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#435378 - 08/01/17 06:45 AM IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS
organgrinder Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 347
Loc: ft. lauderdale, florida
I have been playing arrangers since they came out and I never needed a
DAW setup. Very old school here but I always was able to create just what I wanted on my arranger itself. If I needed more I just used a tascam recorder as in making a CD. To me there is no need for overthinking every note you play. I am mostly a find the right rythem and learn the song kink of guy. That way I have full freedom to play the song anyway I want,longer or shorter or in a medley or whatever. I am and still are a fulltime entertainer at the age of 74 and still took forward to going to work every day.Not many people can say that. I see the point in making a perfect track but to me Its more fun to just make it happen live every time I play. By the way there is no such thing as a perfect track. It depends on the player. So anyway when I hear or read all the daw words to me it sounds like a differant language. I guess I'm just old school but that's ok with me.
JUST MY FEELING. FOR ANYONE WHO HAS THE TALENT TO DO IT THE NEW WAY. GOD BLESS YOU

MEL
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#435379 - 08/01/17 06:51 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
organgrinder Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 347
Loc: ft. lauderdale, florida
By the way there is a real talent in picking just the right rythem for a song. I here a lot of people using the wrong rythem when trying to copy the original and totally missing the boat. It is not easy but it will make a big differance in the feel of the song.
Thanks for letting me rant
MEL
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#435380 - 08/01/17 07:04 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Good rant!

Gary
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#435382 - 08/01/17 08:32 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Mel, I agree. I'm a "find the style and play it" guy too. I do totally understand those who do multi-track recording, and I have done some in the past, but now it doesn't interest me.
I'm the same age as you and still working as well, so far. smile
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#435383 - 08/01/17 08:35 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
Mark79100 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 1661
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By organgrinder

Thanks for letting me rant


No..thanks for the "rant." I wish there would be more talk like what you said here.

Mark

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#435384 - 08/01/17 08:36 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I just wish I was still working.

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#435390 - 08/01/17 09:56 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: travlin'easy]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Mel, Like you and Don, I too am mostly a 'find the style and play it' guy for the majority of my audiences which are NH/AL venues ... I still do some multi tracking, sometimes adding 'back up singers' to the tune ...
But case in point about 'style and play', working an Assisted Living gig yesterday I was doing 'Down By the Riverside' to a strong shuffle beat and the crowd was singing all the 'Down By the Riverside' parts ... I just segued into "Goody Goody', "Just a Gigolo", and a number of others and closed the show with about 20 minutes of songs to that style with the crowd singing all the tunes ... They loved and the AD it and so did I ...
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#435393 - 08/01/17 10:27 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: tony mads usa]
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
I use an arranger, sometimes, for rough scratch tracks, and full-blown multi-track productions for scores. Been thinking of sending one of these projects to you guys to show the process.The breaks, tempo changes, fades to other audio samples, etc. in films require precise changes which are impossible to do on an arranger. Great tool to do roughs on, though.

Russ


Edited by captain Russ (08/01/17 10:29 AM)

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#435398 - 08/01/17 12:09 PM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: tony mads usa]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Mel I love your post, I could not have said it better. I also feel we must make room for the younger minds – their world is far more complexed.

John C.

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#435420 - 08/02/17 12:31 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6482
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Originally Posted By organgrinder
I am mostly a find the right rythem and learn the song kink of guy.
MEL


LMAO Mel "rythem" sure looks like a made up word.

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#435426 - 08/02/17 04:06 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: Nigel]
organgrinder Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 347
Loc: ft. lauderdale, florida
must have used DAW insteal of spellcheck. lol
MEL
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#435427 - 08/02/17 04:07 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
The Saint Offline
Member

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 690
Loc: Sydney Australia
Hey Captain, I cannot wait to here anything you might like to post here !!!!!!

Ray dance
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#435442 - 08/02/17 07:37 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: The Saint]
jingleman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 1292
Loc: The Villages, FL, USA
For me...the term "arranger" means to allow the musician to compose and try different instrumentation for a musical idea or song. Since I don't play out...having the flexibility to tweak and experiment with different mixes requires a daw. I would love it if manufacturers would provide 3 sets of stereo outs to give more post mixing options once recorded in the daw. Most arrangers require significant time digging in to tweak the tracks for adequate mixing.

At my age...I no longer have the patience for dredging through menus. Let me have the tracks raw for post production. Just my 2 cents!

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#435444 - 08/02/17 08:17 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: jingleman]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
just as the mom and pop stores are vanishing to corporate,so will the small acts, Bar Bands, OMB, etc, etc, disappear to the new generation, etc, etc, all that will be left is big production National live touring concert acts, cover tribute bands, and DJs, KJ's, etc,.. times they are changing look all around you,......yes you can pretty much bottom feed what's left NHs, small bar gig venues, or what have you left out there, ...it's a NEW day and a NEW world out there in the trenches my friends,....at least we still can enjoy playing as much as we want at home and make ourselves happy with our own music,...I know it's hard to hear but honestly if you open your eyes you will see it coming,...
Sorry for the gloomy report.....now wheres my KORG Pa4x I'm gonna sit right down and make my self happy playing it!! keys


Edited by Dnj (08/02/17 08:18 AM)

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#435445 - 08/02/17 08:41 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Dnj
just as the mom and pop stores are vanishing to corporate,so will the small acts, Bar Bands, OMB, etc, etc, disappear to the new generation, etc, etc, all that will be left is big production National live touring concert acts, cover tribute bands, and DJs, KJ's, etc,.. times they are changing look all around you,......yes you can pretty much bottom feed what's left NHs, small bar gig venues, or what have you left out there, ...it's a NEW day and a NEW world out there in the trenches my friends,....at least we still can enjoy playing as much as we want at home and make ourselves happy with our own music,...I know it's hard to hear but honestly if you open your eyes you will see it coming,...
Sorry for the gloomy report.....now wheres my KORG Pa4x I'm gonna sit right down and make my self happy playing it!! keys


Its changing... but not disappearing.
Where i live, the band scene is strong as ever.
the only thing that changed is the average age of the bands and the crowd.

OMB's have never been a big thing in town (contrary to other parts of the country).. small rock, blues, jazz and traditional bands have.

Deejays play only a minor part here. Atleast in the nightlife
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#435446 - 08/02/17 08:49 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Bachus Europe scene could be a different story then the USA

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#435452 - 08/02/17 09:20 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: Dnj]
Jerryghr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 1497
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By Dnj
Bachus Europe scene could be a different story then the USA


No gloomy report here.

Live bands are alive in the Buffalo/Niagara Area.

My wife and I have a tuff time deciding which band we are going to see.

Here a couple of examples. There are probably about 6 venues we visit on a regular basis to hear live music.

I can go every Tues at lunch time to the Sportsman's Tavern and hear my friends in a live 17 pc band for the cost of a lunch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn0i0i9PrBU&t=25s

http://rivergrillmusic.com/

https://www.templetonlanding.com/live-music

Regards,

Jerry


Edited by Jerryghr (08/02/17 09:25 AM)

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#435456 - 08/02/17 10:32 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Bands,including OMB, are still alive and playing most of the remaining venues here. I really have no idea what Donny is talking about. But what the Hell, I'm old and f-d up -what the Hell do I know.

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#435458 - 08/02/17 10:55 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Gary Im talking about whats coming in the future,.........but like you say what do I know?

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#435469 - 08/02/17 02:22 PM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Donny, no one, absolutely no one, on the planet can predict the future. If anyone could predict the future, he or she, would be the wealthiest person in the universe. For all you, or anyone else knows, about the future of music on the planet, it could just as easily revert to all big bands and jazz, groups. And, from what I have seen in this part of the world, DJs and KJs are pretty much on their way out, while duos, trios, and 5 to 6 piece bands have pretty much taken over in Baltimore, Washington, DC and Richmond. However, the total number of venues is slowly vanishing nationwide. More and more restaurants have eliminated live music because of the expense and liability. Same holds true for the local bars, which at one point, hired the vast majority of bands throughout the country. The big events will still be around, though. Jimmy Buffett and many of the top country entertainers will continue to hold massive concerts that draw 40 to 50-thousand spectators. The Glenn Miller Orchestra and Dorsey Brothers Band are still booked years in advance and sell out large venues in a matter of hours. Where any of these bands will be 10 years from now is anyone's guess. You don't know what will take place, and neither do I. I sure as Hell wouldn't take bets on DJs and KJs being at the top of the heap in another decade.

I've been hearing this gloom and doom BS about OMB entertainers and small bands from you for nearly a decade, and none of your predictions have come to fruition in all that time. In fact, from what I have seen between Baltimore and Key West, Florida and over to East Texas is just the opposite. I have traveled those areas extensively over the past decade, stopped at as many live music venues possible, talked with players, club owners, restaurant owners, etc..., and they all had no plans of hiring DJs or KJs. I keep in contact with my European and Asian friends, and they are booked solid. Maybe, just maybe, things are different in New Jersey, though I would take bets that UD will still be working as much as he wants in 10 years. In fact, I'll give you some pretty good odds on that one! smile

Gary (the dumb ass)
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#435470 - 08/02/17 02:31 PM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Again Gary sorry but lets just agree to disagree..

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#435472 - 08/02/17 03:13 PM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
I'm with Gary on this one ... I intend to be the last man standing! (sitting, kneeling, crawling .... but SINGING!)
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#435487 - 08/02/17 04:28 PM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I have noticed live entertainment venues have become more numerous around here again. A number of places now have bands on the weekends, and some on week nights as well. This is in addition to the six casinos, who have live music mostly seven days a week. None of them have DJs.
A number of small joints have Karaoke, but it's no longer the factor it was a couple of years ago.
I can think of maybe a dozen places I could book if I wanted to do so.
It's all good!
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#435490 - 08/02/17 06:16 PM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Originally Posted By Dnj
Again Gary sorry but lets just agree to disagree..


Guess that means I'm correct in MY assumptions. smile

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#435491 - 08/02/17 06:20 PM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
btweengigs Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 2204
Loc: Florida, USA
All this reminds me of a sign I saw at a local watering hole:
"If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong"

Eddie

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#435493 - 08/02/17 06:25 PM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
smile
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#435641 - 08/05/17 05:56 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
Riceroni9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1298
Loc: TX, USA
Hi Mel: Your point is well made. Technology and acronyms seem to constantly change and confuse those of us who cope with having a normal life, working with our keyboards and arrangers... and being constantly "dumbed-down" by the agenda driven media.

Eight track recording is fine for those who need it and want to do it... but the arranger makes all of that needless... at least for our purposes.

Hang in there and ignore "techno-snobs." You are not alone.

All the best, ----Dave Rice

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#435677 - 08/07/17 04:56 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: Riceroni9]
organgrinder Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 347
Loc: ft. lauderdale, florida
I'm not against the new things at all. In fact i even have some karaoke tracks for those songs that are inpossable for a live player to do by himself but i play along with it and i could perform it live by myself but it would not sound like what they want to hear. Thank goodness by pa900 will play mp3+g (Karoake files) and still allow me to play along.
It's just If you look hard enough you can find a very close rhythem on almost any of the popular arrangers. Thats good enough for my needs. I play nearly all nursing homes and condos but every once in a while I have to have some younger stuff handy when the younger set comes in or I get miss booked as a DJ. When will agents and party planners ever learn the differance between the two.
MEL
_________________________
KORG PA1000, KORG PA900, 2 BOSE S1 PROS, 2 BOSE L1 COMPACTS, YAMAHA STAGEPAS 500, ROLAND VP7

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#435689 - 08/07/17 08:44 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Originally Posted By organgrinder
I get miss booked as a DJ. When will agents and party planners ever learn the difference between the two.
MEL


Smile, set up recurring bookings and cash the check.
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#435695 - 08/07/17 09:51 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Ditto!
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#435696 - 08/07/17 10:15 AM Re: IS IT JUST ME OR ARE SOME OF YOU MAKING UP WORDS [Re: organgrinder]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By organgrinder
I get miss booked as a DJ. When will agents and party planners ever learn the difference between the two.
MEL


NEVER ! ... All the booking agent cares about is the booking, and they make the musician/entertainer handle the situation ...
I used to get bookings through an agent and they were mostly good gigs, but once in a while he would mis-book me, like the time a yacht club wanted a young female to play and sing 'top forty' music, and he sent me - bald, stocky, at the time in my late 60's, primarily Standards/50s/60s player ... the audience liked the music for the most part, but I was not what they were looking for ...
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