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#438365 - 10/03/17 12:31 AM Re: Genos vs pa4x [Re: rolandfan]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1133
Loc: United Kingdom
Well I have reviewed a number of the new Yamaha Genos YouTube clips. Martin Harris is a beast, let me say that from the get go! And some have already said he can make any instrument sound awesome. He’s just that good.

In terms of the sounds of the Genos, I don’t think you could put a piece of paper between how it sounds compare to the Tyros 5. To me they sound identical in terms of sound quality. And that’s a compliment, because Yamaha sounds have always been Stella and I think they will struggle to provide any other instrument going forward that will greatly surpass what they have already achieved In terms of real world sounds.

What is a huge step forward is the touchscreen and this feature alone will make the Genoe more desirable than any of its predecessors. I like what I have seen and heard especially the real-time control improvements that Yamaha have now added including the joystick and knobs to tweak the sounds in real time. All in all Genos is a Tyros with a touchscreen , some arps and a better user interface.

Some would argue, that will be sufficient for them to drop another pile of money (equivalent to the cost of a small family car) for this upgrade . And God bless them as this keeps the economy going and keeps bringing innovation to keyboards which everyone will benefit from eventually. Where I think Yamaha dropped the ball is that they have castrated the workstation element in the digital workstation/arrange keyboards by limiting the editability of the instrument unless it is hooked up to a computer for recording, sequencing and production. I guess that is because they will assume that anyone using the genos for song writing and composing will have it hooked up to a computer. But for me, I like to create and compose and arrange on the instrument that I am playing.

From reading the specs, it does not look like the genos sequencer is any more detailed than its predecessors. And that unfortunately for me is a definite deal breaker. Other than that, I love what Yamaha have done and it has brought the arranger keyboard (in terms of their offering ) into the 21st-century. I think in terms of sounds, both the tyros range and Genos sounded marginally better than the Korg PA 4x, but in terms of editability and an “all in one box solution“ true workstation , Yamaha are still trailing . However I think that probably was a deliberate decision.

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#438370 - 10/03/17 02:45 AM Re: Genos vs pa4x [Re: spalding1968]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4533
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By spalding1968
Well I have reviewed a number of the new Yamaha Genos YouTube clips. Martin Harris is a beast, let me say that from the get go! And some have already said he can make any instrument sound awesome. He’s just that good.

In terms of the sounds of the Genos, I don’t think you could put a piece of paper between how it sounds compare to the Tyros 5. To me they sound identical in terms of sound quality. And that’s a compliment, because Yamaha sounds have always been Stella and I think they will struggle to provide any other instrument going forward that will greatly surpass what they have already achieved In terms of real world sounds.

What is a huge step forward is the touchscreen and this feature alone will make the Genoe more desirable than any of its predecessors. I like what I have seen and heard especially the real-time control improvements that Yamaha have now added including the joystick and knobs to tweak the sounds in real time. All in all Genos is a Tyros with a touchscreen , some arps and a better user interface.

Some would argue, that will be sufficient for them to drop another pile of money (equivalent to the cost of a small family car) for this upgrade . And God bless them as this keeps the economy going and keeps bringing innovation to keyboards which everyone will benefit from eventually. Where I think Yamaha dropped the ball is that they have castrated the workstation element in the digital workstation/arrange keyboards by limiting the editability of the instrument unless it is hooked up to a computer for recording, sequencing and production. I guess that is because they will assume that anyone using the genos for song writing and composing will have it hooked up to a computer. But for me, I like to create and compose and arrange on the instrument that I am playing.

From reading the specs, it does not look like the genos sequencer is any more detailed than its predecessors. And that unfortunately for me is a definite deal breaker. Other than that, I love what Yamaha have done and it has brought the arranger keyboard (in terms of their offering ) into the 21st-century. I think in terms of sounds, both the tyros range and Genos sounded marginally better than the Korg PA 4x, but in terms of editability and an “all in one box solution“ true workstation , Yamaha are still trailing . However I think that probably was a deliberate decision.


Interesting how people perceive sound differently, as apart from some of the new features included on the T5 (Ensemble etc.) I found the T5 to be way inferior to the T4 on which it was based, (Note this was live trial comparisons, not professional video demos which sound nothing like the instrument in the real world) whereas so far (But I will reserve final judgment until I have tried it) the sounds in the videos of the Genos have taken a giant leap forward, (The round robin feature is a very welcome addition) which now puts Yamaha on a level with the Korg PA4x.

It’s also interesting about the joystick, as I find this a retrograde step, (I have never been able to get on with the joystick approach) with an assignable pitch & modulation wheel being much better.

I do think Yamaha will sell shed loads of the Genos though (The T5 sales were poor compared to previous models, with the 76 note model being its saving grace) as it really is a step up for Yamaha. (The way the PA4x kicked the T5s backside (Butt) in both sales and quality (I have never known so many users jump from the Yamaha ship) they had to do something)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#438376 - 10/03/17 04:48 AM Re: Genos vs pa4x [Re: rolandfan]
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2793
Loc: Tampa, FL
I think the Genos is a mix of new stuff and more of the same from Yamaha. It is still not a "players" keyboard like the Ketron and the Korg. They are missing some key physical controls on the surface. It looks like they removed some controls and put them on the touch screen.

The case also looks like a HOME keyboard design (curved? furniture?) rather than a road warrior design to be gigged with. I noticed the case is a flat black and the one in the Martin Harris videos is already scuffed and scratched on the paint surface.

I will say those Yamaha sounds are amazing. Certainly the guitars are quite stellar and that Pedal Steel guitar has always been one of my favorites. I wasn't very impressed with the organs. You need a good C1-C3 Chorus to get that authentic Hammond Sound and I didn't recall hearing any nor was their any in the T5 that was selectable. The strings, brass, and synth sounds have always been remarkable and with the ensemble function really shine; I wish I had those. I am really critical of drums and I still hear those crappy T5 snare drums. I hope they have added/changed some of those snares to be more contemporary; not just filter them but change the underlying wave samples. The wave stepping is great in theory but I didn't really hear it in action on the limited demos I heard. I'd need to dive into this a bit more.

I also like the Yammy freestyles. In general, the styles are also busier in the 3-4 variations than the Korg styles; sometimes that is very good and sometimes not so good. I'm glad I didn't hear any damn woodblock or tambourine's in the styles. Those drive me crazy. For my taste, I would like to see all styles only have volume levels up for the Bass, Drums, and maybe one guitar or piano accompaniment. They can program the other channels, but leave the volume off so if I want to make the sound fuller, all I have to do is move the volume sliders up instead of the other way around where I have to turn down the busy accompaniment on each style at the start. This is basic song dynamics. The overall sound is still more wet and brighter than the RAW sound of the Korg's.

I do have concerns regarding the implementation of the setlist function and the MP3 Player section. How well are they integrated with they keyboard functions and controls?
Can you import / export setlists? Does it store transpose, vocal harmony settings, mp3/song/style types? Is it as good as the Pa4x implementation which in my opinion is the best on the market. Was it an afterthought or a class leading change?

I also agree Martin Harris is an amazing player. He is so fast; watch as he touches the controls between fast notes/chords! Very smooth and polished.

It looks like a winner for the home players; it remains to be seen if it's worthy of gigging with. It's amazing how far Yamaha have come; from only offering a 61 key version to only a 76 key version. I'm so happy we have Korg around to really drive change and challenge the other manufacturers to innovate!!!
_________________________
Al


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#438382 - 10/03/17 06:45 AM Re: Genos vs pa4x [Re: kbrkr]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 33885
Loc: Jersey Shore, NJ USA
Originally Posted By kbrkr
It looks like a winner for the home players; it remains to be seen if it's worthy of gigging with. It's amazing how far Yamaha have come; from only offering a 61 key version to only a 76 key version. I'm so happy we have Korg around to really drive change and challenge the other manufacturers to innovate!!!


Its not about the sounds and styles any more as they are all top notch but more about the layout, navigation, and ease of use feature when playing live,....this is where KORG Pa4x, Pa1000 features shine way above the rest for the live performer in so many ways cool2



Edited by Dnj (10/03/17 06:57 AM)
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KORG Pa4x

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#438435 - 10/03/17 01:03 PM Re: Genos vs pa4x [Re: rolandfan]
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2173
Loc: Louisiana, USA
For the price of the Yamaha, it's a shame that can't include pretty much everything everyone is asking for!
_________________________
~ ~ ~
Bill

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#438457 - 10/03/17 08:59 PM Re: Genos vs pa4x [Re: rolandfan]
Jerry T Offline
Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 866
Loc: Phila. 'burbs, Pa. USA
In my humble opinion, Ketron still has the closest to live sound. I have Korgs, spent time with Yamaha, and to my ear, the Ketron, especially bass and drums sound much more 'real'.

Ciao,
Jerry

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#438459 - 10/03/17 11:43 PM Re: Genos vs pa4x [Re: rolandfan]
rolandfan Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 879
Loc: South Africa
Its not about the sounds and styles any more as they are all top notch but more about the layout, navigation, and ease of use feature when playing live,....this is where KORG Pa4x, Pa1000 features shine way above the rest for the live performer in so many ways

That makes alot of sense. And pa4x is cheaper too right.  

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#438469 - 10/04/17 03:09 AM Re: Genos vs pa4x [Re: rolandfan]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 8137
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
A lot of truth in theory... but final thoughts are a little slanted.. smile

9 out of 10 "performers" use a saved performance setting for a song with 4 one touch settings.... How much navigation does that take? grin

For the other 1 out 0f 10 "players"... navigation varies but is not critical... Learn your keyboard and apply your skill level the best you can smile


Some thoughts...I find it annoying with Korg... "pop ups" drive me crazy... It shows no thought was used in development and add ons..
A touch screen is suppose to eliminate this concept..

Cost effective...many better options besides the PA4x and Genos..

Korg 1000 or 700 for starters..

And what is easier to use then a Roland E-A7? (a third of the cost of Korg and a sixth of the cost of Yamaha)..

Nothing wrong with wanting the top models ... if getting ripped doesn't bother you... and you can afford them.. but you need to adjust your theory a bit.. grin


BTW: I thought the Yamaha demos showed superior sounds and drums to the Korg... I thought the Concert piano demo was excellent, and detail of the drums were some of the best.. Neither the piano or drums in the Korg excite me smile

What I don't like about Yamaha is the overall sound... The sounds are effects oriented..
They lose the live sound...
Has anyone ever altered the sounds effects to see if the sample quality is good enough to sound live on Yamaha keyboards?
Or does it destroy the sounds..

Years ago we use to strip down a sound of effects and listen to the sample quality .. This is what makes the sound better..
I guess that is why I always preferred Roland and their sampling procedure..(factory).
_________________________


www.francarango.com

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#438471 - 10/04/17 03:47 AM Re: Genos vs pa4x [Re: travlin'easy]
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3682
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By travlin'easy
I can clearly remember little old ladies paying $60,000 for an organ, and that was 30 years ago. smile

Gary cool


You triggered my memory to days in 1975-78 when I worked in sales at Avery Piano , at the time they were a Hammond organ and Steinway piano dealer. We routinely sold the spinet model called the "Aurora" at almost $5000, the larger model a console style was about $8000 as I recall we sold quite a few of those too. Both were big and lunky and didn't sound nearly as good as today's arrangers. That's the era when they dropped the tone generator system.
_________________________
Genos 61 key, Korg Pa4x 76, Yamaha s970

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#438472 - 10/04/17 04:20 AM Re: Genos vs pa4x [Re: rolandfan]
tassiespirit Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 223
Loc: Devonport, Tasmania, Australia
In the end , isn't it all about the quality of sound, that we produce that counts. It must satisfy us first, and that is where everyone is different. Some like Yamaha, or Korg or Roland even Nord for example.

Then comes how you get it our of that durn box the way you want it to be. If it don't feel right or sound right even smell right; you are not satisfied till you find it.

A new plastic box, always seems to mean to gain something but you loose something else, and the new PA1000 does that; same as the Genos does with the Tyros 5. You loose something! I don't know why they do that but they do.

The real question to me is do you get what you real need, and then want you want. If not can you compromise with it; them if so go for it.
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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it!

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