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#415364 - 01/26/16 09:48 PM Re: Montage vs Kronos shootout [Re: Dnj]
shueymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 648
Loc: Lebanon, PA
I'll wait for the next update... They will double or triple everything and add Cubasis software inside the machine! 2019 NAMM?!?

OR... it may be time to go back to Korg and get a Kronos 2 for producing backing tracks!!

Time for Yamaha to slimline the Tyros and morph it into a songwriters/performers dream. Light weight... Slim look and style... Touchscreen...

Call it the Legacy... The best of Yamaha's past with an eye on future music!!!
_________________________
~Johnathan
"The Shueys"
www.shueymusic.com
Yamaha Genos - RCF M20x - RCF HD10A (Stereo) - Jupiter Pocket Trumpet - Sennheiser e935 - Neumann KMS-104 plus-N

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#416691 - 02/13/16 06:28 PM Re: Montage vs Kronos shootout [Re: Dnj]
ATCH Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/12/16
Posts: 2
There is no comparison. The Montage looks like a toy compared to the Kronos. Here's why:

The Montage offers FM-X synthesis which includes 8 operators and 88 algorithms. The Kronos blows this out of the water. The Kronos has 9 different synthesis engines. ONE of the engines is MOD7. MOD 7 is a full blown FM synthesizer with 6 operators and a patch bay for free routing normalization. However, In one EXi program bank on the Kronos, you can run dual Mod7 synths for a total of 12 Operators, 8 LFOs, 12 effects, and 4 multi effects per program.

It gets better:

In combination mode on the KRONOS, you can have a 192 operator FM synth with 64 LFOs. It freakin ridiculous. Compared to 9 synthesis engines in the Kronos, the Montage has 2 (AWM2 which is equal to HD1 and FMx which is equal to MOD7) The Montage also does not have a song mode or sequencer mode, however, unlike the Kronos... You can combine the AWM engine with the FM engine. You can combine engines on the KRONOS but HD1 programs have to be exclusive. The work around is to simply work in combi mode on the Kronos.

The "super knob".

The super knob is essentially a gimmick IMHO. It is nothing more than a macro. With AMS on the Kronos, it's nothing to assign as many parameters as you want to any knob, switch, or pedal on the Kronos. The user manual for the montage is around 86 pages. The user manual for the KRONOS is 400 pages...AND the parameter guide for the Kronos is an additional 1200 pages.

The motion sequencer on the Montage is interesting, however, the KRONOS not only has wave sequencing, it carries with it the ability to create your own drum patterns for RPPR and sequencing I'm addition to Karma which can run up to 4 GE modules per combi. The Kronos also has an additional drum track on every program which also can be edited.

The 76 key version of the Montage does not have weighted keys.

What is interesting on the Montage is the envelope follower. I like the idea of being able to step sequence envelopes. But that's about it. It boils down to the sound I think. I do like the Montage, and I think it would be a worthy addition to any studio, however, I'm not convinced that the price point is worth the feature list. I also don't believe that the Montage will be replacing the Motif. I will wait until the next iteration of Montage to make a decision about whether to purchase. For now, I will be adding a Futuresonas Parva to the Kronos to add an 8 voice true analog synth module to it.

These are just my opinions and are in no way meant to discourage anyone from the Montage. I may change my mind about it later... I'm in the cue for a Montage now but I might be cancelling my order.

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#416693 - 02/13/16 06:46 PM Re: Montage vs Kronos shootout [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: rosetree
Originally Posted By: Bachus

Not from Yamaha itselves, but from a reviewer... So not 100% sure..


Just read from Mr Kaye that the Montage had no SA voices. - But that can't be true; not even the normal SA... I suspect Yamaha simply don't want to use Tyros or old Motif terminology for the Montage. On the other hand it would be stupid not to highlight modeling technology for acoustic instruments... The legato of the sax I heard did sound like modeling... I guess we have to try out in the store or continue asking Yamaha directly.




Who cares about what they call a voice? I mean, if it sounds great and expressive like the SA voices in the Tyros, that's all that counts. smile
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Mike

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#416700 - 02/13/16 11:32 PM Re: Montage vs Kronos shootout [Re: ATCH]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: ATCH
There is no comparison. The Montage looks like a toy compared to the Kronos. Here's why:

The Montage offers FM-X synthesis which includes 8 operators and 88 algorithms. The Kronos blows this out of the water. The Kronos has 9 different synthesis engines. ONE of the engines is MOD7. MOD 7 is a full blown FM synthesizer with 6 operators and a patch bay for free routing normalization. However, In one EXi program bank on the Kronos, you can run dual Mod7 synths for a total of 12 Operators, 8 LFOs, 12 effects, and 4 multi effects per program.

It gets better:

In combination mode on the KRONOS, you can have a 192 operator FM synth with 64 LFOs. It freakin ridiculous. Compared to 9 synthesis engines in the Kronos, the Montage has 2 (AWM2 which is equal to HD1 and FMx which is equal to MOD7) The Montage also does not have a song mode or sequencer mode, however, unlike the Kronos... You can combine the AWM engine with the FM engine. You can combine engines on the KRONOS but HD1 programs have to be exclusive. The work around is to simply work in combi mode on the Kronos.

The "super knob".

The super knob is essentially a gimmick IMHO. It is nothing more than a macro. With AMS on the Kronos, it's nothing to assign as many parameters as you want to any knob, switch, or pedal on the Kronos. The user manual for the montage is around 86 pages. The user manual for the KRONOS is 400 pages...AND the parameter guide for the Kronos is an additional 1200 pages.

The motion sequencer on the Montage is interesting, however, the KRONOS not only has wave sequencing, it carries with it the ability to create your own drum patterns for RPPR and sequencing I'm addition to Karma which can run up to 4 GE modules per combi. The Kronos also has an additional drum track on every program which also can be edited.

The 76 key version of the Montage does not have weighted keys.

What is interesting on the Montage is the envelope follower. I like the idea of being able to step sequence envelopes. But that's about it. It boils down to the sound I think. I do like the Montage, and I think it would be a worthy addition to any studio, however, I'm not convinced that the price point is worth the feature list. I also don't believe that the Montage will be replacing the Motif. I will wait until the next iteration of Montage to make a decision about whether to purchase. For now, I will be adding a Futuresonas Parva to the Kronos to add an 8 voice true analog synth module to it.

These are just my opinions and are in no way meant to discourage anyone from the Montage. I may change my mind about it later... I'm in the cue for a Montage now but I might be cancelling my order.


You cant compare the Kronos to the Montage, its not a fullfledged Workstation anymore, but more of a performance synth...

But then, as a Kronos owner i can tell you that its not just Hosanna with kronos either.. The menu structure and touchscreen interface are based on last centuries ideas of what a good inteface should look like.. It really needs an update to make the Kronos more userfriendly when it comes to programming it.

Programming your own Karma stuff is rediculous, edditing excisting Karma parts is okay, but creating new ones from scratch is hellish. Not even basic arps are easy on Karma.

There is only 12 insert effects on Kronos.. thats a bit last century these days (Montage has 32, Kurzweil forte has 30+)

The HD1 engine still has no support for DNC voices


Its still a wonderfull instrument, that i love playing every day, but its also in demand for a huge update, mostly the user inteface..



Where the Montage rocks is its sound quallity, and newer interface.. but it can not do many things the Kronos cant do..

Next to the superknob, the so called motion sequencer is nothing but the option to change 4 midi CC over time for a single channel. Karma can do this, but also for example the Arpegiator in Casio instruments.

What i do like is the envelope follower, it allows for many fresh things, you can set up your arps and motion sequences in such a way that it follows the beat of a real live drummer. Super thing for live palying in a band. Also a tool solo players could use in different forms

The FM-X engine is what they once tried to archieve with the DX7, using cheep technollogy to recreate analogue sounds.. with the FM-X engine thats more advanced than previous Yamaha FM engines, you can make analogue sounds on top of the typical FM sounds..


Anyway, my opinion on the Kronos, its still the best out there, can do almost anything you want but it really needs an update.. (DNC, your requested analogue engine, the return of the MOSS engine) but also a pattern based sequencer like the Korg Gadget on ipad, a super creation tool, and some new arpeggiator next to Karma 4.0. .. The arpeggiator in AL1 does not cut it.

The Montage is a great instrument with superb sound and two topknotch synth engines, but i cant get over the stuff that isnt there, Sampler, pattern based sequencer, VL and AN synth engines. ensembles like the Tyros5, EAM and SCM technollogy.. No direct controll over the last 8 parts of a Performance and much much more...


Edited by Bachus (02/13/16 11:34 PM)
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#416725 - 02/14/16 07:33 AM Re: Montage vs Kronos shootout [Re: Bachus]
rb293 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 153
Loc: Binghamton, NY USA
I purchased the 88 key Kronos and sent it back... I could not get past the thumping sound of the keybed. Even when I played it for people they asked what is that thumping sound... It was the keybed... very loud for my taste and it seemed that was all I could focus on... The new version of Kronos still has the same keybed. There are a lot of complaints about the keybed online. Otherwise it was a great sounding keyboad. Ron

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#416726 - 02/14/16 08:15 AM Re: Montage vs Kronos shootout [Re: rb293]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: rb293
I purchased the 88 key Kronos and sent it back... I could not get past the thumping sound of the keybed. Even when I played it for people they asked what is that thumping sound... It was the keybed... very loud for my taste and it seemed that was all I could focus on... The new version of Kronos still has the same keybed. There are a lot of complaints about the keybed online. Otherwise it was a great sounding keyboad. Ron


Some of the early keybeds had this, some more then others, but not all of them. i have to state that i can barely hear my keybed on my Kronos 2 88. And while it is basically the same keybed, later series dont have this problem anymore, it was not the keybed, but the casing...
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Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#416730 - 02/14/16 09:52 AM Re: Montage vs Kronos shootout [Re: Bachus]
rb293 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 153
Loc: Binghamton, NY USA
that is good to know about the keybed if it holds true.... I will revisit the Kronos and roadtest the keyboard.... thanks Ron

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#416765 - 02/14/16 03:12 PM Re: Montage vs Kronos shootout [Re: Dnj]
Hal2001 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 154
Loc: U.S.
Jonathan,
Can you repost or update the link to this video? It won't play. I also entered "Montage vs Kronos shootout" in the YouTube search box and nothing similar appeared. Was that the title of the original video? Thanks.
Hal


Edited by Hal2001 (02/14/16 07:34 PM)
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My Music Channel is: www.youtube.com/Halunlimited
Korg Kronos 88 and Genos, Logic Pro, Omnisphere

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#416804 - 02/15/16 09:46 AM Re: Montage vs Kronos shootout [Re: Dnj]
musicforyourday Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 733
Loc: So California, USA
the only issue is weight factor I would like the 88 but it is 63lb so maybe the 76 it is 37.5lbs

these keyboards are built like a truck good build but very heavy .
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Genos, PSR S970, Fender Tele Amercian Deluxe Cherry sunburst , Cubase Pro 8 ,Yamaha A3M Acoustric ,Taylor 814, Ibenez Artcore Custom Tascam DP 32 Yamaha DXR 10, QSC K-12, K 12 Sub K 8 Sinn 945
2 Fender Expo line units .

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