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#414498 - 01/11/16 02:19 PM YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine!
rosetree
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Edited by rosetree (01/11/16 02:31 PM)

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#414500 - 01/11/16 02:39 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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Is the attachment within the linked post visible for you? (I'm logged in into that forum, so I can see it.)

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#414502 - 01/11/16 02:50 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Dnj Offline
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cool2


Attachments
Yamaha Montage copy.jpg




Edited by Dnj (01/11/16 02:54 PM)

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#414503 - 01/11/16 02:57 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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I wasn't sure if it's ok to post the attachment due to copyright issues, but now we have the source anyway:

http://www.onlinedigeditions.com/publication/?i=286673&p=224


Edited by rosetree (01/11/16 02:58 PM)

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#414505 - 01/11/16 03:38 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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So it is the "Music Trades" magazine, and it appears to be very credible information.
The total waveROM will then be around 7 Gigabytes, which sounds great. They don't say how big the maximum flash will be, this will determine the quality of future sound libraries. But I hope it will grow along with the waveROM.

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#414515 - 01/11/16 07:11 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
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Thanks for posting this great news, Rosetree! I have the Motif XF and have been anxiously awaiting its replacement. Normally, there's a 2 to 3 year wait for a new model. The XF came out in 2010, so I hope the Montage is a big leap forward in sound. Having about 7 gigs of rom in the Montage should definitely improve the sound.
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#414521 - 01/11/16 09:46 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Bachus Offline
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Originally Posted By: rosetree
So it is the "Music Trades" magazine, and it appears to be very credible information.
The total waveROM will then be around 7 Gigabytes, which sounds great. They don't say how big the maximum flash will be, this will determine the quality of future sound libraries. But I hope it will grow along with the waveROM.


It will also have an FM engine, sadly the VA and VL engines everyone was hoping for after the reface release are missing, surely YAmaha is holding them back for future versions of the instrument, as that is how YAmaha works..

its 256 voice poly, backward compatible with Motif XF and lets hope 32 channels of audio..


Wondering also if other technollogy from Tyros like SA2, ORgan world, ensemble feature have found their way to the montage.. and how about all those AWM technollogies we allready knew? SCM, VRM, AEM? it says the AWM enging is hugely advanced compared to previous models.

There is just not enough info there, about so many stuff, like how did they advance the ARP engine, how much expandabillity is there, will there be any VST/Cubase integration?

Cant wayt to learn more about the instrument.. atleast it looks very shiney.... and with Karma support and V-arranger running on a windows tablet, this might actually be a game changer..
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#414528 - 01/12/16 05:16 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Bachus]
Bachus Offline
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I just noticed, only 8 sliders...

I think this will get lots and lots of evil comments from ORgan players. Or just people that want a single does it all board with realistic B3..
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#414530 - 01/12/16 08:05 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
shueymusic Offline
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Very excited to finally have confirmation... Sell the old to buy the new. I've done nice recordings on the XF... I still use the Motif ES for church. More power with FX and processing power under the hood will be great!!

Touch screen in color... We'll see how that goes!!

Can't wait for demos!!!

Who needs a fully loaded Motif XF6?!?!?
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#414555 - 01/12/16 06:43 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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Originally Posted By: rosetree
I wasn't sure if it's ok to post the attachment due to copyright issues, but now we have the source anyway:

http://www.onlinedigeditions.com/publication/?i=286673&p=224


The Montage has disappeared from the online magazine again! Now, a guitar is shown on the same page. Let's hope it's just because Yamaha didn't want it out so early...

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#414556 - 01/12/16 09:31 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Bachus Offline
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Originally Posted By: rosetree
Originally Posted By: rosetree
I wasn't sure if it's ok to post the attachment due to copyright issues, but now we have the source anyway:

http://www.onlinedigeditions.com/publication/?i=286673&p=224


The Montage has disappeared from the online magazine again! Now, a guitar is shown on the same page. Let's hope it's just because Yamaha didn't want it out so early...


Lets just hope that it wasnt fully correct, and has more then just 2 synth engines... I think a AWM, FM, VA and VL synth would be what people atleast expected/hoped

pretty sure we will see it at namm
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#414561 - 01/13/16 10:16 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
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Edited by Mikem (01/13/16 10:18 AM)
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#414563 - 01/13/16 11:00 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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I love the word Vlaggenschepen - Flaggschiff in German and flagship in English, one of those remarkably similar words.
Anyway, it seems to be all over town, this thing is coming.

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#414565 - 01/13/16 11:41 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Mikem]
Bachus Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mikem


Its a free translation of the orriginal article that got deleted, no real information, they just copied pasted the article and added some fancy metaphores...

Still needs to be seen how much the orriginal leak had right, and how much information wasnt there...
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#414581 - 01/13/16 05:35 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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We will know more as soon as this link works:

http://4wrd.it/Montage

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#414587 - 01/13/16 09:22 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Bachus Offline
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Oops. The 4wrd.it URL that you entered isn't quite working. We're sorry about that. If you have questions about it, we might have answers. Send a note to paragon@yamaha.com and we'll see what we can do to help.

I think there could be other sources surfacing first
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#414595 - 01/14/16 04:05 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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Let's see. It's Yamaha's link to info material for dealers, I think. It was mentioned in The well-informed Sand Software website.

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#414601 - 01/14/16 07:35 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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According to

http://fr.audiofanzine.com/synthe-numerique/yamaha/montage-76/news/a.play,n.31466.html

the Montage has "4 GB of waveform storage" ("Mémoire de 4 GB pour les formes d’onde"). If this refers to the flash size for libraries, it would be a bit disappointing. But I wonder where they got the information from and if it is reliable.

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#414615 - 01/14/16 10:41 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
abacus Offline
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If Yamaha has taken FM synthesis to the next level it will be interesting to see how it compares with FM8

Also if that’s all it’s got then apart from more wave memory I can’t see much relevance to a new advanced arranger, so hopefully there is a lot more to come.

Bill
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#414618 - 01/14/16 11:39 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: abacus]
rosetree
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Originally Posted By: abacus

Also if that’s all it’s got then apart from more wave memory I can’t see much relevance to a new advanced arranger, so hopefully there is a lot more to come.

Bill


There is something relevant, but it has already been implemented in the PSR-S970: the new chip, which allows for more power regarding waveROM, polyphony and other qualities. The S970 is the first instrument to use it (hence the large waveROM), now the Montage, and it will surely be implemented into Tyros 6, while the 5 doesn't have it yet.
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/swp70-tone-generator/


Edited by rosetree (01/14/16 12:01 PM)

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#414622 - 01/14/16 01:05 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Bachus Offline
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Originally Posted By: rosetree
According to

http://fr.audiofanzine.com/synthe-numerique/yamaha/montage-76/news/a.play,n.31466.html

the Montage has "4 GB of waveform storage" ("Mémoire de 4 GB pour les formes d’onde"). If this refers to the flash size for libraries, it would be a bit disappointing. But I wonder where they got the information from and if it is reliable.


Same information and picture as in the article that started this all... Tough this also confirms 32 channels ( up from 16) and 4 GB user memmory (up from 2 GB)
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#414657 - 01/15/16 04:50 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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This is said to have been leaked on The Yamaha US site shortly. It looks real. No sequencer, only 1.75 GB free waveform storage, only 128 polyphony for AWM2 alone ( but for stereo voices, so, as a well-informed user says, that would still be twice the old polyphony when using stereo samples). Maybe you have to scroll down the page.
http://www.musiker-board.de/threads/yamaha-montage.630868/page-5#post-7767097


Edited by rosetree (01/15/16 05:11 AM)

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#414658 - 01/15/16 05:17 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
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Great find, Rosetree! Sounds very interesting. I can't wait to hear one. I'm curious to hear how good the orchestral sounds are compared to Kurzweil's, the Integra-7's, Motif's sound libraries and even VST's!
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#414667 - 01/15/16 06:38 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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The mentioned new piano, new strings etc. sound interesting. However I like flexibility in selecting additional sound libraries, and so I just hope the 1.75 GB flash is just a standard flash included and that it could be extended. With 1.75 GB of free waveform space it can never be a competitor to the Kronos. But we still don't know all the features...

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#414668 - 01/15/16 07:12 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
spalding1968 Offline
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If there is no internal sequencer then this board is a non starter for me . But the next few months will be a great time to pick up a used motif XF. It seems crazy to omit this feature given that it costs nothing more and there are still a lot of die hard musicians like me who want to thrash out the basics of a track on the instrument I play as the inspiration takes me .

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#414669 - 01/15/16 07:18 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: spalding1968]
rosetree
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Originally Posted By: spalding1968
If there is no internal sequencer then this board is a non starter for me . But the next few months will be a great time to pick up a used motif XF. It seems crazy to omit this feature given that it costs nothing more and there are still a lot of die hard musicians like me who want to thrash out the basics of a track on the instrument I play as the inspiration takes me .


Same with me, I'm used to the MoXF sequencer. For big projects I use Cakewalk Sonar, but often I prefer doing it right on the MoXF.
We don't know yet, the sequencer isn't mentioned, on the other hand there are play and pause symbols visible on one of the touchscreen pictures (but they might only function in connection with a connected computer(?)). I would rate it very stupid too if it didn't work standalone.


Edited by rosetree (01/15/16 07:19 AM)

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#414670 - 01/15/16 07:20 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Bachus Offline
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Originally Posted By: rosetree
Originally Posted By: spalding1968
If there is no internal sequencer then this board is a non starter for me . But the next few months will be a great time to pick up a used motif XF. It seems crazy to omit this feature given that it costs nothing more and there are still a lot of die hard musicians like me who want to thrash out the basics of a track on the instrument I play as the inspiration takes me .


Same with me, I'm used to the MoXF sequencer. For big projects I use Cakewalk Sonar, but often I prefer doing it right on the MoXF.
We don't know yet, the sequencer isn't mentioned, on the other hand there are play and pause symbols visible on one of the touchscreen pictures (but they might only function in connection with a connected computer(?)). I would rate it very stupid too if it didn't work standalone.


offcourse it will have an internal sequencer... it is full backwards compatible with the Motif XF..

it should also have the arps and the patternmode...
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#414671 - 01/15/16 08:38 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
spalding1968 Offline
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Not necessarily. Bacchus

It is fully backward compatible with Motif XF voices . The link this thread refers to says nothing about a conventional sequencer or compatabiltiy with the predecessors arps etc . If it is then that's great but I would not assume anything yet ....

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#414683 - 01/15/16 12:10 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
shueymusic Offline
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#414689 - 01/15/16 01:42 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: spalding1968]
Bachus Offline
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Originally Posted By: spalding1968
Not necessarily. Bacchus

It is fully backward compatible with Motif XF voices . The link this thread refers to says nothing about a conventional sequencer or compatabiltiy with the predecessors arps etc . If it is then that's great but I would not assume anything yet ....


Well, obviously not everything is in the thread.... But then, there is so much to tell about this keyboard, it cant all be in the thread..

In a few nights we will know...
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#414690 - 01/15/16 01:54 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Bachus]
Dnj Offline
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Wonder if Bert Smorenburg will be demonstrating the montage for yamaha?

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#414695 - 01/15/16 03:32 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
shueymusic Offline
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Bert is overly excited... But does a fun demo with lots of "easy for the average musician" lingo!

I am very excited for the demo videos!
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#414697 - 01/15/16 04:41 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
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Here's another teaser from Yamaha Corporation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mcr84bE95E
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#414707 - 01/16/16 07:23 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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And the first private-initiative Facebook pages are popping up:
https://www.facebook.com/yamahamontage/?fref=ts

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#414708 - 01/16/16 07:32 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Dnj Offline
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Montage vs Kronos ?


Attachments
kkkkkkkk.jpg

mmmmmmmmmmm.jpg




Edited by Dnj (01/16/16 07:34 AM)

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#414709 - 01/16/16 07:39 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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Ask me again when the question about the sequencer and the actual size of free library storage is clear.
Anyway, both Korg and Yamaha would only GET ME AS A BUYER IF THEY RELEASED A MODULE.

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#414711 - 01/16/16 08:31 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Bachus Offline
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Originally Posted By: rosetree
Ask me again when the question about the sequencer and the actual size of free library storage is clear.
Anyway, both Korg and Yamaha would only GET ME AS A BUYER IF THEY RELEASED A MODULE.


get a top of the line masterkeyboard, amd then montage, kronos, tyros, motif, integra, v-synth, norld lead4 rack all setup behind that keyboard easilly in reach...

Or just one workstation to do it all?

I know what i would choose... I tried the many modules track some time ago, but have decided to keep some of the insurance money in my pocket and go for 2 keyboards... One with 88 piano acttion and one with 76 key synth action.... Quite happy with that... Not even using my software setup much.....


However, i think if you want to go the software way, the new montage might be the perfect choice... With Cubase, V-arranger, biabox and Karma running on a windows tablet with the montage as audio device... Anyway, i don think you want to connect more then 2 (max 3) physical devices... To bad that the Montage does not have 16 programmable drumpads to the left side...

Makes me wonder if you can set up those microsoft service laptops in such a way that you can controll several apps over midi at the same time
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#414714 - 01/16/16 08:59 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Bachus]
rosetree
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Originally Posted By: Bachus

get a top of the line masterkeyboard, amd then montage, kronos, tyros, motif, integra, v-synth, norld lead4 rack all setup behind that keyboard easilly in reach...

Or just one workstation to do it all?



Well, I wouldn't like to carry your Tyros 5 and Kronos to a gig. So mostly I take my MoXF, or maybe in future rather the BK-9 depending on the occasion, and it's easy to additionally put the Integra into the equipment suitcase. But two full-size keyboards, no thank you.
If the Montage alone could replace everything, it would be great, but that's obviously not the case (and it wasn't to be expected). If it even really has no internal sequencer, as people in other forums seems to be convinced of meanwhile, I couldn't even use it like my MoXF, having a pre-recorded solo trumpet play together with my live strings/harpsichord part, just to take one example. And it's no arranger of course.
That's why I love module versions...

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#414725 - 01/16/16 11:24 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
shueymusic Offline
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Here's a link from someone on the Motifator.com page.

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?site:http://usa.yamaha.com&d=54046408837172896&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=UsP4S3v7rkldijUKwJHw8f8GvFfzlcu1#tab=feature
_________________________
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#414726 - 01/16/16 11:29 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: shueymusic]
Dnj Offline
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#414727 - 01/16/16 11:35 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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High-resolution pictures of the Montage display (originally taken from the Yamaha website when the Montage was still there) with qualified comments:
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-prelim-3/

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#414729 - 01/16/16 11:38 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Dnj Offline
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Kronos killer?

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#414730 - 01/16/16 11:55 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
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Too early to say, but it seems the Montage will not allow for the large Gigabyte libraries the Kronos can use with its streaming technology.
I think Yamaha have taken a different approach.

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#414732 - 01/16/16 12:52 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Dnj Offline
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I'm sure Yamaha is well of aware of Kronos abilities and will respond in aggressive manner.

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#414735 - 01/16/16 04:23 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
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Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: Dnj
Kronos killer?


I think you want either a montage or a tyros 5 on top of your Kronos..

Or a pa4x or kronos on top of your montage...

Kronos has so much to offer , as does tyros 5..... And the montage cant replace either of them ... Tough would add a lot to both of them..
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#414736 - 01/16/16 04:26 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
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Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: Dnj
I'm sure Yamaha is well of aware of Kronos abilities and will respond in aggressive manner.


Oasys/kronos technollogy is about 10 years old, its kind of late if the montage was a pure reaction to the Kronos... Amd just 2 engines is kind of thin...

I think however the Montage will challenge musicians creativity more then any other synth in a very long time... Its all about creating new sounds...
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#414749 - 01/17/16 04:09 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
spalding1968 Offline
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Loc: United Kingdom
But not about creating completed productions on the keyboard . This instrument cannot compete with a Kronos because it's simply not a workstation . No sequencer . This is a massive oversight and will immediately exclude buyers like me who still want to use a workstation keyboard and create musical ideas as they occur. What a waste of anticipation .


Edited by spalding1968 (01/17/16 04:14 AM)

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#414751 - 01/17/16 06:09 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
abacus Offline
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Loc: English Riviera, UK
Most of the write-ups/adverts call it a synth not a workstation, so missing a sequencer would not be unusual. (Synths are usually designed for sound creativity rather than anything else)

Not many more days to go now, before the whole cats let out of the bag.

Bill
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#414761 - 01/17/16 09:16 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


The Motif XF was a workstation. If the Montage and its future lightweight versions (MoXF successor) don't have an internal sequencer, they will lose the status of a workstation and surely not few potential buyers. That means abandoning a portion of the market.
Still not 100% sure I think.

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#414763 - 01/17/16 09:38 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: spalding1968]
Bachus Offline
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Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: spalding1968
But not about creating completed productions on the keyboard . This instrument cannot compete with a Kronos because it's simply not a workstation . No sequencer . This is a massive oversight and will immediately exclude buyers like me who still want to use a workstation keyboard and create musical ideas as they occur. What a waste of anticipation .


Nonsense...

The Montage will have a sequencer...

Its just not named in the article as only new features are named..


There will also be arps... Not named, but both have been reversed engineered from the pictures...
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#414764 - 01/17/16 10:02 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
musicforyourday Offline
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Posts: 733
Loc: So California, USA
I agree Yamaha will not put out a New Keyboard with out all the goodies unless they are looking to get into the price game with this unit , i do not think that is where they are going .

it gonna be TOTL unit with out a seq and other stuff would be crazy but they are looking to have DAW Intrgration esp with Cubase I am hopful this is where they are going .

it seems everybody is looking to go the DJ route or focus on modern music and synthy type sounds that is ok but I want pure sounds best Piano , sax, strings , Guitar , ect

it will be just a few days to see .
_________________________
Genos, PSR S970, Fender Tele Amercian Deluxe Cherry sunburst , Cubase Pro 8 ,Yamaha A3M Acoustric ,Taylor 814, Ibenez Artcore Custom Tascam DP 32 Yamaha DXR 10, QSC K-12, K 12 Sub K 8 Sinn 945
2 Fender Expo line units .

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#414765 - 01/17/16 10:38 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
Well I hope you are right Bachus but the montage seems to have been aimed at the Roland Jupiter 80 synth type product market and is not being marketed as a workstation as far as I can tell . Where are you getting your information that it definitely is a work station with sequencer and sampler etc ??? I see stuff about a motion sequencer but that seems to be more about sound manipulation . They are certainly pushing the cubase link and that is definitely not a new feature .

Anyway time will tell

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#414769 - 01/17/16 11:25 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


I don't know whether all of you are aware of the merger that has just taken place within the Yamaha group:

http://www.yamaha.com/news_release/2015/20151222.html
or direct PDF link:
http://www.yamaha.com/news_release/2015/pdf/20151222.pdf

The Yamaha electronics division (which included arrangers and synthesizers) have been dissolved as an independent division and merged with the general musical division.
I don't know if this is significant, but I would normally interprete this as a streamlining process that doesn't suggest expansion, but rather concentration on fewer, more profitable market segments.
Against this background it would make sense if Yamaha didn't try to release a flagship to "kill the Kronos", but rather focused on certain user groups like the young generation who like to experiment with new sounds and are particularly interested in the FM engine.
That would be very disappointing for my taste, as I have always been more interested in realistic emulation of natural, acoustic instruments (like many in this forum) and full workstation features with sequencer.


Edited by rosetree (01/17/16 11:26 AM)

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#414771 - 01/17/16 12:48 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: spalding1968]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: spalding1968
Well I hope you are right Bachus but the montage seems to have been aimed at the Roland Jupiter 80 synth type product market and is not being marketed as a workstation as far as I can tell . Where are you getting your information that it definitely is a work station with sequencer and sampler etc ??? I see stuff about a motion sequencer but that seems to be more about sound manipulation . They are certainly pushing the cubase link and that is definitely not a new feature .

Anyway time will tell


I disagree with you...

Montage is an advancement of the Motif in every possible way...

The new mobile sequencer is combining a traditional sequencer, with the arps and pattern mode from Motif, with features from Karma, arrangers, ableton live and new yamaha innovative stuff... Its using both midi and audio...

While the combination and integration of both awm and fm-x will be a huge step forward in sound comoared to motif xf--....


Jupiter 80 is mostly aimed for playing in bands... Not much accompaniment there.... But the Montage will shine when it comes to creating and playing dynamic accompaniments..
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#414772 - 01/17/16 12:53 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Bachus]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Bachus
I disagree with you...

Montage is an advancement of the Motif in every possible way...

The new mobile sequencer is combining a traditional sequencer, with the arps and pattern mode from Motif, with features from Karma, arrangers, ableton live and new yamaha innovative stuff... Its using both midi and audio...



You must have contact to an insider. From the information available so far we can't be sure about it, and the forums I have scanned speculate differently. Let's hope you're right, it would be great.

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#414773 - 01/17/16 01:05 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Why not just wait till it's released?

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#414783 - 01/17/16 04:41 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
shueymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 648
Loc: Lebanon, PA
At the age of 42... Christmas comes and goes so quickly. NAMM takes FOREVER to get here!!! We are all like a 6 year old waiting for Christmas!

The DX7 in the 80's was HUGE for Yamaha!!
The Motif line dominated nearly 15 years from 2001-2016. Again, HUGE for Yamaha!!

Montage... The combination of the DX and Motif success!!

I think, it's going to be the next step in Yamaha's pro keyboard development! And then 2-5 years later, they will do it again!!

Can't wait until Thursday!!!
_________________________
~Johnathan
"The Shueys"
www.shueymusic.com
Yamaha Genos - RCF M20x - RCF HD10A (Stereo) - Jupiter Pocket Trumpet - Sennheiser e935 - Neumann KMS-104 plus-N

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#414788 - 01/17/16 09:14 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: spalding1968]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: spalding1968
Not necessarily. Bacchus

It is fully backward compatible with Motif XF voices . The link this thread refers to says nothing about a conventional sequencer or compatabiltiy with the predecessors arps etc . If it is then that's great but I would not assume anything yet ....


the link also does not say anything about arps and pattern mode, yet the pictures prove it is still there, also the pictures show hard knobs for sequencer controll..the information in the link only concentrates on telling whats new...
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#414798 - 01/18/16 07:07 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
Greetings everyone. Absence makes the heart grow fonder as they say. cool It's been a while but everybody seems to be doing okay and of course people are excited about the new Montage which will likely be demonstrated at NAMM in just a few days.

The Montage is an interesting piece of equipment. It has 128 note 'stereo' polyphony and the obvious question is why didn't Yamaha just say 256 note polyphony instead? Maybe they worded it that way since it appears the FM-X sound engine only supports up to 128 note polyphony whereas the AWM2 sample based engine supports up to 256 note polyphony e.g. 128 note 'stereo' polyphony. Kudos to Yammie for doubling the polyphony for the AWM2 engine although carrying it over to the FM-X section would have been nice too. Oh well.

I have no doubt the Montage will sound great but if the price is sky high it could limit the overall sales quite a bit in my opinion. It is my understanding the overall sales of the Tyros5 have been less than expected and the high price tag is probably the main reason. The new Korg Pa4x is a bargain compared to the T5 and the Pa4x sounds just as good in my opinion plus the vocal harmony on the Pa4x is a lot better than the VH2 on the Tyros5. The reason I mention this is in order to relay the message to Yamaha Japan (via Steve Deming or whoever) to be more competitively priced so more people can enjoy the products they sell and to bring back missing features (and improve existing features) that people have come to rely on... like the onboard Voice Creator and a professional harmonizer would also be nice. Having said that...

The Montage appears to be a real advancement in sound reproduction. Several new patents were designed into the Montage and they will likely be implemented in the Tyros6 although Yammie might decide to change its name too. There is currently no mention of a sequencer on the Montage and I wouldn't be surprised if Yammie eliminated that feature to further integrate the computer aspect of music production. We'll find out in a few days but I find it rather odd there was no mention of a sequencer.

Other things to consider is that the Montage only has 8 sliders as opposed to the nine sliders necessary for tonewheel organ drawbar functionality. An authentic B3 emulation is really a must have feature for a high-end keyboard product although I think Yammie is touting the Montage more as a synth not a workstation. If it doesn't have a sequencer it will not be a workstation by definition.

Do I like the Montage? Absolutely! But Yamaha has mystified a lot of people including me. There are nine sound engines on the Korg Kronos/2 but the Montage will only have two which is actually one more than what's on the Motif XF. So there is reason to rejoice. It should be noted though that Yamaha had over 5 years to implement various improvements but in my estimation the final product leaves something to be desired especially if it doesn't have a sequencer or adequate B3 organs. I'm really looking forward to NAMM where a lot of these questions will hopefully be answered. If Yammie gives an MSRP of $8,500 for the 88 key version the street price will likely be around $6,000 + tax. An 8% tax (where I live) on $6,000 will bring it up to around $6,500 which could actually be a bargain if it turns out to be the bee's knees of what people are anticipating.

The Tyros5 has already been out more than two years and one has to think the Tyros6 (or whatever they decide to call it) will be soon forthcoming and perhaps by the end of 2016. In the interim there could be additional advancements included on the Tyros6 that aren't included on the Montage in its current form and that is even more intriguing if you're an arranger keyboard player. Save those pennies. cool

All the best,

Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#414863 - 01/19/16 06:18 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


The usually well-informed author of the Sand Software Sounds website derives from the pictures that both sequencer and arpeggiator are on board. Yes, the Arp On/Off buttons are clearly there, but I don't find real evidence for a stand-alone sequencer.
But not worth speculating much so shortly before NAMM start.

I just have the feeling that for my needs, which are 100% in the field of acoustic instrument emulation, the second engine, FM-X, is a waste, I would use nothing of it.


Edited by rosetree (01/19/16 06:19 AM)

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#414868 - 01/19/16 07:01 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
"We're told that this will be Yamaha's new flagship synth, so speculation is rife that it could be a replacement for the Motif range. That would imply that it'll be digital rather than analogue, and aimed at the higher end of the market."

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#414891 - 01/19/16 08:44 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: Dnj
"We're told that this will be Yamaha's new flagship synth, so speculation is rife that it could be a replacement for the Motif range. That would imply that it'll be digital rather than analogue, and aimed at the higher end of the market."


Its an evolution of the Motif, thats why a new name..

The mobile sequencer should be a cross between, Karma funtionallity, arranger(arp), pattern mode (like ableton live), an old fashioned sequencer and more...

16 channels 8 sets...
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#414898 - 01/19/16 09:04 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Bachus]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: Bachus
Originally Posted By: Dnj
"We're told that this will be Yamaha's new flagship synth, so speculation is rife that it could be a replacement for the Motif range. That would imply that it'll be digital rather than analogue, and aimed at the higher end of the market."


Its an evolution of the Motif, thats why a new name..

The mobile sequencer should be a cross between, Karma funtionallity, arranger(arp), pattern mode (like ableton live), an old fashioned sequencer and more...

16 channels 8 sets...


Dont be surprised is TYROS is finished and a new era will be born in a TOTL Yamaha arranger also down the road..

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#414908 - 01/19/16 12:00 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: Dnj
Originally Posted By: Bachus
Originally Posted By: Dnj
"We're told that this will be Yamaha's new flagship synth, so speculation is rife that it could be a replacement for the Motif range. That would imply that it'll be digital rather than analogue, and aimed at the higher end of the market."


Its an evolution of the Motif, thats why a new name..

The mobile sequencer should be a cross between, Karma funtionallity, arranger(arp), pattern mode (like ableton live), an old fashioned sequencer and more...

16 channels 8 sets...


Dont be surprised is TYROS is finished and a new era will be born in a TOTL Yamaha arranger also down the road..


An arranger will allways be an arranger first... And everything else behind that..

However, if they add a touchscreen to the Arranger line, they might change the name..
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#414942 - 01/20/16 10:55 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Bachus]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Actually i am really starting to hate this keyboard....

I am pretty convinced i have the perfect setup, Kronos+Tyros5... and i am quite sure that this keyboard will end this lovely feeling of having all one could wish for in a single setup...
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#414968 - 01/20/16 04:31 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


http://www.andertons.co.uk/synths-amp-wo...synthesizer.asp

Detailed pictures.
Again no indication of a full sequencer...

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#414969 - 01/20/16 04:42 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
musicforyourday Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 733
Loc: So California, USA
I will be there first thing tomm guys and will report on this to all

it look pretty cool it going to have deep intragration to cubase and other DAW

but we will see

also lot of other new things at the show as well

Nord Piano 3
Casio new arrang
PA4X
and hopefull some other things we don't know about ? I am goiug in early so be there first thing for any unvaling
_________________________
Genos, PSR S970, Fender Tele Amercian Deluxe Cherry sunburst , Cubase Pro 8 ,Yamaha A3M Acoustric ,Taylor 814, Ibenez Artcore Custom Tascam DP 32 Yamaha DXR 10, QSC K-12, K 12 Sub K 8 Sinn 945
2 Fender Expo line units .

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#414976 - 01/20/16 08:49 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
shueymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 648
Loc: Lebanon, PA
Andertons in the UK has the Montage 6 listed at 2169...

Looks like the US price will be around $2999.

This thing better have a sequencer!!

Perhaps a Performance is the combination of...
Voice/Pattern/Sequence/Motion Sequence

We will all find out in a few hours!!
_________________________
~Johnathan
"The Shueys"
www.shueymusic.com
Yamaha Genos - RCF M20x - RCF HD10A (Stereo) - Jupiter Pocket Trumpet - Sennheiser e935 - Neumann KMS-104 plus-N

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#414978 - 01/20/16 09:57 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: musicforyourday]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: musicforyourday
I will be there first thing tomm guys and will report on this to all

it look pretty cool it going to have deep intragration to cubase and other DAW

but we will see

also lot of other new things at the show as well

Nord Piano 3
Casio new arrang
PA4X
and hopefull some other things we don't know about ? I am goiug in early so be there first thing for any unvaling


i hope you can find out how much the motion sequencer has to offer to an arranger player
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#414981 - 01/20/16 11:41 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: rosetree
http://www.andertons.co.uk/synths-amp-wo...synthesizer.asp

Detailed pictures.
Again no indication of a full sequencer...


If this is correct then it's a huge disappointment and this instrument is off my radar . Having a workstation keyboard is about being able to do whatever it is you want to do musically right there in one place in time . I don't see anywhere that the montage has been presented as a workstation and the Anderton specs simply confirm this . It seems to be promoted as a true new synth with novel sound manipulation features . That's great for the synth heads around and will compare favourably with the Roland Jupiter 80


Today will be hopefully the final confirmation . I think the motif X will hold its value for quite some time now

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#414985 - 01/21/16 03:00 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: spalding1968]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143


Sudclaviers has 3 videos of the montage in French
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Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

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#414988 - 01/21/16 03:39 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


Sequencer is included!
Very heavy instrument: 15kg for 61 key Version
Specs:
http://www.musiker-board.de/threads/yamaha-montage.630868/page-13#post-7775747

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#414989 - 01/21/16 03:46 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: rosetree
Sequencer is included!
Very heavy instrument: 15kg for 61 key Version
Specs:
http://www.musiker-board.de/threads/yamaha-montage.630868/page-13#post-7775747


Its Yamaha.. But then, build quallity seems top knotch
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#414997 - 01/21/16 07:05 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
shueymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 648
Loc: Lebanon, PA
I've been a proud owner of the Yamaha Motif ES7 since 2004. It was a great advancement over the original Motif in 2001. Motif was the answer to Korg's Triton. Twelve years later, my Motif ES does the same job it was built to do. I use it every Sunday for Contemporary Christian backing tracks and the lead piano/keyboard sound.

I had a Motif XF6 from 2011 to last week (2016.) I sold it in anticipation of the new keyboard. New sounds always helped to make some nice arrangements. But, I wasn't using it as much as the ES. 8 elements per voice ate up the polyphony.

Now, on the dawn of NAMM 2016, I sit here wondering what's my next creative tool.

Stick with my 13 year old Motif ES (128 Poly) w/PLG-150 PF (64 Poly)

Utilize my PSR-S970 as my sequencing solution

Bite the bullet and get a MacBookPro with NI Komplete and Machine

Korg Kronos 2? Go back to my Korg roots...
M1 to O1/Wfd to Triton to Triton Studio

Is it worth $3000 for a new Montage as a advanced Motif?!? Time will tell!!

Happy NAMM to all on SZ!!
_________________________
~Johnathan
"The Shueys"
www.shueymusic.com
Yamaha Genos - RCF M20x - RCF HD10A (Stereo) - Jupiter Pocket Trumpet - Sennheiser e935 - Neumann KMS-104 plus-N

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#414999 - 01/21/16 08:14 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: shueymusic]
mirza Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/01
Posts: 1314
Loc: london,ontario.canada
[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/bgv5scoXcv8[/video]
_________________________
MIKIMIKI

TYROS 5,BEHRINGER X32PRODUCER,YAMAHA DSR112,JBL PRX618s XLF,EV ZLX12p,SENNHEISER E945,....ETC

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#415000 - 01/21/16 08:29 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: mirza]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143


there you go

Here is Bert....
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#415010 - 01/21/16 11:03 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered



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#415011 - 01/21/16 11:21 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


Correction: The Montage apparently has NO FULL SEQUENCER, but a Performance Recorder, i.e. a sequencer without editing functions.

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#415012 - 01/21/16 11:36 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


The Montage is definitely not a workstation like the Motif.
Quote from the FAQ (in bad English...):

"MONTAGE has Sampling function?
------------------------------
No. But MONTAGE can load wav file.

MONTAGE has Fully-functional Sequencer?
---------------------------------------
No. MONTAGE just has the simple sequencer "Performance Recorder". It does not have edit function."

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#415015 - 01/21/16 12:12 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


I just discovered something that could be shocking: There is just one mode left, "Performance mode". According to the FAQ, it seems that the old Motif voices (which had up to 8 elements) are now turned into performances. This would dramatically reduce the functionality of the performance with respect to the number of different sounds. - I'm trying to figure out more about it. confused

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#415017 - 01/21/16 12:50 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: rosetree
I just discovered something that could be shocking: There is just one mode left, "Performance mode". According to the FAQ, it seems that the old Motif voices (which had up to 8 elements) are now turned into performances. This would dramatically reduce the functionality of the performance with respect to the number of different sounds. - I'm trying to figure out more about it. confused


No, the 8 layers are still there, you just cant access them in a sepperate voice mode, but should be able to eddit the layers of all 8 voices in the performance mode...

Big advantage this way, is that changes to the voices are part of the performance..

Also the sequencer is very basic, just replay, no more edditing
No more pattern mode
No more Daw controll
No more PC edditor/vst
Only 1,75 GB of user memmory, not further expandable,... ( some people have 4GB in their Motif XF)

In many ways, its indeed a step back...
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#415018 - 01/21/16 12:54 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Here's a good demo by Blake Angelos for Sweetwater:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4jpJFMvqQ
_________________________
Mike

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#415019 - 01/21/16 12:58 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: rosetree
The Montage is definitely not a workstation like the Motif.
Quote from the FAQ (in bad English...):

"MONTAGE has Sampling function?
------------------------------
No. But MONTAGE can load wav file.

MONTAGE has Fully-functional Sequencer?
---------------------------------------
No. MONTAGE just has the simple sequencer "Performance Recorder". It does not have edit function."



And that's the final nail in the coffin . ......even the tyros probably has a better sequencer and I could not live with that despite the superior sounds . Like I said before , the motif XF are going to hold their value for a lot longer now . Anyone selling their Xs or XF would be in my view quite foolish given what we now know despite what wishful thinking we may have had .


Edited by spalding1968 (01/21/16 12:59 PM)

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#415021 - 01/21/16 01:13 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
You can see the way Yamaha is leaning..with "live control" in both the S970/Montage and for sure the next TOTL arranger be it a Tyros 6 or whatever they will call it..sit tight its coming soon.

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#415027 - 01/21/16 03:38 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5352
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Looks like the Montage is designed to try and get Yamaha back into the synth market where they dominated with the CS & DX range of synths, with the replacement for the Motif nowhere to be seen. (No indications of when this will happen either)

From the looks of it, the perceived idea that the Montage was a replacement for the Motif was just that, perceived, and not a reality. (Yamaha certainly had everyone fooled this time although I suppose they could add workstation features with an app)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#415028 - 01/21/16 03:45 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


I think so, too, it's not a successor. But they label it "flagship synth". Theoretically possible that the Motif name will be maintained in parallel...

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#415029 - 01/21/16 03:54 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Here's another demo from Blake Angelos, this time for Kraft Music. He doesn't talk in this one, he only plays. Orchestral sounds start at 7:00:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ronEbk462Yg


Edited by Mikem (01/21/16 03:54 PM)
_________________________
Mike

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#415030 - 01/21/16 04:03 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Here's one from Guitar Center:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXHMATih1wY



And don't forget this demo, with Orchestral starting at 2:49:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9wzev494_k
_________________________
Mike

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#415032 - 01/21/16 04:57 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


Sounds very good, as far as I could hear the demos (will have more time tomorrow). However difficult to judge without complete orchestral arrangements, spiccato, marcato etc...

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#415034 - 01/21/16 05:14 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
Wow looks and sound great. What a machine.

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#415035 - 01/21/16 07:30 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
In case someone hasn't seen this yet, it's a behind-the-scenes look at the development on the Montage. Interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23bqJfgqD_k
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#415036 - 01/21/16 08:08 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
This demo is from Namm with Blake Angelos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-L7L0aOKtI
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#415037 - 01/21/16 08:19 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Bert Smorenburg, anyone?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgv5scoXcv8


Prices at Sweetwater:

Montage 6 = $2,999.99
Montage 7 = $3,499.99
Montage 8 = $3,999.99
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#415045 - 01/21/16 11:32 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
I would love to know what Yamahas R& D Department were thinking. These are the same people that did some form of research and came up with a product called "reface" which had mini keys and could be bought as a collection of four mini key synths to get the full range. Who did they have in mind for this project? Munchkins?

And now we have this new product called montage. Who is it aimed at? All the demos so far that I have listened to did not blow me away either in terms of the realism of the sounds or the creativity to make the sounds. It seems the product is designed to compete with Roland Jupiter 80 performance synthesiser.

How many musicians do you know that own the Roland Jupiter 80? ......

This synthesiser is geared towards tweak head synth purists. This has to be a niche market and won't have any mass appeal. For the most part, the demos simply show off the motion sound features of this instrument. But that seems to me to consist of an old man simply holding a chord , jigging and manically bobbing his head to a paper thin beat and letting the sound change and morph for the next five minutes and faking he likes what he hears . Even the great Yamaha champion Berts demo looked like he genuinely did not know what the products main features were supposed to bring to the party musically . And he is the best Yamaha salesman out there .

Not really demos geared at musicians I know . But then I am in my mid forties . I don't play that kind of music.

I have been on the Yamaha motif forum and the musicians forum and the general feeling is what is this keyboard meant to be ?It is a performance synth with 16 tracks that can't be edited much in anyway on the machine . It has no sampler .

And it sounds ok regardless as to what synth engine is used . I am just scratching my head on this one .

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#415046 - 01/22/16 03:30 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
This latest Music Production Guide explains the features of the Montage:

http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductionGuide_2016_01_EN.pdf
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#415048 - 01/22/16 04:45 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: spalding1968]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: spalding1968
I would love to know what Yamahas R& D Department were thinking. These are the same people that did some form of research and came up with a product called "reface" which had mini keys and could be bought as a collection of four mini key synths to get the full range. Who did they have in mind for this project? Munchkins?

And now we have this new product called montage. Who is it aimed at? All the demos so far that I have listened to did not blow me away either in terms of the realism of the sounds or the creativity to make the sounds. It seems the product is designed to compete with Roland Jupiter 80 performance synthesiser.

How many musicians do you know that own the Roland Jupiter 80? ......

This synthesiser is geared towards tweak head synth purists. This has to be a niche market and won't have any mass appeal. For the most part, the demos simply show off the motion sound features of this instrument. But that seems to me to consist of an old man simply holding a chord , jigging and manically bobbing his head to a paper thin beat and letting the sound change and morph for the next five minutes and faking he likes what he hears . Even the great Yamaha champion Berts demo looked like he genuinely did not know what the products main features were supposed to bring to the party musically . And he is the best Yamaha salesman out there .

Not really demos geared at musicians I know . But then I am in my mid forties . I don't play that kind of music.

I have been on the Yamaha motif forum and the musicians forum and the general feeling is what is this keyboard meant to be ?It is a performance synth with 16 tracks that can't be edited much in anyway on the machine . It has no sampler .

And it sounds ok regardless as to what synth engine is used . I am just scratching my head on this one .


There just are to many contradictions in this product....

When you take away most of the functionallity of the basic sequencer then you can expect people to use a DAW for that functionallity like extended recordings and audio and midi creation... How smart is it then to also remove the DAW controlling functionallity..

This also is in contradiction with the full usb audio interface functionallity straight out of the box, ready for full DAW integration, and then they decide to not add a pc editor, which also is used to embed the Motif as a VST in your DAW..

And then they left so much soundengine out of the box, it makes the Montage rather thin in options not only compared to the JP80, but espescially to the Kronos... Not only the fact that they didnt add a VL or AN engine... But many other AWM features seem missing, SCM for piano samples, SA2, the Ensemble feature of Tyros... These are all thing one would expect in a Yamaha instrument that is announced as a TOTL performance synthesizer...

And only 16 part multitimbrallity where T5 has 32, and 128 voice polyphony for AWM2, where their piano's have 256 and up..

For that kind of money, i would have expected more...





However, still i think the Montage is a powerfull instrument... But its not something many people will NEED to have.. Its nice to have, and still trailing Kronos...
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#415080 - 01/22/16 10:02 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Bachus]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Bachus


Sudclaviers has 3 videos of the montage in French


Near the end, when the saxophone (wrongly titled trumpet at that point) makes a legato from D to G (at about 5:29), I am sure this legato cannot be done without modeling features. It's not just a legato like in the Motif, where the attack phase of the sample is just skipped (by scripting techniques).
This would mean that there is a form of SA2 voices in action.

The piano as well as the Seatlle String section sound truly outstanding. (The small section, well, I never liked this uniform vibrato very much.)


Edited by rosetree (01/22/16 10:32 AM)

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#415090 - 01/22/16 12:37 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Phil Clendenin gives us his take on the Montage. He starts at 2:13:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0cOd2cdVec


Edited by Mikem (01/22/16 12:37 PM)
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#415091 - 01/22/16 12:51 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Steve Barton shows us some of his favorite sounds. He starts playing at 4:26:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm-aINYoDMY
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#415106 - 01/22/16 03:40 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Phil Clendenin again demoing the Montage. Hear a bassoon at 1:55:

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#415117 - 01/22/16 07:42 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Nate Cheddar(?) does a great job of explaining the Montage in an easy-to-understand way. He says that the Montage is about 3 things:

1) Sound

2) Controlling the sound

3) Integrating it into your workflow

He then explains each of these, and shows how it's different from anything else out there.

The second half of the video shows Phil Clendenin playing various performances.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv4zErPCj-8



Edited by Mikem (01/22/16 07:42 PM)
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#415121 - 01/23/16 12:23 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Mikem]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
http://download.yamaha.com/search/produc...duct_id=2166246


There we go, the user manuall, now start reading..

I did, and it looks at first glance that adding Varranger and using the onboard buttons sliders and knobs to controll it will be possible
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#415143 - 01/23/16 07:06 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
A Bonners Music demo showcasing the Montage's presets:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6k3QSTCQRk
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Mike

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#415144 - 01/23/16 07:07 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
A piano shootout between Montage and Kronos 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6v58Syl1ZA
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Mike

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#415145 - 01/23/16 07:11 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Mikem]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: Mikem
Nate Cheddar(?) does a great job of explaining the Montage in an easy-to-understand way. He says that the Montage is about 3 things:

1) Sound

2) Controlling the sound

3) Integrating it into your workflow

He then explains each of these, and shows how it's different from anything else out there.

The second half of the video shows Phil Clendenin playing various performances.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv4zErPCj-8






*That's Nate Tschetter, not Cheddar. My apologies. I must've been hungry!
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#415146 - 01/23/16 07:16 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
you spend good money on a TOTL synth, ...then people look for "more sounds" to buy and add to it? why not just use what's in the KB,...isn't anyone happy with the factory sounds & tools?
I don't get it...?

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#415147 - 01/23/16 07:23 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Mikem]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Mikem

*That's Nate Tschetter, not Cheddar. My apologies. I must've been hungry!


No, that's just a perfect illustration of North American phonetics wink

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#415150 - 01/23/16 07:27 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Dnj]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Dnj
you spend good money on a TOTL synth, ...then people look for "more sounds" to buy and add to it? why not just use what's in the KB,...isn't anyone happy with the factory sounds & tools?
I don't get it...?


No, they aren't. Expandability of sounds has been a characteristic feature of up-market synthesizers for a long time. As individual preferences of sounds are different, it is a possibility to "individualize" the instrument to a certain degree. I want symphonic sounds, somebody else wants electronic dance sounds etc., it doesn't make sense to put everything imaginable into the instrument as presets.

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#415151 - 01/23/16 07:37 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: rosetree
Originally Posted By: Dnj
you spend good money on a TOTL synth, ...then people look for "more sounds" to buy and add to it? why not just use what's in the KB,...isn't anyone happy with the factory sounds & tools?
I don't get it...?


No, they aren't. Expandability of sounds has been a characteristic feature of up-market synthesizers for a long time. As individual preferences of sounds are different, it is a possibility to "individualize" the instrument to a certain degree. I want symphonic sounds, somebody else wants electronic dance sounds etc., it doesn't make sense to put everything imaginable into the instrument as presets.


I guess that the way these aftermarket people make their money, I could see it if your a pro musician playing music either live on stage, or studio recording, etc for a living,.. but to just sit in your living room and play for yourself seems like a very expensive way to go,.....enjoy whatever you play!.....

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#415152 - 01/23/16 07:48 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Dnj]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Dnj

I guess that the way these aftermarket people make their money, I could see it if your a pro musician playing music either live on stage, or studio recording, etc for a living,.. but to just sit in your living room and play for yourself seems like a very expensive way to go,.....enjoy whatever you play!.....


Not sure, you're not talking about me personally, are you? I don't sit in the living room playing for myself. I prepare orchestral playbacks for singers and have gigs with soloists and alone where I need good orchestral sounds. The instruments I presently use, MoXF with a few libraries of modest price and Integra, are not too expensive compared to a Tyros 5 or Kronos. The Montage would be too expensive for my needs and a waste regarding FM-X engine, but I hope a lightweight version will some time be released.

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#415153 - 01/23/16 07:55 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: rosetree
Originally Posted By: Dnj

I guess that the way these aftermarket people make their money, I could see it if your a pro musician playing music either live on stage, or studio recording, etc for a living,.. but to just sit in your living room and play for yourself seems like a very expensive way to go,.....enjoy whatever you play!.....


Not sure, you're not talking about me personally, are you? I don't sit in the living room playing for myself. I prepare orchestral playbacks for singers and have gigs with soloists and alone where I need good orchestral sounds. The instruments I presently use, MoXF with a few libraries of modest price and Integra, are not too expensive compared to a Tyros 5 or Kronos. The Montage would be too expensive for my needs and a waste regarding FM-X engine, but I hope a lightweight version will some time be released.


rosetree I'm not talking about you at all but in a general sense...
so many people have so much useless gear that isn't really needed is what I was driving at ....when I'm sure they could very well make beautiful music with so much less if they put their mind to it..good luck with your musical endeavors sounds very interesting.

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#415154 - 01/23/16 07:56 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Rosetree, since you own a MoXF, I was wondering if you can answer a question:

In Performance Mode on my Motif XF, I can play 3 arpeggios on the left, and 1 voice (melody) on the right. Does the MoXF play 4 arps on the left, and 1 voice on the right?

Thanks!
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#415155 - 01/23/16 07:59 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Dnj]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Dnj

so many people have so much useless gear that isn't really needed is what I was driving at ....when I'm sure they could very well make beautiful music with so much less if they put their mind to it


That's certainly true, and in part, for me as well. It's the Gear Acquisition Syndrome... the exaggerated wish to have a wide choice of sounds etc. one doesn't really need.

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#415156 - 01/23/16 08:02 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Mikem]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Mikem
Rosetree, since you own a MoXF, I was wondering if you can answer a question:

In Performance Mode on my Motif XF, I can play 3 arpeggios on the left, and 1 voice (melody) on the right. Does the MoXF play 4 arps on the left, and 1 voice on the right?

Thanks!


Oh, I have made such little use of arpeggios... but I guess one arpeggio requires one part, so as there are only 4 parts in a performance, I guess it's not possible to have 4 + 1. But I'll check.

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#415157 - 01/23/16 08:04 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: rosetree
Originally Posted By: Mikem
Rosetree, since you own a MoXF, I was wondering if you can answer a question:

In Performance Mode on my Motif XF, I can play 3 arpeggios on the left, and 1 voice (melody) on the right. Does the MoXF play 4 arps on the left, and 1 voice on the right?

Thanks!


Oh, I have made such little use of arpeggios... but I guess one arpeggio requires one part, so as there are only 4 parts in a performance, I guess it's not possible to have 4 + 1. But I'll check.



Thanks very much for checking! The reason I ask is that I think I read it somewhere, though I don't remember where.
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#415158 - 01/23/16 08:15 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: Dnj
you spend good money on a TOTL synth, ...then people look for "more sounds" to buy and add to it? why not just use what's in the KB,...isn't anyone happy with the factory sounds & tools?
I don't get it...?


This is not for people that just want to replay golden oldies.. (No pu intended)

This is for people that want to be creative on stage and create their own sounds and performances on stage, having your own samples and own sound is very important to them... I.e. Where many of the OMB's that play arrangers want to sound just like the orriginal, this beast is meant for people that want to be the orriginal...

In current music, sound creation is probably more i portant then mellody..


Edited by Bachus (01/23/16 08:16 AM)
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Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

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#415207 - 01/24/16 07:11 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Blake Angelos again from NAMM 2016. The audio isn't very good, but he does a great job at explaining the Montage. Orchestral starts at 7:50, for those who love those types of sounds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M16M9xxjM6U
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#415227 - 01/24/16 11:39 AM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: Mikem]
jp47 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/22/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Québec Can.
I don't think any arranger sounds like this, perhaps no workstation also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X2QACCwVzk

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#415253 - 01/24/16 09:32 PM Re: YAMAHA MONTAGE Presented in Magazine! [Re: jp47]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: jp47
I don't think any arranger sounds like this, perhaps no workstation also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X2QACCwVzk


The Montage is not a Workstation either..
its a performance synth..
Yamaha has left the Workstation buiseness for now
Probably because recording in a hardware instrument cant compete with a DAW

But...

About the sound
People that have heard it live all love it
Its massive and realsistic
Even true Analogue Synth devotees loved it
And they also agree this does not feel like a rompler
This feels like a real synthesizer.
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