Its been released and people still are complaining just seeing demos, no one has one yet....and really people?.. what more could you ask for in an arranger KB and WHY may I ask?

Thoughts ?

Donny anybody who complains about this unit is plain crazy its going to be great lot of very nice upgrades I am looking forward to it T5 76 FOR ME.

Ron agreed !!

I was wondering about the same thing ... when someone posts "It's good but I expected more..." it would be nice if they said what it was they expected and where the unit falls short ...

I expected more audio, not only drums. I expected midi loops that could simply be browsed into a style. No, I don't havr a Yamaha now, but these would really have made for a serious upgrade.

Henni

I think the upgrades are very good, and in keeping with Yamaha's policy of the new arranger not suddenly making the last model suddenly obsolete.

But, for those thinking it needs more, or who want something with a different overall sound, there certainly are other fine 76-note arranger choices available in the PA3Xpro and, for those on a more stringent weight and dinero budget, Roland's cute little MOTL BK-9.

Ian

Ok. since you asked.
I'm not really into the big production stuff that sounds like a cinema or that it was done in a full-scale production studio. Sounds as if this would be terrific for that.
I do like the guitar sounds, but they were already great in previous models.
I still don't like the size of the case, though weight isn't bad.
They are not telling us in the demos whether they are using audio drums or midi. The ones that sound really good are probably audio. If they are midi, then there are improvements. If they are audio, then there probably aren't enough of them and new ones probably can't be easily obtained or created. I'm still not hearing the realism of Ketron, Roland, Korg, as far as listening to a live combo-type band. In all fairness, maybe they just aren't demoing it in that manner.
I think the vocal hits or yells are hokey and not really usable much in many real situations. At least not in my real situations. I didn't use the ones on Audya either. As far as the lead-type vocal sounds, I still much prefer the triple-touch function that Roland uses, where you can switch between three options via varying key pressure. I'm hoping we are only seeing and hearing the tip of the iceberg and that are other great things to be discovered.
The double midi/audio player is old news, and I don't use the one I have. DJs might. And they might use the voice cancel feature, although I have yet to see one that works very well. If you are doing DJ stuff primarily there are far better options than an arranger keyboard.
I'm sure the samples that can be loaded are still in a proprietary format.
Multiple line outs are nice. They may be catching up with Ketron and Korg. They make it sound ground-breaking. It's not.
Still no facility for adding light-weight, low-cost foot controller with multiple functions, as far as I can see.
It does sound really great, if you want to hear a polished song that sounds as if it were done in a big studio, yet retain live control of everything. It would be amazing in a studio environment and probably put lots of mediocre pickers out of work. However, the studios are not going to do that, because they look down their noses at arrangers.
I don't think it sounds that much different from previous Yamahas, but there is absolutely no fair way to evaluate this or any other arranger without sitting down and playing it. THEN if it blows your mind, it means something.
Just an opinion of a tired old guy.
DonM

I wish Yamaha kept the "jewel" industrial design and make the Tyros look more edgy (pun intended). Seems since T2 every iteration seems more and more bland. It's a flagship - make it look like one.

As I have pointed out in the past...

Limiting multipad audio to one shots, and no loop capability should be the one thing ALL Yamaha users should clamor to have added

Why should be obvious...

I'm one of the people underwhelmed with the T5, so I will try to answer your question:

First thing you need to know is that almost all the innovations on the T5 (audio multipads, time stretching, pitch shifting, audio styles, new DSP section) have already been available on the s950 for a year - so they aren't quite innovations that are getting us excited.

- My biggest problem is the fact that the Audio multipads cannot be looped or programed to start at the beginning of a measure (like MIDI ones can). Not to mention that you can't time stretch or pitch shift them. This is such a pity because the technology is available in other places on the keyboard and these features would completely change the way we use our keyboards. These features (or even just one of them) would be a game changer. The way it is now, it's just a limited tease.

- Lack of memory. The Tyros 3 released in 2007 had 6MB of User Ram - which was too little even back then. The 2013 T5 has how much? You guessed it - 6MB. At a time when memory is SO CHEAP, this is just a joke. By contrast the Korg Pa2x had 20MB, and the Pa3x 256MB. The reason USER memory is so important is because it is instantaneous. Running a style from the HD takes a lag of a second or two which could mean your new style starts a measure late.

- 1GB of Flash RAM. Some of us were really hoping for more memory. Considering that I already had 1GB of RAM installed on my T2 (launched around 2004/5), we figured in 2013 we could get at least 2GB as is available on the Motif. Those of us who are heavy pro users are having our options greatly reduced by this limitation.

- Size: I fly to many of my gigs. This year alone I flew 80,000 miles in the USA and Canada alone with my T4. Problem is the Tyros is oversize which can cost up to an extra $200 EACH WAY ($400 round trip). (The Korg Pa3x by contrast comes in undersize and can be flown with for free).

- Drums: This doesn't bother me so much anymore as I spent a lot of time and money sampling my own drums which are a thousand times more punchy and real sounding than Yamahas. But I just don't understand why Yamaha doesn't get it - even Yamaha knows that real drums are necessary (which is why we now have Audio styles), so why don't they give us punchier drums kits (like Korg, Roland, Audya and others). The T5 doesn't even have ONE extra drum kit over the T4, which is the first time this has ever happened in the history of Yamaha TOTL arrangers.

- iPad editing: I wish we could plug the T5 into an ipad and edit the sounds and styles (the way that can be done with a PC). I haven't yet seen an app for this on iTunes or Yamahas website.

- I read the entire owners manual, reference manual, and data list and see NO instructions on making custom audio styles. If this is indeed the case, the Audio styles on the T5 are just a gimmick. Power users and ethnic musicians do not rely on Yamaha's styles - I perform 150 shows a year and very rarely will use a Yamaha style (except for the new EuroPack which I highly recommend). If I cannot create my own custom audio styles, I really have no use for the feature at all.

These are the things that bother me the most. There are other things that bother other people depending on their preferences and on how they use the keyboard. For people such as yourself and others here that use the Tyros "out of the box" or "plug and play", this is an AWESOME keyboard. For professionals on the other hand, this keyboard is a walled garden.

I hope that answers your question.

Chony all great points, ....but as always we have the choice to buy or not if it does or doesn't fill the p[layers needs and everyone has a different need. Some will upgrade, some will not, some dont have the funds and wish they did, some will wait a year or so to but cheaper, Tyros 5 can not please all.

Nicely put, Chony.

Prepare yourself for the usual Yamaha excuse of 'it's fine by me, I don't NEED those things'...

Of course all the time, a little voice inside is going 'but if it did, I would!'.

DNJ, your question was "what more could you ask for in an arranger KB and WHY may I ask?" and that is the question I tried to answer - and I believe I answered it well. If your question had been "if you don't like it why buy it", I would have answered differently.

The answer to your new question is that although the T5 is just an incremental upgrade to the T4 (as opposed to a giant leap), it is still an upgrade. I've already invested 10 or more years into the Tyros and it does have other advantages over the Korg -- so although I'm extremely disappointed and feel Yamaha has missed an opportunity to become the undisputed leader, I still have use for the new model.

A great point is a great point. Especially when it answers the question actually ASKED...

But it's nice to see a Yamaha user actually acknowledge the points. Hard to get any of them to pull their heads out of the sand...

All valid points.When it comes to sampling, why not adding akai or some other well known format for user samples.
Also we didn't hear new drum kits.Those once in demos are audio styles.And I believe for audio styles there is only 128 mb.
First impression for me is I think this is going to be same thing like with T3.Couple years later they came out with T4.

They said release date is today.But, there are too many questions unanswered.
Clearly Yamaha is going for a quick sale like this.The cat is still in the bag even though we saw a glimps of it.

I read a post on the psrtutorial forum that says the audio pads DO loop. Not sure if it's true.
DonM

I am completely on board here with Don and Chony. I don't buy any arranger because it has wonderful features unless those features fit into my gig needs. The onboard styles must support the music I play on gigs or the keyboard is not a wise
purchase for me. I think the T5 will be an outstanding instrument for either the home player looking for that polished complete sound or the person who does serious studio type recordings. Another group that will love the T5 are those who do nothing but multi-track recordings. I'll probably go back to the T4 or take a serious look at what Roland comes up with in the near future if the rumors are right. Who knows. I still have the S950 and Chony is right - some of the features advertised on the T5 or on my S950. Meanwhile, I'am really enjoying how much I can get from my Roland BK-9 - even though it frustrates the living H@@l out of me sometimes.

I think on this one I'll wait until I can actually sit down and play one.

Deane

Yep, I heard from several people, besides yourself, Deane, that the BK-9 was a bit of a chore to master. That's the problem with each manufacturer doing things in what they seem to think is the best way.

You had it up for sale...are you planning on keeping it instead?

Ian

For me, the only reason to purchase another, newer keyboard is improved sounds and ease of use while performing live. I'm real comfortable with the S-950, at least thus far, and for the life of me I can't find a good reason to upgrade or change to another brand. On this particular issue, Fran and I have something in common. Fran and I both played the same arranger keyboard, different brands though, for a decade. We have all the work we can handle and our audiences love what we provide for them.

Something I always find interesting is the stock statements that something, some sound, etc..., just won't cut it for today's younger audiences. I especially hear that about Yamaha's MOTL and TOTL arrangers. Today, I fired up and performed Waking The Dog, and about 1/4-way through the song the entire kitchen staff came into the main Atrium and danced up a storm. Most were 20 to 30 years of age. I performed Hot Hot Hot and the same youngsters formed a Conga Line and the older folks joined them, parading and dancing around the room and loving life. I guess this is about as young a crowd as I've performed for lately. Yes, the older crowd enjoyed it as well. I love being an entertainer - it's the best damned job I've ever had.

Cheers,

Gary

Don, pardon my lack of knowledge of the Tyros, never having owned one, but I assumed that use of those "hokey hits or yells" was optional. I thought that you could mute those out via the sliders. Does it not work that way? I would not want to be forced to use them if I did not want them On the other hand, I might have a very limited use of them as a novelty, or maybe someone else has use for them so it's good for them. Please let me know if I can mute those sounds when not wanted. It could be awkward and a disadvantage if they're not mutable. Thanks Hal (Tyros Newbie)

Ian,
The BK-9 is still for sale but in 2 months I have had NO SERIOUS offers and NO INTEREST from any forum on which it has been advertised. However, feeling like I am "stuck" with it I decided to make the best of it and what I am finding is it grows on you much like a new puppy. But what is really fascinating is how much my audiences say they like it. They tend to like the really great bass lines and the feel of the rhythm section the BK-9 produces.

Anyway, to answer your question it is still up for sale but I won't give it away.

Deane

EBAY....1,2,3

Hi Hal,
Oh I'm certain they are only on some styles or intros or pads, and certainly don't have to be used. You're right, might be useful for a novelty.
Just about any style or pad can be edited as well.
DonM

Page 47 in the manual..there is a repeat parameter..

Thanks for answering. Glad I'm not stuck with them when not wanted i.e. most of the time for me.

I couldn't find a reason why they would NOT loop. Maybe it was just speculation by someone on the forum.

Gary

Don, Gary, Fran,

Audio Multipads DO NOT LOOP - check page 67 of the Owner's manual! Page 47 (of the reference manual) it is talking about the MIDI Multipads.

In the words of Yamaha "Audio Link Muli Pads: Automatic repeat playback is not available"

Sorry about the big red ink - I want this problem fixed; not rumors going around that there is no problem!

I'm not sure if you guys remember, but when the T4 came out I found 4 bugs that made it impossible for me to use professionally. Even after creating 4 youtube videos showing the problems many people on this forum and at Yamaha denied that they were really bugs and blamed the problem on me. However, the fact is that Yamaha finally released 2 updates on the T4 - and both these updates were to fix the 4 bugs I had discovered - nothing else. So I want to be very careful that there is no denial this time around.

Thanks for your understanding.

Chony,

Yamaha has a tendency to deny bugs exist in any product they release to the public. I caught numerous bugs in my 9000 Pro and Yamaha vehemently denied they existed. Numerous phone conversations and several in person meetings at NAMM and AES yielded nothing. It wasn't until I spoke with one of Yamaha's clinicians that he actually admitted Yamaha knew the bugs existed and had no plans to rectify them. Yamaha's words to me where that I was one of only a handful of people that had ever utilized the arranger in that fashion. Therefore they saw no reason to remedy it. In fact their remedy was to discontinue the product altogether.

I'll admit my use of the 9000 Pro put it through its paces but it was marketed as a professional product intended for what I wanted it to do but it wasn't capable of doing so.

In watching the progression of the Tyros line I've yet to see Yamaha integrate features as simple as real time control of synthesizer parameters, extended sequencer tracks and editing, ability to load and play Akai and other popular sample formats, ability to easily sample, map, and integrate new drum sounds, additional polyphony, and better voice allocation.

Polyphony and voice allocation has always been a problem I've encountered on Yamaha products, especially arranger products. Even older Casio, Korg, Kurzweil, and Roland products with half the polyphony utilized far better voice allocation. I've yet to see a T5 in person but given the fact the T4 still had these issues, I doubt the T5 would be any different. Only time will tell.

I would have liked the Tyros5 to be shorter.
I wanted to trade my T4 for a T5 - 76 but this is the longest 76 note board on the market with wasted space at both ends.
The Audya manages 76 notes and yet is only the same length as a 61 note T5.

As I have limited space, I look like having to settle for the T5 - 61 instead of the 76.

I know they can't please everyone but I'm sure that most people would prefer a compact board and it doesn't stop me from being so disappointed.
Tony

oh but it absolutely must support Android devices too!! I want to plug in my damn galaxy note III into the thing, and of course all Nokia tablets and phones as well.

And if it could serve ice cold draft beer, that would be nice too

Well, about a million keyboard players have their orders in for the Tyros 5 so they sure must be making a keyboard that the mass is wanting. No keyboard is perfect and some always want much
more when a new keyboard comes out. We all find things we like
and things we don't. Lloyd

True, I agree, but the post was asking what more we would like and it's interesting to hear peoples views without in any way trying to denigrate the new T5.

I could also add more, such as being able to easily copy & paste parts from one style to another and Micro Edit the styles but I do realise that this is just my own view.

Only by expressing our wishes can anyone know what we would like.
Tony

I just saw on psr forum that there is no sound creator on T5.
Does anyone have any input on this??

If it has the onboard Sound Creator program, it may be hidden like it is with the S-950, in another area and under a new name.

Gary

And if it doesn't it would be plain stupid.Even one other Tyros line is pretty poor.It would be just one more way Yamaha pissing on their customers.
Hopefully, it's not true.

Don't you guys have the manual?

I am answering these questions and I am not a Yammy guy

"Voice set" ...page 12 in the manual

I am not home.I didn't read manual yet.I just read it on psr forum.

There was an infamous mistake in one of the harmony voices on PSR2000, the Squeaky Mouse I think. Probably was not important to most people but I had a specific use for it, and it had worked great on previous models.
Yamaha vehemently denied there was a problem. After months of my phone calls and emails, they sent an extensive workaround to me so I could use it. They still denied there was a problem though.
It's all about the dollars. If that comes at the expense of the customer, so be it.
If it weren't for Steve Deming, they wouldn't have anyone in US support that would listen to us as far as I can tell! And his hands are evidently tied by Japan in many cases.
DonM

Fran, voice set is not voice creator - they are two COMPLETELY different functions. Voice set lets you change how the voice behaves. Voice creator lets you change the voice itself.

Yes you are answering questions without being a Yammy guy, but unfortunately you have been mistaken both times so far :-)

Gary.... honestly! Do you think I would spend all this time pointing this out if I hadn't extensively researched the issue? I guess you haven't read the manual of your OWN arranger if you are unaware of this.

Mind you, I'm pretty confident you have never used the feature whatsoever (or you'd know it) so perhaps you could show the same due diligence before you try to refute something you don't know anything about?

It really astounds me. Roland and Korg users make no effort to obscure and obfuscate faults in their arrangers. We are vocal and open about missteps in the design and operation of our arrangers. Why do Yamaha users feel so defensive about admitting design missteps? Surely the sales volume leader has nothing to fear from the truth coming out? Surely they, like users of other arrangers, would LIKE these mistakes corrected, even if they alone will have to wait for another model to get the correction?!

Why are you so afraid?

If you haven't got anything to say other than glib emoticons, why are you posting, Ian..?

I have to say I'm very disapointed that the T5 doesn't a chord chord sequencer. That makes it a deal breaker for me.

Well, they just happen to make more sense than what you've been posting...and they sure are a lot briefer.

Any other questions, Dikipedia?

Ian

Deal Breaker? .....do you use the Cs that much now?

Diki, if I may suggest - I agree with you on pretty much all the points, but let's not bash other SZers here. I think we are much more likely to get the changes we need if we are respectful and answer with logic instead of emotion. I would suggest the same for any body giving any opinion about any subject.

My T2 and KMA don't have a CS. But I'd sure love to have one!

I won't complain but I will critique the new Tyros 5.

The 76 key version is a bonus but the price tags are still astronomical and obviously it will prevent the majority of the world's population from owning one. The street prices will be $5,299 and $5,499 respectively. The new brass ensembles are excellent and the string quartet is stunning. The guitar sounds are the best on the market although I'm not sure the new amp simulations add all that much to the overall sound. I'll have to play one in person before I make a final determination.

I think Yamaha missed a great opportunity to increase the polyphony but instead chose a "business as usual" strategy for what is now an outdated polyphony standard. I'm telling you straight up that today's multifaceted arrangers need more polyphony in order to prevent note drop-off and 128 polyphony is no longer sufficient in my opinion. For instance, you can easily approach the 256 note threshold if you utilize all the different features and functions such as styles, multi-pads, voices - R1, R2, R3, LH, sustain pedal, two-hand playing, and other various polyphony robbing features such as midi files playing in conjunction with everything else. Yes there are algorithms to reduce the infamous note drop-off occurrences from happening but that doesn't prevent note drop off entirely once you exceed the maximum limit. And don't tell me it's too expensive or complicated for Yamaha to double the polyphony. As an example, Casio recently released the Privia PX-5S that costs $999 (street price) and it has 256 note polyphony. I think it's really a case of laziness where Yamaha and other manufacturers simply don't want to spend the time or the money (R&D) in order to take their keyboards to the next level. That means the customer is left holding the bag when his $6,000 (after taxes) Tyros 5 drops notes in the middle of a live stage performance all because Yamaha failed to give it sufficient polyphony at the factory. Remember, I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing.

There are many things I like about the Tyros 5 besides the excellent voices. They're both fairly light weight and the new design is a real winner in my opinion. The added benefit of non-volatile flash memory is a bonus although the Tyros 4 also has that feature. Multi-recording is a brand new feature that looks intriguing and should assist in 'on the fly' composing, albeit, there seems to be little to no information regarding the use of that new feature - in .aud format. No Sampler obviously and the internal memory is also very limited. From what I understand the 512MB and/or 1GB flash memory cards are rather expensive but they are likely a must have accessory. Which amounts to a further expense for an already really expensive arranger keyboard. I hear the sheik of Arabia has pre-ordered the 61 key version. He couldn't quite afford the 76 key version unfortunately though. Just kidding.

Here is my conclusion. If Yammie had given the Tyros 5 256 note polyphony I probably would have purchased the 76 key version, all things considered. With no Sampler or micro-editing capability (and only 128 note polyphony and once again very limited internal memory - sans the flash memory card) the $6,000 price tag (after taxes) seems hard to justify. If you have a Tyros 4 I see no reason to upgrade unless you simply want the latest greatest offering from Yamaha. The 76 key version will likely spike interest and may yield additional sales for Yamaha but the extremely high cost will likely dissuade many more people than it would otherwise attract unfortunately. Although luxury goods continue to sell at a brisk rate even in a struggling world economy. But for six grand you would expect it to have a Sampler as well as micro-editing capability and more polyphony and also better B3 organs. You would also be wrong unfortunately because the Tyros 5 lacks in all of those areas. And therein lies the conundrum for a lot of people. Including me and DonM. In other words, is it really worth the $6,000 (after tax) price tag? I would like to believe it is but then reality creeps in and paints a somewhat different picture. To each his own I suppose. Most of the sounds seem to be fabulous and that alone may be worth the price of admission for a lot of people. The audio styles are a step in the right direction and the drums within the audio styles have really improved things. Hopefully the standard drum kits have also improved but the jury is still out on that one.

All in all I give the Tyros 5 two thumbs up but the ultra high price tag(s) will be a deal breaker for a lot of people. Yamaha will probably still sell a boat load of them regardless of the high price tags. Time will tell if it's truly a winner. Judging from the videos I think it will be although I've been wrong before. Again, time will tell. The sounds put it over the top but the high cost is truly a sticking point. You can't have your cake and eat it too which is a real shame. If Yamaha introduced it at, let's say, $3,995 they would have greatly increased the overall sales and more people would have had the pleasure of playing a top notch arranger keyboard. I guess that's asking too much which is truly unfortunate. Oh well.

All the best, Mike

Thanks Mike,

I think you are spot on in your even handed critique. I have the opportunity of playing a T5 next Tuesday, but as I said anything over 5K is deff a breaking point for me, which means I'll prob go for a Korg PA3X at a greatly reduced cost and more of a workstation for the money. Which will be a shame because to date I have owned all of the Tyros models, and for the life of me after selling my T4 and getting a fab Audya, I like you don't understand the baby steps on the T5, and feel that along with the real cost up many dollars, Yamaha have missed a real opportunity to get a great number of new players into the Tyros market.

Why did you not choose PA3x ( size/more features)and prefer Tyros?What made you choose Tyros despite it's problems?

Not much more I would ask for after seeing and hearing the demos at this point, how much better can it really get?
but, I'm hoping for an Anniversary BLACK T5...61 model down the road,.....although the darker grey is nice,....
Black is MY personal color preference with KB's.

Jamman, it's bc I've been using Tyros since the first one, when Korgs were still being built like tanks. Also Tyros does have many advantages over korg (and vice versa). Most importantly, I have so many styles and samples that I've programmed for Yamaha so it's hard for me to just change companies. But if Yamaha has indeed dropped the voice creator and sample editor, and I cannot import my T4 creations, I'm done.

You must not have read the replies to your own post. There are a LOT of things that could be done better.
DonM

common Don you know its all about the player NOT the Kb dont you...

You've got to be joking. Unless you're living under a rock give any great VST a listen and you'll see Tyros 5 is not in the running. When the T5 approaches the VST in sound quality, then perhaps they'll have one aspect covered. After that they can add these features.


Minimum 40GB of sound ROM. At least 10GB of that dedicated to one awesome multi sampled multi layered grand piano.

15" or larger Touch screen.

24 fully assignable audio inputs and outputs both analog and digital.

More real time knobs and sliders.

Dual XLR microphone inputs with phantom power and dedicated high end preamp.

Goosneck lamp sockets.

Dedicated multi FX for each channel of audio or MIDI recording.

Dedicated Master FX section for Mastering that does not share the same processor/motherboard.

Use of real time controls and sliders for adjusting FX parameters and recording real time manipulation of the FX.

Full synthesizer/voice editing with real time controls.

Dedicated analog filters for synthesizer section, audio recording, and Master FX.

Audio input that routes into the synth section for real time manipulation of filters, LFO, FX, and more.

192k Sampling with full editing and import file support.

Direct resampling with various sample rates.

Minimum 64 track sequencer with full editing capabilities.

Minimum 24 track audio recording with full editing features.

Ability to import and export all common audio formats.

Ability to convert any audio format to another format.

192k AD/DA. Hell even 96k would be a good start.

Ability to record, edit, and save audio files and styles.

Ability to stream audio directly from SSD or hard drive.

Expansive internal audio and MIDI mixer with intuitive use of both touch screen and real time controls.

Ability to sync to any format for scoring to film.

About the only features the Tyros 5 did implement that I saw as an improvement were 76 keys, ensemble feature, and the audio and MP3 file playback. Without dedicated editing features and looping the audio record feature is castrated making it moot. Great job Yamaha at adding what could have been a useful feature and making it worthless.

$30G to spare, then?

Haha. Yes with all that stuff out would Be $10000plus

On this forum? Are you kidding me?

chas

Surprisingly the Korg Kronos has many of the features I mentioned and costs considerably less than a T5 and about 1/3 of your $10k quote. Granted a 15" touch screen, larger ROM, and dedicated audio inputs and outputs would increase costs, but not to the point of putting it into the $10k realm. Most of the features would be software driven and as long as the main processors had the power, they could handle the additional features.

What most manufacturers offer us isn't based upon what we want or need, it's based upon what's the minimum they can offer and still have prospective clients buy the product. You and others feel the T5 is the pinnacle when it doesn't even approach what technology has to offer today. As long as you and others accept what they are offering as ok, they'll get away with baby steps in upgrades.

As I have said many times before an integrated VST Host on-board, as this gives you access to the best sounds (And effects) in the world. (That’s why they are used in Movie and Music Production)

Bill

Now, that's a truth!

One thing I didn't include in my list of issues with the T5 is the removal of the voice creator. This one is the deal breaker for me. Check PSR Tutorial to see what a revolt it is causing.

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forumIframe.html

In the reference manual it says there is custom voice creator.
Actually it wouldn't be a bad idea if they create program for pc for voices.

When one's posts that use logic and reasoning are met with glib, facile, barely disguised animosity and baiting, or merely with an emoticon (also baiting and glib), how does one eventually NOT respond in kind?

I will show respect to those who show it to me...

Damn .... I never thought i'd see two emoticons killing each other.

Emoticide? LOL

Actually i tought a lot about this...

And the answer was quite simple, i would love to see the new upcomming motif be fuly compatible with all Yamaha styles including the audio styles.

We need better drum engine.Where you can mix each element,add ambiance,overhead mics...
They should really at least get some good drum expansions for T5.

You mean like disect a kit like ROLAND "Makeup Tools"

Ian,

Thanks for the post with "I get no respect!" - made my day. Bill G

Mirza +1

I was so shocked that Yamaha didn't add drum kits to the T5. That's the first TOTL Yamaha that didn't get a drum upgrade since the PSR-8000!!!!

I'm not sure why they think ensemble voices are more of a priority than a drum kit with human personality and bleed control.

On T5 it should be even better.It's not like it's a new technology.

At least if Yamaha makes some really good drum expansions it would sell like hot cakes.Ooo and a Gypsy violin

I have an idea, if anyone that doesn't like the T5 from reading all these posts, DON'T BUY IT!

Gary

Gary, these are suggestions only.What is wrong with that.Read what is the title of this thread. I already bought T5 if you didn't know.But it's just another keyboard for me.

I agree, but the T5 is done. I serously doubt that Yamaha will make any changest to any of the T5s coming off the assembly line at this point. My best advice is for those that don't like what the see or hear, send letters to Yamaha and suggest these changes for the T6.

Gary

You wont believe what all is possible trough software updates. And some of the things asked in this thread, like a well needed chord sequencer could easily be done trough a software update.

Given that there is a nice colored screen, it would be an awesome tool.

Gary,

Why settle?

I asked Yamaha to update four things on the T4 and they did. If I hadn't campaigned, every Yamaha T4 in the world - including yours - would be bugged.

The T5 is a great keyboard (better than the T4 assuming the Voice Creator will work), but it could easily be even better with just a software update. Why do you have a problem with us campaigning for these changes??? Everyone will stand to benefit including yourself. In addition, I've been given information that if enough people want a feature Yamaha would strongly consider adding it.

I think this may be a generational issue. I see a trend: The older folk on SZ are happy to put down their money and expect no service or improvement after that. Myself, on the other hand, I'm happy to put down the money, but I would like to see constant support and updates. All the big audio brands are doing that now - offering major free software updates to their hardware products.

I just don't understand the push-back by some of the people here on SZ telling us to "not buy it". Why does it bother you that we see potential that you don't need?

I think THIS is a GENERALIZATION issue ...

Every Tyros I have owned had some sort of software upgrade issued. I can't think of one that I would call spectacular. It would be a great value to Tyros owners to know they will get some REAL upgrades and a few freebies for a few years. Some of the music software I run on my PC offer lifetime upgrades and lots of free sound libraries. -charley

[/quote]Gary,Why settle?
I just don't understand the push-back by some of the people here on SZ telling us to "not buy it". Why does it bother you that we see potential that you don't need? [/quote]

jealousy & price..

Misery loves company

Wow guys.Where do you find someone says don't buy a keyboard.
And where do you see jealousy. With this kind of attitude we would still be hanging of the trees eating bananas.

I don't think there is an issue if jealousy at all. But I've encountered many examples over the past week or two that when someone suggests a feature request someone else comes back and says "if you don't like it, don't buy it!"

This is not about liking it OR buying it. It's about creating a better performance experience.

That said, I apologize about the generalization above - I didnt mean it that way.

I seriously doubt few if any are jealous of the Tyros 5. Considering my arranger has these features the Tyros 5 lacks, Tyros 5 owners are the ones who would be jealous.

My arranger doesn't force me to choose between 61 or 76 keys, I have both. Two great feeling semi weighted keybeds with aftertouch.

My arrangers built in audio system rivals those by any other manufacturer. No need for me to strap on cheap speakers like those the Tyros 5 uses.

I'm not stuck with some mediocre over compressed drum kits either. I can sample new sounds, load samples from other manufacturers, and mix, edit, and map sounds wherever I want.

I can import audio files, MP3, MP4, AIFF, Wave, even Video and use them all as I see fit.

My arranger has audio drum styles and has had them for 10+ years.

If any factory sound doesn't suit my need, I can edit it, process it, filter it, and manipulate it to suit my needs.

If I want to go beyond what any other arranger can do, I can load in multiple VST's and play them back as if they are native to my arranger. Try as it might, the Tyros 5 isn't in the same league as a high end VST.

My arranger has a large touch screen in addition to numerous real time knobs and sliders that are fully programmable.

My arranger has a 25 note pedal board that also has toe pistons and a swell pedal. All programmable I might add.

I've got the ability to split, stack, or setup numerous sounds all at once on any of the keyboards my arranger has be it upper, lower, or the pedal board.

My polyphony isn't limited by what the manufacturer forces me to have, it varies based upon my processor speed. When using VST's in conjunction with my factory sounds, my polyphony is well into the hundreds.

The voice allocation scheme used by my arranger doesn't cut notes off like Yamaha products do. In fact, unless I stack some insane number of sounds together, for example 4 stacked on top, 4 stacked on bottom, three on the pedal board, then play some monsterous chords at once, you wont ever hear a hiccup or drop out at all.

My arranger does multitrack audio recording, multitrack sequencing, synthesis, sampling, direct disk playback, wavetable, FM, analog modeling, multi FX, and more.

My arranger doesn't use some cheap tiny sliders to mimic a drawbar, I actually have real drawbars for both upper and lower keyboards.

My arranger has multiple audio inputs and outputs in addition to two dedicated microphone inputs.

These features just scratch the surface of what my arranger can do. Unlike many who toss each of their older arrangers to the wayside to buy the "new" model, my arranger has stayed up to date with software and hardware changes.

Ian after playing his Yamaha Tyros4...

I do like that Yamaha has implemented the Ensemble feature although it's nothing new except to Yamaha. VST's have done this for many years. It adds realism to string and horn sections because it puts them in their appropriate placement and stereo spectrum just like in a real orchestra. I didn't notice any large ensembles used, just quartets which I hope aren't the only available programs. A nice 40 piece or larger orchestra would be fantastic.

Same goes for the audio styles. It would have been a great addition had the feature not been castrated. Why not allow users to record, loop, edit, and playback their own audio styles? Yamaha simply wants to force users to buy styles only from Yamaha. I get that many users will never delve into recording their own audio styles, but for others like Diki, Chony, and myself who learn the ins and outs of our gear, it's a major disappointment.

No Voice Creator is just insane. I'm certain a subsequent software update will allow this feature but not having it right out of the gate was a major oversight.

After listening to most every T5 demo available on high end studio monitors, the differences between the T4 and T5 aren't earth shattering. What I can hear are better AD/DA's on the T5 and improved FX modeling programs. This in and of itself gives the T5 an edge over a T4 albeit slight. I'm certain with some tweaking I could get a T4 to sound nearly identical to a T5. What it really comes down to is are the new features enough to warrant a T4 user upgrading. That's a tough call.

For me a 76 note keyboard is a must so for that feature alone I'd upgrade from a T4 to a T5 if I were so inclined. I find it interesting most of the T5 demos shown are from a T5-76. Offering a 76 note option was very smart on Yamaha's part.

The T5 audio styles to me are a major disappointment because they don't sound very open. Cymbals and hi hats lack clarity and don't breathe. The playing realism is great, I just can't stand the way they were recorded. When I track real drums if I can't hear cymbals ring out and decay naturally, I'm not doing the recording justice. Yamaha clearly limited the bandwidth and compressed the hell out of the audio styles to minimize the file size. A huge mistake IMO. Had they recorded these at 24/96 or 24/48 and not limited their frequency response, the results would be spectacular. As it stands now, other than the realism of them being performed by real players, the sounds themselves are meh! Much better than the stock MIDI styles and mediocre drum sounds because of the playing realism, but still meh.

This is probably very interesting to everyone, but we all know the proof is really in the hearing, and even more importantly, the seeing and hearing.

Please Ensnareyou...please can you provide a YouTube (or otherwise) demo of the instrument you are boasting about, or even better, a demo of you playing your arranger and highlighting the features you are so proud of, to everyone.

Otherwise, until we actually hear and see this allegedly remarkable instrument, all we have is your humble opinion to go by, and I'm afraid all that seems to be doing is convincing yourself.

Lastly, an instrument having all the averred features your arranger has to offer, must be quite popular, especially to pros and/or advanced players...what kind of price are we looking at?

Ian the Curious