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#421954 - 06/03/16 01:43 PM Mixed Reception of Montage
rosetree
Unregistered


In one of the main German-language forums, the Montage is encountering quite a lot of criticism, although some are also excited about its sounds.

I think it is mainly the Motif and MoX(F) users who had already been waiting for a true Motif successor for many years (a lot of them regarded the 2010 Motif XF as a mere update of the XS, not a real successor) and had very high expectations. The Montage falls short of some crucial features. Core criticism seems to be:

- no full sequencer (often discussed here already)

- smaller free storage space for libraries (1.75 GB as against 4 GB in the Motif XF when using Mutec flash boards)

- NEW ISSUE: MIDI RESTRICTIONS: It is no more possible to assign midi channels to performance parts - part 1 is always midi channel 1 etc., AND: There are obviously restrictions in addressing performance parts via midi from an external controller! Unlike the Motif, the Montage doesn't "need" midi for the internal data exchange of parts, but the flip side is that an external controller can't address the parts via midi flexibly either. For example: To play two performance parts simultaneously as a layer from an external keyboard, in the Motif the two parts would have simply been set to the same midi channel. Now, it is only feasible if the external keyboard has the capability of two midi layered zones (!), something only sophisticated controllers are able to to. Very bad!

I think Yamaha took a high risk in confronting former Motif users with restrictions like this, and it may turn quite a number of users away - despite some beautiful sounds.


Edited by rosetree (06/03/16 01:48 PM)

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#421956 - 06/03/16 03:41 PM Re: Mixed Reception of Montage [Re: ]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4556
Loc: English Riviera, UK
The main problem with the Montage, is that everybody was expecting it to be a new workstation, whereas its only a synth, (A DX7 bought up to date) with all workstation functions being transferred to an iPad App (Or computer) at additional cost. (Yamaha marketing really dropped the ball on this by not hinting at it before launch)

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#421961 - 06/03/16 07:50 PM Re: Mixed Reception of Montage [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 640
Loc: Quebec, Canada
For me, the disappointment comes from discovering just recently that the Montage has no Performances similar to the Motif at all.

Let me explain: on the Motif, a Performance is typically made up of Drums, Bass, and Guitar, forming a sort of band. With your right hand, you have a main sound, like Piano. Well, I asked a few Yamaha demonstrators, and it was confirmed to me that there's nothing like that on the Montage.

The problem for me about the Motif's Performances was that you can only have 3 arpeggios running at once. The Montage can have up to 7. The eighth part you can use for a right-hand sound (main melody). I was excited about having that many arps, and thought it would get close to an arranger's 8 parts per style - until I found out.

So, not only does the Montage not have a full sequencer, it also doesn't have Motif-like Performances. In my case, if I get the Montage, it will only be for its acoustic and some orchestral sounds, like Woodwinds, Brass and Choir. The strings don't sound that realistic, unfortunately. I'll still need to get an arranger, and that's expensive. The Montage 6 is $4,000.00 here in Quebec (when it will be available). If I get a PSR-S970, that's another $2,500.00. If I get a Korg Pa4X instead of the PSR, that's $5,300.00 for the 61 key version. It adds up!



Edited by Mikem (06/03/16 07:55 PM)
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#421972 - 06/04/16 11:54 AM Re: Mixed Reception of Montage [Re: Mikem]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Mikem
For me, the disappointment comes from discovering just recently that the Montage has no Performances similar to the Motif at all.

Let me explain: on the Motif, a Performance is typically made up of Drums, Bass, and Guitar, forming a sort of band. With your right hand, you have a main sound, like Piano. Well, I asked a few Yamaha demonstrators, and it was confirmed to me that there's nothing like that on the Montage.

The problem for me about the Motif's Performances was that you can only have 3 arpeggios running at once. The Montage can have up to 7. The eighth part you can use for a right-hand sound (main melody). I was excited about having that many arps, and thought it would get close to an arranger's 8 parts per style - until I found out.

So, not only does the Montage not have a full sequencer, it also doesn't have Motif-like Performances. In my case, if I get the Montage, it will only be for its acoustic and some orchestral sounds, like Woodwinds, Brass and Choir. The strings don't sound that realistic, unfortunately.


I didn't know that. I knew that the former performance mode and song mode have been put together to a different performance mode with (at least) 8 live parts. But what's different about the arps that you can't use them like you could in the Motif? Can you explain in detail?

And your opinion about the strings: I had the impression you liked them very much first. Has your opinion changed due to some video demos, or did you play the Montage in a store?

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#421983 - 06/05/16 09:09 AM Re: Mixed Reception of Montage [Re: ]
musicforyourday Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 697
Loc: So California, USA
Having the Montage in my studio for about a month I find it to be a good complement to T5 not have a XF prior i can comment on all the other stuff , but i can say it records increadable it really cuts thru even the piano sounds that seem to be a little dark for my taste sound very real in a recording arena .

i have not gotten too deep yet just my playing calendar is just too busy but it really got great sounds lot of creative ones to get some unique stuff going the word is there is lot of stuff on the way for Montage I think if I was a XF owner I might miss the other stuff but nit being one no issue here and if you want a XF the stores are blowing them out good time to pick one up.
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#422026 - 06/06/16 01:14 PM Re: Mixed Reception of Montage [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: rosetree
Originally Posted By: Mikem
For me, the disappointment comes from discovering just recently that the Montage has no Performances similar to the Motif at all.

Let me explain: on the Motif, a Performance is typically made up of Drums, Bass, and Guitar, forming a sort of band. With your right hand, you have a main sound, like Piano. Well, I asked a few Yamaha demonstrators, and it was confirmed to me that there's nothing like that on the Montage.

The problem for me about the Motif's Performances was that you can only have 3 arpeggios running at once. The Montage can have up to 7. The eighth part you can use for a right-hand sound (main melody). I was excited about having that many arps, and thought it would get close to an arranger's 8 parts per style - until I found out.

So, not only does the Montage not have a full sequencer, it also doesn't have Motif-like Performances. In my case, if I get the Montage, it will only be for its acoustic and some orchestral sounds, like Woodwinds, Brass and Choir. The strings don't sound that realistic, unfortunately.


I didn't know that. I knew that the former performance mode and song mode have been put together to a different performance mode with (at least) 8 live parts. But what's different about the arps that you can't use them like you could in the Motif? Can you explain in detail?

And your opinion about the strings: I had the impression you liked them very much first. Has your opinion changed due to some video demos, or did you play the Montage in a store?


@Mikem, can you comment in detail?
From what I find in discussions, for the time being I still think there's a misunderstanding.
Quote from Bad Mister:

"Is the chord detection system in Arps in MONTAGE the same as MOTIF and MOX?
...The arps from the Motif and MOX/MOXF series are included in the Montage's 10,000 arpeggio types. The Montage can load Motif XF arps. So yes 'chord detection' is the same."

So there is a chord recognition with arps like in the Motif...

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#422055 - 06/07/16 11:54 AM Re: Mixed Reception of Montage [Re: ]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 5133
When you look carefully of the montage, you can see restrictions everywhere..

However, if you can accept the montage for what it is, a performance synth competing with the Jupiter80 (thats the instrument that comes closes to it in design philosofy) then chances are high you will love what your fingers get at ...

First people need to accept its neither a workstation, amd is also missing a lot of masterkeyboard functions people loved so much on the Motif. Series...

So what is the montage? Its mega sounding synth tweakable in many realtime ways...
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#422056 - 06/07/16 11:59 AM Re: Mixed Reception of Montage [Re: ]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 5133
Originally Posted By: rosetree
Originally Posted By: Mikem
For me, the disappointment comes from discovering just recently that the Montage has no Performances similar to the Motif at all.

Let me explain: on the Motif, a Performance is typically made up of Drums, Bass, and Guitar, forming a sort of band. With your right hand, you have a main sound, like Piano. Well, I asked a few Yamaha demonstrators, and it was confirmed to me that there's nothing like that on the Montage.

The problem for me about the Motif's Performances was that you can only have 3 arpeggios running at once. The Montage can have up to 7. The eighth part you can use for a right-hand sound (main melody). I was excited about having that many arps, and thought it would get close to an arranger's 8 parts per style - until I found out.

So, not only does the Montage not have a full sequencer, it also doesn't have Motif-like Performances. In my case, if I get the Montage, it will only be for its acoustic and some orchestral sounds, like Woodwinds, Brass and Choir. The strings don't sound that realistic, unfortunately.


I didn't know that. I knew that the former performance mode and song mode have been put together to a different performance mode with (at least) 8 live parts. But what's different about the arps that you can't use them like you could in the Motif? Can you explain in detail?

And your opinion about the strings: I had the impression you liked them very much first. Has your opinion changed due to some video demos, or did you play the Montage in a store?


Arps and performances are still pretty much the only thing that still work like on the Motif.. They just grew in size...


However you cant create your own arps on the montage... You require a motif to do that... And you can only have 256 user arps... Yamaha says you need to do with whats in the box, because people dont like nor have any need to create their own arps (quote by Bad Mister Phil)

As said... The Montage mostly consists out of restrictions taking away from musicians freedom and creativity..
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#422073 - 06/08/16 05:04 AM Re: Mixed Reception of Montage [Re: ]
AlenK Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/13
Posts: 32
Loc: Great White North
Can't create your own arps? Even the Casio XW-P1 can do that (although the nature of the achievable arps is not the same). What was Yamaha thinking?

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#422478 - 06/23/16 05:08 PM Re: Mixed Reception of Montage [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 640
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: rosetree
Originally Posted By: Mikem
For me, the disappointment comes from discovering just recently that the Montage has no Performances similar to the Motif at all.

Let me explain: on the Motif, a Performance is typically made up of Drums, Bass, and Guitar, forming a sort of band. With your right hand, you have a main sound, like Piano. Well, I asked a few Yamaha demonstrators, and it was confirmed to me that there's nothing like that on the Montage.

The problem for me about the Motif's Performances was that you can only have 3 arpeggios running at once. The Montage can have up to 7. The eighth part you can use for a right-hand sound (main melody). I was excited about having that many arps, and thought it would get close to an arranger's 8 parts per style - until I found out.

So, not only does the Montage not have a full sequencer, it also doesn't have Motif-like Performances. In my case, if I get the Montage, it will only be for its acoustic and some orchestral sounds, like Woodwinds, Brass and Choir. The strings don't sound that realistic, unfortunately.


I didn't know that. I knew that the former performance mode and song mode have been put together to a different performance mode with (at least) 8 live parts. But what's different about the arps that you can't use them like you could in the Motif? Can you explain in detail?

And your opinion about the strings: I had the impression you liked them very much first. Has your opinion changed due to some video demos, or did you play the Montage in a store?




Hi Rosetree,

First of all, I'm sorry I could not answer your questions. I was on a 3 week vacation in Alberta and British Columbia, Canada. Unforgettable Rocky Mountains and beaches (in Tofino, Vancouver Island)! Just got back last night.

Concerning the arps, I've read you cannot create your own as on the Motif. I can't go into detail, because I've never actually played one.

As far as the strings go, I've mentioned to you in another post that Montage (and other Yamaha keyboards, in general) have a kind of artificial "sheen" to them that preclude them from sounding very realistic. I'll take the Roland SRX-06 and SRX-04 strings any day. Again, this is based on more and more online videos, not from having played one in a store. Demos of woodwinds and brass sound top-notch, though.

I'd love to find a keyboard/module with rich, full-sounding strings, like Mantovani's. Do you know of any gear that offers this?


Edited by Mikem (06/23/16 05:12 PM)
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