SYNTH ZONE
Visit The Bar For Casual Discussion
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#437610 - 09/16/17 03:05 PM Arranger players, I have a question..
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 8137
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
The arranger keyboard is a great instrument with many tools for us to use...

How many players here are old school players ?

Players that are comfortable to turn off the auto accomp.
Play left hand bass and comp with the right hand over a drum pattern..

I know Uncle Dave and I often play this way... I think we came up in an era that demanded you play left hand bass. We also used multi keyboards.. Live, no sequences and no audio files was the norm..

The beauty of the better arranger keyboards.... you can do this without any hassles.. The sounds are all great and we have decent keybeds..

How many of you guys/gals enjoy and play this way... Do you find it as rewarding as I do..

Sometimes I like to just add a rhythm guitar style part..

I dislike an all out style that sounds like every other player that owns the same model... Fact is , I rather play a standard midi file instead..

Am I alone with this logic? smile
_________________________


www.francarango.com

Top
#437628 - 09/17/17 01:24 AM Re: Arranger players, I have a question.. [Re: Fran Carango]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4533
Loc: English Riviera, UK
The all singing all dancing styles are designed for home hobby players who want to sound great without the wait, (Arrangers are nothing more than advanced versions of the easy play features of organs) pro musicians use them sparingly so that they can develop their own style, as otherwise (As you say) they sound like everyone else, which basically turns them into Karaoke Players.

The most disappointing thing these days is that people will tell you want instrument is being played by the sound/style, but won’t have a clue who the player is, whereas previously everybody identified the player by his style (No matter what instrument he was playing) which is always preferable. (Technology is a great servant, but too many players have let it become the master)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#437632 - 09/17/17 05:12 AM Re: Arranger players, I have a question.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 33881
Loc: Jersey Shore, NJ USA
if thats the case why even have an arranger....?
many kbs/pianos have on board rhythm patterns to accomp your left hand bass and RH sounds..



Edited by Dnj (09/17/17 05:54 AM)
_________________________
KORG Pa4x

“Be so good they can't ignore you.”

Top
#437634 - 09/17/17 05:48 AM Re: Arranger players, I have a question.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Riceroni9 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 577
Loc: Glen Rose, TX, USA
Hi Fran:

It's all about perspective but I can certainly see where you are coming from. If I were a performing player like you, Mason, Donnie, Uncle Dave and so many others... I would most likely nod my agreement and move on.

As a highly unsuccessful songwriter (LOL) the Arranger is a Godsend! I use mine at my little home studio just about every day. I settled on Yamaha because my "early days co-writer" had a Tyros and I traded him my old pickup truck for his old PSR-2000 so we could work in the same operating system.

As I progressed and he went back to his day job (real money, LOL) I had to learn to do the whole schmeer in song creation and production including singing. (Don Mason was my model since we both hail from the Southwestern U.S.... (at least that's the way the old history books defined the ArkLaTex.)

Being able to arrange my songs in different genres, using different instruments and to be able to vary the individual volumes, etc. is such a great tool. Multi-Pads add dimension I could never have imagined.

I don't play or sing well but over the years I have improved to a point where I'm not ashamed to "pitch" my songs to real artists, producers or other publishers.

I hope you guys know how much influence you have with me and how much I admire what you do for a living. Just wanted you to understand another point of view. The arranger (no matter what brand) is a fantastic tool for those without much talent, arthritic hands and limited budgets.

All the best, ----Dave Rice

Top
#437640 - 09/17/17 07:37 AM Re: Arranger players, I have a question.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1314
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Fran
Old School here. Never did much LH Bass but I can play the bass pedals really well. Lots of time and work went into that and money customizing my B3. Used to comp with my LH and solo with my right. For years with a drummer and then a drum machine. Loved playing that way but times change.
Depending on the situation just piano and vocal might do it. Then move up to LH Bass with Drum machine. Then add a minimal style or Midi track and play/sing along. An arranger can give you all those scenieros.
How big do you need to sound to cover the job ? And as discussed before how many sounds, styles , etc, do you really need ?
I like you miss the simplicity and the connected feeling I used to get playing, now, not so much.
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Crate XP800 PA, JBL 515XTs , EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

Top
#437641 - 09/17/17 08:04 AM Re: Arranger players, I have a question.. [Re: Fran Carango]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 12415
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
As an entertainer/singer/musician, I used everything the keyboard had to offer. I rarely played midi files, and often, did not play a single one during a 4 hour performance. I think the keyboard's bass player is one hell of a lot better than most of the bass players I've come across in my life, and the same goes for the drummer. While I played a pretty mean lead guitar when I was with my band, I still prefer playing that guitar with my right hand along with the keyboard's diverse and varied accompaniment variations.

I, for one, love those styles that kept the audiences on the dance floors, Bill, and rarely took the keyboard out of the van to play at home. Therefore, I was never a home player to speak, but instead, a PRO player that generated his entire income using all those dance and sing styles the keyboard had to offer. I know hundreds of other PRO keyboard players that do the same, many of which, including myself, that rarely unloaded his arranger keyboard from the van or car between jobs, which were daily.

Fran and I have always been on opposite ends of the spectrum with this issue. He enjoyed playing along with SMF but I can assure you than most of us never do that, including my old friend, Don Mason.

All the best,

Gary cool
_________________________
Yamaha PSR-3000 (2), PSR-S950, Bose L1 Compact (2), TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR (3), Barbetta Sona 32C, Crown CM311A (3), Samson Q7 (2), Samson Wireless, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, Morgan 33 Out Island Sailboat, and lots of other silly stuff!

Top
#437643 - 09/17/17 09:09 AM Re: Arranger players, I have a question.. [Re: Fran Carango]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 4471
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
I practice and rehearse using the BK7m as a drum machine (when I can't get a drummer). When using a drummer I use my Alexis DM10 Pro (except with my favorite drummer, who insists on bringing his own scaled-down acoustic set). I use pedals for slow tunes and LH bass on up-tempo tunes (arthritic knees). I only play organ but do occasionally use piano and brass from the VP770 mounted on top of my organ (KeyB Duo Mk111). On real gigs, I have only used organ (organ trio/quartet format).

As far as Arrangers go, whatever works best for you and what you feel most comfortable with. IN MY OPINION, styles CANNOT be tweaked to be made to NOT sound like ....styles. For that reason, I tend to lean towards Fran's position of using midi files (to play over) instead. The problem with that (IMO) is that unless the midi files are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to be played over (not just deleting the melody track), it's still going to sound a little 'cheezy'. That's because YOU have to respond to it rather than it responding to you (as with live players).

I think we all (well, most of us) agree that the most optimal playing experience is playing with other live players. Sadly, given the current economic clime, that is not always possible. For me (and ME ALONE), if I'm paying, I only want to see 'live' music. I don't even like seeing big stars performing to 'taped' backgrounds (although that is often the case). It's like the 'business' of music is more important than the 'art' of music. JMO.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

Top
#437645 - 09/17/17 10:09 AM Re: Arranger players, I have a question.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1314
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Gary
As i said it depends on the situation . Smaller venues Styles are fine but when you are trying to do Dance music which people expect to ssound like the original Midi files are great. Of course they need to be heavily edited to not sound totally fake.
I wish I knew of a Roland Midi to Style converter. I don't use many Midi backing songs now but would use far fewer if I had something like that.
And as we always say whatever gets the job done.
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Crate XP800 PA, JBL 515XTs , EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

Top
#437649 - 09/17/17 11:43 AM Re: Arranger players, I have a question.. [Re: cgiles]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 11194
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By cgiles

I think we all (well, most of us) agree that the most optimal playing experience is playing with other live players. Sadly, given the current economic clime, that is not always possible. For me (and ME ALONE), if I'm paying, I only want to see 'live' music. I don't even like seeing big stars performing to 'taped' backgrounds (although that is often the case). It's like the 'business' of music is more important than the 'art' of music. JMO.
chas


++1
_________________________
t. cool

Top
#437678 - 09/18/17 07:25 AM Re: Arranger players, I have a question.. [Re: Fran Carango]
sparky589 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 569
Loc: NJ
If you started with a piano background when younger, old school playing comes naturally. Of course an arranger for single performing was a huge advance and opening to a wider range of material and style. I never played piano, but started with accordion. Then midi accordion with arranger modules. But some songs and styles didn't fit with the image of the bellows pumper, so I progressed to a hybrid keyboard (Orla models) with keys on right and buttons for left hand (ala Jerry T). Not to mention to just sit down, power on and go was way easier and more comfortable after back surgeries and age. Auto accompaniment afforded me starting with single fingering to start then working my way up to multi finger chording. Ill probably never be a full left hand old school player. I accept that I may not call myself a "complete" keyboard player, but I don't claim to be, nor do I require anyone else's label. I know there are many exceptions here, but I've known many piano style players who don't know what to do with bellows and buttons, a skill that is not yet extinct. The genres I play in still have me alternating from midi accordion to keyboard on just about every set, whether as a single or with 5 or 6 pieces. So its been where you started, followed by ability, and need, to change and learn.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was..

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Admin 



Help keep Synth Zone Online