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#442338 - 12/11/17 02:30 AM
to ARRANGE or not ARRANGE , THAT is the question
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.
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It is with some hesitation that I breach this subject again, after all this is the ARRANGER forum. Operative words here are and will be "arrange", "tweak", "gigging" and "songstyles ". In light of the current discussion on the Roland EA7 thread I thought it might be interesting to share my views on the subject and see what yours are.Also in view of the current Genos hype. Don't get me wrong, I briefly played the Genos and it is absolutely topclass, though shamefully overpriced. It is however not really my cup of tea probably because I have been biased towards Korg for the last 20 years. So far the consensus between these two brands has always been the fact that Korg is more like having a real band supporting you and Yamaha is so smooth and perfect as if having finished a CD yourself ( if and when recorded). With the current top arrangers Ketron SD9, Korg PA4X and the Genos there is no accounting for tastes. However if it comes to ARRANGING it is my belief that well over 75% of Yamaha players, in particular the non gigging ones, are more or less satisfied what the manufacturer has concocted as far as arrangments go. The Songlist is adequately sufficient to them and on top of that they have a gamut of Songstyles. In fact one might conclude that they only use the keyboard part of the arranger keyboard whereas the actual arranging has been left to the manufacturer. Korg players by contrast, though of course not all of them have less of a tendendy to lean to songstyles and factory arrangements and set themselves more to tweaking and using onboard styles for the benefit of recording or performing wellknown pop classics without the actual use of the exact songstyles. As far as in depth arranging and tweaking goes again there is a substantial difference between the gigging and non gigging community, counting myself among the latter. Those gigging most of the times lean very heavily on a song being reproduced and recognisable to their audiences. Most of the times they will have either a songstyle (complete copy) or a style that has been tweaked to get as close as possible to the songstyle. Although there is room for different arrangements they cannot stray too far from the beaten track for fear of their songs not being recognised or appreciated. Those using the arranger keyboard at home without gigging either opt for the 'easy way out' ( read: using the songbooks etc. provided by the manufacturer) or they go for intensive tweaking and arranging, like I used to do. ( and will do given the chances). By doing so they discover, as Donny pointed out elsewhere the real depth and possibilities of their own arranger keyboard and in the process become more creative and start arranging themselves.Do not get me wrong , I am not saying that one thing is better than the other. The performer on stage has to entertain the audience and make sure he sounds good, songstyles or no songstyles, tweaking or no tweaking. But those who have time on their hands and want to get beyond that what is on offer by the manufacturer will like to delve deeper. As to myself, some of you know I have programmed, tweaked and arranged quite a bit on the Korgs over the last 15 years, something which was until recently not possible on the Yamahas. To me the added value of any arranger keyboard has been the opportunity to arrange things your way and thus, hopefully, surprise people from time to time.By way of illustration, if you check the famous song "Streets of London" by Ralph McTell on youtube and then check my version of it ( incidentally recorded on the Korg PA80 way back when) you will understand my point of reasoning. In conclusion , I am still waiting for the PA1000 to arrive as is Uncle Dave, already knowing that I will be upset (yet again) for Korg having abandoned the good old Performances. They were ever so handy for those arranging and tweaking in depth and not gigging................alas.............. Best wishes to all of you for Christmas and I hope 2018 will bring health, prosperity , wisdom and lots and lots of good music.....on whichever instrument
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#442349 - 12/11/17 07:17 AM
Re: to ARRANGE or not ARRANGE , THAT is the question
[Re: john smies]
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Senior Member
Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1298
Loc: TX, USA
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Hi John:
I spend more time arranging than recording after I've written an original song and melody. Because I don't play well, arthritic hands, I look for styles that will enhance the intro, breaks and outro of my songs. Then I'll spend hours "arranging" the instruments (Yamaha calls them voices), then varying the volume of each... sometimes changing out the instrument(s) for others, adjusting the tempo... and, above all, making a written record of all the settings. Yes, I save the settings in the memory banks but eventually lose or over-write a location.
We all have our favorite brand of keyboard and I don't care to learn a new system but have owned a Mini-Korg and really liked it... but Yamaha's new models are fairly easy to learn and the layouts don't vary much.
Having the ability to create a backing for a song with an arranger (no matter what brand) is a Godsend.
Merry Christmas, ----Dave Rice
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#442390 - 12/12/17 01:06 AM
Re: to ARRANGE or not ARRANGE , THAT is the question
[Re: john smies]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5508
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
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Bachus
"i was totally misunderstood by many of the as you said typical Yamaha arranger players."
I fully agree. It hurts worse to be chastised through a misinterpretation than for something that was actually said.
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact
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#442437 - 12/13/17 10:51 AM
Re: to ARRANGE or not ARRANGE , THAT is the question
[Re: maartenb]
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.
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Hi John, I've found that arranging is hard, very hard. It's easy to slam some instruments/voices together and play those. However, to combine the drums, bass and rhythm guitar/keys into a whole in such a way that it really swings... boy, I find that very hard to do. So I turned to an arranger. The styles all sound good. I can easily remove a style track or add some multipads. For a song I found a style with the correct feel, but the wrong instruments. So I changed the voices of the style and voila: a new style. Last but not least, I can play this in real time. This makes it very quick to try some things out. It's also ideal when I play in my home with a singer or a guitarist. And I can also use a style as a basis for a cover that I completely programmed in a DAW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo1DAt321qoSo I love arrangers Maarten Hi Maarten, That was a most interesting video which immediately raises the question why on earth is that your only video ? I also thank all those who have responded thus far to my somewhat drawn out reflections on arranging and arranger keyboards, it is a fascinating subject and a fascinating instrument. And yes I recall that one day, many many moons ago, a well seasoned piano player took up a seat behind my arranger keyboard ( always having looked down on "those fiddling with buttons, pressing a few keys and the keyboard would do the rest" } and found himself totally baffled.All he could do was play the piano on it..............but that he did in a class all to his own. But it is my belief that those who started out on the piano at an early age have a substantial advantage on those who never did, also in regards to mastering the complexities of an arranger keyboard. Another tentative conclusion that can be drawn so far is that with the current cream of the crop (SD9, Genos ,PA4X) it looks like we have reached a certain limit , at least for the current older generation of fervent keyboard players.Whether the really younger generation will follow suit remains to be seen, but then again I notice a revival of guitar playing singer songwriters, busking in the streets of the major cities etc. In short there will always be plenty of good music !!!! regards John
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