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#388388 - 04/26/14 11:23 AM It's been too quiet around here..
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
My impressions of the Korg PA900,
after a couple days...testing it out (uncle Dave loaned me his)..

I am checking out the PA900, to see if it has value to me for senior center type gigs.
Namely a small, light keyboard with speakers and a mic input..

I have found some interesting things,,some pro..some con..

The construction is designed to be light...plastic ,
not unlike the BK series and PSR series (maybe the Tyros too to an extent.)

The keys feel okay, better than the BK5 and PSR s950, maybe better than the Tyros,
but close.

No after touch, but okay response from the action..

Most of the following will be comparison to the G70 as a benchmark,
and my experiences with BK5, E50/60 and PSR/Tyros that I had..

The BK5 was ideal for me..for Senior centers,
but I needed an external mic input (mixer).

The screen showing lyrics was small,
but actually about the same as the lyric view on the PA900.

The Korg does not show chords on the screen for SMF ect..
all Rolands do..

The player (MP3 ect) is the same as the PA800..too many button pushes,
better off with the BK5, although better than G70 (none)..

The sounds , are subjective, but still noticebly differenty.
there are not many acoustic pianos to choose (2), the good thing..
they are decent.
The EP 's are a strange mix, I did not like any compared to the BK and G70.
An example, I like a tremolo EP, all Roland's have a good one.
The tremolo reed EP on the Korg has an annoying sound on release of the key.
Maybe the reason Korg uses a phaser instead of tremolo on the more usable EP's.

There are usually one or two good sounds in each category,
but also a lot of useless sounds..
DNC and RX are naturally the better sounds on the Korg.

Across the board the better sounds are BK series, pianos , organ, drums ect.

The following points are mostly negative..

The audio inputs are terrible..
I ran the G70 into the ins on the Korg so I could compare the two,
via Korg speakers.
I could not believe what I heard, the Korg sounded so much better,
IT WAS THE INPUTS QUALITY..

I ran the 2 boards through a common sound system, and the truth was heard.
.the G70 out shines the Korg, easily in sound.

I think the audio quality via inputs may have to do with Dave's settings (I hope)..

Korg still has a stupid way of routing effects and the use of the mic,
losing an input from the external inputs.

The much raved about vocal harmonizer, doesn't compare to the G70.
Before anyone gets bent out of shape..try the G70 side by side.
The Roland VH, has a smart interface,
that analyse the chords for SMF, without the need to selcta track for info.
It also automatically detects the right set up, for chord, vocoder,
or any other VH detection needed.
All the parameters are easily selected with no glitches while playing live.
No risk of shutting down the sound (mute)..
as the Korg does with an easily accidental touch of a wrong button.

I also did not like the clarity of the mic/vh..it easily distorted..on the Korg..

The sequencer on the Korg was okay, not in the same league as the G70...
but way better than the BK5 (none).
The quick song capture was okay on the Korg..
the G70 a little better less buttons to select..Routing to the sequencer,
easily done on the G70, but a little complicated on the Korg...
and having to name a seq before you can sequence a new song
will stop the flow of your idea in a hurry.

The styles are good, I thougt the new styles were better with fills than previous styles.
The bad...I don't like using a style in all variations and when you select an ending,
this trumpet player takes over and he wasn't in the band the whole song.

Song books works okay, but I honestly believe the Roland user programs work better..
Also selecting external styles and playing immediately ,
are best on Rolands..G70 and BK series.

Getting around the keyboard during a performance..the winner is easily the G70..
The Korg is better than the BK5 because of the touch screen..
both the Korg and the BK5 are dependent of performance setting up,
they lack the ease in the G70.

Final thoughts:
Is the Korg PA900 a nice board..yes it is..If you need a light board, speakers, mic/vh
with touch screen, and 61 keys...it could be for you.
Value to dollar...a BK5 is half the price of the PA900,
No mic input,no sequencer,no touch screen..the rest are equal..

If I don't need to consider speakers ( and I don't need them),
maybe I should visit Bill Lewis and check out his BK9.

Right now, my only sensible solution for senior gigs..use the best board for me..The G70..
saving 20-25 pounds isn't worth the trade offs..

The G70 reminds me of my "old" 1973 Chevy truck I bought new,
heavy duty loaded out, 454 engine , automatic...
I had this truck for 29 years...Everytime I went shopping for a replacement truck,
I would leave the showroom, realising,
I had a better truck than what I just looked at..

Dave I won't need the whole week,
I had your board for 20 hours time testing it out..
all my questions are answered..
I can return it when ever you want..
maybe Monday night if you go to the Solo meeting.
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#388389 - 04/26/14 11:38 AM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Joesax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 216
Loc: Southern New Jersey
Fran

How does the Bk5 sound compared to the G70 or Bk9. Especially the pianos
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Tyros 3, Motif XF6, Quad Amp/Pre-Amp/DAC, Quad Monitors, Tascam Digital Recorder

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#388390 - 04/26/14 11:45 AM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Joesax]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Joe a lot of the BK5 sounds are better than the G70..like the sounds taking from the SRX boards, and the BK5 has newer drum kits..I haven't played the BK9 yet, but I know others have said it sounds better than the G70.. I like the pianos on all the Roland arrangers..and also the EP's..Other sounds I didn't mention that are far superior to other brands,,choirs and scats are the best on Roland G70, and BK's.
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#388393 - 04/26/14 11:53 AM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Joesax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 216
Loc: Southern New Jersey
Thanks Fran
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Tyros 3, Motif XF6, Quad Amp/Pre-Amp/DAC, Quad Monitors, Tascam Digital Recorder

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#388394 - 04/26/14 12:09 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Joesax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 216
Loc: Southern New Jersey
Like the sound of G70 & Bk9 but Bk9 more than I want to spend.
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joesax
--------------------------------------------------
https://music4stressedoutsouls.bandcamp.com/
Tyros 3, Motif XF6, Quad Amp/Pre-Amp/DAC, Quad Monitors, Tascam Digital Recorder

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#388395 - 04/26/14 12:28 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
I believe it's been "too quiet around here" because most of us presently have an arranger that meets (or even exceeds) our needs.

I'd be hard pressed to find another arranger that fills all my requirements as well as my Tyros4...plus, it's paid for!

The important thing, to me, is that my arranger will let me update sounds and styles as required, so I have the optional sound expansion card installed in my Tyros4, and a wealth of Yamaha and third party styles from which to make fresh new styles, or improve/enhance existing ones.

Fran, I think you'd have to look long and hard before you'll find anything to replace the arranger that has already been meeting your needs very well these many years.

Ian
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#388396 - 04/26/14 01:00 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
billyhank Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/12
Posts: 322
The Pa900 does have after touch, check the specs! ;-)

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#388399 - 04/26/14 01:06 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Fran you don't need that!! just use the G70 it does all you'll ever need...use your new tablet with it also.

BTW if Dave lent you the PA900 he must be getting tired of it? wink just sayin' coffee

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#388401 - 04/26/14 01:48 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: billyhank]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By: billyhank
The Pa900 does have after touch, check the specs! ;-)





Yep..it does have aftertouch..I believe the PA600 does not..BTW: only a few sounds have aftertouch set up from the factory..that was why it was easy to not notice..

I would have answered sooner, but I had to wait forever to boot up the 900 (2 minutes)and try aftertouch.. smile
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#388407 - 04/26/14 03:39 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: ianmcnll]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll
I believe it's been "too quiet around here" because most of us presently have an arranger that meets (or even exceeds) our needs.

I'd be hard pressed to find another arranger that fills all my requirements as well as my Tyros4...plus, it's paid for!

The important thing, to me, is that my arranger will let me update sounds and styles as required, so I have the optional sound expansion card installed in my Tyros4, and a wealth of Yamaha and third party styles from which to make fresh new styles, or improve/enhance existing ones.

Fran, I think you'd have to look long and hard before you'll find anything to replace the arranger that has already been meeting your needs very well these many years.

Ian


Well said young man, did I just says that??? confused2
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#388410 - 04/26/14 04:51 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Yep! wink

Gary cool
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#388411 - 04/26/14 05:56 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2071
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
Fran please don't do anymore reviews if you aren't going to elaborate OK. It's annoying.

Man showing the chords on the screen helped me to figure out how to voice the sus chords and the # and b 9th 13th etc the way the i30 handled them. That would be a turn off for me.
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#388412 - 04/26/14 06:02 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
How about a Bobby Goldsboro tune I recorded.. smile

http://francarango.homestead.com/Honey.mp3
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#388413 - 04/26/14 06:15 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2071
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
Fran I don't give a crap what Dave says about you, you're clean man not sloppy at all and I enjoy hearing all of and the correct chord changes. If ya want to turn me off play bad chords, that does it for me every time.


Edited by brickboo (04/26/14 06:19 PM)
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#388416 - 04/26/14 07:05 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Sorry Fran ... your punishment for thinking that the Roland VH is better is that you HAVE to keep the 900 till after my show (HAIRSPRAY) closes next weekend.
smile
On another note - your singing has improved. Stay closer to the mic, you sound better when the signal is stronger and constant.
I knew you'd try to make it sound like your G70 ... thank GOD it doesn't. As for the audio ins ... you only have tone control over the Mic input, and not the general ins (stereo or mono). I don't have any issue using the input as long as the signal has it's own tone shaping. The mic input is not as wonderful as the VLT2, but it still sounds better to me than anything built it. (including your Holy Grail)
wink
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#388450 - 04/28/14 03:34 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Uncle Dave]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Nice job Fran on a oldie but goodie brings back alot of memories.
Just a bit too much reverb fx on the vocals otherwise, ....
keep them coming after all "it's been too quiet around here"
on SZ... cool2

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#388452 - 04/28/14 07:15 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
KORG80 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 654
Fran,

That song has always put a lump in my throat and listening to your version did exactly that. Never mind any technical issues. You sang that with passion and I enjoyed it very much. I need to add that song to my repertoire. Thanks for bringing back the memory.

God Bless,
Don
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God Bless,
Don

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#388456 - 04/29/14 09:20 AM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Fran, funny my wife and I were talking about that song yesterday. A few years ago, she planted a little tree in the back yard. Ice storm broke it and she staked it up. Nobody expected it to even live, but now it is about 30 feet tall.
BTW, nice job on the vocals!
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#388509 - 04/30/14 09:47 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Don,

Isn't it about a loved one that died, in the UK we call it "The Cedar Tree Song"

Ceeda tree, how big its grown
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#388510 - 05/01/14 06:35 AM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
smile
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#388620 - 05/05/14 09:43 AM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
For what it's worth both the Pa-600 and Pa-900 are being built in China whereas the top of the line Pa3X is built in Italy. Chinese production quality has improved quite a bit over the last 10 years I might add. Italy, on the other hand, is well known for producing top quality products with a focus of attention on detail. I have yet to play the Pa-600 or the Pa-900 because Guitar Center still doesn't carry them at any of the local GC's in my area. By the way, I noticed that Guitar Center is in big financial trouble owing approximately $1 billion to their creditors. I suspect that some of the keyboard companies are hesitant to ship their products to GC outlets because of the financial mess they're in. On the other hand Yamaha continues to ship products to the Guitar Centers in my area which is nice to know. I would have kept the PSR-s950 if not for the few minor inconveniences I had with it. Examples being the really cheesy keys, an inferior Vocal Harmony and being unable to navigate the keyboard buttons in low-light venues. Other than that it was a nice arranger. wink

Korg has just released the new Pa-300 arranger and from what I've gathered it's made in Italy although don't quote me on that. But it only has half as much WAV ROM as the Pa-900 but in contrast it has the same amount as the Pa-600. I've heard several people's opinion about the Pa-900 and most of what I've heard has been good. But there is a fly in the ointment where one guy said he actually sold his Pa-900 and bought a PSR-s950 and the reason he gave was the Yammie sounded better to his ears. To each his own I reckon.

I see Fran is still bragging about his G70. cool For what it's worth I played the G70 and wasn't all that impressed. To each his own I reckon. grin

Arrangers being built today are superior in many ways but in other ways not so much. Case in point, the sound quality has improved quite a bit but the overall build quality has taken a hit if you ask me. Plastic, plastic, and more plastic and the internal components have also taken a hit in some ways too. For instance the PSR-s950 Vocal Harmony components are inferior to the Tyros 1 which I owned but sold a few years back. I also think the Pa-900 VH ain't the greatest either although it's somewhat better than the Yammie in my opinion. Hopefully the Pa4x Vocal Harmony will be a step above the Pa3x but only time will tell. 256 note polyphony would also be a game changer but for whatever reason the Big 3 has milked 128 polyphony for all it's worth and therefore we might be stuck with 128 for another decade or longer which is just plain wrong in my opinion. I have harped on doubling the polyphony for a long time now but it keeps falling on deaf years for the most part. Ketron has upped the ante and Roland actually doubled it on the Jupiter-80 but it's a synth, not an arranger.

PS: Fran said it's been too quite around here so I thought I'd chime in. Glad to see our good friend Don Mason is back on his feet. Bypass surgery techniques have improved quite a bit over the years and so has the recovery time. My advice to Don is stay healthy and a big part of doing that is eating healthy.

All the best, Mike wave


Edited by keybplayer (05/05/14 09:49 AM)
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#388622 - 05/05/14 01:30 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: keybplayer]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
hey Mike it was a comparison I guess I could brag with the results though
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#388629 - 05/05/14 05:11 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: keybplayer]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: keybplayer
I see Fran is still bragging about his G70. cool For what it's worth I played the G70 and wasn't all that impressed.


keybplayer With a broad statement like this about the G70 it would be nice to hear more on the reasons for your dislike? confused1

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#388630 - 05/05/14 07:56 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Dnj]
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
Greetings Donny. A few years ago Guitar Center had a G70 on display and I played around with it for a while and went through the sounds, etc., but unfortunately I was less than thrilled with it. Other people obviously disagree with my assessment and as I said before to each his own. cool

By the way in my previous post I meant to type: falling on deaf 'ears' when I was talking about polyphony. Sorry for the typo. Now where was I? Oh yeah. The G70 is built like a tank and for that matter so is my Fantom G7. The G70 has a lot of nice features but I was disappointed with the less than stellar sounds that I demo'd. Although the display model was likely 'out of the box' sounds and I'm sure you could tweak them to make them more suitable to your preference. Hey, if Fran thinks the G70 is the bees knees then more power to him. I happen to disagree with him but it's still a very nice arranger. And I enjoyed his song too.

I'm chomping at the bit trying to decide which arranger to get. I miss arrangers and in fact I started out playing on arrangers before anything else. I was seriously considering a Tyros5 76 key but I felt Yamaha dropped the ball by giving it the usual 128 note polyphony. Some people complained the Tyros 4 had note drop off so I was surprised when Yammie didn't address the issue on the Tyros5. Oh well. I figure the Pa4x will cost around $4,000 but I really don't expect Korg to double the polyphony. Korg has been playing catch up when it comes to polyphony. For years it was 62 note then 120 and finally 128 on the Pa-900 thank God. But even 128 note polyphony doesn't cut it any more especially if you compose complex arrangements. It doesn't take rocket science to double the polyphony to 256 and a prime example is the Casio PX-5S that I have mentioned before and it costs less than a grand but as we know it's not an arranger unfortunately.

I hope to check out the Pa-300 when it hits store shelves but that could be six months from now or even longer since Korg is mighty skimpy when it comes to delivering their arranger products to the Guitar Centers in my area. I know I know. I could buy something sight unseen online and take it back if I'm not satisfied and I might end up doing that since one of the Guitar Centers in my area is a hop skip and jump away. I really like to play them beforehand if at all possible but the times they are indeed changing and from what I understand the Big 3 is focusing primarily on online sales as a way to trim costs and meet their sales objectives. And for all we know Guitar Center might not be in business five years from now because of the financial mess they're in.

All the best, Mike



Edited by keybplayer (05/05/14 08:00 PM)
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#388632 - 05/06/14 05:25 AM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Mike thank you for clearing that up with your reply on the G70.
Sounds like 256 poly is a must for you .....do you create complex arrangements? If so why not forget an arranger and continue being happy playing synths like the ones you have or Kronos, Motif etc,.. which for your needs seems to be better equipped in many ways vs an arranger. Everyone has different needs when choosing an instrument....bottom line is producing great music there are no rules ..

Good Luck

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#388692 - 05/08/14 07:45 AM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
256 polyphony would be nice Donny but 128 will have to do for now because that's all that's available. Except of course the Audya which has 192 polyphony but it only has USB 1.1 plus the price is sky high. That wouldn't be so bad if it also had USB 2.0, better styles and a larger user memory, etc.

Unless something drastically changes during summer NAMM 2014 or winter NAMM 2015 I'm basically stuck between a rock and a hard place. As I stated previously the Big 3 could milk 128 note polyphony for several more years and they might actually be colluding with one another in order to "fix" the polyphony amount at 128 as a way of controlling the market. But as we know that tends to inhibit progress and innovation. We are basically at their mercy and they realize that and therefore they have a tendency to milk certain features and they do it because it's beneficial for them from a business standpoint. Consumers have to put up with it or go without. In my case, if a keyboard doesn't meet certain criteria I will generally look elsewhere. On the other hand, Yammie, Korg and Roland are betting the farm that most people will take the 'bait' hook, line and sinker. The Tyros5 is probably a good example of that in my opinion.

Now before people start shooting flaming arrows in my direction the Tyros5 does have some new sounds that are in some cases superb but the B3 organs are still sub-par and of course it still only has 128 note polyphony. Again, people complained that the Tyros4 experienced note drop off but Yammie decided it was business as usual. Furthermore, the Tyros5 still costs around $6,000 out the door. The sad part is Yammie is laughing all the way to the bank because the Tyros line continues to sell like hotcakes. Which means that most people obviously don't care about various shortcomings (or the lack of quality control, especially on the Tyros5) and continue to shell out the big bucks for what are at best incremental improvements on the Tyros5 in my opinion. To each his own I reckon. wink

The Korg Pa-300 has piqued my interest because it looks like a solidly built arranger at a bargain basement price and it also has 128 note polyphony. Once I get the hang of playing an arranger again I will at some point upgrade to perhaps the Pa4x or some other high-end arranger product that will hopefully have 256 note polyphony but obviously I won't hold my breath if you know what I mean. cool

All the best, Mike


Edited by keybplayer (05/08/14 07:50 AM)
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#388712 - 05/08/14 03:12 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Mike why do you need 256+ polyphony? What complex arrangements would eat all that up and in what situation?

If drop outs occur on what you have now....
please post a few demos of it happening so we can hear what your talking about.

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#388715 - 05/08/14 03:39 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi DNJ

Have a look at most decent organs and you will find they have a minimum of 256 notes so that they don’t get notes dropping out when playing.

Arrangers with their limitation of a single keyboard are not as critical as you are limited to the amount you can play, but as soon as you start sequencing (To fill in the gaps) it can soon gobble up all the available polyphony. (8 track Midi sequence with 4 note chords (Plus basic single layer voices) means 32 notes have already gone out the Window, plus if there are any sustaining voices you have to allow extra (Say 40 notes) to cover it)

Multiple layered samples also eat up polyphony as each layer requires its own note.

Bill
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#388719 - 05/08/14 04:03 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
128 is more then enough for me ......I have never had a drop out with the music I'm performing on stage with any of my arrangers to date.......

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#388735 - 05/08/14 07:40 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
Bill is right Donny. Sustain plus multi-layered voices and also three right hand voices simultaneously on the newer Korg arrangers. Combine that with a left hand voice which in many cases is multi-layered and then on top of that multi-pads, styles and also midi files, all playing simultaneously, will eat up polyphony real fast.

I've exceeded the polyphony on my Fantom G7 on occasion and it's not an arranger. Arrangers are multi-faceted instruments that are polyphony intensive. For instance, just playing in auto-accompaniment mode can drain polyphony rather quickly, especially if you use the sustain pedal. Keyboard manufacturers utilize software algorithms in an attempt to minimize the effects of note drop off. But algorithms only provide minimal relief and in reality when you exceed the polyphony limit notes do get cut off and that can be unnerving in a live performance setting. If notes get cut off you won't hear certain sounds (notes) that you are attempting to play and in which your audience deserves to hear. But they won't if you run out of polyphony and quite frankly it is relatively easy to do on an arranger.

If the Big Three doubled the current polyphony standard to 256 it would create huge excitement within the music community. Keyboard players of all stripes have repeatedly asked the Big Three to double the polyphony to 256 but so far it has gone largely unheeded. There are a few like the Roland Juptier-80 and Casio's PX-5S plus certain Yammie Clavinova's and one or two Kawai's and that's about the extent of it. Only the Clavinova is an arranger and they cost an arm and a leg unfortunately. There are some portable organs that have 'unlimited' polyphony but again they aren't arrangers.

By the way, I noticed the Pa-300 doesn't have stereo outputs and so I wouldn't be able to hook it up to an external sound system which is a deal breaker for me unfortunately. I've been itching to play the Pa-900 and if Guitar Center gets one in I'll be sure to demo it if I can. Sometimes they get something in stock but they won't put it up on display for whatever reason. If things don't pan out here locally I might end up purchasing something online. Stay tuned.

All the best, Mike





Edited by keybplayer (05/08/14 07:43 PM)
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Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#388737 - 05/08/14 09:48 PM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: keybplayer]
shueymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 648
Loc: Lebanon, PA
I don't know if it's possible, but I would like to see different polyphony on different "modules" within an arranger or a workstation. I think the Korg Kronos does this but with built-in soft synths running in Linux.

Within one board, you could have these...
128 Note Piano Module
64 Note Organ Module
128 Note String Module (Different Articulations)
64 Solo Instruments (Like the SA2 and DNC)
128 Note Synth Module (Other Sounds Needed)
64 Drum/Percussion Module

These numbers can be any thing that works. I have full orchestrations that sound very big coming from 32 note polyphony. I can be done but the multi layering is the problem. A string sound sounds very thick... but you are using 4 layered multi samples to make the thick sound. Put a few more fingers down and a sustain pedal and bye-bye first note!!!

Each one working on it's own polyphony system. They can even call it Multi Polyphony Systems... MPS!!

Memory is always getting cheaper! Be the brave company to break the "glass ceiling" of polyphony and give us power for our $4000-$5500 spent! Then spend your time supporting and upgrading the unit instead of replacing it every 2-3 years.

Be Brave and take the Leap!!!
_________________________
~Johnathan
"The Shueys"
www.shueymusic.com
Yamaha Genos - RCF M20x - RCF HD10A (Stereo) - Jupiter Pocket Trumpet - Sennheiser e935 - Neumann KMS-104 plus-N

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#388761 - 05/09/14 10:50 AM Re: It's been too quiet around here.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
All SC sound engine based Roland keyboards handle polyphonic well..128 polyhony is fine, as most of the early 64 were..

Per arranger the polyphony is handled in this way..Priority goes to drums first (always allowing a mininum of voices), than bass, etc for the most important parts..each with a mininum voice..

The next important way to handle polyphony is last note reserve ..that allows the first note to drop off, making it almost impossible to hear..

I have never heard a drop off on any 128 voice Roland arranger that I have played..

I have had drop offs with Yamaha arrangers (low priced PSR's would mute all sounds till it recovered..what a nightmare).yet a Roland 24 and 28 voice SC board (E-66), would have no noticble drops, thanks to priority voice allocation..

Todays 128 Roland's are more than enough in the arranger line..

I should mention the MediaStation was 256 voice, never dropped out, even though it didn't seem to have the advanced allocation Roland uses...it relied on pure numbers..

G1000 64 voice was fine, as the Korg 62 voice...I recall the 126 voice Yamaha 9000 Pro , did not fare well in layerd pianp/strings...very noticable.(probably poor allocation method)

Another consideration that will save polyphony..Use of sample "parts" (Roland).."elements" (Korg), and whatever Yamaha calls it sound events..

Most of your better sound designers use 1 or 2 sample parts (elements)..keep in mind it will use a polyphony part for each element triggered..The use of velocity switched sounds and velocity filtering save polyphony..Better sound design takes advantage of this..

The key to using less parts/elements are bigger , fuller samples..limiting the need for more partials (elements) needed..
Filtering and changing of the larger samples does not use more polyphony, as added parts and elements do..

Here again is where the Roland G70 or BK series shines, most are 1 or 2 partials (complete samples)..compared to as an example 4 element Korg sounds (use 4 polyphony) for a single sound..
Velocity switching sample tones is a big reason Roland handles polyphony better than it's competition..

Just some things to think about, while you try to understand the polyphony issues..


Edited by Fran Carango (05/09/14 11:19 AM)
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