more discount.
If we're talking about unike quality styles made specially for a single customer, then I would
accept a higher price level, because producer / seller then will not gain several sales for the
same style. (At least not in the public market)

Your redo clarified your point

Point is...
I had a discussion with some German friends about a company asking $60 for a 5 style pack..
i said thats to expensive for most people, they will not sell many at that price..

As comparrisson..
Genos has 500 styles for $5000 thats $10/styles (and you get all the other features sounds and hardware for free)
Or Genos expansion packs at $150 comes with 50 styles at $3/style and you get 50 voices and some multipads for free

I can see Donny's point..
That there are so many styles, that only trough editing, copy/paste parts you could easilly make fitting styles for most
But i don't see his point that for those that haven't matered this, the high prices are just..
In general asking more then people are willing to pay, will quickly kill a company..

A successfull company tries to find the sweetspot between what people want to pay, and making most money by the salesnumbers
$12 for a styles is in my book way over the top...

So who here would pay $12 for a style he wants?
So who Would pay $12 for a style he absolutely needs and is not able to make his own styles or find a free style for the job?
And who would never pay $12 but is willing to pay lets say half of that for something really beautifull? (because these are indeed high quallity styles)

The start of my Technic days, Kn2000, third party styles were hard to find --- and if you were lucky to find one they were not very good. We learned to tweak the on- board styles; which were pretty good. I still believe that is the best way to go.

You pay $1,200 to $4,500 for a keyboard, why not use or tweak the great styles you paid for?

John C.

When I (we) still did gig, I always tweaked and mixed the onboard styles and some converted stuff to fit for the songs we played.
Did as best as I could to make it sound 'our own way' as duo or trio, and not the same as everybody else when play styles as is.
Never used midifiles or other playback, but only live playing with use of styles, mainly drums and bass parts.
Nowadays I'm just playing for my own peasure, and still only by use of styles.

I buy styles or packs when I feel for it, and lately I was in a German site. Price €15 each style.
Picked 19 (now it could be 20), asked for a little discount, but got 'no way' as answer, but got urged to buy less if I could not afford it.
Since I like to have a 'collection' for a 'set between breaks' when buy, but I did not buy.
I did not ask for a discount because I could not afford it, but at the high price, there should have been easy for the seller.
I don't need those, but they don't sound bad, and it would be placed in the 'nice to have' category for fun and joy.
As Donny say, it's a lot of stuff at the keyboard already, and there is zillions of Yamaha stuff at no cost to find.
And a lot of it sounds real good, even at Genos with few tweaks / adjustments.

and let's not forget with an arranger there is so many ways to create music besides using style play as a crutch as most do ...
"Mix it Up"

You're right, but let's face it.
This is 'auto arranger keyboards', and the styles is the
main thing for many of us, specially for 'non pianists' like me.
Too slow left hand, and not any good at manual bass.....

Sorry for drive a bit out off topic.

Using an instrument as it was intended is hardly a "crutch"
I agree that modern arrangers offer more than just style play as advantages, but at the core of the instrument - it's built to play styles. Useing them does not show weakness, as a crutch would imply.

What UD said!

Gary

If that were true Dave as many of us use styles, smf, etc, also,...these features wouldn't be included in an ARKB that you also Pay for on an arranger kb no need to be "STYLE DEFENSIVE"...
let's just face it call it what it really is style mode is just an operator or player, etc, controlling a auto repetitive small midi file of sorts no way around that no matter how you look at it,...nothing wrong with that, but if that's all you can use due to lack of ability and can't play any other way using an arranger that has so many other features or for example using charts, memorizing lyrics, or the sequencer multitracking songs, etc, or what have you all these thing are crutches and without them you would
"fall on the floor so to speak"....that said I enjoy playing using all methods for what they are I hope everyone will also....
take care I'll duck now.........




PS..Oh yea remember this?.. years ago before styles we played keyboards with bands for so many years not a style in sight or invented yet pre arranger
and STILL made great music every nite!!!

ok back to watching the "GREATEST SHOWMAN" on HBO...just sayin'

Donny ... One of the recent YT videos showed Willie Nelson obviously using either sheet music or a monitor for lyrics ... Would you tell Willie he was using a crutch ?!? ...

Price depends ....
Midi based style (where 1 individual can sit behind a keyboard and create a good style), ....or an audio based style (which requires a little more....like actual musicians playing on drums, bass, guitar ...etc plus a studio engineer and yes ...our computer DAW/guy to put it all together yielding to a great, more live/human style)?

Donny, using all the features on an arranger keyboard requires a significant degree of talent - no shortcuts there, no crutches. You cannot play an arranger keyboard without some semblance of music education, whether it is formal or self-education. A person must be able to learn and utilize chords, know chord structure, etc..., all the same things a piano player, guitar player, fiddle player, harmonica player and other instrument players need to know.

And, when someone played a keyboard before arrangers came to be, they were essentially playing a piano, or organ - nothing more, nothing less, especially when they played with a band. When I was with a band, I played guitar, sometimes rhythm, sometimes lead, and I was the singer. The bass guy and the drummer, contrary to your belief, were playing repetitive loops, same as a style file, but they did it manually. We all had crutches, lyrics books, fake books, and when our drummer passed away, a Roland drum machine.

An arranger keyboard is not a crutch by any means. It is a fantastic musical instrument that is incredibly versatile. If you want to use it as a crutch, and some folks do by playing SMF files with embedded lyrics, or .kar files, then plink a few keys as if you were performing every sound in the song, then yes, it would be a crutch. Same goes for performers that do the same using MP3 files.

You have often stated that you rarely use more than a dozen styles for a 3 to 4-hour performance. Now that's repetitive, IMO. No different than some of the "Have Guitar Will Travel" guys I've run across in my travels. Every song sounds the same after the second song they perform. Today's arranger keyboards have hundreds of onboard styles, most of which are very, very good and can be used to perform any number of songs. Additionally, there are lots of song specific, third party styles available, which make that song fairly close to sounding like the original backing from the original band - and that's what our audiences came to hear.

Over the years, I have encountered several incredibly creative individuals on the Internet that produced some of the most wonderful music productions anyone could possibly imagine. They did this using low and mid range arranger keyboards, often with modified third party styles, and the skills of a creative genius - not crutches, as you call them.

Me, I made a damned good living with my arranger keyboard, I used it as it was primarily designed to do, and learned every aspect of the keyboard, inside and out. It took me years to learn how to do this, and during that time, I was able to impart much of that information to others along the way who were struggling with their keyboards.

Now, I can play a piano, though not very well, a 12-string guitar, electric guitar, a mandolin and harmonica, and while I tried playing a fiddle, I was never very good at it so I gave up on that instrument. Of all the instruments I learned to play, my favorite is an arranger keyboard. It is a fantastic instrument - NOT A CRUTCH!

All the best,

Gary

But Gary you never use midi files On an arranger? Why?....

Yes Gary using 30/40 styles in 4 hrs.... But... I always mixed it up with custom MP3 backing tracks midi files, singing.. instrumentals, you name it mixing up is the name of the game that's what makes it not repetitive and boring.... listening to Styles all night would drive me crazy...
Just my thoughts...

Donny, I never needed a midi file crutch or an MP3 crutch - I just used my skills and talents - that's all that was necessary to keep those audience members on the dance floor.

Donny, you frequently posted that you never used more than a dozen styles during your performances, not 30 to 40. So be realistic, you wouldn't know if the person on stage was playing a SMF or MP3 file, especially if they were singing with it. In those instances, the person's vocals are the lead instrument - not the keyboard.

Gary

Gary.... I meant 30/40 in my style collection.... sometimes I use them all sometimes I use none it depends why?

because I mix it up.. Lol

I mixed up as well, Donny, but I did so using nothing more than styles. One of the reasons I was the highest paid performer in both my area of Maryland and Marathon Key, Florida was I provided a huge variety of music, something that appealed to everyone. Not only did I play to the older folks, but I also entertained Spring Breakers. Until I played for those college kids I never realized that there were REAL Barbie Dolls, and I managed to put them on the dance floor. All with nothing more than styles.

Hope to see you soon, old friend,

Gary

Really?
My experience is that those who hired us did it because we were us, the songs we played and the way we did it as a 'coverband'.
Picked 'hits', oldies, reworked styles and played songs people wanted to hear and dance to, but never tried to copy and sound like any other.
Just being ourselves, sounding as ourselves and always did as best as we could.
Approx 90% og our jobs during the years was a result of feedback spread from the audience.
Maybe we just got lucky?


Well, now we drifted away and got OT deLuxe. Sorry Bachus.

Gunnar, were you playing all original songs, or songs that were popular to the crowds? For example, when I played the piano intro to Old Time Rock And Roll, everyone instantly knew what was coming and the dance floor was instantly filled. That's what I was referring to in my statement above. Same goes for a host of other songs I performed, such as House of The Rising Sun, etc...

Gary

Gary, I stand corrected for not understand your post correctly. Sorry.
Yes, we did all sort of songs and genres, both dinner music and dance music depending of the venue and type of arrangement.
(Well, not HipHop and Trance and that sort of too heavy stuff)
To play music that kept people at the dancing floor was important, so we started with tunes that we knew would get the people to move the feet.
Main reason why I never use midifiles other than to 'learning and training' objects, is that to me it's far more easy to add verses and bridges to the
songs in style mode when people was in the right mood to carry on to sing along and continue dancing the ongoing songs..

Agree 100-percent, Gunnar.

Gary

Ever hear of smf markers? Just sayin

Donny, have you ever used them? The markers, from the little testing I did with this system, sometimes has a glitch effect, like the song skips a beat or hesitates when triggering back to the marker. This may have something to do with the keyboard's processor speed, though - not sure.

The best use I found for midi files was for learning a song that I didn't know. They were a good tool for that purpose. Same goes for MP3s. The only mid files I used when I was still working were some that you gave me, very long ones that I could put on before the show started, or during short breaks on long jobs.

Gary

I will only say there is so much more to performing music then using just styles.... But only if you know how....
And open your way of thinking.....
Looking down upon other ways of creating music isn't a good thing in many ways,... Just my thoughts.

I've been so lazy for such a long time. I used the arranger for the styles 100% of the time.. Would pick a style that got as close to what the song needed as I could and then simply played the chords behind the vocals. If I couldn't come up with a decent style I would put the tune on hold figuring that a decent styly would show up sooner or later. Besides there was more than enough tunes to do without worring about the little stuff

Well, now that I'm getting back into it I have decided to arrange each and every song individually. Starting from scratch so its going to take a while but this way I'll be sure that the tunes I do are the best I can do.

I'm working on how to use all of the many features I never bothered with before. You know registrations, OTS, etc. There is a lot of stuff to learn.

Now your talking... Dig in do your homework and enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Earl is one of my best pupils!

Gary