New video to aim the Genos at the 20 something crowd!! From the UK!!

https://youtu.be/Wt3zmvTld1w

This is a really big deal to have someone of the stature of Jacob Collier endorsing an arranger keyboard .

I was thinking 'This is the type of person KB manufacturers should have endorsing their products', and then I read this comment on the youtube page - I guess there will always be naysayers .... :
[color:#FF0000]Our favorite wonderkid, experiencing some serious cash flow right now. Anyone who believes that Jacob has a need for a Yamaha workstation, really?[/color]

He is quite talented ...

John, good find. He’s definitely an inspiration for a lot of musicians.

jingleman

I saw him once in Israel , wow that what i can say , he is a genious ,one of a kind , and it is very nice of him to be a presentor of Arranger of any kind .

It is, but as the arranger keyboard is dying off (The Genos is starting to move away from arranger play (Hence it can be targeted at a younger audience rather than all the old fogies) it’s a bit of a moot point.

Bill

I believe Bill is right; but there is no need to worry most of us will be gone before the arranger keyboard is no more.

John C.

+1
I think it's called natural progress ...

There is very little that the genos can do that the tyros 5 before it couldn’t do . It just sounds better that’s all.

An arranger keyboard still has preprogrammed drum patterns and chord patterns that will follow the left or right hand or both depending on the keys you press to direct your arranger. I don’t believe they are dying . But I do believe that different aspects of the instrument capabilities can be marketed to different people.

That’s what all arranger keyboard manufactures have been negligent in doing and I guess business reason for that is that they do not wish to cannibalise the other keyboard sales

That’s exactly what most used to say in the electronic organ heydays, (The arranger is just a spin-off of the easy play features which has been developed further) and it is no different today with arrangers. (There heyday has/is coming to an end)

Bill

Yamaha is trying to re-brand by changing the name and the category with the Genos. A digital workstation is saying that the Genos is more than an arranger. I need the “more” part more than the arranger part. I hope it fills the void of my MotifXF and Pa4X combined!!

I have been hearing about the death of of arrangers for the last 15 years .

I guess every thing that’s is sold is coming to an end of its sales cycle so I don’t doubt this applies to arrangers . However the way things look we are more likely to see the death of the fossil fuel motor vehicle before the death of the arranger . And we still sell tonnes of petroleum and diesel cars .

Substitute organ for arranger and those are the exact same words that were used before organ sales reduced. (And many manufactures disappeared)
Go to any dealer and they will tell you that the arranger peaked around 2010/12 and has been downhill ever since. (Yamaha’s T5 was a flop compared to earlier T’s with only 76 notes giving some saving grace, hence the Genos)
NOTE: the arranger will not disappear, (Just like the electronic organ has not disappeared) but it will become a very niche market. (Way more than it is now)

Bill

Using that logic Bill substitute “work station “ instead of arranger and you will see that workstation sales have also peaked 10 years ago and are now on the decline as more and more people use controllers and dedicated software.

But folks are still buying workstations in good numbers .

I guess what we need to do is determine what we mean by dying .....arrangers in my view are far from dying .

Arrangers are mainly bought by old fogies who as they die out so will the arranger, (The same happened to the electronic organ market from which arrangers came) remaining just as a niche market. (Just like the electronic organ)

It’s just evolution really, whatever replaces the arranger will follow the same fate, and their owners will also be saying “I have been hearing about the death of (whatever replaces the arranger) for the last 15 years” and then proceed to bury their head in the sand. (Just as a lot of arranger players are doing today, and electronic organ players did back in the day)

Bill

My arranger still has plenty of life, and is still earning it's keep!!!

The target audience is still amazed by the sound of the full band coming from it.

No gloom and doom here!!!

Regards,
Jerrygh

Yup Jerry, while arrangers are still here and while I'm still here, I'll enjoy 'em.

DITTO Bill great evaluation..

So what you’re saying Bill is that arranger keyboards are bought mainly by old people?

Do you have any numbers to support that?

Because my understanding is that the vast majority of arranger keyboards that are purchased are bought for European and Middle Eastern market as well as China Japan et cetera and the vast majority of those customers are not old people. You may be expressing your views about high-end arranger keyboards bought in the UK or America. But that is not true of the rest of the world.

Secondly the majority of arranger keyboards that are purchased are not the high-end tyros/Genos or Korg P a 4x. That cost multiple thousands of pounds /euros/dollars .

In fact the most commonly bought arranger keyboards are the low to middle price range and type such as the portable keyboard Casio or PSR Yamaha which are mainly bought by parents for their children. Also the vast majority of keyboards at most schools in the United Kingdom that teach music are arranger keyboards. That is likely to be true in most countries because of their low cost point and multiple features/applications .

So I respectfully challenge your first argument

But for arguments sake, let’s just say your first srgument is true in that most arrangers are bought by old fogies. You say as the older folk die so will arranger keyboards. But I bought my first Arranger keyboard when I was 20 . Which is not an old it was a Casio . And I moved upwards as affordability became less of an issue .

Considering I am nearly 50 now that’s a good run for this type of instrument and it’s still going strong . But I have noticed the strangest thing bill. The styles that were on my original Casio keyboard and that I thought were cutting edge and up-to-date , are I considered old now compared to the latest iteration from Korg and Yamaha. Quite astonishingly, these manufacturers are producing styles commensurate with the music of today as well as the music of the past.

This is because there is a generation behind me who 20 years from now will consider the music off today as being music of the era/generation but also have a eye to the music of their current period .

You use the word “evolution“ but evolution in this sense merely means change over time . It does not mean the instrument has died but that it has adapted to the environment that it has to exist in .

Have arranger keyboard involved? Well the answer has to be resoundingly yes! And it will continue to evolve.

How long it will continue in its current form is anyone’s guess but if we are going to discuss the death of the arranger sensibly ,then we need to agree on some kind of definition of what dying is as by your definition Bill everything is dying ! Which of course must be true .

1. I am talking about Western based countries (Asia is a completely different market where even organs are still popular (Probably more so than the arranger keyboard) but the voicings and styles are different for the different market)

2. Talk to dealers both here and in Europe and they will all tell you the same that most arranger keyboards are bought by older people. (The US has never had much relevance, as while it is a large country, arranger keyboard sales are minimal compared to the rest of the world)

3. Electric organs came out in the 30s with consumer models taking off from the late 50s and are still going today, however they are a totally niche market, just like the arranger will be in the not too distant future.

4. Yes a few entry keyboards are bought by parents but the vast majority get consigned to the cupboard as youngsters now use their phones. (Try finding someone under 30 (Or even 40) that doesn’t constantly have their head buried in their phone)

4. Bury your head in the sand as much as you want (Organ fans did and they still died) but the Arranger keyboard is dying, and will soon become a niche market just like electronic organs. (Following your premise the electronic organ is still way more popular than the arranger keyboard as it has been out decades longer. Good Luck with that)

Bill

Thanks for debating with me bill. It’s always a pleasure to chew the cud with you.

So what you are now saying is that your argument about the decline or death of arranger keyboards is limited just to the west? And that in the main old fogies purchase these keyboards . They will soon become a niche market like the home organ was and that most arrangers are in the closet and forsaken by young people who are now making music on their phones ? Have I summarised your assessment appropriately?

Granted , that in the west high end arranger keyboards are in the main purchased by people who can afford the huge ticket price . These are almost by default likely to be older people with higher disposable incomes. This is the exact same situation it was with home organs . By the way, both home organs and arrangers are by definition “niche products “ . Always have been and always will be .

However that only accounts for discrete purchases off the high street . I would hazard a guess that for each high end Genos unit purchased on the high street, there are multiple psr / Casio ordered online ( therefore the age of the purchaser is unknown unless the dealer /retailer has found some way to determine the purchasers age ) .

Secondly when schools order arrangers they tend to order them in multiples of 10 - 20 at a time . ( my sister is a head teacher ) . So just in terms of units purchased , I am not persuaded that the majority of sales are from old gogies although this might be true for discreet high end purchases .

As for kids making music on their phones rather than playing a real keyboard , wouldn’t that same argument (if it were true ) apply to any real musical instrument ??? Or do you think young people are playing guitars and trumpets and saxophones and oboes in real life but when it comes to their arranger keyboard they pick up theirs phones instead ?

That makes no sense bill .

And lastly , I teach keyboard to 15 regular children from age 7 to young adults 20
Years of age . I also teach music to my choir of over 45 children and have done that for the last 10 years and so have worked with literally hundreds of young people over that time .

I have one daughter and 7 nephews and nieces . I have not yet seen any of them make any music other than record their voices on their phones . I must have not yet met the right young people I guess ?

Bill I am not burying my head in the sand. I am just consciously assessing what has been said over the years against what I see based on my own personal experience / observations and what I know from my own research. I am not persuaded that arranger keyboards will die any time soon. Especially as the low to mid range become much more feature packed with high quality sounds .

And what it really boils down to is what you define as “ dying” and “ soon” . I can remember having a similar conversation on this forum 10 years ago. 10 years in the life-cycle of any product is pretty significant and yet here we are all still licking her lips and anticipating the next iteration of the next arranger keyboard..